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Zimmerman-Martin 031912.docx (City Manager Statement)
Zimmerman-Martin 031912.docx ^ | 19 March, 2012 | Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr ICMA-CM City Manager

Posted on 03/22/2012 8:17:42 PM PDT by marktwain

Fellow Citizens:

There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going though. In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what information it can publicly release.

The City of Sanford is committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of Sanford has contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter.

The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt sympathies to the Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of anyone due to violence, especially a 17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As this incident has generated a lot of media attention, we wanted to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions.

Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?

When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.

According to Florida Statute 776.032 : 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released?

There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the subdivision, and the non- emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. The 911 tapes have since been released.

Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the role of a neighborhood watch member?

Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida. He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors. They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the situation.

Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department.

If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this investigation?

Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.

Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has a prior arrest history?

In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information. What about media reenactments of the shooting incident? Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.

The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.

Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience, understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community.

Thank you,

Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM City Manager March 19, 2012


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; georgezimmerman; trayvonmartin; trayvonneighborhood
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To: VeniVidiVici
A week long suspension for being late to class. I find that hard to believe but it is Miami and they’ve about reached the end of their rope when it comes to tolerating misbehavior. Maybe Soldierdad can comment on that.

I can't speak to that school district's policy, or to that particular student's attendance record. I do know by experience that students can and are suspended for nonsense reasons. My sons (2) received three day suspensions for fighting while in high school. The "fight" occurred after school while they waited for their mother to pick them up. The "fight" consisted of the two of them arguing over, if I recall correctly, an article of clothing that one had borrowed from the other. There were no punches thrown. They did not posture towards each other. It was simply an argument between siblings. It was witnessed by a campus monitor, who called for the youth service officer, who took the two of them to the principal, and they were suspended. At one of the elementary schools I work at (different district) a second grade student was suspended for five days for bringing a butter knife to school. I read a story about a kindergarten student being suspended for five days for a drawing dipicting a hunting scene. There was a recent story about a father who was arrested because his daughter had drawn a picture of a gun. Do schools go overboard? Yes. Sometimes they do.

51 posted on 03/23/2012 3:11:25 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier who has survived 24 months of Combat deployment.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hasn’t Zimmerman admitted that he shot and killed Trayton?


52 posted on 03/23/2012 3:30:25 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Revolting cat!
I have read of a lot of shootings. I post them all the time. People who claim self defense when it is not often get caught because they have to make up a story quickly and it does not fit the evidence, which contradicts their statements.

Yes, if George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin, he would have an incentive to lie. The facts are, though, that nothing in the physical evidence contradicts his statements.

What I find particularly telling is his unsolicited statement to the police, shortly after their arrival: I called for help, but nobody came.

This is collaborated by the tapes. The Martin partisans have been saying that it was Martin calling for help. It would take a sociopath genius to come up with the idea of saying that he was calling for help when it was the other guy.

People are innocent in this country until proved guilty. I do not see any proof that contradicts George Zimmermans statements.

I suspect that Trayvon Martin saw George Zimmerman following him, and was scared. But, instead of getting away, he saw a chance to attack someone he saw as a threat, and took it.

53 posted on 03/23/2012 5:27:38 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

What I don’t get is why the police released the 911 call with Zimmerman’s home address in it.

I believe that this person’s property, possibly his life, is in danger.

Anyone with a PC can YouTube the 911 call and find this place now.


54 posted on 03/23/2012 5:34:47 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (Look for the union label, then buy elsewhere.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Why? No one is questioning whether Zimmerman shot and killed Martin. He's admitted to it.

It's everything else that has people in an uproar.

From what I have read so far, Zimmerman was defending himself when he shot Trayvon. The initial police investigation was correct in not having enough to arrest him on and plenty to defend himself with under "stand your ground".

Sorry Trayvon, but you learned the hard way that you can't throw a beat down on someone just because they ask you what you are doing skulking about their gated community...

55 posted on 03/23/2012 5:41:26 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Revolting cat!; Krankor
Lamilla and Cutcher described Zimmerman pacing around the body, following the shooting, and disputed that there was any indication of a fight.

