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The ObamaCare Free Lunch
Founding Ideals ^

Posted on 03/29/2012 5:59:26 PM PDT by agee

Supreme Court – 03.28.12 An exchange between Justice Kagan and Lead Plaintiff Attorney Clement…

Clement had barely finished his first sentence when Kagan immediately asked him why it was coercive for the federal government to give billions of dollars in additional aid to the states. “There are no matching funds requirements, there are no extraneous conditions attached to it, it’s just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend on poor people’s healthcare,” she declared. “It doesn’t sound coercive to me, I have to tell you.”

To that, Clement said the government’s money was still coercive because it assumed the states would take the money and that Congress was leveraging their prior participation in the program. Kagan pressed further with a hypothetical asking Clement if he’d accept a lucrative job. He said it would depend on where that money came from.

“Wow! Wow!” Kagan exclaimed in wonderment. “I’m offering you $10 million a year to come work for me and you are saying this is anything but a great choice?” Clement sharply replied, “Sure, if I told you, actually it came from my own bank account.”


(Excerpt) Read more at foundingideals.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons
KEYWORDS: elenakagan; kagan; obamacare; scotus; scotusocareday3

1 posted on 03/29/2012 5:59:36 PM PDT by agee
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To: agee

And this embarrassing mental colossus is on the bench of the Supreme Court for the next 30 years. God help the United States.


2 posted on 03/29/2012 6:03:53 PM PDT by Lawgvr1955 (You can never have too much cowbell !!)
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To: Lawgvr1955

What was embarrassing was that Kagan was arguing the government’s case from the bench. She was better prepared than the Government’s attorney. I guess that’s what happens when you help write a law. (Not like she has a conflict of interest or anything.....)


3 posted on 03/29/2012 6:09:30 PM PDT by agee
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To: agee; All
If one uses as a standard the intellectual arguments articulated in the debates of the 1787 Convention, and among the participants debating ratification of the proposed U. S. Constitution throughout the States in 1787-88, then what an embarrassing look into the mind and thought process of current Justice Kagan!

Justice Breyer's nonsensical musings, when combined with those of Justice Kagan, should alarm every citizen who cherishes the Constitution's underlying principles, as articulated and explained by America's Founders and Framers of that Constitution's protections for liberty.

My post from another thread related to Kagan:

"Kagan: "'The exact same argument so, so that really reduces to the question of: why is a big gift from the federal government a matter of coercion?
"'In other words, the federal government is here saying: we’re giving you a boatload of money. There are no, is no matching funds requirement. There are no extraneous conditions attached to it.
"'It’s just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend on poor people’s healthcare. It doesn’t sound coercive to me, I have to tell you.'"

This statement tells us everything we need to know about Justice Kagan's concept of "coercive power" versus "individual liberty" and the Constitution's protections for the latter.

America's Founders viewed "government" as "coercive" by nature.

America's Founders understood that "government" creates no money, has no money, and cannot "gift" money without first "taking" it from someone--a "coercive" act in itself.

Besides, this "boatload of money" is not "federal money." It is "the People's" money, and who is naive or uninformed enough to believe that "taking" it from the people, sending it to Washington, and then doling it out to the States is an efficient way to provide "poor people's health care"????

Oh, how far we have come from the genius and wisdom which gave birth to America's Constitution, America's liberty for all, and America's prosperity and greatness!!!

I hope that these members of the Supreme Court will understand that future generations of Americans and individuals all over the world, given the new technologies which enable them to study the Founders' ideas, will judge them by the Framers' standards, not by the standards of the so-called "progressive" politicians in this Administration.

"Ideas have Consequences" (Weaver). America's Founders' ideas produced freedom, opportunity, prosperity and plenty for hundreds of millions of oppressed people.

The "progressives'" ideas of redistribution (socialism) have produced approaching tyranny and oppression, mediocrity, and want, in every society where they have been tried.

4 posted on 03/29/2012 6:11:22 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: agee

1. Maybe Kagan realizes Bernacke will just print the money used to pay the states. So it is free (monopoly) money.

2. Maybe the role of the states is not to protect the freedoms of its residents and not to accept free bribes to abridge the freedoms of the people.


