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Zeroing In on Lead in Hunters’ Bullets
New York Times ^ | March 15, 2012 | DOUGLAS M. MAIN

Posted on 03/16/2012 7:24:49 AM PDT by Greystoke

Citing risks to birds and to human health, roughly 100 environmental groups formally asked the federal Environmental Protection Agency this week to ban or at least impose limits on lead in the manufacturing of bullets and shotgun pellets for hunting or recreation.

The use of such ammo by hunters puts about 3,000 pounds of lead into the environment annually and causes the death of 20 million birds each year from lead poisoning, said Jeff Miller, a conservation advocate at one of the groups, the Center for Biological Diversity. Consumption of meat from animals that are shot with lead bullets also contributes unacceptable levels of the metal into people’s diets, Mr. Miller said in a phone interview.

(Excerpt) Read more at green.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: alinskytactics; ammo; backdoorguncontrol; banglist; corruption; democrats; envirofascism; epa; fraud; guncontrol; lead; leadbullets; liberalfascism; progressives; propaganda; undertheradar
Here we go again, the liberals are pushing for yet another backdoor gun control scheme by trying to ban lead in bullets.
1 posted on 03/16/2012 7:24:54 AM PDT by Greystoke
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To: bang_list

ping


2 posted on 03/16/2012 7:26:21 AM PDT by Greystoke
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To: Greystoke
The use of such ammo by hunters puts about 3,000 pounds of lead into the environment annually and causes the death of 20 million birds each year from lead poisoning, said Jeff Miller, a conservation advocate at one of the groups, the Center for Biological Diversity

What warm, dark orifice did the 20 million figure come from, and how many of these were the birds that were aimed at?

3 posted on 03/16/2012 7:27:21 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Greystoke

They need to be made of nerf. So nobody gets hurt.


4 posted on 03/16/2012 7:27:45 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Mohammedan law every woman must belong to a man will delay the end of slavery until Islam has ceased)
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To: Greystoke
causes the death of 20 million birds each year from lead poisoning

Yeah, they usually die when they're shot. Just another example of liberals making up numbers to push their agenda-prove it!

5 posted on 03/16/2012 7:27:46 AM PDT by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: Greystoke
My birds die of lead poisoning every year, but not by eating it ! ..uh well then maybe so, kinda like a figure of speech ,,,uh... Never mind
6 posted on 03/16/2012 7:28:23 AM PDT by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: Smokin' Joe

one in which the sun does not shine, I’d wager..


7 posted on 03/16/2012 7:28:25 AM PDT by RitchieAprile
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20 millions birds die from “lead poisoning”? Yeah, whatever.

Don’t be surprised to see the rogue EPA comply, though, especially around November 15th, if the Obamaster wins re-election.


8 posted on 03/16/2012 7:28:29 AM PDT by Arkansas Toothpick
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To: Greystoke

IIRC, shotgun shot has been made of tin and antimony for years now, right?

If the Left wants to go after someone, let them go after the “carbon footprint” of the mansions of their favorite Entertainment, Music Industry and “news” heroes.

And what about the lead in the type and ink of the printed newspapers?


9 posted on 03/16/2012 7:30:30 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Greystoke
The use of such ammo by hunters puts about 3,000 pounds of lead into the environment annually

Where'd it come from in the first place?

and causes the death of 20 million birds each year from lead poisoning, said Jeff Miller

I don't believe they tested 20 million birds and came up with "cause of death: lead poisoning".

10 posted on 03/16/2012 7:31:13 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Greystoke
The use of such ammo by hunters puts about 3,000 pounds of lead into the environment annually and causes the death of 20 million birds each year from lead poisoning, said Jeff Miller, a conservation advocate at one of the groups, the Center for Biological Diversity.

Equals .3 grams per square mile - an amount that can't be measured. Which also makes it meaningless. Really wish we could shut down the whole EPA scam so that slimes like these can't use the excuse of overstepping federal authority to impose restrictions on the people.

11 posted on 03/16/2012 7:31:44 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: Westbrook

Thought it was steel. And bismuth?


12 posted on 03/16/2012 7:32:19 AM PDT by ngat
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To: Greystoke

“...ammo by hunters puts about 3,000 pounds of lead into the environment annually..”

Isn’t that about equal to what’s fired directly straight up into the air (via AK47’s) at any Muzzie wedding or like ‘celebration’?


13 posted on 03/16/2012 7:32:33 AM PDT by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
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To: ngat

> Thought it was steel. And bismuth?

Maybe.

But, as I suspect, it ain’t lead.


