Posted on 03/22/2012 9:03:25 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
Ever since his CPAC Keynote Address in 2010, Rep. Allen West (R-FL) has been one of the gold standards of modern American political conservatism. He has also been widely hailed as a political model for conservative African American politicians. And now, following recent revelations surrounding the highly suspicious shooting of Trayvon Martin, Rep. West has joined a growing bipartisan consensus calling for the case to be reopened, possibly even with Federal assistance. West’s statement, put out today by Talking Points Memo, resonates with controlled fury (emphasis added):
itself in Sanford, Florida involving the shooting of 17-year-old Treyvon Martin. First of all, if all that has been reported is accurate, the Sanford Police Chief should be relieved of his duties due to what appears to be a mishandling of this shooting in its early stages. The US Navy SEALS identified Osama Bin Laden within hours, while this young man laid on a morgue slab for three days. The shooter, Mr Zimmerman, should have been held in custody and certainly should not be walking free, still having a concealed weapons carry permit. From my reading, it seems this young man was pursued and there was no probable cause to engage him, certainly not pursue and shoot him….against the direction of the 911 responder. Let’s all be appalled at this instance not because of race, but because a young American man has lost his life, seemingly, for no reason. I have signed a letter supporting a DOJ investigation. I am not heading to Sanford to shout and scream, because we need the responsible entities and agencies to handle this situation from this point without media bias or undue political influences. This is an outrage.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
I guess I'll have to school you. My sarcasm wasn't framed as an argument. I thought that was obvious.
Obtuse too! You don’t have much to work with, do you. That’s just sad.
You are emotionally hysterical and so blinded that you can't see the plain facts in front of your face. I will make one more attempt and then I give up.
There is absolutely ZERO evidence that Mr. Zimmerman initiated any contact with Mr. Martin. None - and I defy you to provide any such evidence. In fact, the evidence clearly shows Mr. Zimmerman did exactly what he was supposed to do which is inform the police and wait for their assistance. He did start to follow him when he ran, but when told it wasn't necessary by the police he said OKAY and stopped.
I don't know how much plainer it can be and why you are so obtuse. Do you really have that much trouble admitting that you got caught up in the hype and may have misjudged the situation?
Obtuse was post #2.
You could very well be right; I don’t know. Still, it doesn’t argue against my key point. Zimmerman DID allow the situation to get out of hand, to escalate way beyond what it should have.
I won’t claim to be the expert here on Neighborhood Watch procedures; far from it. All I know is....if you have a weapon strapped to your body and you go out to reconnoiter, guard, protect, watch, whatever you want to call it....be very, VERY careful. Keep your distance, use that cell phone, press 911 if necessary, and be prepared to protect yourself, others, etc. until the cops come...but do not deliberately insert yourself into a confrontation where someone could get killed.
Someone got killed here.
He makes more sense you than you and his analogy at #149 is very likely close what occurred, based on what is being reported.
“very little is being said about Martin and whether he has had some prior run ins with the law or school authorities.”
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Trayvon Martin had no arrest record or disciplinary action for violence as a student in North Miami’s Krop High School.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136&page=2
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I can understand why Zimmerman was suspicious of Trayvon. The kid is visiting, so he isn’t a familiar resident to Zimmerman. It is 7:11 pm when Zimmerman first calls police about Trayvon (sunset that day was at 6:22, so it was headed on dark-o-clock) It also had been raining off and on from about 3pm that afternoon.
It was raining and almost dark when an unknown person is walking around this gated community. Zimmerman notices him and starts following, Trayvon notices Zimmerman and pulls his hoodie up. That, too, would create more suspicion for Zimmerman, not less.
Trayvon is meandering and talking to his girlfriend on the phone (call started at 7:12), which Zimmerman apparently mistook as Trayvon scoping out homes and maybe being ‘drugged up’.
What is confusing is we know Trayvon went to the 7-11 and had an Arizonia Iced Tea, Skittles and a phone. He also pulls his hoodie up (needs hands for that). At one point Zimmerman says Trayvon has his hands in his waistband. OK, maybe the phone is in his pocket and we know he has a headset. Where’s the tea and Skittles, in his hoodie through-pocket? Then what was whatever he had in his hand that Zimmerman mentions? All that doesn’t make sense to me. Or at least I can’t quite work it out in my mind.
