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China Carrier Preps for Flight Ops?
The Diplomat ^ | March 19, 2012 | David Axe

Posted on 03/19/2012 9:35:06 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

China Carrier Preps for Flight Ops?

Photos posted to the Internet in China last week seem to confirm that the Chinese Navy has installed arrestor gear and other vital equipment on its refurbished Soviet-made aircraft carrier, the ex-Varyag. If genuine, the installations could represent a big step forward for the first-ever seaborne, fixed-wing aviation capability for the People's Liberation Army Navy.

One image appears to show a traditional four-wire arrangement on the aft flight deck of the roughly 1,000-foot-long carrier. Another depicts a small tractor of the type used to move aircraft around the deck.

The ex-Varyag, which was speculated to have been renamed the Shi Lang in Chinese service, underwent more than a decade of rework in Dalian shipyard following her acquisition from Russia in the late 1990s. She conducted her first sea trial in July and performed a second, brief, at-sea test in November. These tests didn't include fixed-wing aircraft. Indeed, much of the equipment necessary to support airplanes apparently had apparently not been installed.

In December, a Chinese government spokesman denied rumors that Russia had refused to sell China arresting gear. The ex-Varyag's deck equipment was being developed indigenously, the spokesman said.

The wires and the tractor should allow the ex-Varyag to begin flight trials with navalized J-15 fighters as early as this spring – assuming, of course, that other requisite gear has also been installed, including air-traffic-control radars, communications, aircraft fueling and repair facilities.

Even with all that equipment in place, it could take years for China to train aviators and deck crew to safely and efficiently launch, recover and maintain carrier-based aircraft. Coo

(Excerpt) Read more at the-diplomat.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arresterwire; carrier; china; navair; varyag


1 posted on 03/19/2012 9:35:16 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki; Jeff Head; Yo-Yo
Future "Sea Dragon" Ping.
2 posted on 03/19/2012 9:52:52 AM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Photos posted to the Internet in China last week seem to confirm that the Chinese Navy has installed arrestor gear...

Whatever.....

...Which deck has the Slot Machines?

3 posted on 03/19/2012 9:53:19 AM PDT by Mr. Quarterpanel (I am not an actor, but I play one on TV)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
thx, for the post. :-)
looks like the HMS Invincible

4 posted on 03/19/2012 9:56:57 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Simple: Kill the terrorists, Protect (all) the borders, ridicule all the (surviving) Liberals :^)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Photos posted to the Internet in China last week seem to confirm that the Chinese Navy has installed arrestor gear

The arrestor wires would've gone completely unnoticed if the crew hadn't started hanging their laundry from it.

5 posted on 03/19/2012 10:06:28 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: sukhoi-30mki

This is interesting,, but there is a brutal learning curve and an experience level that will be nearly impossible for them to duplicate (or even come close) to the USN Carrier effectiveness.

To put it in perspective, the USA has fielded about 70 large carriers, and about 250 CVL, and CVE light carriers for about 80 years. They fought the Carriers in WWII, Korea and Vietnam with almost unbelievable operational tempo,, in conditions too varied to list in the Cold war. In Desert Storm, 6 carriers gereated about 35% of the sorties. And they have been in almost nonstop war for the last decade.

I -almost- wish the Chinese well, while shaking my head at the tragic accidents almost certainly headed their way.

Maybe they will find use for it in anti-pirate patrol,,etc. But it would nearly be like infanticide for them to confront the US carriers or SSNs with it.


6 posted on 03/19/2012 10:07:08 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

[ it could take years for China to train aviators and deck crew to safely and efficiently launch, recover and maintain carrier-based aircraft. ]

China collective could care less about safety..or the health of their seamen..
China is a communist givernment.. a collective, a HIVE...
They have lots of drones to man the carrier..

The author is confusing China with a western country..
The Chinese givernment OWNS the carrier AND the people that will man it..
So a few of them get chopped in half; SO WHAT?..
To China, carriers, air planes and people are all machines.. Expendable..


7 posted on 03/19/2012 10:17:37 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: hosepipe
Bingo...you captured my very thoughts. In the US military, one training fatality brings everything to a halt until a determination is made as to how it occurred and what steps need to be implemented to prevent it from happening again.

In the Chinese military, one training fatality results in another soldier being ordered to take the place of the deceased.

8 posted on 03/19/2012 10:22:40 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: DesertRhino

There is a reason the US is the only nation to possess those 100,000 ton nuclear carriers.


