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Murders in France: soldiers banned from wearing uniforms off base after attacks
France24 ^ | March 16 2012 | Staff

Posted on 03/16/2012 8:32:49 PM PDT by Cincinna

France on Friday banned soldiers stationed in the southwest from wearing uniform outside barracks after three paratroopers were shot dead in twin cold-blooded attacks.

"Security advice has been given, particularly at the entrances of military bases," an army spokesman told AFP, adding that soldiers "have notably been asked not to wear their uniform outside barracks".

The increased security measures apply to a whole swathe of the southwest, including Toulouse, Montauban, Pamiers and Tarbes, towns and cities that are home to most of France's elite airborne units. 

The announcement came as police hunted a black-clad gunman who on Thursday calmly shot three soldiers on a shopping street in garrison town Montauban, taking the time to turn one over to finish him off at close range.

Two of the victims -- parachute sappers aged 26 and 24 -- died on the spot and a third 28-year-old from the same regiment was in critical condition following the attack.

The soldiers were killed opposite their barracks, on a street named after the renowned 1st Shock Battalion. Their unit, the 17th Parachute Engineering Regiment, recently served in Afghanistan.

The attack followed a similar killing of a soldier from another airborne regiment four days earlier in Toulouse, a city 46 kilometres (29 miles) south of Montauban.

(Excerpt) Read more at france24.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; cheeseeaters; france; military; murder; muslims; surrendermonkeys

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families if the fallen paratroopers


*** FRENCH POLITICS AND CULTURE PING LIST ***


*** FREEPMAIL ME IF YOU WANT TO JOIN  ***


1 posted on 03/16/2012 8:33:00 PM PDT by Cincinna
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To: Cincinna

How awful!

RIP to the two fallen soldiers and thoughts and prayers for the surviving soldier’s recovery.


2 posted on 03/16/2012 8:37:43 PM PDT by DemforBush (A Repo man is *always* intense!)
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To: Cincinna; afraidfortherepublic; mojo114; seenenuf; LucyT; Think free or die; DollyCali; ...

   The latest is that all were shot with the same weapon, in different towns.
  All were French citizens; three were of North African origin, the other Caribbean. All serving on active duty with France’s elite parachute division stationed in Afghanistan.
   After the Mossad, the French Secret Service is the best there is. Hopefully they will solve this quickly, and prevent more incidents.
   So far, the speculation is that this was carefully planned, and the motivation might have been from extreme far right racist groups or extreme far left anti military groups. 


3 posted on 03/16/2012 8:38:43 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: Cincinna

Funny, never hear racism when a white person dies at the hand of a non-white. Keep the bs coming.


4 posted on 03/16/2012 8:57:19 PM PDT by TwoSwords
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To: Cincinna

“So far, the speculation is that this was carefully planned, and the motivation might have been from extreme far right racist groups or extreme far left anti military groups.”
*********************************************************

And of course there might be the slight possibility of (politically incorrect) scattered speculation that the motivation could have come from Islamists? I know, highly unlikely. More likely that it was done by an AMISH hit squad.


5 posted on 03/16/2012 9:00:08 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: Cincinna

Very interesting. Thanks for posting...(could it be another?)...

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/muslim-kills-soldier-wounds-another-at-arkansas-military-recruiting-center.html

...especially given the recent shootings by Afghan military against American servicemen.


6 posted on 03/16/2012 9:06:52 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: Cincinna

Tactically, this might be a wise move, but the authorities better wrap this up quickly, because public relations wise, they’re handing a victory to the perps — whoever they are.

“We scared them right out of their uniforms.”

If they thought the “cheese-eating-surrender-monkey” jokes were bad before, yeeeeesh!


7 posted on 03/16/2012 9:10:56 PM PDT by Ronin (Sarah.... We really need you now!)
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To: Cincinna

Hell of a way to lose good men. All free world military-and the press that covers them-will have to be wary in the future.


8 posted on 03/16/2012 9:14:04 PM PDT by tanuki (Left-wing Revolution: show biz for boring people.)
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To: TwoSwords

From an investigative point if view, what do these men have in common?
1. They were members of France’s elite Paratrooper unit stationed in Iraq.
2. Three were in military uniform, and Tge fourth had recently placed an ad in a local paper to sell his motor bike, specifying he was military.
3. They were all French citizens
4. Three were of North African origin, one of Caribbean (countries like Martinique and Guadeloupe are part of French DOM-TOM, and they are citizens if France.

This is not a trick question. These were not random acts, but coordinated and targeted.

So, before you call any criminal hypothesis BS, who dunnit and why?


9 posted on 03/16/2012 9:20:34 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: House Atreides

It could possibly be anti- military. There is very strong anti war feeling among the French.
The Islamic terrorist hypothesis is also possible, as all the fallen were members if the paratrooper unit fighting in Afghanistan.
I’ll keep you all posted.