BUT, I do believe it is Trayvon that initiates the confrontation. Trayvon asks “What are you following me for?” Then Zimmerman asks “ What are you doing here?” —no reply, a fight ensues but the girlfriend can’t see who starts it....
“Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for?’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here?’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.”
Then the line went dead, she said.
Actually, you are the one who is emotional and histerical and blinded. Facts? Such as, the 17 year old was not engaged in any criminal behavior? Facts? Such as Zimmerman, on the 911 logs, stated he was following the 17 year old (by way of leaving his truck). Facts? Such as the police dispatch told Zimmerman he did NOT need to follow the 17 year old? Are those the FACTS you're speaking of? Or, do you have some facts that no one else in the world has or have reported which definitively demonstrated who initiated the confrontation? That is the most important element from what I can tell. Who is responsible for initiating the physical confrontation which led to Zimmerman shooting the 17 year old? Why is it wrong to want to know that one piece of information which has not been established?
It was speculation and a hunch.
I figure Martin would not have started beating him about the head while Zimmerman was on his back, if Zimmerman already had the weapon in his hand to begin with. That would seem very unlikely. Hence, he likely pulled and shot Martin while calling for help as he was being being beaten.
Agree, Zimmerman probably should have kept his distance, but I understand, Martin approached Zimmerman. Again, Martin likely would not have approached/attacked Zimmerman if Zimmerman already had the gun in his hand. This would seem very unlikely.
Just a hunch.
No, I wasn’t there as I have stated in another post, the same post in which I stated that I am guessing what happened because I wasn’t there, and because the media is only presenting it biased side of the story.
Why don’t you read it, or is your head in the sand?
I was simply paraphrasing form the pdf police report.
Furthermore, it’s quite obvious that the police believe his side of the story, or he would be in jail, wouldn’t he? Yes, yes he would.
And I don’t fear an outside investigation, but I’ll say right here and now that the Departmant of Black Justice can go **** itself, and so can the Black Panthers, and so can Al Sharpton, and so can Louis Farakan.
But I’m not going to tell you to do that, because you have simply bought into the media driven frenzy on this, and while it pisses me off, I can understand that.
What I am going to tell you is that the media and the government is purposely trying to turn this justified homicide into a hate crime murder, and it’s hoping for riots, and I suggest you wake up.
I'll try to be gentle here. When one stakes a position that is opposite to the postion of another, that is an argument. It is quite obvious from your initial post to me that you disagreed with my post #2. And, you made that argument through the use of sarcasm. Sarcasm is a weak argument as you have presented nothing beyond the sarcasm. Your obtuseness has required that you receive this lesson. Now that you're better educated, perhaps you'll find some way to mount a more constructive position. But, I won't be holding my breath.
Which means Martin was not looking for a confrontation, which only gives credence to that it was Zimmerman looking for the confrontation.
Whatever.
I didn't stake a position opposite to yours.
It is quite obvious from your initial post to me that you disagreed with my post #2.
I didn't disagree with it. There was nothing to disagree with in a statement of arrogant supposition such as yours. You can't educate someone until you receive one of your own. It doesn't appear that you will ever go down that road.
Because, police are infallible and never make mistakes, right? That would be the reason that numerous cases of wrongly convicted individuals released from prison years later exist. Prosecutors never make mistakes either, correct. That is why the Goldman and Brown families found justice in the conviction of O.J. Simpson - oh, wait! Never mind.
No, I've NOT bought into the media hype that is being fueled by the race-baiters. I'm asking questions about an incident where all the answers are not yet given. If it is the case that the 17 year old was the aggressor, then so be it. He brought fists to a gun fight. But, I feel it is important to know for sure whether Zimmerman initiated the aggressive behavior or not. Those who are attemmpting to, yet again, inject racism into this for political purposes can go to hell.
According to many of the Freepers, if they had an agitated man come up to them yelling at them, ordering them to tell him their name and the reason for their being out, in the middle of the night, they’d be perfectly secure in having a conversation with this gentleman.
