Skip to comments.FBI director: Have to check whether targeted killing rule is outside US only.
Posted on 03/08/2012 2:53:22 AM PST by carriage_hill
FBI Director Robert Mueller on Wednesday said he would have to go back and check with the Department of Justice whether Attorney General Eric Holder's "three criteria" for the targeted killing of Americans also applied to Americans inside the U.S.
Pressed by House lawmakers about a recent speech in which Holder described the legal justification for assassination, Mueller, who was attending a hearing on his agency's budget, did not say without qualification that the three criteria could not be applied inside the U.S.
"I have to go back. Uh, I'm not certain whether that was addressed or not," Mueller said when asked by Rep. Kevin Yoder, R-Kan., about a distinction between domestic and foreign targeting
Yoder followed up asking whether "from a historical perspective," the federal government has "the ability to kill a U.S. citizen on United States soil or just overseas."
"I'm going to defer that to others in the Department of Justice," Mueller replied.
Indeed, Holder's Monday speech at Northwestern University seemed to leave the door open. While Holder speaks of Americans who lead al Qaeda overseas, the implications of the speech seem broad.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
or, in English, "Breibarted"
Things move ever faster as your country circles the drain.
Our Country had been on a long slow slide into Hell. Then Barack Obama was elected. Now the slow slide, is a free fall!
Yoder followed up asking whether “from a historical perspective,” the federal government has “the ability to kill a U.S. citizen on United States soil or just overseas.”
“I’m going to defer that to others in the Department of Justice,” Mueller replied.
HOLY F*&%^^* ^&%$# these *&^%$(*&^ &^%$$$^!!
I thought for sure this was one of those “semi-satire” threads. Unbelievable! (Well, sadly, not really I guess.)
Although I guess even if it was found to be illegal to kill someone on U.S. soil, they could just send a SWAT team on a no-knock raid to the “wrong” address.
targeted killing without trial = legal, OK
(if a democrat is president)
nonlethal waterboarding = illegal, torture
“I have to go back. Uh, I’m not certain whether that was addressed or not,” Mueller said when asked by Rep. Kevin Yoder, R-Kan., about a distinction between domestic and foreign targeting
The HEAD of the FBI doesn’t know this?! Who and what the L are we payin’ to run this stuff. Are they THAT inept?
We are in such deep chit...
NDAA. . .3 Reps, 3 Dems and 1 Ind. voted against it. The “us” vs “them” isn’t a Rep vs Dem situation but it’s been a great distraction while the Devil himself does his handiwork. Variations in rhetoric allow different people to get in power, there’s no legit honorable values behind any of the b.s..
We’re “circling the drain” allright, but it’s OK - the RATS are in charge, so it’s legal.
Im going to defer that to others in the Department of Justice, Mueller replied.”
He already knows that contorted answer, which Holder (THUG-NY) will give: YES.
Satire? I had to re-read it 2x, to make sure it wasn’t, but since it was on Fox News’ site, I knew that TSHTF is now coming sooner than I’d thought possible. Their groundwork for prosecution/persecution of Americans at home, is almost in place. It’s gonna get “bumpy”, now.
It’s gonna get real “bumpy” from here on in, S A.
Darn good thing the only one who cn exercise the death penalty without traditional due process is the guy who wants to punish his enemies..
Congress better sack-up, grow a pair and defeat this, somehow.
The wolf is inside the hen house, and the feathers are about to turn red.
He knows exactly; he just wants someone else to say it.
Congress, he!!, if they start shooting at innocent citizens, the people had better danged well start shooting back!
They’re already doing it; this just means it’s *legal & protected* now, and probably immune to wrongful-death lawsuits. You’re right about our “response” to it, BTW...
Welcome to Free Republic!
Thank you! Nice to be aboard.
this youtube belongs here too
Alright, I’m ready to get flamed. We’ve all seen the movie Bonnie & Clyde (or if you haven’t, you ought to). Wasn’t that a targeted killing? The end, their end, is what I’m talking about. Would you really make that illegal? And for those who don’t know, some people at the time did think it was murder.
Is it really wrong under any circumstances? Remember, the next Republican President is gonna have to live with whatever rules we make now. One of the advantages of having Democrat Presidents from time to time is that they’re allowed to get away with things that Republicans aren’t. Sets a precedent.
No public review.
You just end up assassinated.
Somehow, I don’t think this is the system the founders had in mind.
What’s new? The BATF has been executing people without trial for decades.
This is a step beyond a Star Chamber. Sheesh! What unconstitutional criminals.
I’m not sure the corrupt DOJ will be “selective” with this power; they’ll use it on everyone and anyone they deem to be “opposed” to Obummer. THAT’S the big problem. (Putting on my Nomex racing suit, too)
No problem or change, as far as they’re concerned. They just won’t get sued as often. It’ll be *legal*.
Nope, it isn’t. But then, they didn’t have Obummer & Co to deal with. Someone like him was eventually going to come along; too bad it’s now, but we have to deal with it and rid the Nation of him and his criminal minions, IMO.
Only time will tell if that is the story, if at all.
They’re talking “international basis” there, not US soil... (I watched the first half only).
Obama and Holder already crossed the mass-murder Rubicon with Operation Fast and Furious.
Killing “enemies of the regime” in the USA would not make mke them break a sweat.
Please read this, save it, and share it:
“Gangster Government, And Sakharov’s Immunity”
They resisted an arrest where there were duly constituted Warrants. All B&C had to do was throw up their hands. And that was a movie, dude.
