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Shoot First, Claim Self-Defense Later
The Loyal Opposition ^ | March 20, 2012 | andrew rosenthal

Posted on 03/20/2012 1:25:45 PM PDT by Fawn

In late February, 28-year-old George Zimmerman called 911 to report that a “real suspicious guy” was walking down the street in Sanford, Fla. He decided to follow the “suspicious guy,” and later that night Mr. Zimmerman shot and killed him with a 9 mm handgun. The “suspicious guy” was a black 17-year-old named Trayvon Martin. He was unarmed, carrying only a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea.

(Excerpt) Read more at loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: georgezimmerman; standyourground; trayvonmartin
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1 posted on 03/20/2012 1:25:57 PM PDT by Fawn
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To: Fawn

I’ve heard the tapes — the shooter’s 9/11 call and other neighbors.

It is hard not to come to the conclusion this Zimmerman guy (a Latino btw) shot the victim for WWB (walking while black).

Anyone heard the tapes and come to any other conclusion?


2 posted on 03/20/2012 1:33:25 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: Fawn

I believe it is best to withhold judgment on this until we know all the facts. Too many wanting blood from the race card players to jump to conclusions.

I do have to say that with Al Sharpton and others jumping on the “hang the white guy” bandwagon (he was Hispanic actually), I am inclined to think that the cry from Holders people is just to prove they have power over everyone else.

While I don’t believe that the “kid” should have been shot, I also think that he should have stopped and talked with Zimmerman to see what he was wanting instead of running, hiding, trying to cover his face with his hoodie and then fighting with the shooter. Those are, in my opinion, actions of a person who should be checked out. And under Florida’s “stand your ground” laws, would make his actions and the resulting fight after the chase, seem justified under the wording of the law.

But that’s my opinion and not based on the evidence that others are more privy to than I am.


3 posted on 03/20/2012 1:35:43 PM PDT by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: freedumb2003

I started out skeptical, but after hearing the tapes and interviews with neighbors, I think Zimmerman went out looking for a fight, started one, and shot the kid in cold blood. His crimes will be used to dilute Florida’s excellent self-defense laws and hurt law-abiding gun owners everywhere.


4 posted on 03/20/2012 1:39:15 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: Jack Burton007
While I don’t believe that the “kid” should have been shot, I also think that he should have stopped and talked with Zimmerman to see what he was wanting instead of running, hiding, trying to cover his face with his hoodie and then fighting with the shooter. Those are, in my opinion, actions of a person who should be checked out.

If someone is being followed, they should stop and talk to the person following them? And if they don't, if they instead run away, hide their face, and fight with the guy who is following them, those are "actions of a person who should be checked out"?

5 posted on 03/20/2012 1:41:01 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: freedumb2003

Your conclusion seems fair with what is reported. The lynch mob mentality encouraged tacitly by the DOJ is not productive legally but politically fits with the O. The case is going to the grand jury. Thus far, the locals seem to be moving appropriatly. It’s a sad situation all around and I understand the boy’s family being angry and frustrated.


6 posted on 03/20/2012 1:43:33 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: Jack Burton007

“he was Hispanic actually”

Proof please.


7 posted on 03/20/2012 1:47:42 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: Bryanw92
His crimes will be used to dilute Florida’s excellent self-defense laws and hurt law-abiding gun owners everywhere.

Though that's often the case elsewhere, the current climate in Florida is such that anti-gun votes = unemployed politicians.

8 posted on 03/20/2012 1:48:01 PM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: Jack Burton007

>> And under Florida’s “stand your ground” laws, would make his actions and the resulting fight after the chase, seem justified under the wording of the law.

The “Stand your ground” law is not for the person who initiates the contact, especially premeditated contact like Zimmerman who drove up to the kid. This wasn’t two guys bumping into each other and one getting angry. SYG isn’t a license to start a fight and then kill the guy when he fights back.


9 posted on 03/20/2012 1:49:23 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: Fawn
Stand Your Ground laws, otherwise known as Shoot First laws

This guy pursued the kid outside his home. It has nothing to do with stand your ground law AKA castle law. Typical Gun Grabber Libtard from the New York Slimes.