Police report from the scene says Zimmerman has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.. This is consistent with it being Martin who was on top beating Zimmerman, rather than the reverse. There is also no report of Martin's body displaying any injuries other than the single shot which killed him.

In the linked article, Lamilla is describing that AFTER she hears the gunshot, she claims to see Zimmerman on his knees above Martin.

This is consistent with the following scenario: Martin is on top, beating Zimmerman (accounts for Zimmerman's broken nose and wound to back of head, probably from hitting the ground after being attacked). Zimmerman shoots Martin. Martin drops. Zimmerman starts to get up, first rising to his knees, which is the scene Lamilla describes.

56 posted on 03/23/2012 5:55:16 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: marktwain
I take it you've read the Initial Shooting Report? Did you note how many witnesses are listed?

It'd be very instructive to see a transcript of those interviews. Along with the investigation teams interview with Zimmerman at the PD station.

At least, it'd be a lot more instructive than rehashing the fire-hose stream of flame-war crap coming from most news media outlets.

57 posted on 03/23/2012 5:56:52 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There has never been any question that Zimmerman shot this guy ( note I did not say Kid—someone six feet tall is no child.)

I just wish the media would keep their uninformed opinions to themselves. I listened to A Cooper last night and his side comments were just horrible.


58 posted on 03/23/2012 6:04:42 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (I just don't like anything about the President. And I don't think he's a nice guy.)
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To: PapaBear3625
This is consistent with the following scenario: Martin is on top, beating Zimmerman (accounts for Zimmerman's broken nose and wound to back of head, probably from hitting the ground after being attacked).

___________________________________

It is even more consistent with this scenario....

Martin was walking to his dad's GF's house after buying candy at a local store (known truth).

Martin was unarmed (known truth).

Zimmerman followed Martin in his car (known truth). btw...how slow do you have to drive to stay behind somebody on foot? what do you think the person on foot thinks about the vehicle stalking him?

Zimmerman was armed (known truth).

Martin ran (known truth). btw...this is exactly what a teen or anybody being followed by an adult in a car should do.

Zimmerman got out of his car and followed Martin (known truth).

In all these known truths Zimmerman was the armed pursuer and Martin was the unarmed pursued -- and he tried to get away.

Given these known truths it is far more likely a scenario that Zimmerman caught up with Martin, continued his aggressive behavior, Martin defended himself from the grown man with a gun and got the upper hand.

59 posted on 03/23/2012 6:05:30 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: SoldierDad
I do know by experience that students can and are suspended for nonsense reasons.

Schools have gotten a lot of heat over the fact that black students are suspended and disciplined more than whites. This creates a big incentive to discipline white students for even the smallest infraction, while not suspending black students except for the most serious issues, in order to get their "numbers" good.

60 posted on 03/23/2012 6:06:29 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There has never been any question that Zimmerman shot this guy ( note I did not say Kid—someone six feet tall is no child.)

I just wish the media would keep their uninformed opinions to themselves. I listened to A Cooper last night and his side comments were just horrible.


61 posted on 03/23/2012 6:16:26 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (I just don't like anything about the President. And I don't think he's a nice guy.)
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To: wtc911
Given these known truths it is far more likely a scenario that Zimmerman caught up with Martin, continued his aggressive behavior, Martin defended himself from the grown man with a gun and got the upper hand.

How likely are you to get into a fist fight with a man who you know has a gun? Versus trying to run away? A 17 year old athlete WILL be able to outrun a chubby 240 pound guy.

It's more likely that Martin did not know Zimmerman had a gun before the second that Zimmerman shot him.

Plus, even back when I was 17, I would not be likely to be walking 4 miles round trip, in the rain, to get skittles. The ONLY thing that would have had me walking 4 miles in the rain would have been if I was escorting a pretty girl. Then again, if my primary purpose for walking around was to case the neighborhood, then stopping off for a snack in the process would be likely.

