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To: Baynative

This is not Jeff Head’s territory. It is mine. This is southwest of the Klamath Falls area. The area below the dams is not heavily farmed. This is the mid-Klamath. In fact, some of the very Klamath Project farmers who were affected by the water turn off at the head gates are now in favor of dam removal. They were quite willing to stab my people in the back to trade for gains in their water and electricity price needs.

The people of the mid Klamath include the retirees and communities who live around the reservoirs behind the dams. They include resort owners and river folk who will be flooded out by uncontrolable flooding. They include fishing guides, miners, loggers and some small family farms that have been handed down since the 1850s.

Dam removal will damage infrastructure (roads, bridges,) kill fish and possibly all living things in the river for several years. (And it will walk away from any liability, leaving locals holding the bag.) It will mess up the City of Yreka’s water supply. It will leave raw stinking mudflats for the people around the reservoirs that will be a seedbed for noxious weeds. It will destroy one of the finest white water rafting areas in the US. It will remove the settling effects of the reservoirs on nutrients and organics (algae) and create a hot nutrient rich soup that will be plugged with algae. It will remove the power of the reservoirs to act as settling ponds for the putrid water that comes in from Oregon. It will reduce water flows in the summer to a much lower level. It will turn a county that is a net exporter of energy into one that is a net consumer of energy produced elsewhere.

It will also drag two agriclutural areas - the Scott and Shasta Valleys into the mess. (These are areas with small family heritage farms.) Plans are to use restrictions on their water and land use to mitigate the impact of the upper Klamath on salmon.

To top it off, the whole thing is based on manipulated science to intentionaly support dam removal: Fired federal adviser files whistle-blower complaint over Klamath dam removal Here are his allegations: and his bio

The Board of Sups hired a consultant and found several irregularities in the science

There are also scientists at ESIPRI who are reviewing the integrity of the science:

41 posted on 02/29/2012 10:38:21 PM PST by marsh2
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To: marsh2

I should have known you would be hear...

43 posted on 02/29/2012 10:46:58 PM PST by tubebender (I always wanted to be somebody, but now I realize I should have been more specific.)
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To: marsh2; Baynative; SierraWasp; Jeff Head

Thanks for weighing in Marsh. You are the person who understands this more than anyone. I can see one of these dams from my front window.

45 posted on 03/01/2012 6:49:40 AM PST by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: marsh2; Baynative; SierraWasp; AuntB; All

Exactly, Marsh2.

Sadly, as with all groups, and we saw it in spades in 2001, there are farmers too who will try and “go along to get along.”

Now that the 2001 crisis is long past (although never truly resolved, either adequately or constitutionally), some are once again complacent.

This order, this effort just punctuates the willingness the individuals who want to destroy the agricultural and natrual resource capability of America are still fighting hard and stoill committing their tracesties, lies, illegal takings, unconstituional acts, and power mongering and marxist efforts to destroy America.

They must be fought on all fronts and the people have to come together to do so.

As with the Clinton years, under an Obama, and particularly an Eric Holder leadership, doing so will be very dangerous. We may hope that a change occurs in November like it did on November of 2000.

Although Bush was slow to act and help those who supported him, we eventually made enough impact to get him to act and the new DOI and BOR leaders ultimately came to the aid of the farmers. If Obama stays in power, I fear as we conservative, loyal to the constitution Americans protest and try to civilly protect our rights, that Salazaar and Holder would push it to violence to try and brutally and forcefully put down any such protest.

We went to Klamath without guns, in fact I wrote and distributed an email to amny, many people as I left sayoing specifically that I was leaving mine at home. But we also contacted all the militia leaders and others to be on guard and prepared in case it turned bad...because if it had, there would have been a different kind of fight ensue. I thank God and my Savior it did not lead to that in that case...but it is always possible when dealing with power hungry and power mad fanatics who want to step on the individual, unalienable rights of those standing up to defend them.

So...organnize, protest, and stand in November like our liberty and life depends on it (because IMHO, they do), and be careful and wise in this.

God grant that we can stand and thwart another effort to further erode, negatively impact, and destroy our prosperity and way of life.


46 posted on 03/01/2012 8:17:52 AM PST by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (
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To: marsh2; TEXOKIE;; SunkenCiv; E. Pluribus Unum; CharlyFord; cripplecreek; ...
Thank you for the detailed explanation.

The Damage Done to the Environment by Barack Obama and his fanatical Czars is unknown to most people and almost always based on false science and contrived dangers to some endangered or sacred fish or insect.

It was junk science and the "by any means" Agenda 21 movement that became the catalyst for the creation of ESIPRI as we fought against burdensome and unconstitutional shoreline and riparian restrictions here in Western Washington State. The allied forces of the Olympic Stewardship Foundation and the Citizens Alliance for Property Rights (CAPR)were fighting a good fight, but losing ground to false science and the fanatical environmentalism supported by our tax dollars thorough the EPA and individual departments of ecology. This assault on our environment, our constitutional rights and our common sense will continue to succeed unless we educate more people and get them involved.

To all who are following this or other threads please understand how valuable a service the folks at ESIPRI are doing on your behalf. It is no small task to take the time to disprove what agenda driven activists will accept as "Best Available Science" if it supports their objectives. We have even seen undergraduate college papers and letters to the editor enter the public record and claim factual representation. We've seen people sympathetic with the ideals of Agenda 21 can gain credibility by taking an 8 hour course on recycling or beach watching, while PhD scientists run up against a brick wall in trying to present factual scientific data to self serving politicians. Thus the need for dedicated folks like those who participate in the ESIPRI process if unbiased and independent peer review.

I know it's election season and we have just gone through a quarterly fundraiser here at FR, but any donation you can make to them would be a great help.

Marsh, I hope you will keep us informed. I have a short Agenda 21 ping list, but nothing specific to dams and rivers. If there is one you know of, please ping them to this thread and add me to any lists you have as well. Thanks

BUT WAIT ...there's more---This just came in from a friend of mine at ESIPRI

Jim —
"This issue has changed dramatically this week.

Trademark America has been working with the Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors on a formal coordination process with the Department of Interior on the Klamath Dams removal issue. On Monday, Secretary of Interior Salazar announced that instead of making and publishing a decision by March 31, he will now await Congressional approval prior to making and announcing a decision.

Since the current House of Representatives will not provide that approval, the dams are safe for now . . . unless the House reverts to Democrat control and the Republicans fail to win the Senate."

47 posted on 03/01/2012 8:51:34 AM PST by Baynative (Please check this out -
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