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How the Apostates Take Over, Part 1
Townhall.com ^ | March 18, 2012 | Michael Youssef

Posted on 03/18/2012 6:59:01 AM PDT by Kaslin

The evangelical church is under constant threat to compromise its reliance on biblical truth. The human desire to be accepted, to not be seen as “outside the mainstream,” can be overwhelming. But that desire is our weakness, our downfall. It does not always immediately destroy the dam we build to protect the waters of truth, but instead it leads to tiny fissures that grow until destruction is inevitable.

Twenty years ago, I experienced the painful demise of the Episcopal Church, who once was a bastion of biblical truth. It was not a pretty picture. It was a picture painted in the primary colors of relentlessness and deception.

The combination of those elements inevitably led some sincere folks to weariness, and willingness to compromise, and yes, ultimately to surrender. For those who sought peace at any price, conformity over conviction, and popularity over principle, capitulation seemed the easier way out.

The initial compromise, which caused the first cracks in the dike, seemed innocent enough at the time: the ordination of women.

But to truly understand how that initial compromise caused a wave of liberalism to overcome biblical boundaries within the Episcopal Church (and soon by the rest of the mainline denominations), we have to understand the different groups involved.

Sincere followers of Christ made up the first group. They believed in Jesus and the scriptures. To them, the effort to ordain women seemed genuine. But they ultimately bought into the secular argument that the ordination of women was merely an issue of equality, sharing power, responding to new realities, and gaining relevancy with modern culture. Those believers were most troublesome of all. Although they adhered to the secular perspective, no one could accuse them of having “departed the faith once delivered.”

The second group, which pushed the breached even further, was comprised of people who were religious but biblically illiterate. They followed a simple faith not rooted in history. They were more willing to follow than to think.

The third group was made up of committed liberals, or as I prefer to call them, apostates. That group often worked behind the scenes. They hid in the shadows, preferring to steer the second group forward while putting pressure on the first group. They fueled the secular media with proclamations that the church was “hopelessly out of touch with the real world” or that the “male-dominated church is unwilling to share power with women.”

The media—which loves to denigrate the church and its leadership for refusing to adhere to a godless culture—used its powerful megaphone to condemn the church. Of course, the media never understood that ministry in the Church of Jesus Christ is not about power. A pastor models himself after Jesus, who “did not come to be served, but to serve.”

When apostate Christians and agnostics were allowed to set the agenda and define the arguments, the faint of heart self-consciously sought to surrender. Quickly abandoned were Martin Luther’s words: “Here I stand. I can do no other.”

The ordination of women was not the end of the road—not by any means. Those who had stood up for adherence to biblical standards knew all too well that the push for compromise was merely a prelude to a long hidden agenda: extreme feminism, abortion rights, homosexual advocacy, and the tolerance of all sorts of unsavory practices within the church.

Back then, I watched and wept over the first group; they were my comrades in arms, and they surrendered their birthright for a morsel of peace and acceptability. They surrendered their birthright, and before long, the cracks in the dam led to its massive collapse.

When communities in the Bible rejected the disciples, Jesus instructed his followers to shake the dust off their feet and move on. He did not instruct them to compromise in order to avoid rejection. He told them that rejection would be part of the deal.

Countless followers of Jesus, from those first disciples to today’s martyrs, have ultimately given their lives rather than compromise. That same courage is expected of us as well.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: apostates; episcopalchurch; feminism; liberalism; michaelyoussef

1 posted on 03/18/2012 6:59:02 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

The disease that kills all freedoms, be it religion or individual rights.

You think it’s bad now, wait until Romney either insures Obama’s reelection victory or personally finishes us off if he is elected.

We have no one to represent us on earth or in heaven.


2 posted on 03/18/2012 7:14:56 AM PDT by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: Kaslin
Once more to the breach, dear friends, I beseech!
The Episcopal Bishop harangued,
For heaven awaits who broaches these gates,
And all Biblical scruples be hanged!

3 posted on 03/18/2012 7:19:43 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Kaslin

“Courage is the foundation of all the other virtues.”


4 posted on 03/18/2012 8:02:04 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Kaslin
"For those who sought peace at any price, conformity over conviction, and popularity over principle, capitulation seemed the easier way out."

