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Obama kills coal - as promised, GOP is MIA on EPA overreach
The Washington Times ^ | March 29, 2012 | By Steve Milloy

Posted on 03/29/2012 4:36:34 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

The Obama Environmental Protection Agency just condemned to death an entire U.S. industry - a legal and scientific horror story that congressional Republicans failed miserably to prevent.

The EPA’s newly proposed greenhouse gas emission standards for coal-fired power plants will be finalized by the Obama administration, win or lose, after the November election.

Though the proposed standards leave alone existing coal-fired power plants, they effectively prohibit the construction of new plants by establishing an impossible-to-meet emissions standard.

But don’t get the idea that the EPA threw the coal industry a bone by omitting existing coal-fired plants, as the agency has already issued two regulations - the Cross-State Air Pollution Rule and the Mercury Air Toxics Standard - that will prematurely retire about 20 percent of existing coal-fired plants over the next few years.

The supposed scientific grounds for the new EPA greenhouse gas emissions is global warming. But even if you believe that man-made emissions are changing climate for the worse, there are two realities that expose the EPA’s moves as purely political.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: anwr; climatechange; coal; election2012; energy; epa; failure; fatlisa; globalhoaxing; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; greenreligion; heyheyhey; keystonexl; lisajackson; marxistcoup; obamunism; opec; peoplehate; populationcontrol; socialism; tyranny

1 posted on 03/29/2012 4:36:45 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

If this is like previous EPA reductions in emmissions, even existing plants aren’t safe. If you spend more than a certain percentage of the plant’s value in one year (such as getting a new turbine and generator in the same year), then the plant is no longer an “existing” plant. It is now a new plant subject to current regulations. This actually hampers a power company’s efforts to modernize and upgrade their plants.


2 posted on 03/29/2012 4:44:19 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

If it can be done, it can be undone.


3 posted on 03/29/2012 4:44:33 PM PDT by pallis
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The liberals killed the Northwest logging industry, putting tens of thousands out of work and turning dozens of counties into wards of the state. It was just accepted.

The liberals turned off the water to California's Inland Empire causing a quarter of a million people to become unemployed and seriously reducing the food supply of the nation.

And, now, coal miners will lose their jobs, power plants will be shut down, and electricity bills will increase. But, the writer's correct. The Republican response has been, um, muted.

4 posted on 03/29/2012 4:48:04 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Obama kills coal

With all these stories about the Obama kids going crazy coast-to-coast, border-to-border I wish newsmen would be careful how the phrase things in the news.

5 posted on 03/29/2012 4:48:41 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Rurudyne; steelyourfaith; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; xcamel; AdmSmith; ...

Thanks Oldeconomybuyer.


6 posted on 03/29/2012 4:48:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Nothing new here. When will you understand that politicians are both bribeable and willing to take stands that seems politically correct at the moment. They are POLITICIANS for goodness sakes - both Dems and Reps. Yes, that means that both parties are CREEPS! (can’t use proper language here).


7 posted on 03/29/2012 5:02:25 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: BfloGuy

Very depressing :(


8 posted on 03/29/2012 5:21:39 PM PDT by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Maybe we need to start building hydroelectric plants in Green Cities and States. Flood the Rats out. There is no pleasing the EPA or the environmentalist. I live close to several Coal Fired Steam Plants. They are much better than the hydroelectric dams that drove people off their land their families had lived on for generations.

Personally I think everyone who works for EPA should have their electric utilities disconnected to their homes, their likely taxpayer owned vehicles taken away, and the power disconnected too their offices as well. Let those two faced hypocrites be forced to live the lifestyle they are forcing upon us unconstitutionally.

9 posted on 03/29/2012 5:34:04 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer


10 posted on 03/29/2012 5:39:59 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: cva66snipe
Maybe we need to start building hydroelectric plants ....

Good luck with that .... saw a story recently where the Obamanites are spending taxpayer money for surveys ... paying people money to fill them out regarding 4 private hydroelectric dam facilities .... people not affected, who know nothing about the dams. In other words, trying to gin up complaints where there are none so they can move in and close them down, remove the dams .... whatever they're going to do. I'm sure if you dig deep enough in the Obama administration sludge, you'll find a dam-hating enviro-whacko worried about some fish or water bug or something.

