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Kirk Cameron: "I've Become Concerned About the World Our Kids Are Growing Up In"
Townhall.com ^ | March 27, 2012 | John Hanlon

Posted on 03/27/2012 6:35:54 AM PDT by Kaslin

Growing Pains actor Kirk Cameron thinks that America is off track. He’s concerned about our country’s future and he believes that we have to look to history to find “the secret sauce” that made our nation so great in the first place. With that in mind, his new documentary Monumental focuses on Cameron’s attempt to retrace our Pilgrim’s journey in order to better understand how our nation came into being.

I recently had a chance to talk to Cameron about his new movie and the reasons he made it.

Cameron’s reason for making the film is evident even in the movie’s trailer where he states that “something is sick in the soul of our country.” But when I talked to him, the discussion became very personal. He told me that as a father of six, he’s “become concerned about the world that our kids are growing up in.” He said that when we look around the country, we see “16 trillion dollars in debt, and you see families falling apart, you see homelessness and teenage pregnancy, and suicide and crime…”

Some see such problems and play the blame game but Cameron had another idea. “Instead of listening to everyone blame one another with the right blaming the left and the left blaming the right,” he decided to search for the keys to our nation’s greatness. He retraced the "escape route of the Pilgrims" and talked to historians about the tremendous obstacles that stood in their path as they fought for freedom. And as he notes in the film, the Pilgrims were far more courageous and resilient than many people give them credit for.

Cameron hopes that the film gets viewers more interested and excited in the history of our country. When I asked about his goals for the movie, he said that he wants "people’s eyes to be opened to the real history of our country.”

“I want people to understand the recipe for freedom and blessing and prosperity and I want people to be inspired by the stories of courage and sacrifice and selflessness,” he added.

And he was quick to note that “the history of the world is the story of people getting off track” so we are not facing a unique situation. History is full of people who took their history and freedom for granted, he said. And he argued that we can’t ever take those things for granted and we can’t wait for others to solve our own problems.

“We shouldn’t wait around and wait for the government to fix the problems of our country…we should fix them ourselves.” And as a born-again Christian, he added that faith in God is a good place to start.

In publicizing the film, Cameron has faced some tough questions about his own faith. While on Piers Morgan’s show a few weeks ago, the actor was confronted with questions about morality, homosexuality and abortion. And Cameron told me that he was unprepared for such questions and he was surprised how “disingenuous Morgan was.” Cameron told me that he went on the show to talk about his movie, not his personal religious beliefs.

His appearance and his statement that homosexuality is “unnatural” caused a lot of controversy but when I talked to Cameron, he was more focused on his film but he noted that as a Christian, he’s “called to love all people and not hate anybody and I don’t.”

Cameron’s new movie Monumental will be screened tonight in limited theaters as a one- night engagement. Click here to find a theater closest to you and also make sure you check out Townhall.com’s own Daniel Doherty interview Cameron at CPAC 2012.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: christianheritage; documentary; hollywood; kirkcameron; monumental; moviereview
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1 posted on 03/27/2012 6:35:57 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin
a Christian, he’s “called to love all people and not hate anybody and I don’t.”

Very nice. I'm a Catholic and I don't have the energy to pretend that I don't hate 'em.

2 posted on 03/27/2012 6:40:35 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (obamacare is an oxymoron.)
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To: Kaslin

I think I am becoming a bigger fan the more I hear.


3 posted on 03/27/2012 6:41:34 AM PDT by impimp
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To: Kaslin
I've met the man, and he is an awesome messenger of the love of Jesus Christ.

(Now back to read the article! :)

4 posted on 03/27/2012 6:42:54 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Kaslin

You seem to be one of a very few, Mr. Cameron...


5 posted on 03/27/2012 6:45:12 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Kaslin
He said that when we look around the country, we see “16 trillion dollars in debt, and you see families falling apart, you see homelessness and teenage pregnancy, and suicide and crime…”

Well, Kirk, as concerns the bolded part, you might as well look in the mirror. That divorce-porn movie you made--Fireproof--wrapped up feminist ideology in a thin pseudo-Christian veneer, all with the clear feminist-inspired theme: If a woman can't control her husband's behavior and get him to do everything she wants, she just needs to threaten to divorce him. And, oh, yeah, she's justified in withholding sex in order to control her mate (1 Cor. 7:5 notwithstanding). She is also free to start an affair while still married so long as her husband looked at naked boobies on the interwebs. And when it is all over, she has no need to apologize to her husband, much less repent.