Sick of the race pimps. As soon as Al Sharpton or the Black Panthers support one side I am immediately against it no matter the issue. Little Trayvon wasnt so innocent you should see his facebook page its still up, with photos of other thugs throwing up gangs signs etc. Im for the 2nd amendment, alot of people are getting sick and tired of the ways things are. I dont have to spell it out you all know what I mean. Tired of double standards and coddling.
My God you’re dense. There’s no hope here. Have a good life, if you’re able.
Generally, if someone is looking for a confrontation, the first thing they don't do, is call 911 to report an incident/call for help.
Regardless if he continued to locate or follow Martin, would not give Martin the right to attack/beat on Zimmerman. In the preliminary report it stated Zimmerman was treated at the scene and was bleeding from his nose and head.
Police operator (translated from cop speak) "Don't do that"
Zimmerman (frustrated) "These a***holes always get away" "Have the cops call me to find out where i am when they arrive"
Your post is a perfect example of how a story gets totally distorted from the truth.
First, you are correct that Zimmerman pursues Martin when he starts to run. The dispatcher asked if he was pursuing and Zimmerman replies yes. Dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman replies OKAY.
The statement about a**holes getting away was made BEFORE Martin started running, not during the 20-30 seconds Zimmerman pursued him.
Worst of all is your complete distortion of Zimmerman's request for the police to call him to tell them where to meet him. The dispatcher was discussing where Zimmerman should meet the police when they arrive and asked Zimmerman's address. Zimmerman hesistated saying he DIDN'T KNOW where Martin was and was afraid to give out his address so he asked to have the police call his phone.
Now my question to you is - are you just repeating what you heard without actually listening to the actual call yourself or are you deliberately distorting the facts to support an agenda?
I am dense? You’re the one who contradicted post #2 completely. LOL
Generally, if someone is looking for a confrontation, the first thing they don't do, is call 911 to report an incident/call for help.
Regardless if he continued to locate or follow Martin, would not give Martin the right to attack/beat on Zimmerman. In the preliminary report it stated Zimmerman was treated at the scene and was bleeding from his nose and head.
#170 was the incorrect quote, not by you, my mistake.
I don’t think it was racially motivated. I think Zimmerman just didn’t practice good sense and proper security measures.
Apparently this is the case. Some appear to either forget, or ingnore, or be inconsiderate of the fact that when one legally carries a firearm there comes great responsibility. To allow a situation, in which there was no need to escalate it to the level of a confrontation in the first place, to deteriorate to the point where he felt the need to use his firearm was, at the least, ill-advised.
By the way, this is what I meant by “weasel phrases”. Please don’t think I mean to call you a weasel, or even to imply you’re doing it on purpose. This way of speaking clouds thinking and obscures fact finding:
“As I stated, there’s conflicting information. What is accurate and what is not needs to be determined.”
By whom? Who is this impartial person you want to do an investigation? And why in this case? Are there other police investigations you think should be re-investigated by this impartial person?
“If I initiate a confrontation with another person, who begins to beat me, do I not bear responsibility at any level for what happens?”
What do you mean by initiate a confrontation? Words? Following someone? Are there types of responsibility that aren’t criminal? Could someone make a decision that, in retrospect wasn’t the best, but that isn’t illegal?
“Is that what happened in this case? Would it not be prudent to keep the discussion to the issue instead of contriving an apple to compare to an orange?”
Nice try. YOU said:
“If I initiate a confrontation with another person, who begins to beat me, do I not bear responsibility at any level for what happens?”
I was responding to YOUR hypothetical event, and using YOUR hypothetical event to ask what you meant by “initiating a confrontation” and giving an example of how your term could be applied in a way that obviously did not warrant a violent response.
“...the media and the government is purposely trying to turn this justified homicide into a hate crime murder”
This is so apparent to some of us, and it is frustrating that others who know full well what the media does every day refuse to see it.
I guaran-damn-tee you if any mistake was made in this case it would have been found or it’s gonna be found.
Furthermore, just because one party is dead and cannot tesitify to what happened does not mean the other party is lying. if that was the case, then no homicide would ever be justifiable, and certainly some of them are.
But again, I don’t fear or resent the details of the case being gone over 1,000 times. I do resent the Department of Black Justice getting involved. I resent that very much.
