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We’re Still Worrying About EMPs
Defense Tech ^ | 2/29/2012 | Defense Tech

Posted on 02/29/2012 7:54:36 PM PST by U-238

EMPs!!! You know, the big electronics-frying pulses that accompany nuclear blasts. We’re back to worrying about them again. In particular how does the military protect its electrical infrastructure from an EMP attack.

“Yeah, we have issues there [with the EMP threat] and we have to look at those and we seriously have to understand that in the Army in particular, because we have an awful lot of bases that we look at,” said Marilyn Freeman assistant secretary of the Army for research and technology during a House Armed Services emerging threats subcomittee hearing today. “I work very closely and the folks in my office and accross the laboratory system of the Army work very close with the installations folks as we assess what our vulnerabilities are to power and energy issues and one of the things we’re trying to do is actually set up the ability for our various bases to be more energy self sufficient, more energy secure and to have the ability, not only to be more efficient and effective, but also to be safe and not vulnerable” to attacks from EMPs that would shut down a bases power systems.

If you think it’s easy to harden a base connected to the civilian power grid from an EMP blast, think again, one of Freeman’s fellow Pentagon science officials said in when a lawmaker asked how soon the nation can protect its bases and power infrastructure from EMP attack.

(Excerpt) Read more at defensetech.org ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: e4b; emp; infrastructure; nuclear; pentagon; science; usarmy; usmilitary
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1 posted on 02/29/2012 7:54:43 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

Every four months there are a rash of EMP articles. This came up last week too.


2 posted on 02/29/2012 8:01:23 PM PST by DBrow
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To: U-238

3 posted on 02/29/2012 8:02:27 PM PST by RedCell (Honor thy Father (9/6/07) - Semper Fi / "...it is their duty, to throw off such government...")
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To: U-238

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2010/12/emp-death-of-america-in-the-blink-of-an-eye/


4 posted on 02/29/2012 8:02:27 PM PST by WXRGina (Further up and further in!)
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To: DBrow

Its important. Because many rogue nations are building the atomic bomb. Any prelude to a first strike will be an EMP attack. Another form of EMP attack is from the Sun especually now when the electromagnetic field around us is weakening.


5 posted on 02/29/2012 8:04:44 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

“Any prelude to a first strike will be an EMP attack. “

Yes, if the enemy has lots of nukes and can get a missile 200 miles above the center of CONUS without being detcted and shot down on the first try.

A rogue nation will be far more likely to smuggle the nuke in disguised as a bale of pot or cocaine, and deliver it by van to some city.

Why do you think the electromagnetic field is weakening?


6 posted on 02/29/2012 8:08:17 PM PST by DBrow
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To: DBrow

Two more “EMP attacks” would be an explosion of a nearby supernova or a galactic superwave(which is only a theory)


7 posted on 02/29/2012 8:09:35 PM PST by U-238
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To: DBrow

Believe me, the Russians will throw everything in a first strike.Russian doctrine is “Only the offensive leads to the attainment of victory over the enemy. As a type of combat, the offensive has incontestable advantages over the defense. The attacker has broad capabilities for launching surprise strikes, for the rapid exploitation of the results of nuclear attacks” This is from a Russian military strategist Col. Sidorenko

On the Earths magnetic field:http://www.science20.com/make_love_not_war/blog/earth%E2%80%99s_weakening_geomagnetic_force_and_possible_polar_reversal-76775


8 posted on 02/29/2012 8:13:55 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

I have a contact who works in the electronics field who tells me that EMP, or more specifically HEMP and CME-type disruptions are WAY overhyped. The grid, even as tattered as it is, can more than handle a single airburst nuke. Yes, some (easily-replaced) components may be damaged directly under the blast, and there is of course the chance that the odd big stepdown transformer might go, but the grid is redundant enough to route around that kind of thing. Only a synchronized multiple-burst attack could cover enough of the grid to prevent the EM transient from being dissipated. No country that really has a hate on for us has the capabilities or the technology to put multiple nukes in orbit and trigger them all over us with enough simultaneity to do that kind of damage.

Further, the vast majority of consumer electronics are insulated enough that they won’t be toasted permanently. Only things actually plugged into the wall will really be affected at all, and then only slightly. The military only worries about this kind of thing because they’re likely to need to be able to function after a close strike from a nuke, not an orbital one.

A lot of the “information” about the damage caused by EMP is propaganda left over from the cold war, when our scientists vastly overstated the effects as an attempt to make the Soviets think that their stuff was in too much danger to risk a war.


