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Republicans retreat on gay marriage
Politico ^ | March 30, 2912 | Jake Sherman and Anna Palmer

Posted on 03/30/2012 9:53:45 AM PDT by C19fan

ust a few years ago, House Republicans were trying to etch their opposition of gay marriage into the Constitution.

Now? They’re almost silent.

It’s been one of the swiftest shifts in ideology and strategy for Republicans, as they’ve come nearly full circle on same-sex politics. What was once a front-and-center issue for rank-and-file Republicans — the subject of many hotly worded House and Senate floor speeches — is virtually a dead issue, as Republicans in Congress don’t care to have gay marriage litigated in the Capitol.

(Excerpt) Read more at dyn.politico.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; liberals; libertarians; marriage; rinos; romney
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GOP waving the white flag again. Got to give credit to the Libs for their 100% commitment to their issues, especially sex.
1 posted on 03/30/2012 9:53:51 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: C19fan

There is nothing to be gained by giving into the perverts.


2 posted on 03/30/2012 9:55:55 AM PDT by pallis
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To: C19fan

I’d say that Jake Sherman and Anna Palmer are trying to bait us.

(Forget) them.


3 posted on 03/30/2012 9:57:20 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: C19fan

It is a symptom of their retreat on nearly every issue. There should be no surprise that they abandoned the social issues first, the ones that since 90s they have only paid lip service to.


4 posted on 03/30/2012 9:57:28 AM PDT by Ingtar
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To: C19fan

It’s time to frog march the wanking Republicrats out of the Congress and back onto their lilly pads!

I’ve had enough of this limp-wristed weenies!

Call in a third party: let’s call it the Tea Party!


5 posted on 03/30/2012 9:57:45 AM PDT by IbJensen (We now have a government requiring citizens prove they are insured but not that they are citizens.)
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To: C19fan

Disappointing, especially since the Reagan Coalition was built at least in part on appeal to social conservatives in both parties.

Too bad we can’t see that, or nominate a candidate who will stand up for basic values.


6 posted on 03/30/2012 9:59:20 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Myth Romney: "Governor Goodhair" is really just a Whig.)
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To: C19fan

The Gay Old Party has abandoned the Ten Commandments, God and Jesus Christ!

Apparently the phony Lincoln Log Republicans have their logs up somebody’s backside.


7 posted on 03/30/2012 10:02:49 AM PDT by IbJensen (We now have a government requiring citizens prove they are insured but not that they are citizens.)
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To: C19fan; All

I don’t really see the big deal.

It’s a natural shift due to a change in times. When times were good, we were able to argue about social things.

But, for the past couple years, times have not been good. It would be foolish to run an election on social issues when people can’t put food on the table.

I do not think this means the GOP is for gay marriage now. But, now is not the time to have a life or death battle on the matter UNLESS it is thrusted upon us by the left through a national attempt at a law etc.


8 posted on 03/30/2012 10:05:30 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: rwfromkansas

That’s pretty much it. Dinner table issues rule right now, anyone who can’t see that has their own agenda.


9 posted on 03/30/2012 10:07:48 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Election 2012 - America stands or falls. No more excuses. Get involved.)
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To: rwfromkansas
It’s a natural shift due to a change in times. When times were good, we were able to argue about social things.

What a load of hogwash.

Just what is a "social thing," anyhow? Why is the defense of innocent human life a "social thing"? Why is the defense of the most important fundamental building block of our civilization, and our economy, the natural family, a "social thing"? Why is every moral basis of everything a "social thing"?

10 posted on 03/30/2012 10:10:01 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: Free Vulcan
Dinner table issues rule right now, anyone who can’t see that has their own agenda.

Yeah. Like defending the foundations of this republic and our claim to liberty.

11 posted on 03/30/2012 10:11:23 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: C19fan
I think Politico constantly tries to get the knee-jerk conservatives into some nonexistent controversy to cause division and this is one of those moments.
12 posted on 03/30/2012 10:12:29 AM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: C19fan; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; Absolutely Nobama; Albion Wilde; AliVeritas; Antoninus; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda ping list.

Be sure to click the FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search link for a list of all related articles. We don't ping you to all related articles so be sure to click the previous link to see the latest articles.

Add keywords homosexual agenda to flag FR articles to this ping list.