14 posted on 03/16/2012 7:37:48 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: panaxanax

>> “...ammo by hunters puts about 3,000 pounds of lead into
>> the environment annually..”
>
> Isn’t that about equal to what’s fired directly straight up
> into the air (via AK47’s) at any Muzzie wedding or like
> ‘celebration’?

LOL!

Very funny, but very TRUE!


15 posted on 03/16/2012 7:39:04 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Greystoke

Thar sure would make life difficult for those of us who shoot black powder firearms, as we must use pure, soft lead for our patched round balls. Alloys are too hard to load.

Guess I will have to add lead to my list of things to stockpile.


16 posted on 03/16/2012 7:40:16 AM PDT by Rockhound (My dog ate my tagline)
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To: Greystoke

It might be good to point out that lead is a substance that comes out of the ground. There is a road in my town named Lead Mine road. It’s up hill from a water supply that the deer, bear, coyotes, migratory birds and bobcats drink from. There are trout in that water as well. I suppose that’s okay since there are no guns involved.


17 posted on 03/16/2012 7:40:27 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (No wonder this administration favors abortion; everything they have done is an abortion)
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To: Greystoke

Watched the “discussion” on Foxnews this morning and the guy supporting the ban on lead said he was a hunter and a Ducks Unlimited member, etc., etc., etc. He was off the wall, IMHO! Plus, Foxnews gave him a lot more time to spew his side of the story! Anti-gun New Yorkers...


18 posted on 03/16/2012 7:40:35 AM PDT by Bushbacker1 (I miss President Bush! 2012 - The End Of An Error! (Oathkeeper))
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To: Brett66

Didn’t they ban lead in shotgun shells a number of years ago? This is trying to ban lead in bullets!


19 posted on 03/16/2012 7:42:18 AM PDT by Bushbacker1 (I miss President Bush! 2012 - The End Of An Error! (Oathkeeper))
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To: Greystoke

I saw this coming in the ‘90s, which is why I cast my own. Lee and Lyman make nice cheap setups. Lead isn’t cheap anymore, but expensive is better than unavailable.


20 posted on 03/16/2012 7:42:45 AM PDT by jboot
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To: Greystoke

A solid ball of lead is NOT the same as unbound, free lead in solution. A solid ball of lead will remain a solid ball of lead for hundreds of years. Heck, in battlegrounds across the country, tourists are still finding lead balls used in battles fought during the civil war.

In nature, a lead pellet falls to the ground (usually marshlands) and sinks into the muck, and is eventually buried deep under the water - where it is, and remains chemically inert.

The same thing can be said for lead in leaded Glass - the lead is chemically bound to the Silicon Dioxide in the glass. It’s not a free to react ... it’s chemically bound. Unless you grind the glass into powder or melt it down - you aren’t going to get that lead back.

And what planet do Libtards think we mine lead, to bring back to earth?


21 posted on 03/16/2012 7:42:45 AM PDT by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: Greystoke
Well-organized campaign of Leftist lies
22 posted on 03/16/2012 7:45:11 AM PDT by pabianice (")
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To: jboot

Actually, lead is free. Next time you go to your local gun club, pick up any bullets that have been fired laying around on the ground and smelt your own. My father did this when I was growing up and cast and swaged all of our bullets.

You can also get tons of free used wheel weights from tire repair shops.

Which brings up the matter of will these lead tire wheel weights also be banned?


23 posted on 03/16/2012 7:55:41 AM PDT by Greystoke
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To: Greystoke

Just wait, next the enviro-geeks will be demanding the U.S. Military ban lead in our soldiers weapons.


24 posted on 03/16/2012 7:57:55 AM PDT by gettinolder (Smashed lips save ships.)
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To: Greystoke

about 3,000 pounds of lead into the environment annually and causes the death of 20 million birds each year from lead poisoning, said Jeff Miller, a conservation advocate at one of the groups, the Center for Biological Diversity. Consumption of meat from animals that are shot with lead bullets also contributes unacceptable levels of the metal into people’s diets, Mr. Miller said in a phone interview...

Bullshite.

Unsubstantiated nonsense meant to scare the stupid...like Mr Miller, there....

Its an insulting pantload.


25 posted on 03/16/2012 8:01:21 AM PDT by Adder (Da bro has GOT to go!)
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To: Greystoke

They have tried this crap before and gotten nowhere.


26 posted on 03/16/2012 8:04:41 AM PDT by thethirddegree
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To: Greystoke

Where does lead come from?

The ground.

Where do bullets go that miss their target?

The ground.