9 posted on 03/19/2012 10:22:58 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
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To: DesertRhino

DITTO! China’s main tool to confront the US is not military. Look up www.globalfirepower.com. China is a distant third in military power compared to US however her financial power is another story. Her foreign reserves plus assets is about 2600 trillion dollars while the US can muster only 150 trillion. Guess what China will use to cut us down, money!!!! If one understands China’s military strategy, it is simply they will take their time. Look at the pace compared to the Soviet Union during the Cold War. China is making improvements but taking her time to do it. Without firing a shot the US growing debt and deficit will shrink the US carrier forces because we simply can no longer afford so many. China will slowly learn and grow their carrier forces because she is not involved in any major war which consumes money and resources. Without firing a shot the US fleet is shrinking, while China slowly builds up hers.


10 posted on 03/19/2012 10:27:15 AM PDT by Fee
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To: Former Proud Canadian

And we financedthat carrier through China.


11 posted on 03/19/2012 10:35:29 AM PDT by CodeToad (I'm so right-wing if I lifted my left leg I'd go into a spin.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
Photobucket
12 posted on 03/19/2012 10:41:03 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass
Caption that photo?

"Hi, my name is stupid. The shooter's name is stupid2, and the person behind me is stupidtoo, to."

5.56mm

13 posted on 03/19/2012 10:49:19 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: M Kehoe
to=too

Sheesh.

5.56mm

14 posted on 03/19/2012 10:50:11 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: DesertRhino

Even when they do figure out how to conduct flight operations they will still be very limited. A deck that small doesn’t allow for a very high sortie rate. You can either perform self protection or a very small strike.


15 posted on 03/19/2012 10:55:38 AM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: CodeToad

Well, that’s another story.


16 posted on 03/19/2012 11:10:06 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
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To: USNBandit
This is interesting, but there is a brutal learning curve and an experience level that will be nearly impossible for them to duplicate (or even come close) to the USN Carrier effectiveness.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!

We've been flying from ships for a hundred years, you can't gain that experience in a year or 2.

17 posted on 03/19/2012 11:10:49 AM PDT by Taylor42
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Looks like one of the older British carriers, only bigger. Nothing state of the art here.


18 posted on 03/19/2012 11:15:35 AM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: Joe 6-pack

“In the Chinese military, one training fatality results in another soldier being ordered to take the place of the deceased.”

Yes,,, but on carriers, accidents can mean a guy cut in half by a prop, but also can mean a destroyed jet engine, or 15 planes in flames on the flight deck. Communsit drone theory won’t allow success on carriers.


19 posted on 03/19/2012 11:19:33 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DesertRhino
"...accidents can mean a guy cut in half by a prop, but also can mean a destroyed jet engine, or 15 planes in flames on the flight deck."

They'll just replace the planes with new ones. Same thing with the flight deck if needed. Why shouldn't they? We're paying for them.

20 posted on 03/19/2012 11:23:27 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Fee

“Without firing a shot the US fleet is shrinking, while China slowly builds up hers.”

Perfectly astated. A slow financial war,,, with the same ultimate effect as a shooting war. And even more ironic,, is that they are more capitalist driven than we are,,, and we are becoming socialist central planners who won’t build dams, bridges, or pipelines. We won’t mine our minerals.
Our national suicide is growing. All any would be adversary should do,, is act halfway friendly, and be patient.


21 posted on 03/19/2012 11:24:26 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
“KP not look so bad now”

I don't think that can be real or at least they're not shooting at it with real guns. That's a simple wooden fence behind him with what looks to be a street and stores on the other side of it. Even in China if random civilians were getting shot while simply going about their daily business there would be a stink.

Also, while I would never do it, the soldier holding the target would be relatively safe if I was shooting at it with my scoped Marlin Model 60 .22. I can put 10 shots in a group little bigger than 1” at 25 yards and not much bigger than that at 50 yards.

22 posted on 03/19/2012 11:26:00 AM PDT by MtBaldy (If Obama is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question)
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To: Joe 6-pack

“They’ll just replace the planes with new ones. Same thing with the flight deck if needed. Why shouldn’t they? We’re paying for them.”

Yes,,, but the Forrestal accident and similar ones required more than just a new compliment of airframes and a few replacement sailors being brought aboard. Loss of a damaged carrier for weeks, or months, in peacetime is indeed a money issue. But if they are engaged in some sort of action in the Spratley islands,,,or off the coast of Africa. That one small accident might as well have been an enemy attack.
A flattop out of service,,,is a flattop out of service just the same. And the national objective cannot be achieved when they need it.
Carriers demand excellence.