11 posted on 03/29/2012 5:55:33 PM PDT by MissMagnolia (Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't. (M.Thatcher))
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To: BfloGuy

The liberals killed the Pacific Northwest logging industry and the commercial fishing industry putting tens of thousands out of work, promising jobs that did not exist, turning dozens of counties into wards of the state. It was just accepted. As was the huge loss to the US Balance of Trade - the first steps in turning the US into a net importer of food and toward becoming a debtor nation.

Gotta love them Libs: Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton.


12 posted on 03/29/2012 5:58:38 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

LMAO, glad I didn’t buy an electric car!


13 posted on 03/29/2012 6:03:11 PM PDT by wizwor
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Americans better start getting used to sitting in the dark with no boob tube and no way to charge their cell phone battery. We’re all cave dwellers now. How ‘bout that “progressivism”?


14 posted on 03/29/2012 6:13:46 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (It's time to WEAN the government off of our money.)
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To: MissMagnolia
Maybe we need to start building hydroelectric plants ....

Ain't going to happen: the enviro-Nazis have convinced the sheeple that salmon are more important than power or crops. The dam below is one of many being destroyed. The Klamath River dams are threatened, also.

Condit Dam breached: A slow-motion video offers a different view

15 posted on 03/29/2012 6:30:49 PM PDT by CedarDave (Romney: The Etch A Sketch Candidate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6NArPUFLRI)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

,,,,,, the union coal miners love 0bama just one more reason for them to vote for him again .


16 posted on 03/29/2012 6:31:07 PM PDT by Lionheartusa1 (-: Socialism is the equal distribution of misery :-)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The GOP is nothing more than the “relief” party for the American NWO types. They are to provide an outlet for those of us who won’t willingly surrender our souls to the leaders and community organizers.


17 posted on 03/29/2012 6:34:36 PM PDT by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

“I will bankrupt the coal companies” - the guy does keep his promises.....


18 posted on 03/29/2012 6:49:53 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: MissMagnolia
Really hydroelectric is the least efficient of all and the most destructive. I just posted it too give them a taste of what government has been dishing out since The New Deal.

Many people don't know that the first test of the Endangered Species Act was used to try and stop a runaway federal agency called TVA. TVA wanted to build an extension of sorts Ft Loudon Lake called Tellico Lake and they connected via a canal. Tellico Dam does not generate power it has no generators. It simply increased the pool capacity of Ft Loundon Lake. TVA by it's own admission building Tellico Lake was a monetary and energy looser that would not pay for itself.

The opposition too the lake as such wasn't environmentalist but local land owners of prime farm land and sportsman. There was several dams upstream but the river was good Trout fishing water.

A biologist found what they thought at the time was a fish {Snail Darter} common only too that river and that was the how those opposed chose to try and bring an end too TVA's roughshod you'll do as we say or else tactics.

After several court battles the project finally died out so everyone thought. But Sen Howard Baker and Rep John Duncan Sr ran a midnight bill through to fund completion.

What was done after that should anger anyone who believes in property rights. Landowners who had even a small portion of their property touching the TVA high water boundary were forced to sell the entire parcel. Meaning if you had 500 acres and one tenth an acre was lake front TVA got the 500 as well. TVA then sold it to developers for a song. The original landowners had their land sold for many times over what TVA paid and what developers had paid TVA.

19 posted on 03/29/2012 6:50:46 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
GOP is MIA on EPA overreach

The GOP is MIA on almost everything.

20 posted on 03/29/2012 7:18:01 PM PDT by VideoDoctor
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The GOP is worthless.


21 posted on 03/29/2012 7:19:30 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: pallis
If it can be done, it can be undone.

Of course, it can.

But do you have any confidence that a GOP Congress and a GOP President will do it?

What is it that will give Mitch McConnell some gumption...and make Scott Brown, Lamar Alexander, Susan Collins and Olympia Snow's successor see the light?

22 posted on 03/29/2012 7:40:12 PM PDT by okie01
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To: CedarDave
Looks to me like breaching the dam simply caused the river to become clotted with silt and mud.

A likely outcome, when you think about it...

23 posted on 03/29/2012 7:50:28 PM PDT by okie01
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To: CedarDave
Looks to me like breaching the dam simply caused the river to become clotted with silt and mud.

