Skip to comments.New Details Emerge Showing George Zimmerman Wasn't Defending Himself When He Shot Trayvon Martin
Posted on 03/18/2012 4:35:27 PM PDT by redreno
According to new details, Sanford police are being accused of altering the statements of witnesses to the incident when Trayvon Martin was shot by neighborhood crime watch captain George Zimmerman.
17 year old Trayvon Martin has been walking back from a local 7-11 with snacks for himself and his father in Sanford during the NBA All Star Game on Feb 26th, when he was following by a car being driven by George Zimmerman, who did call the police non-emergency number to report a suspicious person. According the the recordings, Zimmerman stated the person was suspicious because he was wearing a hoodie and walking too slow in his opinion in the rain.
During the phone call to police he was recorded as saying, "these a..holes always get away."
(Excerpt) Read more at thefloridanewsjournal.com ...
You must have been listening to CNN tonight.
We had a guy with this mentality in my CHL class. Charles Bronson fantasies to the nth degree. They do exist.
I read that Zimmerman has a concealed carry permit...patiently waiting for the anti-gun crowd to use this one isolated incident for political gain.
they were fighting, on the ground with the youth on top. Zimmerman had a head would and bleeding from the nose. Was there a struggle for the gun? Was zimmerman in fear of further severe head injury? etc etc
They do exist.
I will wait to see the court case. It should go before a court. Just like when a cop shoots or tazes or beats a citizen under questionable circumstances. This case should go to court.
Without a doubt. However, I’m not a court of law and therefor I’m allowed judge guilt or innocence in my own mind long before a trial. Everything I’ve seen or read thus far leads me to believe that this kid died for nothing. Should I turn out to be wrong, I’ll be happy to say so.
I am wondering how long it will take for Holder/Obama to make this into a national political issue
I am wondering how Mr. Zimmerman is going to explain how he stopped the "yute" and ended up getting engaged in a fight. A police officer has to have reasonable suspicion of a crime before he can detain somebody.
Imagine if you were a teenager walking home from the 7-11 and a person, that wasn't a cop, jumped out of his car and told you to stop. My kids have been trained to think that guy is a child molester.
We’re hearing the 9-1-1 calls on the Orlando stations with every news broadcast. If I was sitting on a jury he’d be toast. This guy is gonna need a helluva lawyer to get out of this one. And that neighborhood watch is going to need a serious overhaul.
It gets better. The boy was tested for drugs and alcohol - negative. Mr. Zimmerman was not tested.
Stand your ground doesn’t allow you to follow someone then get out of your car and shoot them.
It’s my understanding that he wasn’t a member of any formal neighborhood watch. He basically was his own, self-appointed one-man watch.
As long as you didn't provoke or invite the conflict, you have no duty to retreat from a life-threatening conflict. Legally you may stand your ground and kill the aggressor. (State v. Helm, 209 P.2d 187 (1990))In this case it is clear from the pictures and the audio track being played over and over that they boy was not the aggressor and that he was the one begging for help.
This clown could end up setting back gun rights but it the meanwhile he is bringing the race-pimp circus to town and damned if they don't have a reason this time.
I’m all for self defense, but this Zimmerman sounds like he was trigger happy. He deliberately disregarded the 9-11 operator and started a confrontation with a teenager just because he was wearing a hoodie and walking in the rain. The victim was buying candy. I didn’t realize that was a crime.
Liberals have cried racism and law enforcement misconduct when it didn’t apply for so long, it’s hard to tell the false from the true at first. But those thinigs still do happen and this appears to be one of those cases.
It seems to me anyone who's driving a car and tries to stop someone without benefit of a uniform and badge is going to get a fight. One reason I don't think undercover cops should ever be allowed to arrest anyone, arrests should always be made by uniformed officers. Undercover is for collecting intel, nothing more.
A police officer has to have reasonable suspicion of a crime before he can detain somebody.
This guy has a recorded telephone converstation with cops, which will make it easier to figure out the truth of what happened in court. He does not have the protection of the Union, fellow cop liars and he has the Klan with a Tan chasing him with a noose.
It sounds like there is enough of a problem that it should go to court. What, do you want him hanged in the street by the klan with a tan?
Sounds like the black kid was chased down and shot after a struggle. The white dude IMO committed murder or at least manslaughter.