13 posted on 03/30/2012 10:18:22 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: EternalVigilance

Social issues simply refer to anything having to do with the society’s ethics/morals etc., at least I see the term in this case.

There was pushback over Obama’s horrible abortion insurance decree.

When they need to, the GOP still does fight back over moral matters. They are important to the future this country.

But, pushing gay marriage bans is not going to win votes right now. Fixing the economy will.

It doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s important to fight gay marriage. But, since Obama is not trying to legalize it, there is not a current sense of urgency to the matter because we have to get people to work so they can HAVE BIBLICAL/TRADITIONAL FAMILIES to begin with.

You can only focus on so many things at a time in politics. Not having active proposals on a matter does not mean you have stopped caring about it.


14 posted on 03/30/2012 10:20:51 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: DarthVader
I think Politico constantly tries to get the knee-jerk conservatives into some nonexistent controversy to cause division and this is one of those moments.

Really?

And you cannot see the corelation between a possible nomination of Mitt "Father of Gay Marriage in America" Romney and this article?
15 posted on 03/30/2012 10:21:03 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: C19fan
gay mafia Pictures, Images and Photos
16 posted on 03/30/2012 10:21:11 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: pallis

that’s what I don’t get.

The majority of voters do not want the homo agenda, hell even CA has voted it down so why the GOP shuts up about this when they can informing the public about what the agenda is about and how the gaystapo are acting then we would win more local seats.

Put their agenda onto the local elections and lets see those local Dems run away from the queer agenda


17 posted on 03/30/2012 10:21:26 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman,It's not a conservative view but a true American view)
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To: rwfromkansas; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
It’s a natural shift due to a change in times. When times were good, we were able to argue about social things.

RINOs have ALWAYS had a reason why it "wasn't a good time" to listen to social conservatives.

But, for the past couple years, times have not been good. It would be foolish to run an election on social issues when people can’t put food on the table.

Our economic problems are a DIRECT RESULT of social issues. America is broke BECAUSE of these issues and we will never truly prosper again if we don't fix them.

18 posted on 03/30/2012 10:21:28 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: manc

the author is weakly attempting to imply back burnering an issue as acceptance. Democrats in general are not all gung ho either. Note how the MSM omitted covering the DADT story.

With super majority in the house and senate the marriage issue will be firmly back to normal.


19 posted on 03/30/2012 10:25:47 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: rwfromkansas; EternalVigilance; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; ...
There was pushback over Obama’s horrible abortion insurance decree.

The economy is in the shape it's in because we have abortion in the first place.

When they need to, the GOP still does fight back over moral matters. They are important to the future this country.

No, when the GOP realizes it is about to lose social conservative votes they pay lip service to issues that they have no intention of ever actually addressing.

It doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s important to fight gay marriage. But, since Obama is not trying to legalize it,

YES, he is.

we have to get people to work so they can HAVE BIBLICAL/TRADITIONAL FAMILIES to begin with.

Utter nonsense!

Prior to a few years ago America had enjoyed a quarter century of nearly uninterrupted economic growth and low unemployment. It was during this era that the abandonment of the traditional family accelerated and promotion of sodomy was advanced.

20 posted on 03/30/2012 10:28:12 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: rwfromkansas

What, you mean winning elections and consolidating power is potentially more important than throwing a litmus-test temper tantrum every time one’s favorite issue is temporarily out of the limelight?

Clearly you must be a [insert name of current Two Minutes’ Hate target] supporter!!! Zot the moderate!

(/s)


21 posted on 03/30/2012 10:44:18 AM PDT by sthguard (The DNC theme song: "All You Need is Guv")
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To: C19fan

Republicans retreat on gay marriage


They tried that strategy in Massachusetts.
It didn’t go well....