10 posted on 03/20/2012 1:50:22 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: Fawn
The problem here is that Zimmerman is being found guilty by the media even before the crime has been fully investigated. Also the media is using this incident as reasoning for more gun laws and that the average white(Latino) American are racists. This fits with what the Obamanation is building up to for the coming election.
I know that there will be armed black thugs at the polling
centers. Their reasoning is that they must protect the blacks from the evil white people.
We are witnessing the manufactured beginning of that race war that a certain leader wants so much.
11 posted on 03/20/2012 1:52:07 PM PDT by baddog 219
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To: AppyPappy

His family thinks he is.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/20/feds-to-investigate-killing-black-florida-teen-by-latino-man/


12 posted on 03/20/2012 1:52:29 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: Jack Burton007

So, you have a guy, with no recognizable uniform and gun drawn, come up to you and order you on the ground and put up your hands,...,good luck with your conversation. :)


13 posted on 03/20/2012 1:53:18 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Stand your ground is not exactly the same as the Castle Doctrine. Castle doctrine means you don't have to retreat within your own home before using deadly force. Stand your ground extends that principle outside the home.
14 posted on 03/20/2012 1:53:35 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Clint N. Suhks

>>It has nothing to do with stand your ground law AKA castle law.

Castle doctine is different from Stand Your Ground. Fortunately, we have both in Florida. I don’t think either applies to Zimmerman’s actions.


15 posted on 03/20/2012 1:55:20 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: Jack Burton007
I also think that he should have stopped and talked with Zimmerman to see what he was wanting instead of running, hiding, trying to cover his face with his hoodie and then fighting with the shooter. Those are, in my opinion, actions of a person who should be checked out.

_________________________________________________

About the most stupid post ever.....

Tell your own kids who are out walking after dark (or any time) that they should stop and talk to any grown man who wants them to....

Effin stupid.

16 posted on 03/20/2012 1:59:27 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Fawn

Ironic how that blog criticizes FoxNews for “identifying the real victim as the NRA.” Then the same blog goes on to identify the real culprit as “weak gun laws”. In reality, the real culprit would be the person who committed the crime.


17 posted on 03/20/2012 2:01:10 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: freedumb2003

I heard them. He struck me as a Barney Fife type SWAT wannbe-a-hero guy. The dispatcher told him NOT to do everything that he eventually did...........


18 posted on 03/20/2012 2:03:35 PM PDT by Red Badger (If the Government can make you buy health insurance, they can make you buy a Volt................)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Jonty30
There's evidence that his gun was drawn?

There are reports of them fighting. Pretty badass of a teen to try and fight a man with a gun.

20 posted on 03/20/2012 2:06:21 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Fawn

Mr. Zimmerman was protecting his property from a person he did not believe looked like he belonged in the neighborhood.


21 posted on 03/20/2012 2:22:08 PM PDT by Uncle Slayton
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To: Trailerpark Badass

If I was new to your neighborhood and I was walking around, not doing anything illegal, and you came up to me and demanded to know who I was, I’d give you a two word answer and keep walking.

I suspect that, if you were an aggressive law and order type, that probably wouldn’t be very satisfying and you probably get a little aggressive with me, to which there is a good chance there’d be a fight.

I can say that it’s a good possibility that Zimmerman was probably aggressive, because he had been explicitly instructed by the 911 operator to stand down and he went in anyway.


22 posted on 03/20/2012 2:26:12 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Uncle Slayton

The kid was not on the property at the time of the incident. I’m not aware of any state where castle doctrines apply off property.


23 posted on 03/20/2012 2:28:30 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jack Burton007

You just won the most idiotic post in FR history n00bie.


24 posted on 03/20/2012 2:29:44 PM PDT by bobby.223 (Retired high up in the mountains of the American Redoubt and it doesn't get any better than that!)
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To: Jonty30; Uncle Slayton
The kid was not on the property at the time of the incident. I’m not aware of any state where castle doctrines apply off property.

That, and I'm not aware of any state where castle doctrines (or, in this case, stand your ground laws) apply simply because a person does not "look[] like he belonged in the neighborhood."

25 posted on 03/20/2012 2:31:31 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: freedumb2003

I heard the tapes with the police dispatcher, the yelling, and gunshots in the background. Sounded like Zimmerman hunted this guy down and murdered him in cold blood.