62 posted on 03/23/2012 6:43:05 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: PapaBear3625
You are right, it may be possible that Martin didn't know that Zimmerman had a gun. But if Martin were on top of zimmerman and beating the crap out of him then how did Zimmerman pull the weapon and use it?

How far away from Martin was Zimmerman when he shot?

And, more to the point, why surmise, without any evidence, that Martin, who had been trying to avoid Zimmerman suddenly turned aggressive and attacked Zimmerman, who, buy his own taped account was the aggressor?

63 posted on 03/23/2012 6:52:03 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: PapaBear3625
Then again, if my primary purpose for walking around was to case the neighborhood, then stopping off for a snack in the process would be likely.

_______________________________________________

Oh, I get you now....you're one of those guys who, in spite of the lack of any evidence of any kind, want to depict the dead teen as a criminal...

64 posted on 03/23/2012 6:54:55 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911
Oh, I get you now....you're one of those guys who, in spite of the lack of any evidence of any kind, want to depict the dead teen as a criminal...

There is very little real evidence, and much of it is contradictory. As such, there is no basis, except speculation, in thinking that Martin was casing the neighborhood for robbery. Just as there is no evidence, except speculation, that Zimmerman was not acting in self defense when he shot Martin.

65 posted on 03/23/2012 7:20:31 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: wtc911
You are right, it may be possible that Martin didn't know that Zimmerman had a gun. But if Martin were on top of zimmerman and beating the crap out of him then how did Zimmerman pull the weapon and use it?

If you are attacking me with your fists, I only need my right hand free for a second to draw and fire.

How far away from Martin was Zimmerman when he shot?

In all accounts, they were in physical contact, so powder burn analysis will verify that.

And, more to the point, why surmise, without any evidence, that Martin, who had been trying to avoid Zimmerman suddenly turned aggressive and attacked Zimmerman, who, buy his own taped account was the aggressor?

Teenagers have been doing odd irrational things for all of recorded history.

66 posted on 03/23/2012 7:27:03 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: PapaBear3625
Oh, teenagers act irrationally sometimes therefore Martin attacked Zimmerman....in spite of the fact that we know Martin ran from him...that's your argument?

Really, aren't you better than this?

67 posted on 03/23/2012 7:35:53 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911
I'm not saying that. This is what I'm saying: "In the absence of evidence, it is not more valid to assume that Zimmerman initiated a physical assault on Martin than to assume that Martin initiated a physical assault on Zimmerman."

I'm waiting for the final police report and autopsy.

68 posted on 03/23/2012 8:01:22 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: PapaBear3625
This is what I'm saying: "In the absence of evidence, it is not more valid to assume that Zimmerman initiated a physical assault on Martin than to assume that Martin initiated a physical assault on Zimmerman."

_________________________________

But there is evidence of both Zimmerman's and Martin's behavior...the tape of Zimmerman talking to the PD.

In this tape Zimmerman describes Martin running away - a non-aggressive act that avoids confrontation - and exactly what you would want your teenager to do.

The same tape shows Zimmerman's aggressive actions of following both in car and on foot.

One was unarmed and avoided contact - one pursued with a gun.

69 posted on 03/23/2012 8:12:38 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Revolting cat!
"Not a word he says is believable."

You can believe what he said and was recorded on the 911 tape, which was: "f'n coons".

The rest he said was a lie to cover his desire and intent to shoot Martin for his own racist pleasure. He already told the cops that Martin had his hand in his waistband and had something in his hand, so he never would have let Martin attack him w/o having pulled his gun out first -if he was actually in fear of him as an attacker. He wasn't in fear of Martin though, because he was armed and ready to shoot him after he egged Martin on to attack him him with a flurry of racial slurs. That attack was Zimmerman's planned cover of self defense for the murder.

70 posted on 03/23/2012 9:49:26 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: neverbluffer
"I think the shooter has already been found guilty because it has become another racial issue..."

The killer of an unarmed kid made it a racial issue when he said, "f'n coons" for the 911 recording.

71 posted on 03/23/2012 9:52:54 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: marktwain
"It would take a sociopath genius to come up with the idea of saying that he was calling for help when it was the other guy."

