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Vaticanís twisted priorities: Op-ed: Catholic Church chooses to demonize Israel
YNET NEWS ^ | Published: 03.16.12, 14:26 / Israel Opinion | Giulio Meotti

Posted on 03/21/2012 2:38:18 AM PDT by RaceBannon

In a special interview with Die Tagespost last week, Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fouad Twal, named by Pope Benedict to represent the Vatican in the Jewish State, declared that “Israel’s existence as such has nothing to do with the Bible.” He then compared Christians’ condition in today’s Jerusalem with Jesus’ Passion: “We Christians never forget that even our Lord himself suffered and was mocked in Jerusalem.”

Twal's position on Israel and the Bible has been embraced at the highest levels in the Catholic Church. The Vatican synod in 2010 declared that Israel cannot use the Biblical concept of a promised land or a chosen people. “We Christians cannot speak about the Promised Land for the Jewish people”, the synod’s document said. “There is no longer a chosen people. The concept of the promised land cannot be used as a base for the justification of the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of Palestinians.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bravosierra; catholicism; israelgenesis
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Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: RaceBannon; stowaway; jjm2111; Mrs.LoneGOPinCT; underbyte; badbackman; Bigfitz; mcswan; ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrislam

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=1366

http://www.chrislam.org/

http://apprising.org/2011/02/22/the-rise-of-chrislam/


2 posted on 03/21/2012 2:41:45 AM PDT by RaceBannon (Romney would surrender to Islam as fast as Obama promotes it)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: jimrob

Huh? Would like to hear your views on this because I’m just plain confused...


5 posted on 03/21/2012 3:30:19 AM PDT by piytar (Rebellion is here! Free Republic is on the front line! NEVER SURRENDER!)
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To: RaceBannon; piytar
Strangely the Die Tagespost has no indication at all that there was ever an interview: google: "Fouad Twal" site:www.die-tagespost.de
6 posted on 03/21/2012 3:51:50 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

Interview is

here

7 posted on 03/21/2012 4:26:42 AM PDT by SJackson (The easiest way to find something lost around the house is to buy a replacement)
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To: Cronos

link in post 7


8 posted on 03/21/2012 4:27:02 AM PDT by SJackson (The easiest way to find something lost around the house is to buy a replacement)
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To: RaceBannon

These appear to demented bleatings. However, it must pointed out that The Vatican does not necessarily speak for the Catholic Church and, in fact, cannot do so where it counts.


9 posted on 03/21/2012 4:41:10 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...well, half-right, at least.)
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To: RaceBannon
If in the wartime period the Vatican had taken a moral stand against Nazism, the outcome might have been different for the Jewish people.

It's fairly easy to make a negative statement because one can't prove a "negative" but can you offer some supporting evidence for that provocative assertion?

10 posted on 03/21/2012 4:44:37 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: SJackson

The Catholic Church is made of men. Men can be mistaken.


11 posted on 03/21/2012 4:51:52 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Breitbart)
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To: SJackson; The Invisible Hand
thanks. The Patriarch speaks for himself. This is not a 'Vatican statement' and doesn't become one unless it is officially pronounced by the bishop of Rome, so the headline in this article is wrong.

secondly, the Patriarch -- if he means that the nation of the Jews is not in the Bible, he is wrong. If he means that it's existence is not because of the Bible then -- wait for it -- in a way isn't he correct? teh Jews' RIGHT to the land it is on is divinely appointed, not just because it was written in the Bible. The fact that it is in the Bible is a follow-up to the fact that it was given to the people of Israel by God.

12 posted on 03/21/2012 4:53:12 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Cronos
The Patriarch speaks for himself. This is not a 'Vatican statement'

Yes, that's an important distinction.

