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Man who brought gun to school voting precinct frustrated after police called(MI)
mlive.com ^ | 28 February, 2012 | Heidi Fenton

Posted on 02/29/2012 12:22:59 PM PST by marktwain

GRAND RAPIDS — Nicholas Looman says he carries a gun on a regular basis to exercise his rights as a licensed firearms holder.

He’s carried a pistol while grocery shopping, attending public events and while going about other parts of his daily routine. Looman believes he’s well-versed in the state’s right-to-carry laws.

So when he was stopped outside a voting precinct after casting his ballot in Tuesday’s primary election, Looman, 25, said he was frustrated, more than anything, with what he believes is a lack of understanding over what the laws are.

“I don’t want to be a problem. I don’t want to win a lawsuit, but I think there needs to be justice,” said Looman on Tuesday evening, hours after he was told to leave Aberdeen Elementary following a discussion with police. “I would like a public apology.”

Looman said he had already cast his ballot at the Grand Rapids elementary school and was headed out the door Tuesday when a school staff member stopped him and called his pistol into question. The weapon was holstered, in clear view, at his waist, Looman said.

State law prohibits carrying a concealed weapon on school property, Looman said, but his weapon was clearly visible. And he believes he had every right to bring it along to vote.

Looman said Grand Rapids Public Schools staff banned him from school property until further notice.

District Spokesman John Helmholdt said the state school code states that weapons of any kind are not allowed on school property.

He was told Looman came into the school through an entry designated for voters, then after voting, walked into the main portion of the school with a weapon clearly visible. He was stopped at that point by a school worker.

Helmholdt said visitors should know not to bring a weapon into a school.

“Our number one issue is school safety,” he said. “Common sense tells you don’t bring a gun into a school.”

But Looman says he believes his rights as a voter were violated on Tuesday when school staff and authorities confronted him at a polling location. He’s taking a stand in hopes authorities will take a closer look at what the laws are.

“It became a civil liberties infraction because it was a voting day, and that’s disappointing,” he said. “I just wanted to go home to have lunch.”


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Politics/Elections; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: banglist; mi; opencarry; school
I do not know the Michigan laws well enough to say if is likely to win. I hope that he has a good attorney.
1 posted on 02/29/2012 12:23:08 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

‘gun free’ school zone violation is a Federal beef.


2 posted on 02/29/2012 12:27:27 PM PST by RitchieAprile
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To: marktwain

From Chip Hoyboer in the comments:

“The consensus of whether or not what this man did was legal or not seems to be that it was indeed legal, and I am not qualified enough in the specifics of gun laws to refute anything that has been sited, so I will take the consensus to be true. However, regardless of the legality, I find the ramifications of this act potentially disturbing. As a school teacher, how does one now handle a situation like this? Do I just allow a individual with a gun to stroll through our hallways because he or she has a permit? Does this act change the strategies of those that intend to do harm in a school? Get a permit, have a gun in plain site, walk into the school because there is no legal reason for you not to do this, and then open fire? As a parent, should I feel comfortable with my children being in a school that has a stranger walking the hallways with a unconcealed firearm? As adults we are so quick to site our individual rights of freedom of speech, the right to bear arms, freedom of expression, etc., we forget another cornerstone upon which our country was founded on, and that is our citizens responsibility to the common good. I am disappointed that very little has been mentioned here on the hundreds of children that were involved in this incident. I think we have lost focus on the message this acts sends to the students in a school that this happens to. I support the right of our citizenry to bear arms legally, but I also feel that a citizen who shows such a lack of judgement, responsibility, and common sense to be unworthy of licensing for such a right.”


3 posted on 02/29/2012 12:27:51 PM PST by marktwain
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To: Nicholas

"I just wanted to go home to have lunch"

From your lips to God's ears.


4 posted on 02/29/2012 12:27:57 PM PST by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: marktwain

In Iowa, you can’t carry any weapon into a school and you can’t bring a gun into a voting place. No if’s, and’s or butt’s.

I believe this guy may be saying goodbye to his right to carry after this.


5 posted on 02/29/2012 12:29:34 PM PST by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: marktwain

Were the police armed when they arrived at the school? If so, how does that not violate the “school code”?

I’m all for individuals controlling their own property rules, but this is public property.


6 posted on 02/29/2012 12:29:45 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Jack Burton007

It was especially idiotic to do this on the day of a school shooting in a neighboring state. I can’t imagine why he felt this display was necessary.


7 posted on 02/29/2012 12:35:36 PM PST by stormer
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To: marktwain
Do I just allow a individual with a gun to stroll through our hallways because he or she has a permit?

I wonder how Chip handles the police when they walk down the hall at his school?

8 posted on 02/29/2012 12:36:44 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: marktwain
I support the right of our citizenry to bear arms legally, but I also feel that a citizen who shows such a lack of judgement, responsibility, and common sense to be unworthy of licensing for such a right.”