Sad but these are the principles I see all over the growth movement. Apply the formula that brings them in, keep them happy and by all means don't offend anyone with the Rock of Offense himself. The gospel is divisive or it's not the gospel but "another gospel" that Paul condemns as anathema.

5 posted on 03/18/2012 8:17:18 AM PDT by strongbow
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To: Kaslin

“The initial compromise, which caused the first cracks in the dike, seemed innocent enough at the time: the ordination of women. “

It wouldn’t seem innocent to me; it directly denies Scriptural instruction. There is no question that the Bible allows only men to be apostles/elders/bishops, the instructions are plain and repeated frequently and easy to understand.

The question is, are we going to obey the instructions or cast them out like yesterday’s news?


6 posted on 03/18/2012 8:56:06 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Persevero

“There is no question that the Bible allows only men to be apostles/elders/bishops, the instructions are plain...”

Interesting. I’d like to read for myself. Can you point me to where the bible plainly instructs us that only men should be apostles/elders/bishops?


7 posted on 03/18/2012 9:53:55 AM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: Owl558

1st Titus 1, on appointing elders:

5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— 6 if a MAN is blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop[b] must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.

1st Cor 14:34

Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.

There are more but those are two main ones.


8 posted on 03/18/2012 9:59:57 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Persevero

“Let your women keep silent in the churches...”

I agree that women should not be ordained clergy; but just as a footnote, the first part above actually probably refers to conduct during a service. In those days, men and women were seated apart (in synagogues) and the meaning is likely for the women not to call out to their husbands if they don’t understand something, but to keep quiet and not disturb the service.


9 posted on 03/18/2012 11:00:16 AM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: Kaslin
WOW... thanks for posting this. He is exactly right this business of women preachers didnt come from belivers or adherants wanting to comform to the the Bible or the practices of early church but to those who said we have got to have the approval of the world. Again WOW!
10 posted on 03/18/2012 11:53:50 AM PDT by djone
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To: djone
He is exactly right this business of women preachers didnt come from belivers or adherants wanting to comform to the the Bible or the practices of early church but to those who said we have got to have the approval of the world.

While appearing to express the position of the article, this statement isn't true.

Any and every believer is to be a witness who ministers the gospel. No differentiation between male or female in this regards.

Women may also teach Scripture academically. No problem there.

Not every believer has the spiritual gift of Pastor-Teacher or of Evangelism. These are very real spiritual gifts, not soulish gifts. Every believer receives gifts upon receipt of salvation, but not all spiritual gifts include the communication spiritual gift of Pastor-Teacher, or of another communication spiritual gift of Evangelism.

Both which are recorded in Scripture as having been given to some men. No women are recorded as having these gifts.

In regards to the business having come or not come from believers is irrelevant. It might very well have come from believers. A believer out of fellowship with God by having sinned and not confessed that sin remains out of fellowship with God until he returns to God on God's terms. Some of the most antiChristian acts, behaviors, and beliefs come from believers not in fellowship with God. This is why some believers are known to have committed very heinous crimes, such as mass murder, or serial killing.

What does matter is that in God's Plan, He provides for teaching of believers by the the spiritual gift of Pastor-Teacher given to some men and He provides for the communication of the Gospel to unbelievers also by the spiritual gift of evangelism.

Most believers don;t know what their spiritual gifts are and unfortunately too many churches have mistaken the worldly leadership offices as simply being soulish positions void the spiritual action of God the Holy Spirit communicating to the Pastor how, when, what, why, and who to preach to in their messages.

A believer learning the Word should seek out the Pastor-Teacher God has provided for them. As soon as one sees a woman in the pulpit claiming the office of Pastor, it is obvious even in a soulish perspective that the person lacks the academic background to understand the gift, but instead is likely guided by some form of arrogance seeking worldly approbation for their desires, instead of walking by God's Plan.

11 posted on 03/18/2012 12:37:03 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Owl558; Persevero; Kaslin; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name; wmfights; ...

There is no question that the Bible allows only men to be apostles/elders/bishops, the instructions are plain...”

Interesting. I’d like to read for myself. Can you point me to where the bible plainly instructs us that only men should be apostles/elders/bishops?