9 posted on 02/29/2012 8:14:37 PM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: Little Pig

Could China do it?


10 posted on 02/29/2012 8:18:34 PM PST by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: Little Pig

Go tell your friend that he is an idiot, then kick him between the legs.


11 posted on 02/29/2012 8:20:23 PM PST by patton (bad math joke omitted - this space for rent)
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To: DBrow

>>>Every four months there are a rash of EMP articles. This came up last week too.<<<

Yep. I used to comment on them, then I ran out stuff to say. It’s a threat. Along with all the other threats. I presume that the guys in the military have been preparing for this since it became apparent after the 1962 Johnson Island test near Hawaii, if not before. As far as I’m concerned, I’m following my grandpa’s advice to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. If the scenario in “One Second After” comes about, my family and I will survive. On the other hand, I’ve seen a lifetime of doomsday scenarios, starting with “On The Beach” and “The Population Bomb,” and continuing through “The Day After” and “The End of Nature.” Not to mention “The Late Great Planet Earth.” My guess is that we’ll be gobsmacked out of left field by something that nobody, or very few, have been talking about, and I hope I’m prepared. I can do what I do and the rest is in God’s hands.


12 posted on 02/29/2012 8:21:17 PM PST by redpoll
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To: Little Pig

This is my EMP simulation:

Suddenly, without warning, nuclear detonations occur simultaneously, high in the atmosphere over different sections of the North American continent and Western Europe. These detonations originate from pre-positioned orbiting satellites armed with atomic weapons.

These high altitude bursts do not affect the surface of the earth with any form of destructive heat, overpressure or radiation, but a phenomenon occurs which is called Electro Magnetic Pulse, or EMP. The Electro Magnetic Pulse out across North America and the detotated N-bomb over Western Europe, collecting on power transmission lines and communication antennas. For a fraction of a second, the EMP spikes the power grid and receiving antennas with a huge surge of voltage. In the process of seeking ground, this surge is so quick and great that it jumps across conventional surge protectors, lightning protection, and even open circuits where the power switches are turned off, burning out and rendering useless all sensitive electronics, computers and communication equipment.The confusion created by the disruption of the national communication network is considerable. .

http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p913.htm


13 posted on 02/29/2012 8:22:48 PM PST by U-238
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To: Little Pig

This is my EMP simulation:

Suddenly, without warning, nuclear detonations occur simultaneously, high in the atmosphere over different sections of the North American continent and Western Europe. These high altitude bursts do not affect the surface of the earth with any form of destructive heat, overpressure or radiation, but a phenomenon occurs which is called Electro Magnetic Pulse, or EMP. The Electro Magnetic Pulse out across North America and the detotated N-bomb over Western Europe, collecting on power transmission lines and communication antennas. For a fraction of a second, the EMP spikes the power grid and receiving antennas with a huge surge of voltage. In the process of seeking ground, this surge is so quick and great that it jumps across conventional surge protectors, lightning protection, and even open circuits where the power switches are turned off, burning out and rendering useless all sensitive electronics, computers and communication equipment.The confusion created by the disruption of the national communication network is considerable. .

http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p913.htm


14 posted on 02/29/2012 8:23:59 PM PST by U-238
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To: Little Pig

This is my EMP simulation:

Suddenly, without warning, nuclear detonations occur simultaneously, high in the atmosphere over different sections of the North American continent and Western Europe. These high altitude bursts do not affect the surface of the earth with any form of destructive heat, overpressure or radiation, but a phenomenon occurs which is called Electro Magnetic Pulse, or EMP. The Electro Magnetic Pulse out across North America and the detotated N-bomb over Western Europe, collecting on power transmission lines and communication antennas. For a fraction of a second, the EMP spikes the power grid and receiving antennas with a huge surge of voltage. In the process of seeking ground, this surge is so quick and great that it jumps across conventional surge protectors, lightning protection, and even open circuits where the power switches are turned off, burning out and rendering useless all sensitive electronics, computers and communication equipment.The confusion created by the disruption of the national communication network is considerable. .

http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p913.htm


15 posted on 02/29/2012 8:24:16 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

“Another form of EMP attack is from the Sun especually now when the electromagnetic field around us is weakening.”

Then we have no choice. We must launch a preemptive attack on the sun.