I don’t hope for young people to be shot dead, and I am pretty certain that Zimmerman doesn’t hope for young people to be shot dead, and I’m totally certain the cops don’t hope for such, and they don’t excuse such.
The fact that this man hasn’t been arrested by this point SPEAKS LOUDER THAN ANY OF THESE ****ING RACE PIMPS, SoldierDad.
I, for one, am not for destroying an innocent man’s life on the alter of race, I’m just not going to do it, to Hell with that. :(
Alas, Martin was not up to snuff on his situational awareness and self-defense skills. Perhaps, if he had been, he'd be still alive, and the village would be short an idiot, shot by his own gun!
Col. West for VP!
Amen, sir, Amen.
I’m so frustrated over this. I may be getting close to outright anger.
This is truly a sign of our country unraveling and being torn apart.
God help us all.
What a stupid ****ing post.
Jesus Christ.
For all you know, Zimmerman was simply following Martin so when the cops responded on scene, he could tell them where Martin was or was last seen. If Zimmerman was suddenly attacked by Martin, how would Zimmerman have known in advance this would occur simply because he was following someone?
Obtuse: 1. not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull . 2. not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form. 3. (of a leaf, petal, etc.) rounded
' I'll leave you with the advice that you seek help.
Opinion based on what?
Tell your hyperbole to all those who have been released from prison after years of being incarcerated for crimes they were innocent of. You, sir, have not the power to guarantee anything about this case or any other case.
Probably MSNBC and CNN conservative hating 24/7 networks. Sick of all of the Obama worshipers.
As to my hysteria level - I leave that to the judgment of others on the forum.
So far, nobody has presented any evidence the kid is a criminal. Since it’s been about a week, I think it’s safe to say that he wad simply a kid who had been walking home to his father’s house after buying his goods at the local convenience store and nothing more.
You haven’t been paying attention or keeping up?
Isn't that interesting?.? Prior to this request to have Holder's Homies to tale over this investigation, I felt much the same, or even wished for him to run for President.
Now I feel that he disqualified himself by potentially inflaming a racially charged incident by asking for a Federal investigation before the State be allowed to prove themselves honorable and competent Vs. corrupt / incompetent in the investigation first.
Oh, I’m far beyond you.
Go ahead and answer the half dozen questions I’ve ask.
post #2Local authorities did a lousy job of investigating the incident, and there needs to be a thorough and unbiased investigation.
A statement of absolute certainty directly implying your knowledge of the facts.
As I stated, there’s conflicting information. What is accurate and what is not needs to be determined.
A statement indicating no certain knowledge of the facts.
Yep, you contradicted yourself completely. Undoubtedly you are too obtuse, dense and need to much help to understand it but there it is in black and white.
Witness have said Martin was on top, beating Z.
Z had injuries/bleeding from the nose and head. If Martin initiated the physical violence, is that not criminal?
As I'm sure your therapist has told you that is a wonderful example of projection.
I’ve seen over the course of the past 7 years probably hundreds of unknown individuals walking, biking, skateboarding, rollerblading, driving, etc, etc, through my neighborhood. No one has yet shot and killed a single one. I live in a neighborhood which is predominately white. We’ve had people of all colors, races, creeds, etc that have gone up and down our street. Yet, no one’s been beaten up, shot, nor killed. It is a poor argument that it is okay to stalk, and then shoot someone for the simple reason of being somemone who isn’t know to the person doing the shooting. Here’s some facts you should consider. There is a dead 17 year old. There has been no evidence presented which supports the contention that the 17 year was doing or had done or was going to do anything illegal. Are you suggesting that you are fine with these facts?
Hmmm. Projection. Funny you should mention that.
“””Reports I’ve heard indicated that the firearm was NOT taken and processed.”””
You haven’t been paying attention or keeping up?
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http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf
See page 4 of 4.
It clearly stated the weapon was “Collected and placed into evidence
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Please, try and keep up Mr. Dad
Based on my dealings with people, including quite a few sketchies, if you’re peaceful, they will be peaceful. While nothing is guaranteed, I have difficulty with the idea that Zimmerman was perfectly peaceful in his approach and Martin just simply spazzed out and started swinging.
That is not credible, imo.
Funny you should ignore it. And the dozen questions on this thread you are ignoring in favor of replying to me. LOL
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