10 posted on 03/16/2012 9:25:11 PM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: Cincinna

Who done it?

Muslims

Why?

Because they’re Muslims.

Result? The French Army will now surrender.

Why? Because they are led by pussies.


11 posted on 03/16/2012 9:25:40 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Cincinna

Answer my question first. When is a single white death a racist act, investigator? You epitomize the problem.


12 posted on 03/16/2012 9:30:35 PM PDT by TwoSwords
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To: Cincinna

Wouldn’t it make more sense to ARM THE SOLDIERS!
I mean really folks!

If taking them out of uniform is such a good idea, certainly dressing in skirts and wearing wigs would be absolutely brilliant.
Grow some already!


13 posted on 03/16/2012 9:30:41 PM PDT by bossmechanic (If all else fails, hit it with a hammer)
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To: Cincinna
Perhaps the French need to bring back the 1st Foreign Legion Parachute Regiment (1er REP). The 1er REP were some of the toughest and meanest fighters of the Algerian War (1952-1961). They were feared by the Algerian Muslims because of their ferociousness. The 1er REP was disbanded after it tried a putsch against the French government in April 1961. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Foreign_Parachute_Regiment:
14 posted on 03/16/2012 9:33:55 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: Cincinna

It would seem to me to be the act of Islamist terrorists operating in the south of France, IMHO.


15 posted on 03/16/2012 9:44:36 PM PDT by SatinDoll (No Foreign Nationals as our President!)
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To: TwoSwords

If they were North African and Carribean, it is quite possible the men were not white. When I visited Paris, I saw more than one millitary policeman at the airport and train stations that were most definately not white.

That being said, the most likely scenario in my mind is a muslim terror group taking the war in Afghanistan to the home front and targeting military persons. Of course, the far right wing in Europe is a real different animal than the far right here, so if these troops were not white, that could have been why they were targeted. And you cannot dimiss the hard core left being behind this, as Euro-commies have a long history and predisposition for using violence to make a statement. I would put the last two groups ata distant second if I am thinking about perpetrators and motivations, though.


16 posted on 03/16/2012 9:49:00 PM PDT by L,TOWM (Once you see that it is all Kabuki Theater, you are free to quit wasting your time on politics.)
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To: L,TOWM

That is not my question. Why when a white kills a non-white it’s racism but when a person of color kills a white racism isn’t mentioned?


17 posted on 03/16/2012 10:06:48 PM PDT by TwoSwords
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To: Cincinna
Three of these men were ‘North Africans’ which means they were Muslims or were brought up Muslims. The other was from the French West Indies and may have been a light skinned ‘black creole’ who looked like a ‘North African’. I would suspect this was a well planned assassination campaign by Muslims living in France who are delivering a message to the rather numerous Muslims in elite French combat units such as the Foreign Legion as to what their fate will be if they continue to serve the ‘infidel’ French government. This unit recently returned from Afghanistan where these men had been fighting their ‘Muslim brothers’ in the service of the infidel. That is a death sentence for a Muslim. This is a serious story and may betoken more such attacks aimed not just at Muslims recently returned from Afghanistan or Iraq but US/NATO soldiers in general. The Islamacists are present in all of western Europe and in the US. The SSGT Bales incident could give the Islamacists the pretext to act here.
18 posted on 03/16/2012 10:21:10 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: Cincinna

Simple solution.....give the soldiers sidearms and tell them not to leave their barracks alone. If these guys are
as elite as they are advertised and allowed to be armed the
bandit might take out one more of them but that would be the
end of his career.


19 posted on 03/16/2012 10:26:02 PM PDT by nvscanman
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To: L,TOWM; TwoSwords
the far right wing in Europe is a real different animal than the far right here, so if these troops were not white, that could have been why they were targeted.

Quite possible.

In support of your observation about seeing "policiers" in France who are not white, I would recall that story about a Jewish person at a soccer match in France, who was pursued by a group of French skinheads. A French policeman - who was black - took charge, and shot one of them dead.

Quite complicated politics of race in that scenario.

In these latest killings, it is notable that Sarkozy and others hastily said that the killings were 'not political.' They seem to know something about the background to events. Just speculating - my own view is that this is happening in a region with a very distinct culture. In the south, various types of vendettas and honor killings are well known. If some local has a grudge against the Paras, this might be his way of settling the score.

20 posted on 03/16/2012 11:35:20 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: TwoSwords
Why when a white kills a non-white it’s racism but when a person of color kills a white racism isn’t mentioned?

Because of political correctness ... now, on to the next question ...

21 posted on 03/16/2012 11:43:28 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: Cincinna

Thank you for this article, and please ping me to any more threads.

I wonder if the killer is Basque.

I don’t have any evidence at all to support this. It is just that those towns are all stamping grounds for Basque militants. And a Basque can always rely upon the suppport of their own community, no matter what they might have done. They melt back into their border villages, and sometimes cross the border to Spain.


