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Store refused gun sale because of name, race, Charlotte couple says(NC)
wbtv.com ^ | 25 February, 2012 | Brad Hyatt

Posted on 02/26/2012 5:56:52 AM PST by marktwain

CHARLOTTE, NC (WBTV) - A Charlotte couple says Dick's Sporting Goods refused to sell them a gun because of their last name and race.

Bernard and Francine Miller tell us they went to the store on W. T. Harris Boulevard looking for a rifle because they spotted a coyote in their yard.

After forty minutes of shopping and working with the sales agent, they settled on the one that fit their price range. A 22-rifle that cost just over $200.

Bernard was then asked to fill out paperwork. But the couple says after filling out the paperwork, a salesperson refused to sell them the rifle.

"I get ready to hand him the papers back, that's when he come out with a silly grin on his face talking about how he couldn't sell me the rif... how HE wasn't going to sell me the rifle," Miller told WTBV. "HE MADE the decision! He said HE MADE the decision not to sell me a rifle."

-----------------------cut----------------------

We asked the company for a response to this story but they had no comment. But we did hear that audio tape Francine Miller says she recorded in the store.

In it, the manager said this wasn't a prejudiced act, rather, that it's a federal offense to sell someone a gun which they believe is intended for someone else.

(Excerpt) Read more at wbtv.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; nc; straw
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Gun shops are in a double bind. If they refuse a sale, they are accused of racism. If they make a sale, they can be charged with a "straw purchase" setup by bloomberg or "fast and furious" type "stings".
1 posted on 02/26/2012 5:56:56 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Yep, and that’s not a mistake either.


2 posted on 02/26/2012 5:59:38 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: marktwain

But we did hear that audio tape Francine Miller says she recorded in the store. .............................. Sounds like a set up went bad?


3 posted on 02/26/2012 6:00:14 AM PST by Bringbackthedraft ( WHO WE ELECT AS PRESIDENT IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS WHO THEY APPOINT.)
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To: marktwain

Not enough facts in excerpt but salesperson did do something wrong - offering the .22 as appropriate for the coyote. Not really something an ethical person would do from a hunter’s perspective.


4 posted on 02/26/2012 6:00:17 AM PST by School of Rational Thought
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To: marktwain
We asked the company for a response to this story but they had no comment. But we did hear that audio tape Francine Miller says she recorded in the store.

That's odd if you ask me.

Personally I think any business should be able to refuse service to ANYONE for ANY REASON as long as it doesn't endanger a life.
5 posted on 02/26/2012 6:03:21 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: marktwain

Why would the salesman work with them for 40 minutes if he wasn’t going to sell them a gun only based on their race? An obvious questions that the libtard reporter doesn’t bother to ask.


6 posted on 02/26/2012 6:04:24 AM PST by rbg81 (scillian's)
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To: marktwain

I watched one of ‘Holders people’ do the shopping for a firearm in my local gunstore....and then make his ho buy it because he was a convicted felon....

I did not stay in the store long enough to find out if the salesman made the sale or not...

I would NOT have made that sale....


7 posted on 02/26/2012 6:04:42 AM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: marktwain
Store refused gun sale because of name, race...

I'm sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Holder, but I just don't feel safe selling you a gun.

8 posted on 02/26/2012 6:06:38 AM PST by TruthShallSetYouFree (How bad would an Obama II administration be, without the constraints of re-election?)
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To: rbg81

Why would these people be recording their conversation?

Were they looking to cause an incident?


9 posted on 02/26/2012 6:08:33 AM PST by Mr. K (Were the Soviet-Era propogandists as gleefully willing as our Lame-stream Media?)
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To: cripplecreek

Normally, how many people RECORD conversations in stores? How many would call the media and cry racism? Something smells here and it’s not coyote poop.


10 posted on 02/26/2012 6:09:16 AM PST by bigbob
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To: marktwain

Agree with the store clerk’s decision in this case. If it ever gets out, I’m sure there will be some inappropriate comments on the tape that justify the clerk’s action. Given the level of perceived (thanks to our out-of-control legal system) liability associated with the sale of a firearm, erring on the side of caution is the right thing to do.