27 posted on 03/16/2012 8:05:14 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: kingu

I think that is probably a low estimate. I just figured I shoot about 50 rounds a week of .45ACP alone. 230x50 is 11500 grains divided by 7000 is 1.64 pounds a week x 52 weeks is about 85 pounds of .45. I will also shoot another 50 through an AR or AK, plus various hunting rifles up to a .416, plus vast .22 bullets, then shotshells at 16 shots to a pound. I probably put 600 pounds out myself. I do my part though, and shoot some Barnes bullets (all copper) on a lot of big game. The whole idea is BS anyway.


28 posted on 03/16/2012 8:05:53 AM PDT by nobamanomore
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To: Greystoke

So the envirowhacks want to take on the NRA? Let ‘em try.
They are about to be destroyed by their own overreach anyhow.


29 posted on 03/16/2012 8:11:11 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Smokin' Joe

I wonder how many birds die every year from those stupid wind farms the liberals love so much?

Banning lead ammo is just another back door gun grabbing scheme by the lefties.


30 posted on 03/16/2012 8:20:43 AM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (I'm NOT smitten' with Mittens)
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To: Bushbacker1

Lead shot was banned for hunting migratory waterfowl in the late 70s or early 80s. With the ban many hunter’s shotguns, including mine became obsolete for hunting waterfowl and the effectiveness of the legal shells was less than lead and the cost jumped dramatically. I belive the real goal is to make ammunition, hunting and anything else having to do with firearms more expensive. Now they are even talking about no lead in ammunition that is used for traditional plinking and shooting sports, all the altertanatives are more expensive. Owning guns is a RIGHT and there should NO tax on firearms or ammunition and no regulations that would increase price or reduce effectiveness of ammunition. The intent of the Second Amendment is for the PEOPLE to be armed and this includes adequate supplies of ammunition. Cost of gasoline, food, and everything else going up and there are those trying to increase the cost of ammo to stop us from stockpiling. I believe President George Washington would approve of the PEOPLE stoclpiling arms and ammunition.


31 posted on 03/16/2012 8:22:32 AM PDT by duffee (NEWT 2012)
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To: Greystoke

Gee. There is ANOTHER heavy metal that can be used for tire balancing weights. It is called GOLD, although it may just be a little pricey. Most other inexpensive metals are too light to be practical.
Please don’t agree with me.


32 posted on 03/16/2012 8:23:30 AM PDT by CaptainAmiigaf ( NY Times: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: nobamanomore

How many times have you seen a sparrow eat a spent .45ACP or a 45/70 Govt.?


33 posted on 03/16/2012 8:27:37 AM PDT by duffee (NEWT 2012)
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To: Fresh Wind

Where do bullets go that miss their target?

Actually, any bullet that doesn’t remain in the target goes in the ground...
That includes post-cleaning, I would assume.


34 posted on 03/16/2012 8:30:06 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Greystoke

They already are...they have to use steel now .....at twice the price BTW.


35 posted on 03/16/2012 8:41:56 AM PDT by rightwingextremist1776
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To: Greystoke

What a load of crap. By my calculations 3,000 pounds of lead = 48,000 ounces = 1,344,000 grams. Divided among 20,000,000 birds equals .0672 grams per bird. Number six shotgun pellets weight about .5250 grams each. Therefore each pellet would have to divided into 7.8125 pieces and distributed at the rate of one serving per bird. In addition, that dosage would have to lethal. The size would be about .35MM each. Really!


36 posted on 03/16/2012 8:47:26 AM PDT by doubleaught (Once a king always a king but once a knight is enough!)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation
I wonder how many birds die every year from those stupid wind farms the liberals love so much?

I dunno...the question was never answered when the Federal Prosecutor who was trying to prosecute seven oil companies in North Dakota over 28 dead birds found on drilling and producing locations (out of 6000+ locations) was asked about it.

You'd think if that was prosecuted with the vigor he tried to unleash on the oil companies involved ($15,000/bird, and jail time for someone responsible), they'd need unit trains to deliver the warrants for windfarms...

37 posted on 03/16/2012 9:00:14 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Greystoke
I have no problem with this. Make all bullets out of steel. Then, all rounds will be "armor piercing."

We need to have this bill drafted and passed right away, we can call it "the law of unintended consequences."

38 posted on 03/16/2012 9:06:41 AM PDT by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: duffee

IMIM193 5.56 55gr is almost impossible to find and IMIM855 5.56 62gr is getting scarce.


39 posted on 03/16/2012 9:13:38 AM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: Greystoke

By now if you haven’t collected more ammo than you’ll ever need then you B real slow.
Everyone should know what obammy’s ultimate goal is.