13 posted on 03/21/2012 4:58:10 AM PDT by SJackson (The easiest way to find something lost around the house is to buy a replacement)
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To: the invisib1e hand; RaceBannon; SJackson

And the statement about the Jewish people “no longer being a chosen people.....etc.” came from one Greek-Melchite Archbishop and was not declared in a Vatican Synod.

http://news.uk.msn.com/world/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=155070002";


14 posted on 03/21/2012 5:17:00 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Breitbart)
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To: the invisib1e hand

“The Vatican does not necessarily speak for the Catholic Church and, in fact, cannot do so where it counts.”

What are you pretending to pronounce here?

It “might” be true of Fouad Twal, but just who are you suggesting “The Vatican” is?


15 posted on 03/21/2012 5:26:02 AM PDT by G Larry (We are NOT obliged to carry the snake in our pocket and then dismiss the bites as natural behavior.)
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To: RaceBannon
If in the wartime period the Vatican had taken a moral stand against Nazism, the outcome might have been different for the Jewish people.

Bravo Sierra

Waiting for you to add your "whore of Babylon" gibe.

16 posted on 03/21/2012 5:27:05 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: piytar

I have never understood the public statements from the Vatican, regarding Israel.
The only satisfaction I have is that the subject is not “a matter of faith and morals”, so they are clearly open to error in the matter.


17 posted on 03/21/2012 5:30:53 AM PDT by G Larry (We are NOT obliged to carry the snake in our pocket and then dismiss the bites as natural behavior.)
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To: RaceBannon

And what do you say to the Rabbi’s who have written very favorably regarding the role of the Pope and the Catholic Church in saving thousands of Jews during WWII?


18 posted on 03/21/2012 5:33:42 AM PDT by G Larry (We are NOT obliged to carry the snake in our pocket and then dismiss the bites as natural behavior.)
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To: RaceBannon
If in the wartime period the Vatican had taken a moral stand against Nazism, the outcome might have been different for the Jewish people.

Glad to know you're swallowing the KGB's propaganda line straight up.

In reality, the Catholic Church was a bitter enemy of Nazism, the Nazis knew it, and Pope Pius XII was directly responsible for saving 860,000 Jewish lives.

19 posted on 03/21/2012 5:35:36 AM PDT by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: Cronos; RaceBannon; SJackson
Note the article: "Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fouad Twal, named by Pope Benedict to represent the Vatican in the Jewish State".

"Patriarch" is not a Catholic title. It is an Orthodox title. This guy is not Catholic. He just has the job of relaying Vatican concerns to Israel. I think he will shortly no longer have the job.

20 posted on 03/21/2012 5:40:58 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: Cronos; RaceBannon; SJackson
Correction to my last statement: he is a Catholic Bishop. I just has never heard the title "Patriarch" used in a Catholic, as opposed to Orthodox, context before.

That said, there are lots of Catholic priests and even bishops who mouth off here in the US in contradiction to the Pope. The Patriarch was speaking for himself.

21 posted on 03/21/2012 5:47:31 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: G Larry

this is not a ‘public statement from the Vatican’. It’s an opinion by the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. He speaks for himself, not even for all the people in his Patriarchate.


22 posted on 03/21/2012 5:56:34 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: G Larry; RaceBannon

Quite a few would completely ignore that... they would write articles that perpetrate lies


23 posted on 03/21/2012 5:57:24 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: RaceBannon

Surprise, Christian are not Jews. It may by uncomfortable for Jews but Catholic theology holds that the Church is the new Israel and the true heirs to the promises. The old covenants were a foreshadowing and prelude to the New Covenant in Jesus Christ. Anyone familiar with Saint Paul would be aware of this.

This is not to say that God has abandoned the Jews but rather that at the time of our Lord there was a split in Judaism; some Jews accepted Jesus as the Messiah and some did not. To those Jews who did accept Jesus were joined the Gentiles who together form the Church. The covenant of Moses is no longer operative. This God himself has shown when he allowed the Temple to be destroyed and which has not been rebuilt for 2000 years.

As Saint Paul stated, there is no longer Jew and Greek. The path to salvation for the Jews is the same as that for the Gentiles, through Jesus Christ. To insist that Christians recognize the continuing force of the Old Testament covenants apart from the new universal covenant in Jesus Christ is to insist that they cease being Christian.