No, not a genius; just a sociopath. The bad guys generally do that for the crowd to generate, or maintain some fog and cover. Zimmerman had a gun and was already to use it on the person he already indicated to the police he thought was armed and referred to as a "f'n coon".

72 posted on 03/23/2012 10:05:22 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: PapaBear3625

The too quick to lie for race baiting purposes females will have blood on their hands when other less discerning black punks decide to ‘get even with whitey’. What Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackasson have created is a ‘race chip on the shoulder, thug wannabe class of blacks’ who are as useless as teets n a boar hog but who can be herded to riot and mayhem and vote for democrats like the blind doofuses they have been raised to be. Now, for reference, this is not the case for black people who have been active in raising their children to have discernment and seek an education TO BETTER THEMSELVES rather than wait for the federal democrap oligarchy to feed them from their stash!


73 posted on 03/23/2012 10:48:54 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: wtc911

Known truth: You are an agitprop race bating troll stinking up Freerepublic for a hidden agenda that is not so hidden anymore.


74 posted on 03/23/2012 10:51:46 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: wtc911

Known truth: You are an agitprop race baiting troll stinking up Freerepublic for a hidden agenda that is not so hidden anymore.


75 posted on 03/23/2012 10:52:05 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: wtc911

Your post #59 is excellent. It’s exactly what I’ve thought. Trayvon reasonably felt menaced.

I won’t speculate on whether or not Zimmerman “caught up with Martin...,” or not, but I will maintain, as I have said all along, that Zimmerman, through his ill-advised action of getting out of his vehicle with a weapon to confront Martin, precipitated the events that followed.
Does that mean Zimmerman is a murderer by legal definition? No. A jury trial must sort that out.


76 posted on 03/23/2012 11:03:13 AM PDT by Clara Lou (ABO! Go Newt!)
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To: MHGinTN
You are an agitprop race baiting troll stinking up Freerepublic for a hidden agenda that is not so hidden anymore.
Why?? Because you don't share his point of view?? By the way, what is his "agenda"? I ask because I find his view point plausible. Yours, on the other hand, is quite intolerant.
77 posted on 03/23/2012 11:09:21 AM PDT by Clara Lou (ABO! Go Newt!)
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To: neverbluffer

On another forum someone copied recent FB photos of Martin and he had “gang” expressions and looked like a typical thug. Had been suspended from school.


78 posted on 03/23/2012 11:16:28 AM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Clara Lou
;^) ... You made my day outing yourself that way. Thanks so much
79 posted on 03/23/2012 11:28:33 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Clara Lou; MHGinTN

MHGinTN is absolutely correct and numerous people on FR know it as well.

>http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next<

From the Charleston Conservative Examiner:

1. The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
2. The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
3. Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
4. Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

Trayvon Martin was a towering 6’2” football player.


80 posted on 03/23/2012 11:30:42 AM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: MHGinTN

But, again, I ask you to tell me what the agenda is that you attribute to him. I’d like the opportunity to see the error of my ways, if he does, indeed, have an agenda that I didn’t detect. =)


81 posted on 03/23/2012 11:52:12 AM PDT by Clara Lou (ABO! Go Newt!)
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To: Clara Lou
Why?? Because you don't share his point of view??

MHGinTN doesn't share your view because he is being unbiased and intelligent about what actual facts are known and unknown. I can't help but wonder why you two and many others insist on interjecting speculative scenarios to suit the conclusion that you have simple mindedly chosen defend.
82 posted on 03/23/2012 11:53:31 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 ! We should take off and Newt washington from orbit.)
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To: ZX12R

Excuse me, but you’ll have a very, very difficult time finding any post by me in which I’ve adhered to speculative scenarios. Please. Find me “in forum,” and find such a post.

My only position is that Zimmerman’s decision to exit his vehicle with a weapon precipitated what followed. If he’d never gotten out to follow, as he was advised not to do, he’d never have shot Martin. Period.