40 posted on 03/16/2012 9:23:30 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Hey Mitt, F-you too pal)
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To: Greystoke

” the death of 20 million birds each year from lead poisoning,”

Yeah, the high velocity strain of poisening.


41 posted on 03/16/2012 9:32:40 AM PDT by CSM
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To: Bushbacker1
Didn’t they ban lead in shotgun shells a number of years ago? This is trying to ban lead in bullets!

Yes and No

In 1976 EPA regulations that came about due to lead in paint. It was one of those protect the women and children things.

Ammunition (shotgun & rifle) was exempted, due to the fact that hunters and target shooters were organized against it. Lead used for fishing was not exempted. Fisher persons did not see the handwriting on the wall.

Now for the rest of the ammunition story or death by a thousand paper cuts started here in Missouri.

Only 4 years later The Swan Lake Zone was created. No lead shot for waterfowl. The same for the other waterfowl hunting areas controlled by the Missouri Department of Conservation (MDC).

Within a very few years it was expanded to statewide, no lead shot for waterfowl because ducks were diving down and digging the lead shot buried in mud and eating it . The same for geese, they could tell the difference between a ear of corn and a #2 lead bird shot . All this was done in the name of safety for the ducks and geese.(/s)

After the bans steel shot was the only choice for a number of years. After using lead shot, steel shot was like shooting ping pong balls at ducks and geese, due to the lower muzzle velocity and much lower sectional density of the steel pellets IMHO. More crippling and lost birds occurred.

About the year 2000 along came Bismuth and then HeavyShot loads. Duck and goose hunters now had the equivalent of lead shot at 3X to 5X the cost, but they did the job!

On to the next paper cut. About 5 years ago MDC said that hunters had to use steel or approved shot shells on 7 other areas they owned for doves, turkey etc. These were not waterfowl hunting areas. The number of MDC steel shot areas may have increased in the last 5 years.

Dove hunting with shot shells that cost 16 cents each vs shot shells that cost up to $1.25 each is a whole different ballgame for someone who shoots like I do.

Here in Missouri about 98% of the land used for hunting is privately owned. Will the next paper cut be no lead on private land?

On the subject of lead in rifle bullets. The MDC agrees with the studies make by the state of North Dakota that a deer harvested with bullets that contain some lead poise very little if any danger to those who eat the deer meat.

So far there have been no changes in the Missouri rifle regulations vs the wacko laws in a state like California.

42 posted on 03/16/2012 11:36:00 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: Greystoke

What is best for Moonbats? If the wookie gets a second term in the White House, open season will be declared


43 posted on 03/16/2012 11:40:37 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: nobamanomore
On another thread here on FR or from the NRA it was reported these 100 groups were using the figures of 3,000 tons for hunters AND 80,000 tons for target shooters.

Bird shot from skeet, trap or sporting clay ranges is reclaimed and sold as recycled shot for reloading.

I am sure the same is done on rifle ranges if it can be dug up.

These wacko groups and the EPA do play fast and loose with the unsubstantiated numbers they pull of out the blue.

44 posted on 03/16/2012 11:55:33 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: Greystoke

Hunters and their families average 12% less lead in their bloodstreams than the general population.

They’re like the original “Organic Dudes”, man....


45 posted on 03/16/2012 12:07:11 PM PDT by buffaloguy (uab.)
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To: Greystoke

Wheel weights? Free?

Nobody gets them free. It has been two decades or so since that was the case.


46 posted on 03/16/2012 12:14:22 PM PDT by buffaloguy (uab.)
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To: Greystoke

13.7 million birds die each day from natural causes. Even if the 20 million were corrct, which it is not, it wouldn’t amount to a hill of beans.


47 posted on 03/16/2012 12:22:12 PM PDT by buffaloguy (uab.)
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To: Greystoke
Questions: Lead is a naturally occurring substance. How is it that there's a problem? And we know that a gazillion birds die of lead poisoning exactly HOW? More Bravo Sierra science from the EPA?
48 posted on 03/16/2012 3:18:21 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: gettinolder

Here is a little history regarding the near complete emasculation of our infantry along with a little info about what makes a round really lethal as compared to inconvenient, and how what you postulate has already occurred:

The round for the M16 that we used in Vietnam was the 55 grain M193. It was the most lethal military round ever devised that I know of. Read the following link to understand in more detail why this was, but in brief instead of being a hole-puncher it was a soft target destroyer. Muscle and soft organ hits produced mush or puree if you prefer; single hits to bone in a limb could and often did result in the limb being ripped off. This means that a single solid hit would nearly always incapacitate and often kill - which is what shooting someone in a war situation is all about. I’ve treated men stitched five times in an arc across the chest (right side of course) from an AK, but I never heard of a similar incident occurring in regards to the M16 Vietnam era M193 round.