That's the problem with "teachers" (this person claimed to be one) today: Too much "feeling" and not enough "thinking." I would agree with this person that carrying into a school wasn't necessarily good judgement, but poor enough to deny this guy the right to carry anywhere at all? Phhhsh. I hope this person is kept as far away from the levers of power as possible. No wonder our kids are stupid.

9 posted on 02/29/2012 12:42:46 PM PST by Cyber Liberty ("If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." --Winston Churchill)
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To: stormer

Sometimes people on our side do some of the dumbest things.

My step brother just got his carry permit a year ago when the laws were relaxed. I’ve been a CCW permit holder for 31 years. He has been for 1 year. He carries open because he likes how people react to him and his wife carrying their guns where everyone can see them.

I told him, you lose the element of surprise that way. He believes that he keeps from being a victim because he shows them he is armed. I asked him if he plays poker and if so does he show everyone at the card table his hand as he plays? To me, carrying open is like playing poker with your cards exposed. It tips your hand to those who are betting against you.

I showed him and his wife how easy it is to use their guns against them by walking up behind her and pulling her gun from her holster. I gave it back and said, you brought the weapon to me that I could use to take you both out. He looked very shocked but not enough to stop doing this. Now he is one of the people who is getting stores and businesses to post signs that say “No Guns Allowed”.

Sometimes those we think are on our side do us the most harm.


10 posted on 02/29/2012 12:45:08 PM PST by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: marktwain

I know this guy voted, but was retaliated against for voting and how many others in the gun toting public didn’t vote because they feared intimidation.

I wonder if by placing a polling place in a school where the “right to carry” is presumably denied creates a violation of his rights under the voting act of 1965?

After all one is protected from discrimination because of other Constitutionally protected conditions, i.e. race, color, creed, national origin, and religion. Well the Second Amendment provides protection for the gun carrying class. Isn’t it as good as the first?

Where’s the ACLU?


11 posted on 02/29/2012 12:50:07 PM PST by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: marktwain
Reading between the lines of this truly rotten news article (what do they teach in J-school these days?), it seems that he left the boundaries of the polling place. A polling place located inside of a school doesn't encompass the whole building.

Even if he can claim a right to enter the polling place so armed (and I don't profess to be knowledgable in the Michigan law) I doubt that right then extends to rest of the building. If he was in an area where voters aren't privileged to enter, then he likely IS in violation.

All in all, he forced a stupid confrontation in order to become a test case. I don't think that it is wise, and I think it hurts the whole 2nd Amendment effort by giving the opposition an argument that the lay person would see as a reason to be distrustful of armed citizens.

12 posted on 02/29/2012 1:15:02 PM PST by SargeK
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To: RitchieAprile
‘gun free’ school zone violation is a Federal beef.

So is trying to prevent someone from voting:
18 USC § 245 - Federally protected activities
(b) Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, by force or threat of force willfully injures, intimidates or interferes with, or attempts to injure, intimidate or interfere with—
    (1) any person because he is or has been, or in order to intimidate such person or any other person or any class of persons from—
        (A) voting or qualifying to vote, qualifying or campaigning as a candidate for elective office, or qualifying or acting as a poll watcher, or any legally authorized election official, in any primary, special, or general election;

13 posted on 02/29/2012 1:16:41 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: marktwain
I don't know about his state, but here in West Virginia school is cancelled for students on election days. If that is the case there shouldn't have been a question about his right to carry.

As a secondary issue, if the argument is that someone who is legally carrying a weapon may shoot children then what is to stop that same person from shooting children at a ball game, ice skating rink, shopping mall, etc. If he's a licensed carrier, I would assume that he has had some basic screening to determine that he has no criminal record or mental issues. This basic argument is a stepping stone for not allowing anyone to ever carry a weapon, aka "A slippery slope".

14 posted on 02/29/2012 1:17:36 PM PST by Retired COB (Still mad about Campaign Finance Reform)
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To: Jack Burton007

That’s a violation of federal law: See 18 USC § 245 - Federally protected activities Specifically section b.1.A


15 posted on 02/29/2012 1:18:55 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: marktwain
School "codes" do not trump individual Rights.

Part of that whole "laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding" clause in that Constitution thingie...

16 posted on 02/29/2012 1:19:14 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: stormer

>It was especially idiotic to do this on the day of a school shooting in a neighboring state. I can’t imagine why he felt this display was necessary.

So, you would disparage another of rights because it’s ‘insensitive’?


17 posted on 02/29/2012 1:20:19 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: marktwain
A school teacher wrote that? Complete with typos and grammatical errors?

Oh boy...

18 posted on 02/29/2012 1:20:57 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: stormer
Um... Because it's his RIGHT to do so? Especially with random nuts running around shooting people, as you so adroitly pointed out...

Kinda hard to stop an active shooter if you need to run back out to your car to retrieve your firearm.

19 posted on 02/29/2012 1:22:19 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: marktwain

At least he got to vote first.


20 posted on 02/29/2012 1:25:41 PM PST by NEMDF
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To: Jack Burton007
Wow... We'd never thought of that before. Thanks!