83 posted on 03/23/2012 12:10:26 PM PDT by Clara Lou (ABO! Go Newt!)
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To: little jeremiah

a “towering” young man < a short guy with a loaded gun


84 posted on 03/23/2012 12:13:41 PM PDT by Clara Lou (ABO! Go Newt!)
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To: Clara Lou
My only position is that Zimmerman’s decision to exit his vehicle with a weapon precipitated what followed. If he’d never gotten out to follow, as he was advised not to do, he’d never have shot Martin. Period.

None of those things you say he did are against the law. Do you understand that someone actually has to break the law before a crime is committed? What you think he should or shouldn't have done, is not pertinent to whether he committed a crime or not. Based on the actual evidence available, which is very little, none of it suggests that Zimmerman is guilty of any crime.

Your assertion about not doing any speculating is frankly just too stupid to address.
85 posted on 03/23/2012 12:28:14 PM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 ! We should take off and Newt washington from orbit.)
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To: ZX12R
My, god. Please read before responding. I didn't say Zimmerman did ANYTHING but get out of his vehicle with a weapon. I did not say he committed a crime. YOU can't find a place where I said he committed a crime. Try reading before commenting. Again, I know it's no fun, but read before responding!
86 posted on 03/23/2012 12:34:41 PM PDT by Clara Lou (ABO! Go Newt!)
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To: wtc911

Sorry, but some of your “truths” there just aren’t. Zimmerman was on foot when he was looking for Martin, not in his car. I haven’t seen anything that says Martin ran away, but only that Z lost sight of him. Part of the 911 call has Z saying that M was coming back toward him for a confrontation (which did then happen).

Apparently there’s a number of witnesses. I think I’ll wait until -after- the evidence is in to make a decision about who I believe. Right now I’m perfectly willing to believe either side.


87 posted on 03/23/2012 12:48:48 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: Ramius
Sorry, but some of your “truths” there just aren’t. Zimmerman was on foot when he was looking for Martin, not in his car. I haven’t seen anything that says Martin ran away, but only that Z lost sight of him. Part of the 911 call has Z saying that M was coming back toward him for a confrontation (which did then happen).

______________________________________

Nope. everything I label known or a truth is directly supported by released PD records, tapes and released cell phone call records.

A link to the complete "911" call by Zimmerman was posted here last night. It is worth tracking down and listening to for a couple of reasons.

For one, it clears up the supposed racial slur - Zimmerman says effin punk, not effin coon. It also creates a timeline that goes like this...

Zimmerman calls from the car --- describes Martin --- says Martin is looking at him --- says Martin is approaching him --- says Martin is 'coming to check me out' --- says 'these assholes always get away --- says "he's running" --- gets out of the car and starts to follow --- the dispatcher says 'we don't need you to do that --- says "he ran"....the rest is Zimmerman giving directions to dispatcher. There is nothing more about Martin after Zimmerman states, "he ran".

Police statements say that Zimmerman started in his car.

As I said above --- everything I call 'known' is from released LEO records. You can check them out yourself or not.

88 posted on 03/23/2012 2:10:21 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Clara Lou

Don’t worry about MGH...he’s still pissed at me for not kissing palin’s ring. I ignore him.


89 posted on 03/23/2012 2:13:15 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Clara Lou; kabar

From another thread, courtesy kabar:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2862676/posts?page=401#401

Here is what the police said:

Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this investigation?

Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman, “Are you following him?” Zimmerman replied, “Yes.” The call taker stated, “You don’t need to do that.”

The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer, when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.

Here is what was contained in a statement by Zimmerman’s father:

“The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate. Out of respect for the on-going investigation, I will not discuss specifics. However, the media reports of the events are imaginary at best. At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event become public, and I hope that will be soon, everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media.

But you seem to be intent on defending the indefensible, so it’s not surprising you “don’t give a sh*t” what anyone says. Something to think about though is that Zimmerman was unconcerned about being recorded by 911 saying things like the a-holes are always getting away with it and referring to “them” as “f-cking coons.” This points directly to his state of mind and it wasn’t a good one.

