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Gun that killed Florida teen was fired once not twice by crime watch volunteer
bostonherald.com ^ | 20 March, 2012 | Rene Stutzman and Bianca Prieto

Posted on 03/20/2012 7:08:27 PM PDT by marktwain

Edited on 03/20/2012 7:21:16 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

SANFORD, Fla. — The handgun that killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, was fired once — not twice — by a neighborhood crime watch volunteer, according to new information obtained by the Orlando Sentinel.

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; florida; georgezimmerman; martin; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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To: Trailerpark Badass

“If I tell you I am from the neighborhood watch, ask your name and what you’re doing, and you come at me, hit me, knock me down and continue attacking me, I’m going to shoot you.”

If you say “i’m neignborhood watch,,” and start playing junior cop,,and i don’t know you, or ain’t in the mood for your crap, ill tell you to leave me alone. If you try to physically detain me,,, maybe i’d shoot you.
Where in hell do you think that neigborhood watch has the right to confront people on the street? You don’t,,, unless you see me raping, beating or breaking in. Otherwise,, your ONE option is to watch me, and report me to the cops.
If you just see someone you don’t know,, walking along,, they dont have the slightest obligation to put up with your junior cop routine.


161 posted on 03/20/2012 11:13:40 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: NMCicero
If you listen to the 911 tapes (which are available on the internet) it seems clear that Mr. Zimmerman was seeking a confrontation.

Yes, he was a neighborhood watch activist in a high-crime apartment complex. "Confrontation" could mean nothing more than saying hello.

Does Martin have a reasonable expectation that when walking out in public areas at night no one is allowed to talk to him?

The point is you have no evidence with which to characterize that confrontation other than your imagination.

162 posted on 03/20/2012 11:15:17 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Hiro Protaginast

“he’s not white. he’s hispanic.”

Can be both.

White is a race

Hispanic is an ethnicity which can be several races, including white, Indian, black, etc.

Many of my firends and some relatives by marriage are hispanic. Mostly european, eg. Spanish origin. Several are mixed european plus indian blood.

A cousin is half Spanish, half Philippino.

I knew a woman from Peru that was 3/4 Chinese and 1/4 indian.

We have seen some baseball players from the Caribbean that are all or part black.


163 posted on 03/20/2012 11:16:12 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs

Perhaps, but that has yet to occur, and until it does I see no reason to condemn their (the DOJ) actions. Right now they are simply investigating the incident, which I don’t think is at all inappropriate.


164 posted on 03/20/2012 11:16:25 PM PDT by NMCicero
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To: NMCicero
If you listen to the 911 tapes (which are available on the internet) it seems clear that Mr. Zimmerman was seeking a confrontation.

Yes, he was a neighborhood watch activist in a high-crime apartment complex. "Confrontation" could mean nothing more than saying hello.

Does Martin have a reasonable expectation that when walking out in public areas at night no one is allowed to talk to him?

The point is you have no evidence with which to characterize that confrontation other than your imagination.

165 posted on 03/20/2012 11:18:25 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: NMCicero

I have no idea why I am leery of THIS DOJ.. Oh wait, here’s a few reasons!: http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/category/department-of-justice/


166 posted on 03/20/2012 11:23:14 PM PDT by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Neigborhood watch has no legal authority beyond that of ANY citizen. If while you are simply walking home from the store, someone comes out of a house,, and demands to know your name, whats your business, etc,,,
You care free to ignore them, and need not speak a word to them. If they try to stop you,, or they point a gun at you,,, You may exercise the right of self defense. Including punching them in the head and trying to gain control of the gun.

Too bad the kid lost. Sounds like he was in a desperate state when Zimm misunderstood his role as an observer and reporter.
What was the immediate need for Zimm to exit and contact the kid? He knew cops were on the way,, he could have just maintained observation. Now he’s murdered a regular nice kid.


167 posted on 03/20/2012 11:23:54 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DesertRhino
Where in hell do you think that neigborhood watch has the right to confront people on the street?

This wasn't on a "street." From the description, this was a multi-unit condo complex with common areas, presumably maintained by owners' fees.

What right did Martin have to wander around in public without anyone talking to him?

168 posted on 03/20/2012 11:27:25 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass

I believe you are factually incorrect as to the nature of the community in which Mr. Martin resided. Do a Google search for “The Retreat at Twin Lakes” for more information. (It’s a subdivision, not an apartment complex.)

As to the evidence that leads me to believe that Mr. Zimmerman was seeking a confrontation, as I said, I base my conclusion on the 911 tapes, which are also available on the internet.