A likely outcome, when you think about it...

24 posted on 03/29/2012 7:51:37 PM PDT by okie01
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

I’ll say it again, it’s time business just flat out ignore any regulations coming out of DC and dare them to stop them.


25 posted on 03/29/2012 8:09:36 PM PDT by Despot of the Delta
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To: Oldeconomybuyer; 11B40; A Balrog of Morgoth; A message; ACelt; Aeronaut; AFPhys; AlexW; ...
DOOMAGE!

Global Warming PING!

You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.

Freep-mail me to get on or off: Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.

Lord Monckton Interview, Obama's Eligibility and Global Warming, Part 2 of 3

Oceans release CO2 during periods of warming and store during ice ages

EPA rules may push coal companies to boost exports

Global Warming on Free Republic

Latest from Global Warming News

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Latest from Greenie Watch

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26 posted on 03/29/2012 8:48:05 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Occupy DC General Assembly: We are Marxist tools. WE ARE MARXIST TOOLS!)
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To: cva66snipe

You may have hit on a solution. Is there some way we can find the homes of the biggest rats in the EPA? There are ways to disconnect electricity.


27 posted on 03/29/2012 9:03:40 PM PDT by WVNan ("Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy." - Winston)
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To: WVNan
You may have hit on a solution. Is there some way we can find the homes of the biggest rats in the EPA? There are ways to disconnect electricity.

Their lights would be back on as fast as their call do a local power company CEO that has to deal with the misery EPA brings LOL. But the problem with most government agencies and even our congress for that matter is they exempt themselves from the very laws, regulations, and mandates, they force upon us. EPA is one of the biggest abusers of power. I used to think TVA was the worst and I have had a run in with TVA over a right of way they bought and took three times as much as what they paid for. I won that fight LOL.

28 posted on 03/29/2012 10:49:49 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
McConnell and Boehner are compromised. The often seem to be playing for the other team and view conservatives and Tea Party reps as more the enemy than the Democrats.
29 posted on 03/30/2012 3:21:10 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Why do you call it “EPA overreach”?

Do you believe EPA is not operating PRECISELY as authorized by Congress under the Clean Air Act?

Of course, the EXERCISE of that authority by anti-American communists is creating problems - but the delegation of Congressional authority is at the root of the matter, and until THAT is changed, nobody will be safe.


30 posted on 03/30/2012 3:32:07 AM PDT by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: cva66snipe
Really hydroelectric is the least efficient of all and the most destructive.

Hydro power still has lots of untapped potential. The dams along my river provide much better boating and fishing opportunities than the undammed areas. Run-of-the-river generation and small dams add smaller amounts of power than large dams, and create no blockages or other problems. The large dams you are talking about have been created by a large out-of-control bureaucracy. Despite them screwing over some landowners, the amount of new power and new recreation is very large despite losing the trout and other migrating fish. In any case trout can easily be farmed and replaced in any stretch of the river where they are desirable.

31 posted on 03/30/2012 4:44:05 AM PDT by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: pallis
If it can be done, it can be undone.

Possible, but how likely? Who has the courage to try?

What's the GOP's track record on rolling back big government? The last time the party controlled both the executive and legislative branches, we got the medicare prescription entitlement.

You just know that if they try to undo the EPA regulations, they will come out of it with the public viewing them as earth-destroying monsters (thanks to the Democrat/MSM propaganda machine). It will take courage and conviction, and it will require turning a blind eye to the polls. So, again: Possible, but how likely?

32 posted on 03/30/2012 6:12:05 AM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (I'm a constitutionalist, not a libertarian. Huge difference.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

This is just another example of the leftist aka progressives using taxes to attack something they do not like. If the leftist aka progressive want alternate fuels. They use their money to create them. Oil companies did not get federal funds to create their industry.


33 posted on 03/30/2012 8:15:33 AM PDT by DMG2FUN
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

So. I’m guessing that Obama is going to rely on charging his electric cars by sunlight from Solyndra solar collections stored in A123 batteries. Great plan simpleton.


34 posted on 03/30/2012 8:30:32 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: cva66snipe

Hydro electric damns? I can think a one great place for a massive hydro electric damn.

Chicago. The Chicago River is now infested with Asian carp and they threaten Lake Michigan.

I hydro electric damn could do several things.