Here is the transcript of the call:

Dispatcher: “Do you need police, fire or medical?” [Someone corrected this to be “Sanford Police Department”]

Zimmerman: “We had some break-ins in our neighborhood ... and there is a real suspicious guy. ... This guy looks like he’s up to no good, he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining, and he’s walking around looking about. “

Dispatcher: “Is this guy white, black, Hispanic?”

Zimmerman: “He looks black.”

Dispatcher: “Did you see what he’s wearing?”

Zimmerman: “A dark hoodie, grey hoodie, jeans or sweatpants or white shoes. He’s walking around staring at the houses. Now he’s just staring at me.”

Dispatcher: “Location?”

Zimmerman: “He’s near the clubhouse right now. Now he’s coming towards me. He has his hands in his waistband. He is a black male. Something’s wrong with him. Yep. He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Send officers over here.”

Dispatcher: “Let me know if he does anything else.”

Zimmerman: “These a**holes, they always get away. When you come in go straight to the left ... when you pass the clubhouse ...”

Dispatcher: “Clubhouse?”

Zimmerman: “Go straight in. Oh, s***. He’s running ... down towards the other entrance of neighborhood.”

Dispatcher: “He’s running? Which way is he running?”

Zimmerman: “Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.”

Dispatcher: “Which entrance is that, that he is running towards?

Zimmerman: “The back entrance.” [inaudible]

Dispatcher: “Are you following him?”

Zimmerman: “Yeah.”

Dispatcher: “OK. We don’t need you to do that. What’s your name?”

Zimmerman: “George. Zimmerman.”

Dispatcher: “Do you want to meet with the officer ...”

Zimmerman: “Tell them to come past the clubhouse and make a left then past mailboxes and they will see my truck ...”

Dispatcher: “What’s your apartment number?”

Zimmerman: “It’s a home. ... I don’t want to give that out. I don’t know where this kid is.”

Dispatcher: “I will let them know where to meet you.”

Zimmerman: “Have them call me, and I will let you know where I’m at.”

From the police:

When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.

“The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.”


90 posted on 03/23/2012 2:32:31 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: marktwain
Martin appears to be around 14 in all of the photos I've seen. It's entirely possible that these are recent photos.

But....could the media be intentionally using photos that are old?

91 posted on 03/23/2012 2:41:06 PM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: GSWarrior; marktwain

Someone on TB2 found a couple of more recent photos, link to the thread since I have no clue how to copy them here:

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?401292-Black-kid-carrying-skittles-in-gated-community.-Hilarity-did-NOT-ensue!!./page8

Comment 289 by KathyinFL.

If anyone knows how to copy onto the thread it would be informative.


92 posted on 03/23/2012 3:23:25 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: GSWarrior
But....could the media be intentionally using photos that are old?

And could it be that the Matin patisans are very careful not to release anything that interferes with the narrative that they are pushing?

I think the MSM loves that narrative.

93 posted on 03/23/2012 3:32:53 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: wtc911
In this tape Zimmerman describes Martin running away

Yes, at one point. And at another point he describes Martin as seeing him, and approaching him.

94 posted on 03/23/2012 3:38:59 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
"In this tape Zimmerman describes Martin running away"

Yes, at one point. And at another point he describes Martin as seeing him, and approaching him.

________________________________

And then running away...listen to the damn tape...the last mention of martin is, and I quote, "HE RAN".

95 posted on 03/23/2012 3:46:23 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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Comment #96 Removed by Moderator

To: PhilDragoo

Well well WELL well well.


97 posted on 03/23/2012 4:53:08 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: PhilDragoo

From all the photos I’ve seen, I thought Little Skittles was a 12 year old boy.


98 posted on 03/23/2012 4:57:02 PM PDT by Godebert (NO PERSON EXCEPT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!)
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To: PhilDragoo; GSWarrior; marktwain

Pinging you to the photos.


99 posted on 03/23/2012 4:57:08 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: little jeremiah
I don't think it's too tough. Trayvon was going to fix things.
100 posted on 03/23/2012 5:08:19 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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