And as to whether Mr. Martin could reasonably expect that he could walk about the streets unmolested, my answer to you is unequivocally yes. Every person has the right to expect that they can go about their business free from interference so long as they are doing nothing illegal, and there is no evidence to support a conclusion that Mr. Martin was engaged in anything resembling criminal activity.


169 posted on 03/20/2012 11:28:53 PM PDT by NMCicero
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To: Trailerpark Badass

“What right did Martin have to wander around in public without anyone talking to him?”

The right we **all have** is to not be required to interact with those types. In your world,,is everyone acccountable to explain their evening to Zimm the nut, or every busybody who demands some answers? NO.
Why?? Because those people can simply call the cops who CAN stop and identify him lawfully. Then Martin would not have the right to flee.


170 posted on 03/20/2012 11:31:44 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs

No argument there. There’s plenty of reason to be suspicious of Federal power. My point was only that until the DOJ does something in this specific context that is objectionable, there is no reason for anyone to object.


171 posted on 03/20/2012 11:33:52 PM PDT by NMCicero
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To: Trailerpark Badass

“this was a multi-unit condo complex with common areas, presumably maintained by owners’ fees.”

And he was there,, lawfully, as a resident. It wasn’t a Kibbutz collective. Rights and rule of law still exist. Even apartment dwellers don’t have to answer to every cop wannabe residents questions.


172 posted on 03/20/2012 11:34:02 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DesertRhino
Neigborhood watch has no legal authority beyond that of ANY citizen. If while you are simply walking home from the store, someone comes out of a house,, and demands to know your name, whats your business, etc,,, You care free to ignore them, and need not speak a word to them. If they try to stop you,, or they point a gun at you,,, You may exercise the right of self defense. Including punching them in the head and trying to gain control of the gun.

In the same way, if I see someone walking down the sidewalk in front of my house, what's to stop me from walking out on my property and engaging them? If I ask questions that antagonize him, is he allowed to assault me?

173 posted on 03/20/2012 11:36:01 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass

“In the same way, if I see someone walking down the sidewalk in front of my house, what’s to stop me from walking out on my property and engaging them? If I ask questions that antagonize him, is he allowed to assault me?”

If he ignores you, or laughs at you, or asks if you were rejected by the local police,,,,and keeps walking,, you had better let him. If you do anything that causes a reasonable person to fear an immediate battery (ie,, body position, proximity, menacing behavior,,, trying to prevent him from leaving) He may indeed defend himself.

Is your position that he is somehow required to submit to your stop and interrogation? LOL DO what you want,, but you have no right to be listened to, placated, or obeyed .


174 posted on 03/20/2012 11:41:23 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: NMCicero
Understood.

As to the evidence that leads me to believe that Mr. Zimmerman was seeking a confrontation, as I said, I base my conclusion on the 911 tapes, which are also available on the internet.

Yes, I conceded that he was looking for a confrontation, as a neighborhood watch activist. And it's funny to see Freepers so beholden to the power and judgment of 911 dispatchers. That's ridiculous.

You're claiming he initiated a violent confrontation. I'm not sure the evidence supports that.

175 posted on 03/20/2012 11:42:56 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: DesertRhino
Is your position that he is somehow required to submit to your stop and interrogation?

Nope.

176 posted on 03/20/2012 11:45:40 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Then we’re fine. Come out and confront,, don’t aim a gun, and don’t try to detain me if i decide im not interested in any engagement,,,just for walking down the sidewalk.


177 posted on 03/20/2012 11:48:06 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: NMCicero

Believe me, if it’s Holder you KNOW what his agenda is.


178 posted on 03/20/2012 11:58:56 PM PDT by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
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To: FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs

You got that right. And though im in the camp that thinks this guy deserves a homicide charge (probably manslaughter)
i do not think the feds have a role here.

If the injustice is obvious to the locals, and enough people are outraged,, they will almost surely have an immediate effect on State prosecutors and can force a grand jury examination of this.
This panel of citizens can then decide if there is enough evidence.

It is far far too early for the DOJ to be involved in this. Unless it is utterly demonstrated that some sort of corruption exists, and cannot be corrected by local citizens,, then DOJ has no role.

If an actual injustice is perceived locally,,it takes a little time for the locals to get their leaders to see the light. THe local citizens need time to bring their own leaders to heel. But no matter,, this seems to be a state matter.


179 posted on 03/21/2012 12:12:34 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Hiro Protaginast

he’s not white. he’s hispanic.
*************************
Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. Even the US Census counts them as ‘white’, or Caucasian, since they stem from Anglos in Spain and Portugal....thus the term ‘Hispanic’ from Hispania from Iberia.


180 posted on 03/21/2012 12:19:13 AM PDT by octex
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