But this story is still young so more info may come out to help Zimmerman. Cant imagine what it could be though.
The AP is also pushing this angle. Does anyone doubt that AP will attempt to put the worst spin they can on a CCW holder's actions?
I do not know exactly what happened, but the police have repeatedly said that the physical evidence has been consistent with the self defense account that Zimmerman gave.
To come to another conclusion requires a significant conspiracy theory. Consider that the police are under intense pressure to be politically correct.
About 30 years ago I was a twitch away from having my head blown off by a cop.
Visiting my parents in SW Colorado and walked over to the nearby 7-11. There had been a mass escape from the NM penitentiary and I closely matched the description (white, brown hair, average height, stocky build, T-shirt, jeans) of one of the suspects who had murdered a convenience store clerk earlier that day about 50 miles away. Of course, so did probably at least a million men in the country.
I had a paperback book making a bulge in my hip pocket. I was standing looking at the magazines and the poor girl behind the counter thought the bulge was a gun and I was waiting for the others in the store to leave so I could rob and kill her.
The bell on the door rang as new customers entered, but I wasn’t paying attention. Suddenly I had something cold against my neck (shotgun barrel) and a couple of cops grabbed me. Had I jumped or twitched I would have been dead.
Nobody’s fault, the (by then hysterical) clerk had every reason to believe I was the guy, the cops did what they should have. I wasn’t doing anything wrong at all but still could have wound up dead on the floor.
One reason such confrontations should be left to those with training. They don’t always do it right, but they’re more likely to do so than random citizens, especially those with Rambo or Death Wish type fantasy lives.
If the tapes are being played over the radio, I bet they are being heavily edited.
This reminds me of the Rodney King incident all over again.
I do not see any incentive for the police to cover for Zimmerman. What do they possibly have to gain?
You cannot start a fight and then say you feared for your life. Dang. The kid did not come up to the thug and drag him out of his car.
The police have said, several times, that all the physical evidence is consistent with George Zimmerman's story.
It seems that Traynor Martin's family is working very hard to come up with a reason and a scenario that could indicate that George Zimmerman killed Traynor for no real reason.
I can not see any reason for the police to create a conspiracy in favor of George Zimmerman.
Traynor did not have to drag him out of the car to attack him. So far, we do not have any evidence that George did any more than follow him and talk to him before being attacked.
Is it possible that George Martin instigated the attack? Sure, it is possible. We simply do not have any evidence that it happened that way.
If you chase after someone and get into said fight. Does the rules of self defense come into play?
You’re spinning this thread so fast its making me dizzy
Here is a version of Zimmerman’s account that has surfaced on the net. Is it inconsistent with the 911 calls?
by andyinga March 13, 2012 3:22 PM EDT
This is not the real story. George called 911 to report a suspicious person. As he got off the phone the kid attacked him and started beating the crap out of him and slamming his head against the walkway. All the while saying youre gunna die tonight motherfxxxxx George was screaming help when someone in a nearby apartment called 911 again. Georges shirt came up while the kid was beating him, revealing the gun that he is licensed to carry. The kid went for the gun and they struggled for it, George ended up shooting the kid and saving his own life. All these people on yahoo saying that he should be in jail when they dont even know what happened. George is the brother-in-law of one of our good family friends, works with my parents, and is one of the nicest most gentle people you will ever meet. Hes completely devastated that this happened and has barely been functional from the guilt. No one shoots someone for no reason, and especially not George. And they need to stop pulling the race card, George is hispanic, not white.
And neither do you, is george you friend, since you seem to be on first name terms with him. And you still do know know if your friend george was attack, but we do know your friend george made the first provoking move by getting out of his car.
Sorry, I thought I was unspinning it. Lots of spin just in the original headline.
Does anyone think it is impossible that Traynor Martin attacked without legal justification?
Does anyone think it impossible that George Zimmerman provoked Traynor Martin?
When we have two scenarios put forward for what happened, we have people we call police to gather the evidence and determine, at first cut, what story is consistent with the evidence.
In this case, we really have only one story, that of George Zimmerman. Traynor Martin is dead and cannot give his side of the story.
It was at night and the police were on the scene in minutes. Zimmerman was bleeding from the face and the back of the head.