26 posted on 03/20/2012 2:32:41 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: Bryanw92; AppyPappy

>>His family thinks he is.<<

What do THEY know?


27 posted on 03/20/2012 2:36:55 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: baddog 219

>>We are witnessing the manufactured beginning of that race war that a certain leader wants so much.<<

That is why I framed my reaction as I did — it is based on what I heard. Additional information may come out.

If you saw the ENTIRE Rodney King tape, the cops’ reaction makes sense. But they just played the last part.

But in this case, it is going to be difficult to create scenario that exculpates the shooter.

When the dispatcher TOLD him, “don’t follow” that set up the sequence of events.

But it will be interesting to see what the defense tries. If it goes to trial I guarantee they will want a change of venue (which is pointless since it is now blanketing the USA and probably the world). It will be on CourtTV (now TruTV) I am sure.


28 posted on 03/20/2012 2:43:10 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: Jack Burton007
Basically Martin was standing his own ground when he asked Zimmerman why he was following him.

The case hinges on who struck first ~ and whether that's throwing a punch, or FOLLOWING SOMEONE WITH EVIL INTENT, or some other item, there's probably enough phone location information to demonstrate one or the other started it.

I watched the Martin family lawyer today ~ beginning to end. He laid out a pretty good case. Zimmerman is TOAST ~

29 posted on 03/20/2012 2:44:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: bobby.223; Jack Burton007; mickie
Get a hold of yourself. Your assessment of Jack's post is way off base. In fact it mirrors most of what I just heard on my Florida radio station by a talk host who is actually giving both sides of the story as far as it's known.

The story is being whipped up here in Florida. The news media is having orgasms over this story. With Sharpton, the FBI, Holder's Heroes and others in the national "hate crime" posses all comin' to town to throw their weight around and tick off the local constabulary, the Grand Jury pool will be tainted without a doubt.

This alleged perp is already being noosed....the Feds are rarin' to kick the chair.......and I hope if and when the time comes that the guy gets a change of venue to northern Alaska somewhere.

Leni

Florida

30 posted on 03/20/2012 2:45:00 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: muawiyah
Basically Martin was standing his own ground when he asked Zimmerman why he was following him.

Exactly. 'Stand your ground' laws protect the guy that got shot. Zimmerman is toast.
31 posted on 03/20/2012 2:56:02 PM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Jack Burton007; Bryanw92
Basically Martin was standing his own ground when he asked Zimmerman why he was following him.

You do not need a gun to do that!

Frankly if you were being followed by an armed Hispanic man who outweighed you 35% and who was taller and burlier, I suspect you would not 'stand your own ground" would you.

Well, this kid did, and as could be expected the armed Hispanic man shot him to death for no reason at all.

That's the sort of thing that tells us we ALL need to pack heat when out at dark ~ lest we run into an armed Hispanic man.

Sounds like a mindless prejudice, but the Martin kid is dead because he forgot to arm himself.

Whoops~ as a minor he's not allowed to do that. Well, better luck in his next life.

I think it was Chucky Schumer who sponsored the legislation to take gun rights away from minors! Chalk this one up to Chucky and his running dog lackeys.

32 posted on 03/20/2012 2:57:03 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: freedumb2003
I’ve heard the tapes too. He's guilty! The only thing this idiot should carry is a cell phone and a flashlight. His wounds could be self inflicted.
33 posted on 03/20/2012 3:08:31 PM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Fawn
Apparently this Zimmerman guy made more than 40 calls to 911, none of which resulted in arrests, most of which were in response to black youths in the neighborhood.

Apparently this is “the Zimmerman standard”.

One black 17 year old male with a soda and skittles = A suspicious character.

Two black youths eating candy and drinking soda = a conspiracy.

Three black youths eating candy = a public disturbance.

Four black youths eating candy = a RIOT!!!

34 posted on 03/20/2012 3:16:47 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to DC to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: muawiyah

I’ve heard that the kid tried to run away and hide, but Zimmerman followed him while talking to the 911 operator, who told him to not detain the person. He told the operator something like “this one isn’t getting away.” Martin stood his ground after being hunted down.