This is a subject of contention in which the historical position is less popular, but here goes. First, for more of my examination of this subject by God's grace see here. For substantiation on the sanction of the practice of female pastors within Protestantism being a recent development, and for more on 1Cor. 14:35 as i likely somewhat imperfectly see it, see here.

As for your polemic, if by "plainly" you mean a verse that states plainly "only men shall be ordained apostles/elders/bishops," then you will find it right next to the verse that states, "though shall not marry fish" or the “thou shalt not engage in the practice of consensual cannibalism.”

The point being that if even these prohibitions can be warranted derivations, then how much more is the rule of male leadership, when Scripture only has them ordained as O.T. priests, and as apostles/elders/bishops in the New, and distinctly requires general silence of women in the assembly as regards giving the word of God in the church, occupying the office of a teacher, and straightly forbids women having authority over men, by principle and precept, and thus the aforementioned type of greater explicitness is not needed.

Likewise, while scripture does not explicitly forbid marrying fish (it forbids bestiality, but the word for beast is never used for fish, to my knowledge), and it only describes and sanctions marriage between opposite genders.(Gn. 2:18,24; Mt. 19:4,5)

Nor does Scripture plainly forbid consensual cannibalism, like “you have me for dinner if i die first.” But as it only provides as food beast of the earth, and fowl of the air, and fishes of the sea and fruit and veggies for food, (Gn. 9:2,3) and never sanctions eating the flesh of men (while cannibalism metaphorically used in the negative sense of Israel's enemies: Ps. 27:2), then a general prohibition of cannibalism is warranted.

However, as the law is meant to save lives and not destroy them, (Lk. 6:9) and food itself is not sin, then in case of dire need cannibalism of the already dead (by natural causes) - as in the case of the Andes survivors - might be allowed.

Likewise while female authority over men is contrary to the rule of God, yet there can be exceptions, to the shame of men who would not lead, as in the case of Deborah in the period of Israel's declension. But exceptions do not make the rule.

Nor is the women excluded from ministry, as they are are part of the team, but the male is to be the quarterback.

Moreover, when a covenantal distinction or important departure from the norm does exist then the norm in revelation is that the Holy Spirit makes it manifest.

Primary texts which support only male leadership in the family and the church are:


12 posted on 03/18/2012 12:38:57 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: Cvengr
Sorry you may have read into what I said but I didnt say women could not preach or teach because they clearly can. In the new testament women had church in their homes, they prophecied, they were in the upper room when the spirit fell on them as it did on the men but the job of pastor I think is for men. We are all one in Jesus: there is no Jew nor Greek male nor female. Here however Paul said man was first in creation then woman was created and so by in this physical world a man should lead the church in the Lords chain of comand ..... This isnt to be mean but His order of things....
13 posted on 03/18/2012 1:16:16 PM PDT by djone
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To: daniel1212

“As for your polemic, if by “plainly” you mean a verse that states plainly “only men shall be ordained apostles/elders/bishops,” then you will find it right next to the verse that states, “though shall not marry fish” or the “thou shalt not engage in the practice of consensual cannibalism.” “

The directions for ordaining men only as elders are not near any verses about fish or cannibalism.


14 posted on 03/18/2012 2:39:35 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: CondorFlight

“just as a footnote, the first part above actually probably refers to conduct during a service. In those days, men and women were seated apart (in synagogues) and the meaning is likely for the women not to call out to their husbands if they don’t understand something, but to keep quiet and not disturb the service.”

Why not give the same directions to men, then, so that they didn’t call across the aisle?


15 posted on 03/18/2012 2:43:39 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: DH
We have no one to represent us on earth or in heaven.

? is this the logical end of protestant thinking?

16 posted on 03/18/2012 2:53:13 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (knowledge puffeth; information deludeth.)
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To: DH
We have no one to represent us on earth or in heaven.

? is this the logical end of protestant thinking?

17 posted on 03/18/2012 2:53:32 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (knowledge puffeth; information deludeth.)
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To: Persevero

Nearness is irrelevant; the issue is principles of exegesis, with the argument being that the kind of “plain” explicit statement that the poster seems to demand is not necessary, in the light of what the precepts and principle behind them provides.