22 posted on 03/16/2012 11:47:35 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: robowombat; Cincinna
Another detail is that apparently, in the case of the first killing in Toulouse, the Para was in civilian clothes. He was alone, and was shot dead at close range.

The first victim's name was Imad Ibn Ziaten, 30 years old and of Moroccan origins. He had recently put an ad in the paper, to sell his car (or motorcycle? "moto" in French) and in that ad he had identified himself as a member of military, in Toulouse, and told callers to ask for "Imad". Anyone reading that ad could work out that this is an Arab member of the Parachute regiment. It is considered possible that he was lured out to meet a potential "buyer."

23 posted on 03/17/2012 12:05:19 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: BlackVeil

Done!
I thought of a possible Basque connection myself.


24 posted on 03/17/2012 12:28:24 AM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: BlackVeil

Very good detective work. “Moto” is French slang for motorcycle.
Let’s hope this gets solved soon.


25 posted on 03/17/2012 12:33:24 AM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: BlackVeil

Vendetta...you may be correct. But I suspect this is Islamist terror activity to discourage young Muslim men or young men of color from joining the French military.


26 posted on 03/17/2012 1:15:10 AM PDT by SatinDoll (No Foreign Nationals as our President!)
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To: Cincinna
“Moto” is French slang for motorcycle

Many thanks - and the killer rides a motorcycle. What a chilling case.

The weapon, an automatic pistol 11.43mm, is said by Sud-Ouest to be ‘found in the milieu of organized crime’. It is not an ordinary gun. The killer dropped the charger at the scene of the crime, but an inspection found no trace of DNA – the charger had been totally cleaned. All this seems to indicate some careful planning. Those guns certainly have a reputation.

Back in 2007, Le Figaro, commenting on an outbreak of violence by crime gangs in Grenoble, commented that the weapon was “an automatic pistol 11.43mm the ‘signature’ of a settling of scores.”

http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20071102.FIG000000156_grenoble_s_enfonce_dans_la_guerre_des_gangs.html

But I think Basques might have them as well.

27 posted on 03/17/2012 1:48:02 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: bossmechanic

Indeed, indeed, wear dresses is what we want them to wear.

Liberal feminists are too incompetent and insecure to let any one of legit worth carry a gun. Many a leader out west would be in prison if it were not for nannization of the military.


28 posted on 03/17/2012 2:26:34 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: SatinDoll

What you say is quite possible, and I have been reading comments from the forum of the local newspaper. Some of the locals share your opinion.


29 posted on 03/17/2012 2:58:42 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: BlackVeil

That’s .45, presumably .45 ACP, AKA 11.43×23mm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

I wouldn’t think that a particularly common caliber in France.

I visited Nice a couple years ago and happened across a small guns/weapons shop and went in, looked around, and chatted briefly with the proprietor. He really had very, very little on hand, and was very envious of our gun laws.


30 posted on 03/17/2012 3:35:58 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: MasterGunner01
Was that what caused camouflaged uniforms to be banned inside of France? Because of the assassination attempt on DeGaulle?

My memory is that the Legion and Paras could not wear camouflage inside of France since the early 1960s.

31 posted on 03/17/2012 3:55:31 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Romney is a Mormon Bishop, as was his father, his uncle was in line to be the Mormon Prophet. Pope))
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To: ansel12

I saw camo BDU’s worn by military police, who were carrying assault rifles, walking the concourse at DeGaul airport in May 2001. The other military I saw in France were in greens and similarly equiped.


32 posted on 03/17/2012 8:50:18 AM PDT by L,TOWM (Once you see that it is all Kabuki Theater, you are free to quit wasting your time on politics.)
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To: BlackVeil; All

UPDATE:
from The Miami Herald:
Anti-terror police join probe into French shooting

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2695486/3-french-soldiers-shot-dead-on.html

Thank you all for your input.
“organized crime circles”
“regalement des comptes”
All interesting hypotheses. The most frightening would be the teaming up of Mafia and terrorist elements to target members of the French military who have been stationed in Afghanistan.
Which “local paper” are you referring to?
Montauban and Toulouse are in the SW of France.


33 posted on 03/17/2012 10:33:41 AM PDT by Cincinna ( *** NOBAMA 2012 ***)
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To: ansel12

That would be the reason. The OAS and their attempted coup.


34 posted on 03/17/2012 5:37:00 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: FreedomPoster

Thanks for those details, most informative. I believe that gun control is quite strict in France, although of course, those outside the law always manage to get weapons.


35 posted on 03/17/2012 5:53:47 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: Cincinna
I have been reading Sud Ouest, a regional paper. They have forums, which are moderated, and on a recent story about the para murders, one malcontent posted:

Le censeur de sud ouest est une merde astronomique.

A lot of posts appear then disappear. Lots of currents of opinion are running.

36 posted on 03/17/2012 5:56:51 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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