April 8, 2009
New Mass. Republican Party Chairman says party will no longer oppose same-sex “marriage”, abortion, other “social issues”
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/09b/nassour/index.html

April 21, 2010
Mass GOP convention nominates most extreme pro-gay Governor & Lt. Governor candidates in history
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/10b/gop_convention/index.html

Aug 4, 2010
Charlie Baker & Richard Tisei: a pro-family nightmare
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/govt10/election10/baker_tisei/index.html

Nov 4, 2010
Mass. Republicans lose ALL statewide & Congressional races
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/govt10/election10/general/results_statewide.html

Nov 5, 2010
Mass. Republican Party’s RINO strategy a big part of election losses in top state races
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/govt10/election10/gop_strategy/index.html


22 posted on 03/30/2012 10:45:23 AM PDT by massmike (Massachusetts: If they had just kept hanging witches a bit longer...........)
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To: C19fan

Now, as Bawney prepares to penetrate Hot Bottom (or whomever or whatever the perversion of the week may be) and call it “marriage,” the Romney leaning GOP is eager to send them a “wedding” present by caving. Hi ho and the household pets, farm animals and space aliens are NEXT!!! I would kvetch about Sodom and Gommorrah but even those towns had SOME standards.


23 posted on 03/30/2012 10:45:34 AM PDT by BlackElk ( Dean of Discipline ,Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Burn 'em Bright!)
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To: rwfromkansas
Not having active proposals on a matter does not mean you have stopped caring about it.

I guess you never heard the phrase "silence implies consent."

I stopped listening to much of anything these people say they stand for. Their actions speak so loud I can't hear them anyhow.

24 posted on 03/30/2012 10:50:30 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: C19fan; pallis

Our current platform reads:

“Preserving Traditional Marriage

Because our children’s future is best preserved within the traditional understanding of marriage, we call for a constitutional amendment that fully protects marriage as a union of a man and a woman, so that judges cannot make other arrangements equivalent to it. In the absence of a national amendment, we support the right of the people of the various states to affirm traditional marriage through state initiatives.

Republicans recognize the importance of having in the home a father and a mother who are married. The two-parent family still provides the best environment of stability, discipline, responsibility, and character. Children in homes without fathers are more likely to commit a crime, drop out of school, become violent, become teen parents, use illegal drugs, become mired in poverty, or have emotional or behavioral problems. We support the courageous efforts of single-parent families to provide a stable home for their children. Children are our nation’s most precious resource. We also salute and support the efforts of foster and adoptive families.

Republicans have been at the forefront of protecting traditional marriage laws, both in the states and in Congress. A Republican Congress enacted the Defense of Marriage Act, affirming the right of states not to recognize same-sex “marriages” licensed in other states. Unbelievably, the Democratic Party has now pledged to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, which would subject every state to the redefinition of marriage by a judge without ever allowing the people to vote on the matter. We also urge Congress to use its Article III, Section 2 power to prevent activist federal judges from imposing upon the rest of the nation the judicial activism in Massachusetts and California. We also encourage states to review their marriage and divorce laws in order to strengthen marriage.

As the family is our basic unit of society, we oppose initiatives to erode parental rights. “

This is the 2008 platform, which I think is the latest; I assume we’ll have a new platform in 2012, perhaps at or before the August convention.


25 posted on 03/30/2012 10:52:31 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: DarthVader
I think Politico constantly tries to get the knee-jerk conservatives into some nonexistent controversy to cause division and this is one of those moments.

Well, they're certainly empowered by the fact that what they are reporting about the consistent sellout of conservative principle by the Romney Republicans just happens to be TRUE.

26 posted on 03/30/2012 10:53:18 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: Persevero

As if the “leadership” of the Romney Republican Party pays any attention to the platform.


27 posted on 03/30/2012 10:54:44 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: C19fan

GOP nominates Mr Gay marriage himself

disgusting


28 posted on 03/30/2012 11:01:31 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: EternalVigilance

You are right that in many cases, they have failed the conservative cause despite supposedly championing it.

Certainly good cause to distrust them.


29 posted on 03/30/2012 11:26:41 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: wagglebee

You are dangerously close to a health/wealth gospel if you believe because we aren’t Christian anymore that’s the cause of our problems.

I agree with you that most likely there is a connection, but to attribute everything going just great all the time with ‘good morals’ is not biblical.

I have no quibble with you saying that a failing family core/social structure etc. will then lead to changes in values/loss of other morals etc. that ultimately could bring us down. It happened to Rome and could happen here.

But, you seem to go a bit beyond that there...


30 posted on 03/30/2012 11:32:34 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: EternalVigilance

I don’t like Romney winning the primary. But, why does he get all the blame and not the half-dozen conservatives in the race to try to challenge him?

If Santorum or Gingrich would have dropped out long ago, Romney could have been stopped.