24 posted on 03/21/2012 5:58:25 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: PapaBear3625; RaceBannon; SJackson
unfortunately, he is a Catholic bishop. If he was saying that Christians get targetted in Israel by the ultra-orthodox, he's correct, BUT, BUT this is nothing compared to the OFFICIAL targetting in Moslem lands and THAT must be noted. A few ultra-orthodox spitting at priests or worse is nowhere near the same level as Moslems raping and burning.

Fahd speaks his own opinion which in this case is wrong and also ignoring the fate of Christians in Moslem lands. Small-minded twerp.

25 posted on 03/21/2012 6:01:09 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: RaceBannon
The concept of the promised land cannot be used as a base for the justification of the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of Palestinians.”

Actually, I agree with this; except for the bit about "displacement of 'Palestinians,'" that is.

I've been arguing about this with people at my synagogue about the best way to argue for the right of the modern State of Israel to exist. The Bible is nice, but it doesn't convey any legal right or prohibition unless that right or prohibition is imported into a modern legal structure. Suggesting that it has some standing outside of a modern legal context is little different from suggesting that Sharia Law does.

The right of the people in Israel to govern themselves as they do is based upon the right to own and control private property. The land in Palestine was purchased by an assortment of people whom we refer to as Zionists beginning in the late 19th century (when it was mostly desolate) under the laws of the Ottoman Turks who controlled property transfers at that time. These purchases continued under British law after WWI, and now under Israeli law since 1948. The Arabs who didn't sell or abandon their property still have it (or the people they transferred it to do). To be sure some property, including Arab property, has been condemned under eminent domain claims. All governments do this. But the notion of Arabs being forced at gunpoint or similar threat to abandon their property is almost entirely false. Virtually no one has been displaced, unless perhaps they never had any legal claim in the first place. (And except perhaps in PA administered areas like Bethlehem, and there the only Arabs being displaced are Christian Arabs.)

ML/NJ

26 posted on 03/21/2012 6:59:40 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: RaceBannon
Still obsessively posting these ignorant anti-Catholic screeds after all these years?

You'd present a much better case if you could - just once a decade - prove to the membership that you're capable of rubbing two brain cells together.

27 posted on 03/21/2012 7:22:59 AM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: ml/nj

you are correct. the lands of Israel were purchased legally in modern historic times.


28 posted on 03/21/2012 7:49:55 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: AAABEST; RaceBannon

obsessive is the word. For many folks their religion IS being :I slime those kaflix’


29 posted on 03/21/2012 7:50:44 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: RaceBannon
The concept of the promised land cannot be used as a base for the justification of the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of Palestinians.

This is a very powerful and dangerous MYTH.

30 posted on 03/21/2012 8:09:53 AM PDT by Brass Lamp
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To: RaceBannon; All
What do I keep telling you all about those Mid-East chr*stians?

Jews and chr*stians may be friends in America, but the world is a big place.

31 posted on 03/21/2012 8:47:14 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: PapaBear3625
Note the article: "Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fouad Twal, named by Pope Benedict to represent the Vatican in the Jewish State".

"Patriarch" is not a Catholic title. It is an Orthodox title. This guy is not Catholic. He just has the job of relaying Vatican concerns to Israel. I think he will shortly no longer have the job.

The Pope is Patriarch of the West. And there is indeed a Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem (just as there is a Greek Orthodox and Armenian patriarchate there). Michel Sabbah was the first Arab to fill this position.

Arab chr*stians (and other Middle Eastern chr*stians) are rabidly, fanatically anti-Israel. The only people who don't get this are secular Zionists and American Judaeo-chr*stians.

The historical chr*stian churches have always believed they are the "new Israel" and that the Jews no longer play any special role whatsoever (except perhaps as the "enemies of G-d").