5 posted on 03/29/2012 6:15:25 PM PDT by spintreebob
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: spintreebob

1. If Bernake isn’t careful the only thing the US dollar will be good for is toilet paper. (See Germany early 30s)

2. If the enough states get together and start rejecting the funding coming from Washington, it will shift power back to the states. The problem is that the states are addicted to the dollars collected by the IRS and redistributed freely.


7 posted on 03/29/2012 6:19:45 PM PDT by agee
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To: agee

They are supposed to be deciding whether its Constitutional, not if its a “good idea” or “wehats wrong with free money?”

What a mental midget.

What a moron.

She has no business being on SCOTUS


8 posted on 03/29/2012 6:25:07 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: agee
...a boatload of federal money...

So, is that what Miss Piggy thinks of my taxpayer dollars? That "federal money" has been stolen from Americans.

9 posted on 03/29/2012 6:26:15 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (It's time to WEAN the government off of our money.)
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To: Lawgvr1955
Socialists and Government employees, never seem to grasp the concept of money as merely a convenient way for citizens to barter for property, goods and services amongst themselves, and with other nations.

Monetary systems always break down when Government officials and Financial Institutions forget certain basic facts.

Are we citizens satisfied with the level of service we are receiving from our government?

10 posted on 03/29/2012 6:29:42 PM PDT by sarasmom ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZsFe6dM3EY)
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To: agee
He said it would depend on where that money came from...and how long it lasted - the fed money is only startup money, and gradually decreases over a few years until the states are left holding the bag for the full amount of Medicaid - same thing happened with community mental health programs - lots of money from the feds to open outpatient clinics, but when the money stream ended in a couple of years, so did most of the clinics - at least in any effective form - that's why so many mental patients are sleeping under bridges today......
11 posted on 03/29/2012 6:30:22 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: agee

Sales people must love her.

“It’s all free ma’am. We’ll take the price out of your paycheck so you don’t have to pay anything!”


12 posted on 03/29/2012 6:35:29 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: Intolerant in NJ

Every time I hear a justice discuss “is it a good idea” or “will it work” and not “is it constitutional” I cringe. At least 4 members on the court gave up caring if it’s constitutional the day they were appointed.


13 posted on 03/29/2012 6:37:08 PM PDT by agee
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To: Intolerant in NJ

Every time I hear a justice discuss “is it a good idea” or “will it work” and not “is it constitutional” I cringe. At least 4 members on the court gave up caring if it’s constitutional the day they were appointed.


14 posted on 03/29/2012 6:37:17 PM PDT by agee
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To: loveliberty2

bump


15 posted on 03/29/2012 6:40:52 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: FlingWingFlyer
>"So, is that what Miss Piggy thinks of my taxpayer dollars? That "federal money" has been stolen from Americans. "

Stolen right out of everyone's retirement and savings, by B Wacky and Bernacky's Magic Money Machine!

16 posted on 03/29/2012 6:54:32 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (3 little children murdered by islam, Toulouse March 2012 . Time for the Final Crusade!!!!!)
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To: agee
The quasi communist Kagan (and she's not only communist but arrogant and superficial) has no notion of liberty or even of basic right. The only value for her is, "what are you getting"? And if you're getting a lot of money from the government, which the government has expropriated from other people (or even from yourself), then you happily give the government complete control over your existence and you have no complaints. In Kagan's book, you are "free," because the government is supporting you. And this has always been the communist definition of freedom. The Communists said that Americans were not free, because all of our needs weren't taken care of. But now, as Pelosi says, we are truly free for the first time, we are finally putting the Declaration of Independence truly into effect, because now people can pursue their dreams and desires--quit work, be an artist--without having to worry about losing their health insurance.