Seriously, Kirk. Look in the mirror, buddy.

6 posted on 03/27/2012 6:46:22 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: Kaslin
And Cameron told me that he was unprepared for such questions and he was surprised how “disingenuous Morgan was.” Cameron told me that he went on the show to talk about his movie, not his personal religious beliefs.

The leftist agenda is always disingenous, Kirk.

There was only one gaol in Piers' deceptive, leftist mind - to discredit Christianity, morality, American values, and YOU, who represent them so well.

7 posted on 03/27/2012 6:47:32 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: ohioWfan

He is an awesome messenger for Christ.

I’m starting to have some concerns, though, that he’s gone “post-millenial” or even to the point of becoming “dominionist”,

where it is up to Christians to Christianize the world,
instead of the fact that the world is going to continue to get worse until Christ Himself comes to redeem it.

I can understand the concern of having your kids growing up in a steadily worsening world getting more evil all the time,
but there’s nothing any of us mortals can do about it.


8 posted on 03/27/2012 6:48:00 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Thane_Banquo
Are you serious??

No. You can't be serious!

Fireproof?? Divorce-porn?? LOL!

9 posted on 03/27/2012 6:49:35 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: ohioWfan
The leftist agenda is always disingenous

It rather must, for several reasons. First and foremost, because of its satanic origin. And secondly, because decent folks (the current but diminishing majority) would reject it and not allow it to advance.

10 posted on 03/27/2012 6:50:40 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB
I'm not too concerned about his eschatalogical positions, MrB.

He uses his platform to talk about the love of Jesus Christ, and the redemption that comes only through HIM.

He's the real deal.

I'm not bothered that he's trying to do his part to make the world a little better for his kids. Actually, for his kids' sake, I'm glad he hasn't given up.

11 posted on 03/27/2012 6:53:02 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: ohioWfan

Fireproof was about the MAN,
living up to his Eph 5 obligations,

not about the woman. That above take on the movie was pretty twisted to say the least. I’m not laughing a bit, just looking at it quizzically, like the RCA dog.


12 posted on 03/27/2012 6:53:28 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: ohioWfan

I understand your point, and I respect him as well.

You will live your life differently depending on your escatology, though.


13 posted on 03/27/2012 6:54:42 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Thane_Banquo
Just speechless from your comments!

.....Fireproof (from the book of the same name) is a wonderful uplifting movie......

Your perspective is topsy turvy......I'm sorry to say.

It's a movie about redemption and it's beautiful.

14 posted on 03/27/2012 6:57:19 AM PDT by Guenevere (....Whom God calls,... He equips......Press On Santorum!)
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To: Kaslin
I'm excited to be seeing this movie..MONUMENTAL....tonight!

We're on vacation and it's playing in the town where we're staying.

I heard Cameron talk about this on F & F the other day and he was awesome!!!....so genuine, so real.

15 posted on 03/27/2012 7:00:16 AM PDT by Guenevere (....Whom God calls,... He equips......Press On Santorum!)
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To: MrB
I'm not going to get into a debate here about it, but I think it's not wise to be an absolutist about any interpretation of the end times, because every position is based on the understanding of Scripture of a finite mind.

The only way our eschatology should affect our lives is that we all should know that we need to be ready, to live for Christ, to share the Gospel, and to love others, because we know "the rest of the story."

Whether we are post-Millenial, pre-Trib, or any other position, we all need to be living for Christ, and we all fall far short of that.

(Especially when provoked on FR by the nasties! ;*)

16 posted on 03/27/2012 7:04:44 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: MrB
You are exactly right, MrB.

Fireproof was about the man's responsibility to his marriage based on Scripture. I saw it for the first time recently, and the take on it above is indeed 'twisted.'