32 posted on 03/21/2012 8:54:27 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Petrosius; All; Cronos
Surprise, Christian are not Jews. It may by uncomfortable for Jews but Catholic theology holds that the Church is the new Israel and the true heirs to the promises. The old covenants were a foreshadowing and prelude to the New Covenant in Jesus Christ. Anyone familiar with Saint Paul would be aware of this.

This is not to say that God has abandoned the Jews but rather that at the time of our Lord there was a split in Judaism; some Jews accepted Jesus as the Messiah and some did not. To those Jews who did accept Jesus were joined the Gentiles who together form the Church. The covenant of Moses is no longer operative. This God himself has shown when he allowed the Temple to be destroyed and which has not been rebuilt for 2000 years.

As Saint Paul stated, there is no longer Jew and Greek. The path to salvation for the Jews is the same as that for the Gentiles, through Jesus Christ. To insist that Christians recognize the continuing force of the Old Testament covenants apart from the new universal covenant in Jesus Christ is to insist that they cease being Christian.

A perfect summation of the historical chr*stian attitude, completely unknown to most Americans of all religions.

To insist that Christians recognize the continuing force of the Old Testament covenants apart from the new universal covenant in Jesus Christ is to insist that they cease being Christian.

And yet American Fundamentalist Protestants manage to do so while remaining the "ultimate chr*stians" in the imaginations of most people.

33 posted on 03/21/2012 9:01:20 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: AAABEST; RaceBannon; All
Still obsessively posting these ignorant anti-Catholic screeds after all these years?

You'd present a much better case if you could - just once a decade - prove to the membership that you're capable of rubbing two brain cells together.

This is a very typical example of the type of argument Catholic FReepers so often engage in. There is no logic, not argument, no response . . . only an ad hominem attack (coupled with the implication of the higher intelligence of Catholics).

One would think that such superior intellects would be capable of shattering opposing arguments with a devastating critique, but no. There is only the "you people are dumb" line that plays like a recording.

Remind you of any other group of people???

34 posted on 03/21/2012 9:05:32 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
A perfect summation of the historical chr*stian attitude, completely unknown to most Americans of all religions.

Do not let a vocal minority of Fundamentalist Protestants fool you. There are more Christians who hold the historically orthodox view of the relationship between Christians and Jews than you would like.

BTW, showing contempt for Christians by writing it as "chr*stian" is not the way to engender respect for Jews.

35 posted on 03/21/2012 9:27:03 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: RaceBannon

Vatican Condemns Israel for Attacks on Lebanon
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1665678/posts


36 posted on 03/21/2012 10:19:49 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Petrosius
while remaining the... ultimate.. in the imaginations of most people

errr... no, not in the imaginations of most people across the world. Far, far from it....

37 posted on 03/21/2012 11:21:10 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

As far as I can see, the relationship between American Jews and Christians is a one way relationship in America and based in the an Evangelical Christian faith different than what was expressed by this Catholic leader.

Evangelical Christians are the most hated and debased of all Christians by the Left which constitutes most American Jews.


38 posted on 03/21/2012 11:22:30 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Petrosius
Petrosius -- you are wrong to state "the true heirs" -- our theology holds to the existence of two Israels. One—"all who are of Israel"—indicates the ethnic people, not all of whom believe in Jesus. The other Israel, the context reveals, does not include those who have rejected the Messiah. This new Israel, founded by Messiah, exists in spiritual continuity with the Old Testament saints and so counts as a "spiritual Israel." It includes Gentiles who believe in the Messiah and so through baptism are spiritually circumcised (Col. 2:11–12) and are reckoned as spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:26–29).

the Catholic Church holds that Israel is the priestly people of God, "called by the name of the LORD", and "the first to hear the word of God", the people of "elder brethren" in the faith of Abraham. -- namely that Israel includes BOTH the older faith of the Jewish people who do not accept Christ and the new Israel of Christianity.

Replacement philosophy is a non-Catholic point of view -- we are not a replacement rather a continuation.