1) Stop the carp
2) Provide “green” electricity to Chicago
3) Evacuate a large portion of Chicago’s blighted areas.

Sure the city would be smaller (by population) but think of all the poor people that would benefit from the value of lakefront property.

(Cynical)


35 posted on 03/30/2012 8:46:10 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (With regards to the GOP: I am prodisestablishmentarianistic!)
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To: palmer
Hydro power still has lots of untapped potential. The dams along my river provide much better boating and fishing opportunities than the undammed areas. Run-of-the-river generation and small dams add smaller amounts of power than large dams, and create no blockages or other problems. The large dams you are talking about have been created by a large out-of-control bureaucracy. Despite them screwing over some landowners, the amount of new power and new recreation is very large despite losing the trout and other migrating fish. In any case trout can easily be farmed and replaced in any stretch of the river where they are desirable.

TVA is one of the top electrical power producers in the nation. Look at all the dams they have operational. Only about 10% of their total production comes from hydroelectric. When the dams were built options as far how power could be generated was limited. Tee upper Tennessee River dams from FT Loudon {southwest of Knoxville on the Tennessee river} and Norris Dam on the Clinch above Oak Ridge were build in the WW2 era except for Norris the first TVA dam as it was a New Deal during The Great Depression. The rest were built for The Manhattan Project mainly with power coming as far away as Fontana N.C. Alcoa built the upper Little Tennessee River dams including Chilhowee.

OK so where does the vast majority of power actually come from? I'll quote TVA.

The coal-fired generating facilities of TVA’s Fossil Power Group have 14,469 megawatts of capacity. They have been the backbone of the power system since the 1950s, when TVA first began using coal to make electricity for the Tennessee Valley region. The eleven coal-fired plants generate nearly two-thirds of the electricity TVA produces for its customers.

As for Nuclear?

TVA’s nuclear plants contribute about 6,600 megawatts of electricity to the power grid, making the Nuclear Power Group an integral part of the seven-state power system. About 30 percent of TVA’s power supply comes from its three nuclear plants: Browns Ferry, near Athens, Ala.; Sequoyah, in Soddy-Daisy, Tenn., and Watts Bar, near Spring City, Tenn. Those plants alone make enough electricity to power more than three million homes in the Tennessee Valley.

And now for Hydroelectric. Read the paragraph and do the math. TVA says one thing about it but relies on the other? IOW they changed their own information to make hydroelectric look like Green Energy.

Hydropower is America’s leading renewable energy resource. Of all the renewable power sources, it’s the most reliable, efficient and economical. TVA maintains 29 conventional hydroelectric dams throughout the Tennessee River system and one pumped-storage facility for the production of electricity. In addition, four Alcoa dams on the Little Tennessee River and eight U.S. Army Corps of Engineers dams on the Cumberland River contribute to the TVA power system.

Don't you find this odd that there is no mention of how much it actually contributes to their grid? Before Obama it was listed at about 10% or less yet look at the massive lakes.

I am more inclined to support more coal mines and more nuclear plants as against flooding yet more of the Tennessee Valley.

That is why by even TVA's own admission Tellico Lake was not profitable. They were planning more nuclear and coal fired plants that the EPA managed to get scrapped via overzealous regulation. Hydroelectric was great for it's time. Now the land is more valuable and the lakes themselves are more of a tourism centered item than power generation.

For example Norris Lake used to be drawn down to almost river channel levels during some winters. Usually it was down at least 50 ft winter pool. This winter it has stayed at or above 20 ft from full as it has for several years now. Why? Because developers are selling off lakefront property and the bare winter banks are not a good selling point.

Coal and nuclear is the immediate future. What really is hilarious is FDR centered the creation of TVA around controlling soil erosion. The release from the dams at full generation destroyed almost all private held fertile river bottom fields in it's path from what? Soil Erosion. LOL. Hydroelectric in this region of the nation is an energy source that it's practical time has now passed. Keep the current dams functional? Yes by all means. But we don't need more of them as there is better ways now to generate massive amounts of electricity without flooding out valuable land.

36 posted on 03/30/2012 5:37:15 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Tenacious 1

Works for me as long as the Chicago refugees don’t bring their Liberalism down my way. LOL.


37 posted on 03/30/2012 5:40:28 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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