17 posted on 03/27/2012 7:06:59 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: ohioWfan
The woman in the movie was clearly an unrepentant practitioner of hypergamy, looking to trade up from a poor fireman to a rich doctor. Until the rise of feminism, hypergamy was recognized by human civilization for thousands of years as a common moral weakness in woman--akin to man's moral weakness towards desiring a harem. The movie justifies her hypergamy, on the grounds that he looked at boobies (after she withheld sex) and he yelled at her once.

She never even repents of this, even though he is required to repent of looking at pornography (which he should repent of), even to the point of taking a baseball bat to a computer. No, she never says she's sorry to him for cheating, or for withholding intimacy, or for not respecting him as her husband. The movie repeats the feminist tripe that has now thoroughly infected modern Christendom: "It's always the man's fault."

Read Firebombed, which gives a true Christian perspective on the movie. While the movie goes to great lengths to shame him for looking at porn on the internet (which is a sin), it never criticizes her for driving him to porn by withholding sex. This is exactly the kind of behavior that the Bible warns women against, and for the exact reason that withholding sex can lead a mate to sexual immorality.

Any movie in which both the man and woman sin against God, but the woman's actions are given justification on the grounds of her subjective emotional unhappiness, while the man is required to repent, is by definition not Christian.

18 posted on 03/27/2012 7:07:37 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: MrB
instead of the fact that the world is going to continue to get worse until Christ Himself comes to redeem it.

Many are those who fall into this trap. I am constantly having to remind myself that in the final analysis, the fight of good against evil is not ours to win, but His, and He will win it to His glory. Thus, we can only go so far, even while guided by His Holy Spirit to improve things, even miniscually, and all too temporarily.

We are unable to affect a permanent and positive change because we are still afflicted with our nature, which absolutely precludes such a change, despite any effort we can make...

the infowarrior

19 posted on 03/27/2012 7:15:19 AM PDT by infowarrior
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To: Thane_Banquo

Those are some valid interpretations and something to keep in mind. Porn is going to hurt a marriage and so will a wife’s lack of interest in sex. There’s usually more to it than that, but it is a factor.


20 posted on 03/27/2012 7:16:11 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: Kaslin
we have to look to history to find “the secret sauce” that made our nation so great in the first place

The firehose of rampant liberalism and debauchery (I know... redundant) has long washed that "secret sauce" into the gutter.

21 posted on 03/27/2012 7:19:16 AM PDT by ScottinVA (A single drop of American blood for muslims is one drop too many!)
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To: Thane_Banquo
Well, Kirk, as concerns the bolded part, you might as well look in the mirror. That divorce-porn movie you made—Fireproof—wrapped up feminist ideology in a thin pseudo-Christian veneer, all with the clear feminist-inspired theme: If a woman can't control her husband's behavior and get him to do everything she wants, she just needs to threaten to divorce him.

And, oh, yeah, she's justified in withholding sex in order to control her mate (1 Cor. 7:5 notwithstanding). She is also free to start an affair while still married so long as her husband looked at naked boobies on the interwebs. And when it is all over, she has no need to apologize to her husband, much less repent
Seriously, Kirk. Look in the mirror, buddy.


Millions of men are addicted to porn, especially internet. That part of the movie was to speak to that issue; that God can help men who turn to God for help. (Seriously, Kirk. Look in the mirror buddy) IT”S A MOVIE. He “personally” never had that addiction, but knows that it is an issue today that even Christian men are fighting. People are not perfect, EVERYONE still sins, including Christians. If we say we don't we lie.

His wife was spiritually lost, blind....He was showing unconditional love, not only to save his marriage, but so his spiritually blind wife would also turn to God. I have personal experience with this & know that when you finally do what God tells you to do and trust Him with your spouse, things change. I had it in reverse. My husband was controlling, made me feel worthless, he was sometimes cruel and heartless and flirted with women. I was ready to leave him, but I kept thinking about what this would do to my 3 sons. He was not a Christian. I knew what God wanted me to do; be kind no matter what, pray for him, return good for evil. I did not want to do this because I thought it was totally unfair that he treats me the way he did and now God wants ME to be kind, pray for him. I finally committed to God that I would do this with no conditions, no time limit. Within 3 months my husband, finally, after years of praying, turned to God. He later told me he resented my kindness and would purposely test my limits. He is a wonderful man today. He's not perfect, but neither am I. He works hard and made it possible for me to stay home. He lavishes me with gifts and our marriage is the best of anyone I know. That was the point of the story; to trust God.