11 posted on 02/26/2012 6:11:02 AM PST by Boomer One
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To: marktwain

You don’t buy a 22 rifle to shoot coyotes in your back yard. You could end up shooting your neighbor. A shotgun would be the appropriate tool. They were either lying or they were idiots.

I suspect that since they recorded the transaction they were shopping for a lawsuit.


12 posted on 02/26/2012 6:11:42 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: School of Rational Thought
Not enough facts in excerpt but salesperson did do something wrong - offering the .22 as appropriate for the coyote. Not really something an ethical person would do from a hunter’s perspective.

it is not up to the salesman to steer the sale when the buyer has a fixed dollar amount or wants a particular gun for whatever reason.

I have walked out of gun stores when I told the salesman I want a ‘Ruger such and such’ and he asked me...’well why the hell would you want to buy a ‘Ruger such and such’ when we have these ‘Taurus such and suchs’ cheaper and are better guns?...'

I walked into the store around the corner and got the gun I asked for in the first place....seeing as how I was not asking the salesman's opinion but buying a specific firearm....I find there are a considerable % of gun sales personnel who are obnoxious and overly opinionated, like that.....

13 posted on 02/26/2012 6:13:44 AM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: marktwain

Based on the story - the store messed up. I’m disappointed at the rationalizations on this thread. And refusing service to anyone for any reason? That issue has long since been settled. My dad lost his job as manager of the Houston bus terminal because he integrated the building and the restaurant in it in the late 50s.


14 posted on 02/26/2012 6:14:09 AM PST by Mercat
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To: marktwain

It sounds as if they spent 40 minutes and then ended with a statement that made it clear (even if unintentionally) that they were purshasing the rifle for someone else.

The “silly grin” sounds like an employee who is pretty sure he is the the subject of a heavy handed ATF sting.


15 posted on 02/26/2012 6:19:34 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: bigbob
We asked the company for a response to this story but they had no comment. But we did hear that audio tape Francine Miller says she recorded in the store.

The civil rights era keeps on giving. This sounds like an attempt at a set up.

True free market capitalism could fix this in a hurry. In an honest world if the owner didn't want to sell to blacks he could put up a sign that says so and a smart entrepreneur could open a store that does serve blacks and if he wants he could advertize that he only sells to blacks.

I personally would go to the store that sells to everyone because I just don't like racists.
16 posted on 02/26/2012 6:20:02 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Mercat; All

“And refusing service to anyone for any reason? That issue has long since been settled.”

As I stated, gun stores can get in a lot of trouble for *not* refusing service. People have been jailed and lost their livelihood.

http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=603:reese-family-update&catid=19:the-knox-update&Itemid=144

“In contrast, a family in New Mexico has languished in jail for almost six months. They have been denied bail, their assets have been seized, and threatened with civil forfeiture. They have yet to be convicted of anything.”


17 posted on 02/26/2012 6:22:07 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Mercat

I am a gunsmith, FFL holder and gunstore owner. The store did EXACTLY what the BATFE instructs us to do. In any case that there is ANY doubt or the slightest possibility that it is a straw purchase then we are to err on the side of caution and NOT complete the sale. Period.
Your opinion is exactly that, and uninformed.


18 posted on 02/26/2012 6:29:00 AM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: Mercat
The government should not discriminate. Private individuals (inclusive of the businesses they own) have a right (even if currently unrecognized) to serve or not serve who they wish for any reason they wish, as long as it's a passive act. Businesses are not publicly owned. If you have not right to restrict entry to your property for any reason you wish, you have no propery rights. How would like the current laws to apply to your home?

That issue was set down in 1776, but clearly not settled.

Per this couple, having an FFL obligates the holder (or agent thereof) to prohibit straw purchases. Anything this couple said to indicate that it was a straw purchase (even wife buying for husband) would have put the seller in legal jeopardy, if they completed the sale. Spousel straw purchases are tricky, as a spouse (or any person) can purcase a firearm as a present, so there must be an indication of circumventing a background check, such as, "Hey, we need to put this through on my wife's name, if you know what I mean."

19 posted on 02/26/2012 6:29:05 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: marktwain

Maybe the address that was given could not possibly have coyotes in the back yard. He may bave determined the couple was being deceitful and so he terminated the sell.