16 posted on 02/29/2012 8:26:34 PM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: FerociousRabbit

Right(sarcasm on)


17 posted on 02/29/2012 8:28:02 PM PST by U-238
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To: DBrow
Why do you think the electromagnetic field is weakening?

Because the geeks at NOAA say it's in a decline based on their measurements. NASA is aware of, and adjusts for a particular spot east of South America. It weirds out their satellites, or something.

FedGov is spending billions on EMP protection. They seem to take it seriously.

I'm much less concerned about EMP from nukes than I am from the sun.

/johnny

18 posted on 02/29/2012 8:28:37 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Little Pig
From NOAA Space Weather Scales. We HAVE lost satellites from solar storms. EMP is real. Some sources say over 4 billion in direct losses.

/johnny

19 posted on 02/29/2012 8:35:43 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

If you have access to an old car (pre-computer), buy a tune-up kit for it - and bury it.

Points, plugs, condenser, coil, wires, battery - assuming a mechanical fuel pump.

Although I did once make a coil wire out of a coathanger - it was just out of necessity, I assure you.


20 posted on 02/29/2012 8:39:19 PM PST by patton (bad math joke omitted - this space for rent)
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To: U-238

Just put a really big Faraday cage over the US. Problem solved.


21 posted on 02/29/2012 8:39:35 PM PST by Nachoman (I HOPE we CHANGE presidents.)
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To: JRandomFreeper; DBrow
Why do you think the electromagnetic field is weakening?

Because the geeks at NOAA say it's in a decline based on their measurements. NASA is aware of, and adjusts for a particular spot east of South America. It weirds out their satellites, or something.


The decay of the earth's magnetic field has been observed since the field was first able to be measured.
22 posted on 02/29/2012 8:41:29 PM PST by aruanan
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To: Little Pig

Well my FRiend, you need to choose between educating yourself from source documents or listening to idiots like this “contact” of yours who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

I suggest education, but YMMV.

Some people just like to make snippy comments on the topic of EMP because either they flunked science (or reading) or because they think it’s cute somehow.

If you’d like some facts, here is a report from the British House of Commons that was released just this year:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmdfence/1552/155202.htm

Like Fox News says, “We report, you decide”. But facts are handy things.


23 posted on 02/29/2012 8:41:35 PM PST by bigbob
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To: Nachoman; All

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/1988/CM2.htm


24 posted on 02/29/2012 8:46:54 PM PST by U-238
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To: patton
I'm good. Thanks. I did an internship in late 1800s living for a couple of years on a remote mountain. And I've had jigs to wind coils since the early '70s (ham radio, dontchaknow). Caps are easy, if ugly.

I can and have built crystal radios with a chunk of galena, an empty cigarette pack, a sheet of newspaper, a toilet paper roll and a bunch of wire.

It's good for cooks to know the basics of technology, and how to build them from scratch. You just never know what might happen in a commercial kitchen.

/johnny

25 posted on 02/29/2012 8:48:05 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: U-238; All

Does anyone know whether or not the aircraft that dropped the A-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were damaged by EMP?


26 posted on 02/29/2012 8:53:26 PM PST by davisfh
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To: JRandomFreeper

They condenser is the key - most likely to fry, hard to replace.

OBTW, you have listed the makings for the threat ...


27 posted on 02/29/2012 8:54:44 PM PST by patton (bad math joke omitted - this space for rent)
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To: davisfh

The B-29 aircraft that delivered the nuclear weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not lose power due to damage to their electrical or electronic systems. This is simply because electrons (ejected from the air by gamma rays) are stopped quickly in normal air for bursts below roughly 10 km (about 6 miles), so they do not get a chance to be significantly deflected by the Earth’s magnetic field


28 posted on 02/29/2012 8:56:14 PM PST by U-238
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To: JRandomFreeper

You are older than you look.


29 posted on 02/29/2012 8:57:04 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: davisfh

If bombs had been within the intense nuclear radiation zone when the bombs exploded over those cities, then they would have suffered effects from the charge separation (radial) EMP


30 posted on 02/29/2012 8:57:22 PM PST by U-238
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To: patton

Unless one is expecting to get a pulse every freakin day or sumfin, replacement capacitors can be home rolled with wax paper and aluminum foil. In a circuit they can be protected with back to back Zener diodes rated higher than operating voltage but lower than maximum withstanding voltage.

Cat whisker on galena can work, but it is a pain. Better to have a stock of diodes kept wrapped in foil or something.