His wife, who was not right with God, was not going to act like a Christian because she was not one. She did not respect her husband like God commanded, because she did not know God's commands. She was walking with the world and followed their rules. Maybe they will make a movie for wives. That might make you feel better.


• Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to Himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any blemish, but holy and blameless.

In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church — for we are members of His body. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery-but I am talking about christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. (Ephesians 5:25-33)

22 posted on 03/27/2012 7:22:26 AM PDT by Linda Frances (Only God can change a heart, but we can pray for hearts to be changed)
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To: Guenevere
Instead of looking only at the man in the movie, look at the woman's behavior, compare it to the standard of the Bible, and then ask yourself why she was never required to repent.

Then, read Firebombed, which gives a Christian perspective on the movie. The woman in the movie was a hypergamous woman whose sin--planning to have an affair with another man while still married--was the same sin as her husband committed by looking at pornography: Lust.

As well, she withheld sex from him in order to control him, driving him to pornography, in contravence to the Biblical admonition against withholding intimacy (1 Cor. 7:5). She also clearly had no respect for her husband, in contravence of the Biblical command that wives respect their husbands. Her entire charge against him was that he didn't meet some subjective criteria of creating a state of permanent emotional ecstasy, an obligation even Christian leaders commonly try to put on husbands, but which is entirely absent from the Bible, is entirely selfish, and is also entirely logically impossible.

23 posted on 03/27/2012 7:23:24 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: Thane_Banquo

You make the common mistake of expecting non-Christians to act like Christians. They won’t, and the FICTIONAL wife in the movie was not right with God, and therefore was acting according to the standards of the world.

It is the husband’s responsibility to disciple her. Eph 5.


24 posted on 03/27/2012 7:28:26 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Thane_Banquo

Re: Fireproof

Thanks for the link to the movie review. Sounds like a truly awful movie.


25 posted on 03/27/2012 7:29:40 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: Thane_Banquo

Wow, you took away a COMPLETELY different moral from the “Fireproof” story than I did. I saw a man who was willing to humble himself to his wife in order to save a marriage “instituted by God”. I loved the movie.


26 posted on 03/27/2012 7:29:51 AM PDT by jagusafr ("Write in Palin and prepare for war...")
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To: Thane_Banquo

LOL at “driving him to pornography.” Nobody is DRIVEN to pornography by anything other than their own weakness, whether or not their wife is not getting it on with them.


27 posted on 03/27/2012 7:31:39 AM PDT by alphadoggie
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To: MrB

“where it is up to Christians to Christianize the world,
instead of the fact that the world is going to continue to get worse until Christ Himself comes to redeem it.”

How ‘bout that whole, “Go and make of all disciples” thing? I think Christ was serious about that.


28 posted on 03/27/2012 7:31:39 AM PDT by jagusafr ("Write in Palin and prepare for war...")
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To: Linda Frances
His wife, who was not right with God, was not going to act like a Christian because she was not one. She did not respect her husband like God commanded, because she did not know God's commands. She was walking with the world and followed their rules. Maybe they will make a movie for wives. That might make you feel better.

Unlikely, since 75% of all spending decisions are made by women. But you're only making my point for me. Both were unbelievers. He was driven to repentance. She never was driven to repentance. There is not a single part of the movie that indicates any repentance on her part for her sins, even after they got back together, even after they had a second "wedding" ceremony. Everything is brought to a "happily ever after" moment, without the pre-condition of her repentance. It creates the illusion that she wasn't equally at fault. But her sins were of the same kind as his: Her planning to have an affair with a doctor while still married was the same sin as him looking at pornography. It's called lust. But it's okay for her to do it, because her subjective emotional desires weren't being met.