It is hard to quickly come up with a fake story that fits the physical evidence at night when the police are there in minutes.
Could the police be in a conspiracy with George Zimmerman? I suppose it is possible, but I fail to see what they could possibly gain from it. In fact, they are under intense pressure to be politicaly correct and come up with evidence to charge him with.
The case will likely go before a Grand Jury, and that is probaly a good thing.
Add to that the fact that I haven't seen an objective, truthful AP or MSM article on 2A, CCW, guns, conservatives, Black race baiting, or Black on White crime in as long as I can remember.
It is interesting that several FReepers are not interested in the examination of all this media leaked "evidence" in court, their own expertise assures Zimmerman's guilt, and the cops are undoubtedly crooked and racist.
But I suppose we must defer to those more educated and enlightened than us. Like the faculty and administration of Duke, the entire Black student body, the unusually honest prosecutor Nifong and his investigators, and the entire MSM including AP that uncovered the evidence against those racist white punks.
Yeah, we don't need a trial, there's no chance of jackpot justice here.
Sure it is, when the physical evidence only really corroborates the fact that there was a physical altercation of some sort. The physical evidence doesn't tell you, one way or the other, who started the fight or why. For that, you need to look at other evidence. In this case, the other evidence includes (1) 911 tapes that show, among other things, Zimmerman disregarding the 911 operator's instruction not to follow Martin; (2) the fact that Zimmerman was armed, and Martin was not; and (3) a total lack of any indication that Martin was involved in any criminal activity.
This article is commie crap.
You have a way with words.
What we do not have is a list of the physical evidence or a transcript of George Zimmerman's story.
What we do have is the police saying that the story and the evidence are consistent.
It is possible that more evidence will become available.
There is a lot of speculation that Zimmerman provoked Martin, but no real evidence for it.
I believe that I misspelled Trayvon’s name as Traynor in previous posts.
One reason that evil leftists lie so much is because they want decent people to waste their time explaining why commie lies aren't true.
I don't fall for that.
When ignorant, irrational, stupid or dishonest things are posted I identify them as such and move on.
Occasionally when FReepers seem to have unwittingly gulped the commie poison I will do them the personal favor of explaining in detail why their posts are evil crap.
Again, that is the exception.
If you genuinely cannot understand that the posted article is evil garbage then you have problems too great for me to solve for you from here.
Self defense? You honestly think this kid attacked this guy?
If that is the shooter's statement then - guilty!!! He called the initial report from his car and was told not to intervene. The boy did not pull the guy out of his car. George's recorded statement about the "blank always get away" gives us his state of mind. The reports have the fight happening between the houses, one guy saying it was near his screened in patio. That means there was pursuit. I'd say it would be a righteous shoot if the KID shot the vigilante given the facts that have now surfaced. I'm pretty sure (albeit lacking my own voice analysis machine) and it is being consistently reported that the call for help is from the kid, not Zimmerman.
Look, we're only the court of public opinion and yes, the news outlets are making the most of this but with the time that has past and the raw evidence in the public domain, this appears to be one time where the cry of racism seems pretty clearly justified. I do not say that lightly.
I know this septuagenerian isn't going to leave a safe car to confront a teen FTF -- and I'm always armed...
It’s not what you know, it’s what a jury is compelled to believe. As far as I know, a neighborhood watch captain is not commissioned to detain someone or interrogate them. His job is to report the person to the police and let them handle it.
Was it self-defense? Yes, in that he feared for his life. But, the prosecution is going to have a field day pointing out that he set the event into motion by following someone who had not, to that point, done anything wrong.
A CCW holder may not start or escalate a situation.
He doesn’t have to spin the thread. The compliant media and their cop hating allies on FR do that well enough on their own.
Zimmerman is getting railroaded. Many, many blacks in Sanford. It’s ridiculous to think the Sanford PD would cover for a neighborhood watch guy because he is white and the dead guy black, yet that sort of thinking is all the rage here.
Sharpton is due anyday so the circus will soon be a fiasco. I’m sure the DOJ will be with him, licking his ass the whole way. The “funny” part is that even Zimmerman’s father has pointed out that Zimmerman is not “white but Hispanic” who has close relatives that are of mixed race. He says it’s ludicrous that his son would be chasing after a black guy because he was black. And yet we’ll continue down the race road until George Zimmerman is thrown to the wolves. That should be any time now.