Also, this shows how liberals-leftists believe that once you get any support from the government, no matter how small, they already own you, and you have no right to object to any further expansion of government power. Once you receive, say, Social Security, you have no right to object to the government taking over the entire health insurance industry, and then the entire economy. In the leftists' book, if you receive any government benefit, and you object to Obamacare, or to totally subsidized birth control and sterilization, or to sex change operations for criminal illegal aliens, you are a hypocrite.

Our Republic is in great peril. God save us.

17 posted on 03/29/2012 7:01:11 PM PDT by Daffynition (Our forefathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: Lawgvr1955

Some think that if Obama is defeated for reelection, Paul Clement himself may be headed for the Surpeme Court.


18 posted on 03/29/2012 7:13:05 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (A chameleon belongs in a pet store, not the White House)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Obama is worse than 10 9/11 attacks put together.


19 posted on 03/29/2012 7:14:15 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote

We have to elect a new President this November. I’m not certain that the United States could survive a second Obama term.


20 posted on 03/29/2012 7:22:00 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (A chameleon belongs in a pet store, not the White House)
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To: Daffynition

bump


21 posted on 03/29/2012 7:24:59 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Agreed. The idiots on this site threatening to stay home if their dream boat does not get the nod make me screaM.


22 posted on 03/29/2012 7:28:58 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: agee

Hope you enjoy the strip! My first thought when reading the transcript was of an ourobourous-type snake eating it’s own tail. I think this is a bit more accessible, and I LOVE Kagan as a waitress in a greasy spoon. Though I doubt she’s cut out for that kind of work either.

SG


23 posted on 03/29/2012 7:49:25 PM PDT by stevegraff
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To: agee
OBAMA BACK ATCHA, BACK ATCHA' BARACK
24 posted on 03/29/2012 8:03:23 PM PDT by FrankR
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To: GeronL
She has no business being on SCOTUS

An example of what is to come with Obamas' next few appointments. If reelected he will most likely get 2 or 3 more in the next term. Elections do mean something, and if we give away this one like the last it is OUR fault.

Hasn't O told us enough of what he is about? He is all we can fear, and more. Our country will be done as we know it. All as the founders envisioned us to be will be gone... possibly for ever.

Don't vote for a name, vote only for SCOTUS. It really is the LAST chance we will have.
25 posted on 03/29/2012 8:12:59 PM PDT by JSteff ((((It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.))))
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To: agee

““Wow! Wow!” Kagan exclaimed in wonderment. “I’m offering you $10 million a year to come work for me and you are saying this is anything but a great choice?” Clement sharply replied, “Sure, if I told you, actually it came from my own bank account.”

Ownage!


26 posted on 03/29/2012 8:13:52 PM PDT by Henry Hnyellar
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To: agee

What folks fail to realize is, Roberts was placed on the court to allow the placement and empowerment of just such leftist vermin as Kagan. The fix has been in from the start, even before little Barry started issuing edicts which the courts would review. unJustice Roberts is no friend of OUR Constitution, he’s a playah.


27 posted on 03/29/2012 8:30:18 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Romney has a history of appointed liberal judges

so whats the point?


28 posted on 03/29/2012 8:42:28 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: GeronL

I hate myth, but even if there is .o5 percent chance he is better than Obama it’s worth a chance at this point.


29 posted on 03/29/2012 8:44:24 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: loveliberty2
"Kagan: "'The exact same argument so, so that really reduces to the question of: why is a big gift from the federal government a matter of coercion? "'In other words, the federal government is here saying: we’re giving you a boatload of money. There are no, is no matching funds requirement. There are no extraneous conditions attached to it.

Kagan, you dumb {expletive}... The government cannot give anyone anything it has not already taken from someone else. In other words "We're taking all this economic opportunity (ie. money) away from you, and redistributing this 'boatload' of money. You might as well take it." That's coercive.

30 posted on 03/29/2012 8:47:09 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obama now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: JSteff

Romney also appointed liberals in Mass.

WASS


31 posted on 03/29/2012 8:48:11 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: GeronL

We have a better chance w myth than obama.


32 posted on 03/29/2012 8:56:01 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: agee

Butch Kagan, please contemplate the legality of this issue whilst you take a lunch break enjoying the views from Ft. Marcy Park!