31 posted on 03/30/2012 11:39:04 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: All; C19fan
Republicans in Congress don’t care to have gay marriage litigated in the Capitol.

Maybe... because it has no business being litigated in the Capitol? Marriage is a state issue, it's always been a state issue and should stay a state issue.

Amending the constitution isn't going to happen in the normal course of things since you'll never get two-thirds of both houses to send it to the states for ratification in this social-political climate.

Unless and until SCOTUS strikes down CA's state constitutional, Prop 8, as federally unconstitutional and/or they rule against DOMA, this issue is dead at the federal level where they have far more pressing matters like runaway deficits, a roadkill recovery and no budget in 1000 days.

32 posted on 03/30/2012 11:45:46 AM PDT by newzjunkey (Newt says, "A nominee that depresses turnout won't beat Barack Obama.")
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To: EternalVigilance; All
Ok, what would you have them do?

No sane person believes a marriage amendment, which couldn't get passed 10 years ago, can get passed today.

When Ronnie Shows (D-MS) tried in 2002, he failed. When Marily Musgrave (R-CO) tried in 2003, she failed. When Sen. Allard (R-CO) tried in 2004-2006, he failed. When Paul Broun (R-GA) tried in 2008, he failed.

To my knowledge they've never gotten cloture in the Senate to even vote on an amendment directly. The House has never gotten more than about 60 votes short of those needed.

The issue--a state issue--is in the federal court system working its way to SCOTUS. What do you expect House or Senate Republicans to do other than waste time?

Is the House Republican defense of DOMA before the courts, because Obama-Holder, refused "silence" in your lexicon? Give me a break!

33 posted on 03/30/2012 11:56:33 AM PDT by newzjunkey (Newt says, "A nominee that depresses turnout won't beat Barack Obama.")
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To: rwfromkansas
It’s a natural shift due to a change in times.

"Times" don't shift on their own. We're not Marxists; history doesn't move according to its own inscrutable dynamic. History changes because people make choices and take actions.

It would be foolish to run an election on social issues when people can’t put food on the table.

It would be foolish to worry about putting food on the table if human life and freedom are meaningless. If that's where matters are headed, then to hell with the country and all the rest. Who needs it?

34 posted on 03/30/2012 12:31:10 PM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: rwfromkansas; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
You are dangerously close to a health/wealth gospel if you believe because we aren’t Christian anymore that’s the cause of our problems.

In the past four decades we have murdered over 53 MILLION Americans and when you consider that a large portion of them would have since had children, we have probably lost close to 100 MILLION people who would be consumers, investors, workers, taxpayers, etc. This has nothing to do with any health/wealth gospel, this is about the real consequences of population control and these consequences are compounded by the fact that we have programs like Medicare and Social Security that require predictable population growth.

I have no quibble with you saying that a failing family core/social structure etc. will then lead to changes in values/loss of other morals etc. that ultimately could bring us down. It happened to Rome and could happen here.

It already has happened here and hopefully it's not to late to rectify the situation.

35 posted on 03/30/2012 12:34:55 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: newzjunkey

Marriage is a natural law issue. That’s why it must be defended at every level of governance.

To support “laws” that violate the natural law is to destroy the rule of law, and thereby to destroy the possibility of being a free people, and of passing along liberty to our children and grandchildren.


36 posted on 03/30/2012 12:35:57 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: rwfromkansas; wagglebee

This has nothing to do with prosperity Gospel. This is about two missing generations of workers, consumers, and taxpayers. This is about the social disintegration and staggering attendant economic costs that accompany the chaos wrought by sexual “liberation”. This is about the inability of any economy to bear the load of an aging population without succeeding generations for demographic balance.


37 posted on 03/30/2012 12:48:21 PM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I’d say that Jake Sherman and Anna Palmer are trying to bait us.

Judging by the tone of most of this thread I'd say you're right.

The GOP just had some big votes on the budget and oil subsidies this week.

Are they supposed to vocalize every issue every day? They've probably gone 2 weeks without saying anything about gay marriage so that signifies "consent"?

Sheesh...it's so easy for the MSM to dupe the right.

38 posted on 03/30/2012 1:21:10 PM PDT by what's up
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To: wagglebee; rwfromkansas
when you consider that a large portion of them would have since had children, we have probably lost close to 100 MILLION people who would be consumers, investors, workers, taxpayers, etc.