Arming teenagers isn’t a good idea, but one neighbor who called 911 told the operator that the kid was screaming for help “but I’m not going out there.” A few seconds later, you hear the gunshots on the 911 tape.


35 posted on 03/20/2012 3:27:24 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: Fawn

I know when I’m tooling around Sanford I sure feel better carrying.


36 posted on 03/20/2012 3:28:03 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Democrats love direct democracy until it's time to vote on something. Then they scream for a judge)
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To: Bryanw92

So, an armed Hispanic male is out there shooting a kid ~ that’s when you really need a Streetweeper: http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/shotgun/sh09/striker.jpg


37 posted on 03/20/2012 3:39:43 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

You might as well use a hand grenade.


38 posted on 03/20/2012 3:42:37 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (The solution to fix Congress: Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure!)
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To: AppyPappy

Check his picture - you decide.

http://www.google.com/search?q=george%20zimmerman&biw=1280&bih=585&sei=Yg1pT6_GBMHrggfX0eSmCQ&tbm=isch


39 posted on 03/20/2012 4:08:21 PM PDT by Cheburashka (If life hands you lemons, government regulations will prevent you from making lemonade.)
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To: AppyPappy
“he was Hispanic actually”

Proof please.

What about proof that Martin was black?

40 posted on 03/20/2012 4:26:51 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: wtc911
Tell your own kids who are out walking after dark (or any time) that they should stop and talk to any grown man who wants them to....

What could possibly go wrong?


41 posted on 03/20/2012 4:37:49 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: Jonty30
I don't disagree with any of that, and yes, it's apparent Zimmerman got out of his car to confront Martin.

It's what happened then that's not quite clear.

Is there evidence Zimmerman had his gun drawn, or are you speculating?

42 posted on 03/20/2012 7:07:39 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass

I think it’s called descriptive action.

It doesn’t matter much if it was drawn, if you were the aggressor. You can’t credibly claim self defense if you’re the one who iniated the whole thing.

Zimmerman iniated it, that is without dispute.


43 posted on 03/20/2012 7:44:33 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Uncle Slayton

The encounter was off property and, according to the 911 call, not doing anything unlawfully.

Not much of a defense here.


44 posted on 03/20/2012 7:47:52 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: freedumb2003

I thought I read that Zimmerman was following him and was attacked before shooting the kid? Were there any reports of injuries or evidence of self defense or was he not allowed to watch people in the neighborhood. I think we may want to leave this one up to those that have access to the facts and not start building the gallows.


45 posted on 03/20/2012 8:02:38 PM PDT by BOBWADE (RINOs suck)
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To: Jonty30

Florida has no duty to retreat. On or “off property”.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html


46 posted on 03/20/2012 8:31:10 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Democrats love direct democracy until it's time to vote on something. Then they scream for a judge)
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To: Jonty30
Speculation, got it.

Not arguing with you. Your scenario is totally plausible. So are several others.

47 posted on 03/20/2012 8:51:03 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: AppyPappy

Meanwhile, Zimmerman’s father delivered a letter to the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday saying the way his son is being depicted in the media is cruel and misleading. He also says his son has received death threats and moved out of his home. George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

“He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...,” the letter says. “The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth.”

The letter Zimmerman’s father gave the Sentinel says George Zimmerman didn’t get out of the SUV to confront Martin.

“At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon, everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media,” the letter said. — (AP)

http://www.phillytrib.com/newsarticles/itemlist/tag/Trayvon%20Martin.html


48 posted on 03/20/2012 8:53:41 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: wtc911

My kids don’t walk around after dark, My kids don’t leave the view of my front door once the street lights go on. If my kids need something from the store or go some where after dark I or another adult is with them. During the day they are in school and must come home afterwards I do not permit my children to walk the streets.


49 posted on 03/20/2012 9:09:39 PM PDT by KingNo155
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To: wtc911
My kids don't walk around after dark, My kids don't leave the view of my front door once the street lights go on. If my kids need something from the store or go some where after dark I or another adult is with them. During the day they are in school and must come home after wards I do not permit my children to walk the streets.
50 posted on 03/20/2012 9:10:06 PM PDT by KingNo155
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