23 posted on 03/19/2012 11:36:15 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: magslinger

ping


24 posted on 03/19/2012 12:02:20 PM PDT by Vroomfondel
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To: DesertRhino; Joe 6-pack

[ Communist drone theory won’t allow success on carriers. ]

China doesn’t have a carrier for warlike purposes..
China use “the Carrier” for propaganda purposes.. wholly completely..
China carrier is completely propaganda platform..
Like when a cat puffs up to appear bigger.. and hisses..

ONE cruise missile on the 3 Gorges Dam and much of China would be flooded..
and Chinas electricity and drinking “WATER” would suffer greatly.. for a long time..

AND THEY KNOW IT!...


25 posted on 03/19/2012 12:15:21 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: hosepipe

While they may NOT care so much about the life of a pilot, the learning curve may well result in said pilot plowing into a critical structure (Island? Flight Deck, etc?) Material casualties are a lot harder to recover from than personnel.


26 posted on 03/19/2012 12:44:06 PM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
I do not think they will start this spring.

1st, they have a huge learning curve for basic carrier operations first. All of the crew needs to learn how to sail the carrier and keep her running.

2nd, they need to train their crew in how to conduct carrier flight ops. How to move, store and position aircraft. The traffic patterns, both on the deck and in the air, etc.

Finally, they have to have the aircraft for the pilots to train on. To dats I have only seen 4-5 J-15s that have actually been built. 2-3 in non-official colors that are clearly manufacturer aircraft doing tests. And now 3-4 in PLAN colors, which are also doing flight quals.

I would not expect them to start true (as in preparing for deployment) flight quals for the carrier.

They may fly a couple out and do quals for the aircraft itself...but it will be some time before they have a full wing of J-15s and then sometime after that before all of them are trained with their pilots in carrier ops to the point of dpeloying.

At least two years before aircraft deply with the carrier operationally, IMHO.

Sometime this year you may see a few landings and takeoffs as the test the actual aircraft...then they will make whatever changes necessary and upgrade the existing few aircraft and work those changes into production for the full production run.

In the mean time, here's a blog/review of my build of the Chinese Carrier in 1/350 scale, Trumpter's model:


My Review and Build of the 1/350 Chinese aircraft Carrier

27 posted on 03/19/2012 12:46:13 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox; Fred Hayek; NY Attitude; P3_Acoustic; investigateworld; lowbuck; ...
SONOBUOY PING!

Photobucket

Click on pic for past Navair pings. Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist. The only requirement for inclusion in the Navair Pinglist is an interest in Naval Aviation. This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

28 posted on 03/19/2012 3:47:02 PM PDT by magslinger (If I wanted to vote for a Commie I would vote for Obammie. He has a chance of winning.)
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To: DesertRhino

You brought up an excellent point by mentioning the Forrestal. The explosions and subsequent fires were the culmination of penny pinching decisions from on high, safety rules being short cut and lack of training. All of these are specialties of China.
Also it must be remembered that the initial explosions took out the trained fire fighting crews leaving brave but inadequately trained sailors desperately trying to do what they hadn’t been trained for. That’s why sailors of my generation and later receive as much fire fighting training as we do. An accident on the scale of the Forrestal fire happening on China’s carrier would set back their carrier program by months if not years. They don’t have the pool of trained sailors we had in the late 60’s.


29 posted on 03/19/2012 4:42:54 PM PDT by magslinger (If I wanted to vote for a Commie I would vote for Obammie. He has a chance of winning.)
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To: Fee
Guess what China will use to cut us down, money!!!!

This sums it up perfectly. China can do far more damage to us economically than they can ever do to us militarily.

I always get a kick out of the people who think China will someday invade us or have an all-out war with us.

Why would they invade or have an all-out war when they are already here? They are already neck-deep in our economy. They don't make these investments with an eye towards a quick profit. They make investments with long-term goals.
30 posted on 03/19/2012 10:29:03 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: hosepipe
ONE cruise missile on the 3 Gorges Dam and much of China would be flooded..

and Chinas electricity and drinking “WATER” would suffer greatly.. for a long time..


Interesting thought - I've always looked at it from the point of view that they can destroy us economically far easier than militarily, but when you flip it around, they have incredible vulnerabilities. Electricity I'm not sure - we're talking about 3% according to the articles out there. But it could do a helluva lot of damage downstream, and Shanghai is at the end of the river.
31 posted on 03/19/2012 10:36:17 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr

On the otherhand we have elected “a Manchurian Candidate” as President..
AND he has pretty much filled Washington D.C. with every traitor from Berkley in Mexifornia to Annapolis..

We did it to ourselves by allowing all (or most of) the brains of American women to sucked out..


32 posted on 03/19/2012 10:48:48 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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