Bonnie and Clyde had looted an arsenal and were equipped with full-auto 30-06 BARs, and they used them often. They were driving the monster muscle cars of the day, Ford V-8s. The police had no radios to coordinate cordons, or planes or helos above to follow B&C.
So when they had a when and a where, yes, they set up a roadside ambush. But keep in mind, B&C were already wanted for many murders, and it was known they would go down guns-blazing, and their BARs and cars topped anything the police had.
To try to talk them into surrenduring would have been a joke. To try to peacefully arrest them would have resulted in a bloodpath, with BARs blazing.
It was an exceptional situation, more so in the 1930s, when law enforcement capabilities were so much more primitive.
Bonnie and Clyde committed the real crimes of robbery, kidnapping and murder. They were “assassinated”, if you will, by a posse of four Texas officers and two Louisiana officers - not Federal officers.
A memo released by the Dept of Homeland Security included the phrase:
Rightwing extremism ... can be broadly divided into those who are primarily hate-oriented, and those who are mainly antigovernment and reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority. This term also may refer to rightwing extremist movements that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.
This description has been used by DHS to help define “terrorists”.
Your federal government can classify you as a terrorist by you just not liking them or what they do. They can, apparently, use that to justify killing you while you’re out of the country (or IN the country possibly [probably]). You don’t necessarily have to DO anything, but if you even SAY something (or post it on your Facebook page) you can be targeted by the government and classified a terrorist. I don’t see any comparison here with the death of B&C.
“Is it really wrong under any circumstance?” Yes - it’s wrong under ANY circumstance. Because the moment it’s allowed, you have ceased to be a country of laws. If the government can selectively deprive someone of their unalienable right to live, without due process, then the Constitution means nothing and you have NO rights.
Not flaming, just commenting.
Lemme get this straight.
Holder and Zer0 demand foreign terrorists be given jury trials in the US but domestic terrorists (Holder determines that status)can be assassinated/murdered without any legal recourse?
Well, now we know why Obama agreed to extend Mueller’s term in office even though he came in under Bush.
First let me say that nobody has to convince me that it was OK for the “laws” to kill Bonnie & Clyde, but I do believe that there is general agreement that the gentlemen responsible shot first, with any attempt at an arrest coming afterwards. But that’s OK by me because I agree with Travis McGee that it was an “exceptional situation.” And while the two were wanted for various crimes, including murder, I would remind all that there were no trials or convictions.
But my point is that “exceptional situations” are all too possible in the future. Inevitable, I suspect, given the nature of our enemies.
Now there are supposed to be safeguards in place to prevent abuse of these new rules. The “three criteria” which Holder talks about. The first two of these are, from the article....
“...the U.S. government has determined, after a thorough and careful review, that the individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States; second, capture is not feasible........”
OK, that seems to me to pretty much cover Bonnie & Clyde right there if you replace “United States” with people in general. Does it worry me that this could be abused? Yes. On the other hand, I kinda suspect that the police sometimes abused their authority back in the 1930s too.
Can you not imagine a situation similar to B & C involving terrorists? How about this....a pilot with a history of anti-government (remember this could be a “militia” guy or it could be some eco-extremist) activities is seen loading explosives aboard an airplane. He then takes off and flies in the direction of New York or Chicago or name your favorite city. He doesn’t respond to radio traffic. Would we not have the right to take this guy out?
Remember that we now know that Cheney gave an order to shoot down Flight 93. Should this have been illegal?
And please, rather than poke holes in my example, deal with the general idea. If I fail in giving an airtight example it is probably because I lack the imagination or knowledge, not because no such circumstance is possible...
I posted to point out the casual dismiss they have been using of the Constitution
I’m thinking so, too, but we’ll have to wait for the “official findings” BS, won’t we?
I will, T. BTW, I have your signed books and have read/re-read 2x: awesome, sir.
That’s what it appears to be. US Citizen-Patriots just get killed; no charges, trial etc.
yup for what they will be worth...
You can be sure it’ll be a very *sanitized* report we’ll finally get.
There are a few things about this targeted killing that are troublesome. First, as I read Holder’s three points, it is not necessary that the target actually commits a crime. In the Fort Hood example, Al Awaki (sp?) arguably gave sermons that inspired the shooter. Think how the DOJ could use this definition combined with an assertion that it’s unlikely that the individual be captured to assassinate most any conservative poster who advocates some type of immediate government change (throw the bum out). It’s a far different criteria the resisting a lawful arrest, resisting officers serving a lawful search warrant. Now I’m talking about the legal standard not the abuses that frequently happen.
IMO this gives a free pass for purely political assassinations.
Most troubling is that it is blatantly against the spirit and words of the Constitution. There are no exceptions in the due process clause for guys who go jihadist. Firefight? Waste them. Exigent circumstance? Two to center mass.
But planned assasinations of "terrorists" who are American citizens based on one man's approval? I think not.
Even trying them in absentia would at least be some sort of dure process if they refuse extradition.
I mean Obama killed a 16 year old American citizen, al Awaki's son, with a drone. He was wanted for nothing.
Scary, J. Guilt-by-inference/association is what they’re after. I can just see the widespread use of this and the bloody results, now.
but Mueller, Freech, the top generals and admirials of this country: when the country needed men to step up and show character, they rested on their laurels and their money and pensions....