And then post Vietnam this happened:

“During the 1970s, NATO members signed an agreement to select a second, smaller caliber cartridge to replace the 7.62 mm NATO cartridge. Of the cartridges tendered, the 5.56x45mm was successful, but not the 55 gr M193 round used by the U.S. at that time. The wounds produced by the M193 round were so devastating that many[6] consider it to be inhumane.[7][8] Instead, the Belgian 62 gr SS109 round was chosen for standardization. The SS109 used a heavier bullet with a steel core and had a lower muzzle velocity for better long-range performance, specifically to meet a requirement that the bullet be able to penetrate through one side of a steel helmet at 600 meters. This requirement made the SS109 (M855) round less capable of fragmentation than the M193 and was considered more humane.”(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO)

As a piece of equipment the M16 was and is a miserable design - no one knows how many good men died in Vietnam or since because the sorry thing jammed, the only thing that made it worth using was the round it shot because it put the fear of God in the enemy. In Vietnam, fire fight frequency and duration plunged in areas where local units switched from M1 carbines to M16s - as soon as Charlie heard the sound of M16s the whole game changed because it is one thing to face a weapon that only punches holes but another to face one that will rip your arm off or turn your internal organs to mush while leaving an exit wound that looks like a mini-grenade explosion.

What was this Mother of a round? It looked like an overgrown 22 being a 5.56×45mm 55 grain copper jacketed Spitzer bullet with a lead core. The thing was it was fast, generally a shade over 3,000 fps, and when it hit it tumbled, to use the parlance we used back then, or yawed, as they say now. When it tumbled it was designed to break up, and because it had a soft lead core the pieces would also deform. This means that the kinetic energy of that fast moving bullet would be nearly instantaneously transferred to the surrounding tissue resulting in a little entry wound and a horrendous exit wound if there was one. Hollow points are poor cousins compared to what this round would do.

What it wouldn’t do was penetrated hard targets worth beans. But that was alright because it was the best anti-personnel round ever used and jungle fighting is most often up-close and personal.

The switch from the American 55 grain M193 to the European M855 with its steel penetrator tip and marginalized lead core was a step backwards from being a soft target destroyer back towards being just a hole puncher. It was an opening move in a deliberate campaign to emasculate our fighting forces.

This campaign was then escalated by the introduced of the M4 carbine, a sawed off M16 with a 14.5 inch barrel instead of the 21 inch M16 barrel. Anyone who knows anything about guns knows that they and their ammo must be design for each other. If you change the barrel length you must change the ammo. The 21 inch M16 barrel provided the environment in which the powder charge could accelerate that killing round to the velocity it needed to achieve the energy required to break up on impact and take the target down. The M4’s runt of a barrel can not do that. In the M4 the old 55 grain M193 would lose much of its effectiveness, with the 62 grain steel-lead core M855 the gun becomes so ineffective that even four hits to the chest may not instantly kill or incapacitate, but leaves an enemy combatant still fighting.

For our infantry this campaign of emasculation is just about complete: the pigmy barreled M4 has mostly replaced the M16, and in 2011 they switched from the marginal M855 to the M855A1 round.

The M855A1 is a Green Bullet, meaning it contains no lead, being a copper jacketed bullet with a steel tip on a copper core. It was the brain child of the Clinton administration who thought all that lead the military was throwing around just wouldn’t do. It is NOT an Anti-Personal Soft-Target round, it is a designated Armor Penetrating round. In other words it is a hole puncher. It is designed to NOT liberate energy on soft targets. We have gone from arming our troops with the most devastating rifle round ever designed to arming them with weapons designed to not kill the enemy, but rather to ensure that our troops will be emasculated to the point that they will not be able to defend themselves, much less take the fight to the enemy.

Like the stoppage of production for the premier air superiority fighter, the F22, and the pouring of billions up billions of dollars into a designed second rate air craft, the F35, the campaign to disarm and emasculate the United States military is nearing its goal. And it is being done right in front of our faces with our tax dollars.


49 posted on 03/17/2012 12:23:55 AM PDT by bacsi
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To: Bushbacker1
Didn’t they ban lead in shotgun shells a number of years ago?

No. Only the use of lead for hunting waterfowl. And that 3,000 pound figure is laughable. Works out to 48,000 one ounce loads. 3,000 tons, maybe. And places where waterfowl have tradionally been hunted are lousy with lead already.

50 posted on 03/18/2012 10:00:06 AM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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