20 posted on 02/26/2012 6:29:30 AM PST by Tai_Chung
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To: Mercat

“Bernard Miller says he was told that’s because another African-American man with the last name Miller, but a different first name, had tried to buy the same gun at a Dick’s Sporting Goods store in Matthews and been denied.”


21 posted on 02/26/2012 6:32:21 AM PST by free me (heartless=no humanity)
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To: marktwain

*If* this couple are as they claim (and I say so reservedly from what I’ve seen), they’ve now painted a huge “I’m trouble” sign on themselves. They’ve shown that they go around anticipating (deliberately?!) trouble. They’ve proven that their idea of dispute resolution is very public displays of emotion-based allegations - including the race card.

I wouldn’t sell them a picture of a firearm, and I doubt anyone else will now, either.


22 posted on 02/26/2012 6:33:52 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: marktwain
...that's when he come out with a silly grin on his face...

Looks like the gun stores might have their own means of knowing what was going down and the Millers are "known".
They may be on the "Top Ten" list of people not to sell weapons to.

Recording runs both ways (security cameras) and "shopping around" don't mean what it used ta mean.

23 posted on 02/26/2012 6:34:28 AM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Mr. K

Yeah, I wondered about that too. Of course, cell phones have lots of capabilities these daze. Sounds like they only started recording after they got the news they were turned down and started speaking to the manager. It would unquestionably be a setup if they had recorded the whole visit.


24 posted on 02/26/2012 6:34:33 AM PST by rbg81 (scillian's)
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To: SampleMan
That issue was set down in 1776, but clearly not settled.

Obviously. Michigan bar and restaurant owners can't refuse service to non smokers but are required by law to ban smoking in their establishments. Seems to me that non smoking bars would have been doing a booming business if there had been a demand for it.

People seem to be doing a real good job of confusing freedom with restriction.
25 posted on 02/26/2012 6:35:18 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: marktwain

Bernard and Francine Miller What’s so unusual about their name? I see nothing that would lead me to believe their name was a reason for charges of discrimination.


26 posted on 02/26/2012 6:40:17 AM PST by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: cripplecreek

But...but...but...that would violate the Civil Righrs Act /s


27 posted on 02/26/2012 6:52:40 AM PST by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: School of Rational Thought

I can kill any coyote on Earth with a good .22 rifle loaded with the high velocity ammo, nothing heavier is needed unless you are shooting at long range which is not going to happen when the coyote is in your yard. My older brother once told me that .22LR was too small to use on feral dogs that were roaming the rural area where we grew up but then he killed one of those dogs at at around 100 yards with a .22LR revolver!

The same brother had a medium size dog (about forty pounds) that chased a neighbor’s cattle and got shot with a .270 deer rifle, the bullet passed just beneath the spine at about the last rib. The dog survived and lived for years afterward, the only lasting effect was that it turned from yellow to white haired and stopped chasing cattle.


28 posted on 02/26/2012 6:53:59 AM PST by RipSawyer
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To: marktwain

Here is the reason given, from the article “Bernard Miller says he was told that’s because another African-American man with the last name Miller, but a different first name, had tried to buy the same gun at a Dick’s Sporting Goods store in Matthews and been denied.”

This seems pretty silly in a variety of ways. First of all Miller is a very common name. Secondly if I want to be sneaky and get someone to buy a gun for me am I going to pick somebody with the same last name as mine? I could see if the two men had the exact same name you might well think they were the same guy, but I don’t see why you’d think these 2 have anything to do with each other.


29 posted on 02/26/2012 6:54:50 AM PST by jocon307
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To: marktwain

They wouldn’t sell me a rifle. I’m black. Ergo, they wouldn’t sell me a rifle because I’m black. Perfect, unassailable logic.


30 posted on 02/26/2012 6:55:13 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: chesley

The civil rights act violates the rights of all Americans.


31 posted on 02/26/2012 6:55:39 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: rbg81

He probably from Nantucket Island and did not notice their race for the first 40 minutes?