You're right about pornography. I've had problems there as well. But what about the emotional pornography sold to women in the form of romance novels and Lifetime Network and all that? It's a kind of pornography where women are allowed to fantasize about a man keeping her in a constant and eternal state of emotional ecstasy. It demeans men by making women believe that the entire reason a man exists is to fulfill a woman's subjective and selfish emotional desires. The church actually encourages this kind of pornography, with Christian booksellers churning out tons of Christian romance novels and movies. This is porn for women, pure and simple. Both are based in lust, but the lust expresses itself in different ways. We wink at one form while rightly condemning the other. Why?

29 posted on 03/27/2012 7:32:27 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: Thane_Banquo

Instead of looking only at the man in the movie, look at the woman’s behavior, compare it to the standard of the Bible, and then ask yourself why she was never required to repent.
Then, read Firebombed, which gives a Christian perspective on the movie. The woman in the movie was a hypergamous woman whose sin—planning to have an affair with another man while still married—was the same sin as her husband committed by looking at pornography: Lust.

As well, she withheld sex from him in order to control him, driving him to pornography, in contravence to the Biblical admonition against withholding intimacy (1 Cor. 7:5). She also clearly had no respect for her husband, in contravence of the Biblical command that wives respect their husbands. Her entire charge against him was that he didn’t meet some subjective criteria of creating a state of permanent emotional ecstasy, an obligation even Christian leaders commonly try to put on husbands, but which is entirely absent from the Bible, is entirely selfish, and is also entirely logically impossible.


The wife was spiritually lost. She did not know God’s laws. She was acting like the world acts, the reason divorce is so high in this country.

I read this story yesterday about the lost;

Chuck Colson tells the story of Ron Greer, an ex-convict who was rehabilitated through Colson’s Prison Fellowship ministry. Greer, who became a pastor after serving his time, was once interrupted by a group of gay activists as he was conducting a church service. The activists were disrespectful and disruptive. They shouted obscenities and urinated on the restroom floors. They even went so far as to throw condoms on a prayer altar.

The pastor, who had preached that homosexual behavior contradicts the Bible, stood and smiled as the service-crashers carried on. Later, he was asked by the press why he didn’t get angry. Greer said, “I have no more reason to get angry with them than if a blind man stepped on my foot” (see Romans 12:14).

The pastor’s response reminds me of how Jesus responded even as He was being nailed to the cross by Roman soldiers. If there was ever a time to get angry and spew out some verbal venom, that was it. Instead, Jesus uttered this prayer: “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing” (Luke 23:34).

Like Jesus, this pastor recognized that those who verbally attack us—because of our beliefs—are often unaware. They say ugly things because they’re in a self-deceived state that leads them to oppose God and us. They are misguided souls in need of God’s grace and truth. And we must respond with love if we hope to win them over to Jesus and the truth that will set them free.

We should guard against getting defensive and angry at those who verbally attack us because of our beliefs. Getting mad and resorting to their harsh tactics is not the way of Jesus (Romans 12:17). Instead, we can honor Him by striving to “conquer evil by doing good” (Romans 12:21).


30 posted on 03/27/2012 7:33:41 AM PDT by Linda Frances (Only God can change a heart, but we can pray for hearts to be changed)
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To: Thane_Banquo
I recently watched this movie and kind of see your point, though I suspect those things were completely unintential on the producers' part (a flaw nonethelesss).

The biggest problems with Fireproof are performance-based Christianity (grace/blessings in exchange for doing good/avoiding sin), flat acting, cliche-ridden dialogue and the film's pacing. The porn thing lacked credibility because, well...Cameron's movie wife (played by Erin Bethea) is H. O. T. So she witheld sex from her husband? Well...I'd say just looking at her with clothes on would be far more satisfying than looking at porn on a computer monitor :)

2011's Courageous is a better film, though it is not flawless.

At least Kirk Cameron is not backing down from his Christian faith. He might have become a far richer and more famous actor had he not become a Christian and/or compromised his beliefs.
31 posted on 03/27/2012 7:38:45 AM PDT by railroader
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To: alphadoggie
Nobody is DRIVEN to pornography by anything other than their own weakness, whether or not their wife is not getting it on with them.

"Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
--1 Cor 7:5

You're half right. It is his own "lack of self-control," but the Bible makes the other spouse responsible for not encouraging and enabling this weakness. Once again, you seem to be buying into the popular "Christian" tripe that it is always the man's fault. I used to think that, too, until my "Christian" wife had an affair and justified it on the grounds that I wasn't doing enough to make her ecstaticly happy all the time (despite trying to do so 24/7/365). It caused me to have to re-think everything that is commonly taught in Christianity about marriage. Much of it is horribly un-Biblical, and is designed to appeal to feminine forms of lust while rightly castigating masculine forms of lust.

Of course, I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that in our culture, women have taken the spiritual driver's seat in the marriage, and are responsible for deciding which church to attend, etc.

32 posted on 03/27/2012 7:40:53 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: Thane_Banquo

Since when are firemen poor? They make a descent living and they choose their profession, no one has enslaved them. There is always someone waiting in the wings to have a well-paying job. If the job, conditions and pay don’t suit you, one is always free to walk out the door and look for something else to pay the bills.

Now if you mean poor in spirit, then the man and the woman, in the movie, were both poor in spirit. Yet, neither wanted to be that way. One tried and was rejected until she broke and it was her decision to break away that brought him to the cross road of choosing to change to rekindle not only her spirit of love, but also his own. Then together they could come reunite in the spirit of both of love and forgiveness and be reborn.

God didn’t tell us not to judge, God said judge properly so you will also be judged properly. And Jesus told us to love and forgive for in that there is redemption of the soul. Sometimes forgiveness sets another free, most often forgiveness sets us free.


33 posted on 03/27/2012 7:43:31 AM PDT by This I Wonder32460
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To: Thane_Banquo

It’s been awhile since I’ve seen Fireproof. But was the wife a Christian when she did all those wrong things? I seem to recall the husband became a Christian first, and that’s why he repented. Also, the point was that the wife did not “deserve” the husband’s love and sacrifice at that point, but he had to give it anyway...just like we don’t deserve Christ’s love and sacrifice, but He gives it, anyway. That was the whole point. And I think the happy ending was that the wife also ended up coming to Christ. Therefore, she would have repented, though they may not have shown that on screen.


34 posted on 03/27/2012 7:47:29 AM PDT by Nea Wood (When life gets too hard to stand, kneel.)
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To: Thane_Banquo
That is one, narrow opinion, and you are free to disagree with the point of the movie.

But none of that justifies your absolutely ridiculous and wrongheaded statement that it is a "Divorce-porn" movie.

(At least you haven't argued the ages old defense of wayward men as 'boys will be boys.' Or argued the position that women should be chattel. That's at least one point in your favor).

I respect the movie for pointing out the EVIL of porn, and your suggesting that it was pro-porn is just reality in reverse.

And none of your anti-Fireproof rant addresses the point of this thread, or, in fact, has anything to do with it.

35 posted on 03/27/2012 7:49:13 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Nea Wood; Thane_Banquo
I've seen the movie fairly recently, and you have it exactly right.

It was the husband's repentance and coming to Christ that helped lead his wife to Christ as well.

It's just that the focus was on the man's journey, and not the woman's.

36 posted on 03/27/2012 7:52:12 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: MrB
It is the husband’s responsibility to disciple her. Eph 5.

ding, ding, ding...i guess we'll hafta wait for the sequel to see *if* she came to Christ and indeed repented...

the man is responsible, by design...

37 posted on 03/27/2012 7:53:16 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: ohioWfan
But none of that justifies your absolutely ridiculous and wrongheaded statement that it is a "Divorce-porn" movie.

Really? Let's see: Woman feels unhappy that her husband isn't putting her in a state of perpetual emotional ecstasy. She threatens divorce. Scared by the threat, he, all of a sudden, makes it his life's purpose to cowtow to her every whim, even if she meets his kindness with hatred and disrespect. He does everything she could ever want, and she isn't required to give him anything in return. He almost dies in a fire, and she doesn't give a flip, because he doesn't matter. He's just a man. It's her selfish emotional desires that matter, not his life. Then, she gets a cold and he stays home to take care of her. Then, finally, two alpha males fight like rutting bucks for the right to mate with her. Every sin she commits is justified because she was emotionally unhappy, and a woman should always follow her heart...

That's pretty much the definition of female emo-porn.