33 posted on 03/29/2012 9:29:04 PM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: agee

34 posted on 03/29/2012 9:45:18 PM PDT by thouworm (.)
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To: Henry Hnyellar

I thought that was a pretty good comeback. 10 points for Clement!

Not only rhetorically funny, its functionally accurate regarding federal money.


35 posted on 03/29/2012 10:59:20 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: agee
“Wow! Wow!” Kagan exclaimed in wonderment. “I’m offering you $10 million a year to come work for me and you are saying this is anything but a great choice?” Clement sharply replied, “Sure, if I told you, actually it came from my own bank account.”

Clement makes a GREAT Foghorn - Kagan, a PERFECT Dawg

36 posted on 03/29/2012 11:52:36 PM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: Lawgvr1955

It’s worse than that.

In 1996 she committed fraud against the Supreme Court during the partial birth abortion ban case.

She actually altered a document submitted by a group of ob/gyn’s. She twisted the words and reversed the intention of their statement to suit her purpose.

So it isn’t just that she is a bad SC justice.
She is a criminal.
She should have, at the very least, been disbarred.


37 posted on 03/30/2012 5:23:15 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: agee

“It’s just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend,” said Justice Looter.


38 posted on 03/30/2012 6:02:13 AM PDT by Lady Lucky
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To: sarasmom
Are we citizens satisfied with the level of service we are receiving from our government?

It would appear so from the observable fact that we continue to pay them. A good hard tax revolt would be heard 'round the world, but nobody wants to rock the boat.

39 posted on 03/30/2012 6:09:55 AM PDT by Lady Lucky
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To: FlingWingFlyer
That "federal money" has been stolen from Americans.

It's been extorted -- obtained via threats. That is, unless some American somewhere pays willingly.

40 posted on 03/30/2012 6:15:18 AM PDT by Lady Lucky
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To: agee

“If the enough states get together and start rejecting the funding coming from Washington..”

great observation. There are practical steps to make it happen. The supplemental transportation spending bill that just passed Congress is an example. Chicago’s mayor Rahm immediately went out and announced Chicago will spend hundreds of millions on TRAIN STATIONS.

Solution:
1. Abolish the FEDERAL Dept of Trans.
2. Sunset in 5 years all transportation taxes (gasoline, diesel, tire, battery, airport, etc)
3. Tell all collectors of Federal transportation taxes to send the money directly to the state in which it is collected.
4. The states have 5 years to pass (or not) a replacement tax.
Losers:
A. Beltway lobbyists
B. Beltway politicians
C. Beltway bureaucrats
D. The highway from Mexico to Canada and other grandiose projects.
Winners:
1. Taxpayers, commuters, workers, drivers, ordinary people
2. State governors, legislators, bureucrats, lobbyists.
3. Blue states that ALWAYS send more to Washington than they get back.
4. Red states that chafe at the strings attached to money from cetnral planners.
5. Mass transportation. Fans of public transportation are concentrated in a few states. They will have more leverage over the money spent in their state than their diluted power in Washington.
6. Small projects to maintain and enhance existing highways.
6. Small contractors, including minority contractors, who are better positioned to handle small projects from small government.
7. Caterpillar and the makers of construction equipment.

Post Roads is in the Constitution. It is constitutional. But what was needed in past ages is not needed now. Transportation pork barrel projects have been a key mechanism to buy votes for big social-welfare programs that the politicians would not otherwise vote for. Repeatedly a big spending program is unpopular and the politicians would not normally vote for it. But then their favorite bridge to re-election is put in the upopular bill and ... well Santorum explained it best: You know its a bad bill but you vote for it anyway.

We need to structurally de-centralize, step by step.


41 posted on 03/30/2012 1:33:49 PM PDT by spintreebob
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To: GeronL
So are you saying that Romney would be more likely than o to make appointments than would obama?
Hardly likely it would be worse than what o would which is a certainty.
42 posted on 04/01/2012 12:49:18 AM PDT by JSteff ((((It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.))))
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