Or doctors, scientists, inventors... Perhaps one would have found a cure for cancer, lupis or some other currently incurable disease.

39 posted on 03/30/2012 1:33:17 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: rwfromkansas; wagglebee
America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within. - Joseph Stalin

"Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity. … In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches and the media by transforming the consciousness of society." Antonio Gramsci - Marxist - teacher of Saul Alinsky

40 posted on 03/30/2012 2:01:10 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Cantor to Boehner: “It’s dead John.”


41 posted on 03/30/2012 2:26:34 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (I declare for Santorum.)
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To: C19fan

Republicans are on a gay marriage retreat?


42 posted on 03/30/2012 2:29:26 PM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: rwfromkansas

The GOP-e wants to marginalize so called “socons.” Human nature and Natural Law never changes, and there won’t be food on the table unless this fact of life is acknowledged.


43 posted on 03/30/2012 2:31:56 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (I declare for Santorum.)
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To: EternalVigilance
To support “laws” that violate the natural law is to destroy the rule of law, and thereby to destroy the possibility of being a free people, and of passing along liberty to our children and grandchildren.

Well said.

44 posted on 03/30/2012 2:47:15 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Lauren BaRecall

The Republican party is on a suicidal course. But, just like so-called suicide bombers, they’re going to kill us as well. If real conservatives can’t take it over, I don’t see any other option than making a real 3rd party.


45 posted on 03/30/2012 2:50:49 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I’d say that Jake Sherman and Anna Palmer are trying to bait us.

That's clearly the case.

Their assertion is "supported" only by quotes that -- justifiably -- suggest that the economy is a bigger issue than "gay rights". To which, I'd wager that most of us would agree.

They cite not a single case of legislative activity that supports their contention.

Misinformation and misdirection -- a form of propaganda that the left excels in. And many on the right don't recognize...

46 posted on 03/30/2012 3:00:14 PM PDT by okie01
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To: okie01; BlackElk; wagglebee; Steve Schulin; Gelato
the economy is a bigger issue than "gay rights". To which, I'd wager that most of us would agree.

What folks like yourself ignore, or are simply ignorant of, is that the natural family is the very basis for economics. It's even the root of the etymology of the very word economics.

Money problems are the symptom, not the disease. The destruction of the basic unit of our civilization, the family, is the disease.

And, like leftists, y'all just want us to blow that off as unimportant.

Digging down to why that is might be interesting, although I could make a pretty good guess if I was so inclined.

47 posted on 03/30/2012 4:56:45 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: EternalVigilance; BlackElk; wagglebee; Steve Schulin; Gelato
What folks like yourself ignore, or are simply ignorant of, is that the natural family is the very basis for economics. It's even the root of the etymology of the very word economics.

Question: What in hell makes you think that I disagree with your position? I stated absolutely nothing to the contrary in my post.

Instead, I pointed that the news story was disingenuous, in that no statement within it supported their assertion. It was an insidious propaganda statement designed to separate Republican Congressmen from their base.

That is a totally proper assessment. And I said nary a word that could be interpreted as attacking families and their importance in American society.

Yet, you attack me. Why?

48 posted on 03/30/2012 5:09:31 PM PDT by okie01
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To: rwfromkansas
I don’t really see the big deal.

THEN you REALLY do not understand what REPUBLICAN means, what the Republican party is all about. LIMITED GOVERNMENT.

Liberals are advancing and promoting 'immoral' issues via the strong arm of government.

It is up to Republicans to assure limited government. Your contention is tantamount to a limited government by retreat of Republicans so that only liberals set 'moral' policy.

You and your kind seem transfixed with who wins the throne, and how best to win the throne. Putting in place our king versus their king and by doing this ignoring, for political convenience and political success, the true King, God.

Your 'financial' moral free government king is just as bad as the liberals immoral social justice government king. You and your kind are one of two sides of the same coin.

Your attitude is why we are in this shape we are in.

We do not want a government that is king -that is why moral issues are important.

Without God there are no unalienable rights -no freedom.

Get a clue!

49 posted on 03/30/2012 5:52:31 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: rwfromkansas; wagglebee; narses

So, when times are bad we might as well put Stalin in charge so long as he plans to deal with the economy. /s


50 posted on 03/30/2012 5:57:39 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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