38 posted on 03/27/2012 7:57:55 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: jagusafr

Making disciples is a different mandate than taking over the State(s), which is dominionism.


39 posted on 03/27/2012 7:58:26 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Thane_Banquo
I've been a Christian for nearly 6 decades and have been involved in the church my entire life, and I have not ever heard that "it is always the man's fault" from anyone. Ever.

If you have been exposed to that cockamamie opinion, then I understand a bit more your extreme and emotional reaction to a movie that does nothing of the sort, but rather, talks about a man's beginning to understand his responsibility to his wife and home (as defined by Scripture).

In the movie, the husband becomes the spiritual leader, does he not? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that Scriptural??

40 posted on 03/27/2012 7:59:00 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Thane_Banquo

Both were unbelievers. He was driven to repentance. She never was driven to repentance. There is not a single part of the movie that indicates any repentance on her part for her sins, even after they got back together, even after they had a second “wedding” ceremony. Everything is brought to a “happily ever after” moment, without the pre-condition of her repentance. It creates the illusion that she wasn’t equally at fault. But her sins were of the same kind as his: Her planning to have an affair with a doctor while still married was the same sin as him looking at pornography. It’s called lust. But it’s okay for her to do it, because her subjective emotional desires weren’t being met.


He became a believer, then followed his dad’s advise aided by scripture. I don’t remember her turning to God either, but, like his father prayed for him, he would pray for her redemption.

We are called to forgive EVEN when no one tells us THEY are sorry. I think this was a movie aimed at men to give it all to God and not expect anything in return. Jesus forgave, even as the nails went into his hands and feet, he said, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they are doing”.

I think lots of people would have liked to see the wife say she was sorry and wrong. Maybe that is how much God wants us to stretch for HIM. Right now men are writing these stories and are aiming at men to do the right thing, even if women don’t. When we don’t forgive, unless we hear I’m sorry too, have we really given it all to God?


41 posted on 03/27/2012 8:00:00 AM PDT by Linda Frances (Only God can change a heart, but we can pray for hearts to be changed)
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To: This I Wonder32460
Since when are firemen poor?

Poor in comparison to doctors. They aren't poor, you're right. They make a good living.

42 posted on 03/27/2012 8:02:19 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: Thane_Banquo
Wow. Just wow.

I see you continue to ignore the point that all of this 'emo-porn' happened BEFORE the wife came to Christ, and the humility her Christian husband exhibited was to win her to Christ.

No point in continuing this. You're convinced, and ignoring the information that doesn't fit your template.

Just for the record, I only saw the movie because it was on TV. Not a fan of this kind of movie. But in seeing it recently, I know for a fact that your opinion is exactly opposite of the reality of the film.

43 posted on 03/27/2012 8:02:56 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Thane_Banquo

You’re right about pornography. I’ve had problems there as well. But what about the emotional pornography sold to women in the form of romance novels and Lifetime Network and all that? It’s a kind of pornography where women are allowed to fantasize about a man keeping her in a constant and eternal state of emotional ecstasy. It demeans men by making women believe that the entire reason a man exists is to fulfill a woman’s subjective and selfish emotional desires. The church actually encourages this kind of pornography, with Christian booksellers churning out tons of Christian romance novels and movies. This is porn for women, pure and simple. Both are based in lust, but the lust expresses itself in different ways. We wink at one form while rightly condemning the other. Why?
***Interesting point, one that I hadn’t thought of.


44 posted on 03/27/2012 8:09:01 AM PDT by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Thane_Banquo

The respect someone receives is the respect they earn. If your wife is disrespecting you, what have you done that has hurt her and crippled her ability to respect you and to treat you differently then she currently does? You probably don’t even know you are doing it or think what you have done shouldn’t make her feel the way she does and react the way she does to you and not give you the respect you crave. Respect is not a given, it is an earning. We reap what we sow and most often it is the man who needs to learn how change his way, in order for his wife to be drawn toward him rather then turned away from him, as he is source of her sorrow and self-shame. I suggest two books by Gary Smalley “If only He Knew - What No Woman Can resist” or “For Better or For Best - Understand Your Man.”