18 posted on 03/18/2012 2:57:38 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: the invisib1e hand

That is hardly classic Protestant thinking, as it holds that Scripture is the only assuredly infallible material authority, and thus the supreme standard for obedience and testing truth claims, and materially providing for the church;

The authenticity of which was and is based upon Scriptural substantiation and the manner of supernatural attestation it affirms being given to Truth and men of God. To the glory of almighty God.

Now may i and we who believe better attest to His reality myself.


19 posted on 03/18/2012 3:09:47 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: daniel1212

‘course there couldn’t be Protestants if there weren’t scripture (or, for the matter, a Catholic Church) but I think that point is too sublime for many.


20 posted on 03/18/2012 4:20:52 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (knowledge puffeth; information deludeth.)
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To: Owl558
Interesting. I’d like to read for myself. Can you point me to where the bible plainly instructs us that only men should be apostles/elders/bishops?

1 Timothy 2:12-15 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Not very popular today, but there it is in black and white and Paul even gives the reason behind it; because women are more susceptible to deception than men are.

21 posted on 03/18/2012 4:29:41 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

It is there, but its easy to “not see” the speed limit when you want to speed.


22 posted on 03/18/2012 7:32:39 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: the invisib1e hand; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name

The problem with RCs, is that Scripture is not the supreme authority, nor can is provide doctrinal certitude, but the self-proclaimed assuredly infallible magisterium is (sola ecclessia) presumes that position, although their interpretation of what is infallible and what it means is not assuredly infallible, nor is the sola scripturists interpretation of Scripture.

But rather than the church establishing what Scripture consists of by decree (which Rome did not infallibly, indisputable do until the year Luther died), as helpful as they can be, writings became established as being Divine, like as men of God became established as being such, by their Heavenly qualities and attestation, and conformity to established truth. To the glory of God. “For the kingdom of God is not in word [self-proclamation], but in power. “ (1 Corinthians 4:20)


23 posted on 03/18/2012 7:50:48 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: daniel1212; Owl558; Persevero; Kaslin; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name
Great post.

Let me add a different thought to the discussion. The writer is making a fundamental error in thinking that the demise of Biblical Christianity among the European Protestant churches is a decline in Biblical Christianity. However, Evangelical Christians are growing in number throughout Asia, Africa and in Central and South America. Also, as the European Protestant Churches have declined in America we have seen Biblically centered non-denominational and Pentecostal churches growing.

24 posted on 03/18/2012 8:04:42 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: wmfights

True, but i think the old time Prots which saw revival would weep at the condition of the modern temple-even the evangelical one. We have lost much.


25 posted on 03/18/2012 10:01:48 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: daniel1212
True, but i think the old time Prots which saw revival would weep at the condition of the modern temple-even the evangelical one. We have lost much.

But have we?

I see the same historical pattern being repeated. Prior to the Reformation we saw the development of a hierarchy, using the power of the State to impose it's will. During this period there were Christians who refused to be a part of the State church, but they were limited in number, until Bibles became easily accessible. However, once Bibles became easy to obtain the deviance of the State church from clear Scriptural teaching became obvious and Christians left that church. Now instead of Christians fleeing a State imposed religious system they are fleeing churches that are clearly not in step with Scripture.

So who is left behind in this process? I think it is those who place to great an affection for an institution, or family tradition. The Christians are reading their Bibles and see how their church has deviated from truth and are leaving. It seems to me it's a long process that keeps being repeated. For me I don't worry to much about these old church bodies. They had the truth and in their arrogance decided they knew better.

26 posted on 03/19/2012 7:32:19 AM PDT by wmfights
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To: metmom

Thank you metmom, and others, I wasn’t familiar with this verse.


27 posted on 03/19/2012 9:40:30 AM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: metmom
Amen. There are precious few pastors that will preach or teach on this subject, for fear of losing members.

I just left a very large Southern Baptist church that will not ordain women, but its committees have been taken over by women, to the point that the deacon ministry has been relegated to disbursing benevolence funds.

At its 25 anniversary, one of the founding members cheerfully stated that they wanted a “moderate” Southern Baptist church in the local area. Well, they succeeded.

28 posted on 03/25/2012 7:16:14 AM PDT by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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