39 posted on 03/21/2012 11:26:29 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: SaraJohnson
Evangelical Christians are the most hated and debased ....

err... no -- haven't you been reading about Obama's attacks on the Church? And the New York Times' open advertisement telling people to leave Catholicism because we are against "reproductive rights" i.e. because we are against abortion and contraception....?

40 posted on 03/21/2012 11:29:57 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Petrosius; Zionist Conspirator

ZC is not a Jew. Messianics are rejected by mainstream Judaism


41 posted on 03/21/2012 11:31:17 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Cronos

It’s not a beauty contest. The Left hates you, too.


42 posted on 03/21/2012 11:33:24 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Zionist Conspirator; PapaBear3625
that the Jews no longer play any special role whatsoever

False statement.. the Church does not believe that.. perhaps some non-Catholic fundamentalists in the US may have believed that

43 posted on 03/21/2012 11:33:39 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: SaraJohnson

yes, that’s why we need to be united on political issues — especially this year.


44 posted on 03/21/2012 11:35:25 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: RaceBannon
The function by some individuals and groupings over the past two thousand years have indulged in the similar philosophies.
The gate is narrow. Only ONE is the true way.
45 posted on 03/21/2012 12:16:32 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle
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To: SaraJohnson

Evangelical Christians are the most hated and debased of all Christians by the Left which constitutes most American JINOS & CINOS....

/fixed it.


46 posted on 03/21/2012 1:04:08 PM PDT by Yehuda (Muck Fislam and it's useful infidel - dhimmie supporters / www.jewpoint.blogspot.com)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; RaceBannon
Not sure which FR you've been visiting all this time, but "Race" is a serial poster of anti-Catholic screeds. He's a man after your heart. Hence, anything he posts regarding the faith is not worthy of a reasoned response, only ridicule.

Further, I HONESTLY don't enjoy pointing this out, but it's simply on objective conclusion on my part that he's not very bright. He's been on a mission to prove that to me for years now.

All that said, has something has changed over the last few years that's given you the idea that I'm interested in your thoughts?

I'm not... still.

47 posted on 03/21/2012 1:09:36 PM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: Cronos
Replacement philosophy is a non-Catholic point of view -- we are not a replacement rather a continuation.

What I stated above in not replacement theology. Indeed I stated:

This is not to say that God has abandoned the Jews but rather that at the time of our Lord there was a split in Judaism; some Jews accepted Jesus as the Messiah and some did not. To those Jews who did accept Jesus were joined the Gentiles who together form the Church.
You are making the mistake of identifying the Church as other than the true continuation of Israel because the Gentiles have been grafted on to it. As for those Jews who reject Jesus as the Messiah they are only a part of the nation of Israel, not the whole.

the Catholic Church holds that Israel is the priestly people of God, "called by the name of the LORD", and "the first to hear the word of God", the people of "elder brethren" in the faith of Abraham.

This is a statement of historical fact; it does not imply that the covenant of Moses is still operative or that the Jews are not called to the new covenant in Jesus Christ. Indeed the Catechism of the Catholic Church which you quoted continues:

Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts. … "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son" (Heb 1:1-2).
There is today only one covenant in Jesus Christ to which all are called, Jews and Gentiles alike.
48 posted on 03/21/2012 1:27:52 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: AAABEST

serial?

I haven’t posted anything on Catholicism in almost 3 years

But, typical slander like I got before

thanks for being consistent

Anyways, yours is the first comment I am responding to

This is what the Church official said.

All I did was cite the article

there is not any comment from me on this thread except this one when you read it

so, once again, slander


49 posted on 03/21/2012 2:48:16 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Romney would surrender to Islam as fast as Obama promotes it)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

knock it off

All I did was post an article

this is only the SECOND addition that are my words

NONE of the comments are mine in the lead post

and as I explaind starting over 10 YEARS ago, I do NOT believe the RCC is the whore of babylon

so, grow up


50 posted on 03/21/2012 2:57:02 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Romney would surrender to Islam as fast as Obama promotes it)
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