45 posted on 03/27/2012 8:10:23 AM PDT by This I Wonder32460
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To: Linda Frances
1) You're mistaking forgiveness with continuation of the marriage.

2) There are tons of Christian resources "aiming at men to do the right thing, even if women don’t." Why are there no Christian resources criticizing women for the emotional form of lust they practice, but rather there are Christian romance novels and romance movies that encourage it? Men are constantly told to "man up" in the face of unfaithful women, but rarely do we see Christian leaders informing women that the purpose of marriage isn't to meet their selfish emotionalistic desires. Rather, I see that view encouraged in discussions of "Christian" marriage. It is a view entirely at odds with the Bible, but the view underlies Fireproof.

46 posted on 03/27/2012 8:11:50 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: This I Wonder32460

Yeah, I also used to believe that “it’s always the man’s fault” baloney too. Then I learned the hard way that women, like men, are actually capable of serious sin.


47 posted on 03/27/2012 8:29:19 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo (Support hate crime laws: Because some victims are more equal than others.)
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To: ohioWfan
“I want people to understand the recipe for freedom and blessing and prosperity and I want people to be inspired by the stories of courage and sacrifice and selflessness,” he added.

He understands 'character' is the difference.

48 posted on 03/27/2012 8:35:00 AM PDT by GOPJ (Democrat-Media Complex - buried stories and distorted facts... freeper 'andrew' Breitbart)
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To: GOPJ
He understands 'character' is the difference.

Yes, he does, and that America cannot survive without it.

And thank you for getting back to the article and the point of this thread.

Methinks it's being hijacked by a single disgruntled freeper!

49 posted on 03/27/2012 8:45:17 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Thane_Banquo
1) You're mistaking forgiveness with continuation of the marriage.
2) There are tons of Christian resources “aiming at men to do the right thing, even if women don’t.” Why are there no Christian resources criticizing women for the emotional form of lust they practice, but rather there are Christian romance novels and romance movies that encourage it? Men are constantly told to “man up” in the face of unfaithful women, but rarely do we see Christian leaders informing women that the purpose of marriage isn't to meet their selfish emotionalistic desires. Rather, I see that view encouraged in discussions of “Christian” marriage. It is a view entirely at odds with the Bible, but the view underlies Fireproof.

1) We are called to forgive 7 times 77; which I think we both agree on. As far as the continuation of marriage we know that God’ hates divorce. I assume you mean that the fact that she was divorcing him was wrong. She was not a believer, so she does many things wrong. If you mean he should divorce her because she was about to have an affair—she did and did not. In the worlds eyes she did not, but she lusted after a man so in God's eyes she did. He too was having an affair- online: “If a man looks at a women with lust in his heart, he has already committed adultery with her.” And no one has to stay with an unfaithful spouse. God might speak to your heart and tell you to stay in the marriage, but scripture says we don't’ have to stay, so that's a choice many have to make. Give up your pride and obey God or do what you want.

2)I don't know any Christian women who read romance novels or watch romance movies that makes them lust after the man. Women sometimes like to see a chick flick to hear a story of true love; but I can't imagine a Christian lusting after the man in the story. Is that what you mean?

I think you see many things aimed at men doing the right thing because they are suppose to be the head of the household. Men do not have to stay with a unfaithful wife, but maybe God will call him to for His reasons. My son's first wife cheated on him 3 times before he finally divorced her. He was not walking with God and she had issues from her childhood. After my son filed for divorce and seen his life was falling apart, he returned to God. He then seen that even though she cheated, he had done many things that were wrong in their marriage. He was partying with his friends instead of taking his wife out,.....God took him though a slow process of seeing where he was wrong. A few years after the divorce my son called his x to apologize for his part in the marriage breakup. God had been dealing with her and she cried to him that it was all her fault and not his at all. His x had remarried, so their was no hope of reconciliation. My son did not call to reconcile and really did not want to unless God put that on his heart. My son has been married to a beautiful girl who is a Christian. He leads bible studies and has cell group meetings in his home. He is the happiest man I know, next to my husband.

50 posted on 03/27/2012 9:21:56 AM PDT by Linda Frances (Only God can change a heart, but we can pray for hearts to be changed)
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