I do not have all the evidence. None of us does. The police say the physical evidence is consistent with George Zimmerman's story. It seems more likely to me that Zimmerman was attacked than that he attacked.
I see that he is being lynched in the press without any real evidence.
Do you honestly think this guy just shot Trayvon without being attacked?
What this comes down to, I think, is whose story do you believe?
Young men between 15 and 25 tend to be very aggressive.
Trayvon was suspended from school for a week. That is why he was in that development with his father. Maybe he was suspended for drawing a picture of a gun. I do not know. His father refuses to tell anyone why he was suspended.
I know that lots of people have been attacked by young men for "looking at them wrong" or "disrespecting them".
Again, the only story that we have is George Zimmerman's. The police say that it is consistent with the physical evidence. We may not torture Zimmerman to make him change his story.
Zimmerman could have been aggressive and provoked Martin. There is just no evidence to show it.
“Self defense? You honestly think this kid attacked this guy?”
It’s quite possible the kid might have thrown the first punch, which would be the prudent thing to do when a stranger dressed in street clothes who has 100 pounds on you follows you in his car and then gets out and approaches you. A lot of men, myself included, would probably perceive Zimmerman as a threat and hit him as he approached. THAT is self defense.
Initiating a conflict with an unarmed kid when specifically instructed not to do so by police, and then shooting the kid is NOT self defense, it’s murder.
Precisely what I was getting at.
“Again, the only story that we have is George Zimmerman’s.”
Yeah, and the reason for that is that Zimmerman killed Martin. This means that Zimmerman’s story should be regarded with more suspicion, not less just because his is the only story.
“Zimmerman could have been aggressive and provoked Martin. There is just no evidence to show it.”
What are you talking about? It is not disputed that Zimmerman followed Martin in his car and then got out and approached him. That in itself, when done by anyone other than a police officer, is aggressive and provocative behavior. We don’t know if the kid tried to run or stood his ground and fought, but either way, he did nothing wrong and Zimmerman is still a murderer. The facts speak for themselves. Maybe Zimmerman just wanted to “detain” him but he had no legal authority to do so and the kid would have been perfectly justified to see him as a threat.
What could he possibly have yelled to Martin as he got out of his car that would not have identified him as a threat? “Freeze, Neighborhood Watch”?
Also, Zimmerman is 28 while Martin was 17 and 100 pounds lighter. Is Zimmerman that much of a wimp that he wouldn’t have been able to handle a kid in a physical confrontation without shooting him?
He obviously is paranoid and wanted to justify his paranoia by "catching" the kid at something. When the kid leaves the road, Zimmerman has to get out of his car and takes off after the kid. Upon confronting the kid, he starts to get his fat butt kicked and then pulls his gun rather than take the beating.
I think everyone here needs to step back one step from the final confrontation scene and look back in time as to why Zimmerman got out of his car. There was no crime in progress that Zimmermna witnessed and Zimmerman was not confronting the youth to save an innocent bystander.
He's going to do a lot of time for this shooting and well he should.
You are simply wrong in your understanding of what is justifiable under the law, and what is not. Mere words alone are not justification for self defense.
In a public area, it is perfectly legal to follow someone and ask them questions. It is not provocation for a physical attack.
If you attack someone who then legitimately feels that their life is threatened, they may use deadly force to protect themselves.
A dispatcher is not "the police" and their advise is not legally binding. If anyone believes that I am incorrect in this, I will gladly look at evidence to the contrary. They are not on the scene and can only offer advise.
How do you know he tried to stop him. He called the cops and was following him. Is it against the law to follow someone? For the sake of argument, let’s say the kid saw the guy following him, got mad, and attacked the guy. During the struggle, the kid tried to grab the gun the guy was legally allowed to carry. Would Zimmerman have the right of self defense in this case?
They have to be really good these days with dash camera and POV cameras on the officers.
The hurdle Mr. Zimmerman is going to have to jump is pretty high. He is going to have to explain how he got from in his car talking to the police on the phone, to a physical confrontation where he shot a minor feet from the father's residence. If he told the kid to stop and the kid kept walking, Zimmerman doesn't have any legal authority to try to stop him. We will have to see what comes out from the 911 transcripts.