Now we can justify having our police forces and armed military folks carry ONLY concealed as we'd never want the bad guys to get the drop on them.

After all, if you LOOK weak and an easy mark, the bad guys would leave you alone and target the guy who looks like a threat...

Do I really need to add /sarcasm?

21 posted on 02/29/2012 1:26:25 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: marktwain
...to exercise his rights as a licensed firearms holder.
22 posted on 02/29/2012 1:40:18 PM PST by real saxophonist (The fact that you play tuba doesn't make you any less lethal. -USMC bandsman in Iraq)
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To: Dead Corpse

LOL. I see your point.

But my point is that as a private citizen, it’s a better idea to not tip your hand to the criminals or they will use it against you.

When I carry concealed I know that I have the element of surprise. If I carry open then they just have to get the drop on me by shooting me first. They could even say it’s justified and some liberal judge would probably let them off for “defending” themselves against me. I could see that happening.

I would rather have the deck stacked in my favor than give one inch of an edge to the guy who is wanting my money or my life.

You deal with it as you see fit. I’ll do the same.


23 posted on 02/29/2012 2:03:41 PM PST by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: Jack Burton007
These arguments have been done to death over the last ten years or so...

It should be an individual choice. "Keep and bear arms".

I'd prefer to be able to do both as I see fit without having to worry about running afoul of some over zealous gendarme...

24 posted on 02/29/2012 2:18:21 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Dead Corpse

I agree.

Right now in Iowa, we are working on taking back our 2nd amendment rights.

In fact, the libs who hate guns ran from the job this morning due to the pro-gun votes coming to the floor.

They really are flee-baggers.


25 posted on 02/29/2012 2:23:44 PM PST by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: stormer

Yet the ban on guns at schools failed to stop that school shooting. Irony is amazing sometimes.


26 posted on 02/29/2012 2:32:14 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: marktwain
...state school code states that weapons of any kind are not allowed on school property.

What is "state school code"?

27 posted on 02/29/2012 2:51:38 PM PST by School of Rational Thought
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To: marktwain

In Texas it is illegal to carry a firearm into voting precinct regardless of whether one has a concealed carry permit. The only people allowed to carry firearms in a voting location are law enforcement.


28 posted on 02/29/2012 3:22:06 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: marktwain

In Texas it is illegal to carry a firearm into voting precinct regardless of whether one has a concealed carry permit. The only people allowed to carry firearms in a voting location are law enforcement.


29 posted on 02/29/2012 3:22:06 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: Jack Burton007
I told him, you lose the element of surprise that way.

One who carries openly is probably less likely to be confronted by a criminal than one who carries concealed, because many potential attackers will decide that it's silly to attack when they know they'll encounter armed resistance, when they could simply wait and attack (hopefully) unarmed people after the armed people leave. The person who carries openly may well be at a disadvantage if a criminal decides to attack anyway, but the odds of that occurring may be slight compared with the odds of deterring the attack.

Either course of action could be right or wrong, depending upon the situation.

30 posted on 02/29/2012 9:44:44 PM PST by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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To: supercat

What is wrong with guns in schools?

Works in Israel, Utah and parts of Texas.

This guy made his little part of America safer by being armed.


31 posted on 03/01/2012 7:26:33 AM PST by Geoffrey
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To: supercat
Either course of action could be right or wrong, depending upon the situation.

I will go you one further: Occasionally (but not always), ANY course of action could be right, wrong, or indifferent, depending on the situation, or not. Maybe. The results may be unpredictable, or entirely predictable. Or somewhere in between. Usually.

32 posted on 03/01/2012 7:34:42 AM PST by Lazamataz (If unemployment helps the economy, like the W.H. says, then CONTRACTING CANCER MAKES YOU HEALTHIER!)
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To: marktwain
unworthy of licensing for such a right

Un-freaking-believable. I think "Chip Hoyboer" is "unworthy of licensing" for his 1st Amendment Rights. Or his Fifth. Or his Fourth. Let's just go take all of good ol' Chip's stuff, and say, "Sorry dude, you weren't 'licensed for such a right."

There is going to be a civil war. Count on it.

33 posted on 03/01/2012 12:08:01 PM PST by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: Jack Burton007

Show me one instance of an OC person having their gun taken as you talk about. Simply. Does. Not. Happen.

Criminals look for easy marks, not for people who show they will defend themselves to the death and are prepared to do so.

FWIW, I OC.


34 posted on 03/01/2012 4:33:10 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I did it by walking up behind my sister in law, I grabbed her pistol (she uses a low slung cheap swat style holster) and I yanked it out of the holster and had possession of it.

If you’ve ever taken a weapons retention class they show you that this can happen and does. There are numerous times when cops are killed with their own weapons due to this, and they have better holsters than my SIL or Step Brother do.

If you don’t think that criminals will go after armed people then you’re not reading the news. They go after armed police all the time. My 3 nephews are police and they have dealt with this more than once. It’s not as rare as you make it sound.


35 posted on 03/02/2012 10:15:23 AM PST by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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