32 posted on 02/26/2012 7:01:02 AM PST by BilLies ( It's Black History Month..Don't forget the 330,000 White Northerners who died 1861-5 to Free Slaves)
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To: free me
So... any black person with the last name of "Miller" can't buy .22 rifles at Dick's Sporting Goods.

Got it.

33 posted on 02/26/2012 7:04:13 AM PST by lwd
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To: ExpatGator

That I didnt know. But it makes sense. If it looks like it is going to blow up on your later, a person would be a idiot to sell a gun if it even has the slightest risk of going south.


34 posted on 02/26/2012 7:04:18 AM PST by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: cripplecreek
Personally I think any business should be able to refuse service to ANYONE for ANY REASON as long as it doesn't endanger a life.

I whole heartedly agree with that statement.

35 posted on 02/26/2012 7:07:51 AM PST by rightly_dividing (You cannot put a gun rack in a Volt !)
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To: marktwain

What kind of paperwork is necessary to purchase a .22 rifle? Last time I bought one at WalMart (Mississippi), I picked it out and paid for it, then left with it.


36 posted on 02/26/2012 7:08:04 AM PST by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: kalee
Miller What’s so unusual about their name?

Miller us a common AMISH name. ;-)

37 posted on 02/26/2012 7:08:56 AM PST by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Mr. K

If the clerk saw the recording item, he could refuse out of fear of being stuck in jail as several other gun sellers are under Fast and Furious.


38 posted on 02/26/2012 7:09:16 AM PST by tbw2
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To: Vaquero
I find there are a considerable % of gun sales personnel who are obnoxious and overly opinionated....

Yeah, and those are the just the people who post on FR gun threads../sarc

39 posted on 02/26/2012 7:10:28 AM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: cripplecreek
The civil rights act violates the rights of all Americans

worth repeating

40 posted on 02/26/2012 7:13:50 AM PST by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: TruthShallSetYouFree
I'm sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Holder, but I just don't feel safe selling you a gun.

Millions of Mexicans are safer because of your decision! Thank you!

41 posted on 02/26/2012 7:19:06 AM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: trebb
That must have been before 1999, when 4473s became necessary for long guns. Now *all* FFL sales are registered, what with name, address, and DL info on the buyer, as well as make, model, and serial number of the gun being bought.
42 posted on 02/26/2012 7:19:46 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: kalee
What's unusual? Does this guy look like a "Bernard Miller" to you? Obviously fake.


43 posted on 02/26/2012 7:20:29 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in religion -Sup. Chalmers)
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To: marktwain

This is the first time that I’ve seen the media upset because someone COULDN’T buy a gun.


44 posted on 02/26/2012 7:21:41 AM PST by BobL (I don't care about his past - Santorum will BRING THE FIGHT to Obama)
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To: marktwain

where i live, if you need a gun, just start a rumor and youll get one...theyll come to you if youve got the cash


45 posted on 02/26/2012 7:21:51 AM PST by AnTiw1
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To: marktwain

Right, I carry a tape recorder everywhere I go.....just in case.

Recording the sale alone smells setup and the clerk probably checked the residence and found it to be a high rise or a parking lot.

The clerk did the right thing.


46 posted on 02/26/2012 7:23:25 AM PST by TribalPrincess2U (NOT VOTING gets 0bamao re-elected. 0bamao's ANTI-TRUTH & SPIN TEAM is again on the move.)
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To: Mercat

And refusing service to anyone for any reason? That issue has long since been settled.”

It isn’t settled. The law requires you to refuse service in various cases. Moreover, no one has a legitimate right to receive service, whether its you, me, or one of Holder’s people.


47 posted on 02/26/2012 7:24:00 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: cripplecreek
The civil rights act violates the rights of all Americans.

Probably the most falsely named law in a country known for laws with false names.

48 posted on 02/26/2012 7:27:19 AM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: cripplecreek

Or maybe the name originally included “Infringement and destruction of”, but due to typo or space limitations that part got deleted.


49 posted on 02/26/2012 7:28:34 AM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Still Thinking

The civil rights act has been a creeping disaster ever since it was implemented. Its done nothing but allow an ever growing list of group rights to overrun the rights of the individual.

Probably the single biggest hammer in the socialist toolbox.


50 posted on 02/26/2012 7:34:48 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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