31 posted on 02/29/2012 9:01:38 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: JRandomFreeper

“Because the geeks at NOAA say it’s in a decline based on their measurements. NASA is aware of, and adjusts for a particular spot east of South America.”

Earth’s MAGNETIC field always changes.

And the spot off South America is the SAA, it has to do with trapped solar particles.

Neither have anything to do with EMP caused by a nuke.


32 posted on 02/29/2012 9:01:57 PM PST by DBrow
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To: ansel12
Let me rephrase... In the first part of the 21st century, I did an internship in how to live under 19th century conditions. For 2 years.

Smartass. ;)

/johnny

33 posted on 02/29/2012 9:02:56 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Ya know, the Amish might have an unexpected advantage.


34 posted on 02/29/2012 9:05:18 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: davisfh

They were not. Radios and radars intact. Same is true for the planes that dropped bombs for tests.

But- these were low altitude shots. You get source region EMP (SREMP) but no HEMP, High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse.


35 posted on 02/29/2012 9:05:26 PM PST by DBrow
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Dude, I am going to need you in my bug-out location...

LOL.


36 posted on 02/29/2012 9:05:45 PM PST by patton (bad math joke omitted - this space for rent)
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To: davisfh

“e aircraft that dropped the A-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were damaged by EMP?”

I don’t think that these aircraft had any computers on board to worry about.


37 posted on 02/29/2012 9:07:04 PM PST by garjog
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To: JRandomFreeper

LOL, I thought that might be the case.


38 posted on 02/29/2012 9:07:12 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: DBrow
But they are ElectroMagnetic effects of unusual events. As is EMPulses.

I'm not particularly worried about EMP from nukes. But our feral gooberment takes it seriously enough to spend billions of our tax dollars preparing for it.

/johnny

39 posted on 02/29/2012 9:08:16 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: U-238

It’s been how long since an above surface nuclear bomb was tested? Those sites would be ideal places to research the effects of associated EMP. But the environmentalists would be way too agog now.


40 posted on 02/29/2012 9:08:22 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: JRandomFreeper

As a civil defense issue, that probably is one of the few things our modern federales are involved in that makes constitutional sense. I can think of very few complaints about that.


41 posted on 02/29/2012 9:10:13 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Cat whisker on galena can work, but it is a pain.

One must become one with the lead alloy. Allow one's thoughts to grow heavy, yet hard edged...

And have a butt-load of time to screw around with it.

/johnny

42 posted on 02/29/2012 9:12:11 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/hane.html


43 posted on 02/29/2012 9:12:11 PM PST by U-238
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse (NNEMP) is an electromagnetic pulse generated without use of nuclear weapons. There are a number of devices that can achieve this objective.NNEMP generators also include large structures built to generate EMP for testing of electronics to determine how well it survives EMP


44 posted on 02/29/2012 9:18:40 PM PST by U-238
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To: JRandomFreeper

Apparently I achieved the requisite zen with a piece of galena when I had a cat whisker radio kit as a kid. It only brought in one station, however. The slider on the coil was useless. Later radios built with a packaged germanium diode performed better and even tuned in multiple stations. I was never able to get the “safety pin point on a tarnished penny” detector system to work, though it would have looked cool as heck if it did.


45 posted on 02/29/2012 9:19:04 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: U-238

Unless somebody has actually been to a blast and done that I would take their pontifications with a large accretion of salt.


46 posted on 02/29/2012 9:20:07 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: HiTech RedNeck

In Operation Orange in 1958,was a 3.8 megaton explosion that was launched by a Redstone rocket that occured 250,000 feet However, due to a programming failure it burst directly over the island at the desired elevation making the island the effective ground-zero. It caused temporary blindnes on the island. Wehrner Von Braun was present at that test.


47 posted on 02/29/2012 9:25:59 PM PST by U-238
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To: JRandomFreeper

Oh... and I believe galena isn’t an alloy, it’s a compound. Lead sulfide. (II) to be technical about it (there are sulfides with various valences). It itself looks leaden grey, so it’s easy to confuse with an alloy.


48 posted on 02/29/2012 9:28:36 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: U-238

Blindness how? From the brilliance of the visible light emitted? Blinding radios through damage? Some interaction between the bursts of ionizing and non ionizing radiation and optic nerves, even of those whose eyes got none of the visible light?


49 posted on 02/29/2012 9:30:47 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: HiTech RedNeck

The brilliance of the light. Its like the sun exploding. I have nuclear flash goggles.


50 posted on 02/29/2012 9:32:07 PM PST by U-238
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