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Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
Chicago Tribune ^ | 3/31/12 | Jeff Weiner

Posted on 03/31/2012 4:44:41 PM PDT by Krankor

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: blackkk; florida; georgezimmerman; trayvonmartin
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To: demas415
Do you like Kitties, Viking Kitties?

The sky is blue, pass it on.

101 posted on 03/31/2012 6:18:06 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (A day without Obama is like a day without a Tsunami.)
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To: demas415

” Those are not nice things to do, and he sounded very disturbed in those recordings.”

When one is getting one’s head bashed in......one tends to come off as “Disturbed”

Once again

I B T Z


102 posted on 03/31/2012 6:20:05 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: demas415

Ya know, I was thinking of explaining to you why those incidents are irrelevant here, but it’s not worth the effort...


103 posted on 03/31/2012 6:20:33 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: demas415

Really? If it is public,then you should be able to find it and post it for us then, right? You DO know how to post your information, don’t you?

Please. Educate us. I really want to see the “obvious” information about this guy that backs up your assertion that everyone involved, from the EMTs on up are all in on this to protect the son of a magistrate.

We will all wait while you pull it out of somewhere.


104 posted on 03/31/2012 6:21:20 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: rlmorel

I can’t talk about my opinions here?

All of the top rank officials went to the station on a Sunday night for Zimmerman. One of them drove 50 miles to get there. That is obviously special treatment.


105 posted on 03/31/2012 6:21:37 PM PDT by demas415
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To: piytar
Hey !

lol

106 posted on 03/31/2012 6:21:42 PM PDT by tomkat (resistor)
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To: Kickass Conservative

Why is that person still allowed to draw Free Republic air?


107 posted on 03/31/2012 6:22:35 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: Kickass Conservative

I don’t know Viking Kittens


108 posted on 03/31/2012 6:23:01 PM PDT by demas415
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To: demas415
Opinions, certainly.

Pontifications will tend to alienate all the kewl kids.

They're also positively correlated with spontaneous electrical overloads.

Play nice . . .

109 posted on 03/31/2012 6:24:28 PM PDT by tomkat (resistor)
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To: demas415

Back up your “opinions” (and that is a generous characterization) and you can post all you want.

If you are going to come on this site and talk out your rear, we aren’t interested. Go over to DU, they love your kind over there.


110 posted on 03/31/2012 6:25:12 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: mass55th
After the Sentinel contacted Owen...
How did the Sentinel know to contact Owen?
As I asked before...was he hired?
111 posted on 03/31/2012 6:27:45 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: demas415
Those are not nice things to do, and he sounded very disturbed in those recordings. Disturbed that he was working hard to pay his bills and there were thieves and thugs in his neighborhood breaking into homes and stealing? One of those homes was occupied at the time of the break in by a woman and two small children. She later said Zimmerman came over to tell her they could go and stay with his wife if it happened again. That and other incidents made him and others decide to start a neighborhood watch.
112 posted on 03/31/2012 6:30:30 PM PDT by gopcharger
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To: Krankor

Not sure of the sources for this, but this blog says that Tom Owen, the voice expert, was hired by the Martin family’s attorney:

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2012/03/voice-expert-hired-by-martin-family-attorneys-cant-confirm-or-deny-that-voice-calling-for-help-on-911-tape-isnt-zimmerman/


113 posted on 03/31/2012 6:30:43 PM PDT by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: Krankor

“The software compared that audio to Zimmerman’s voice. It returned a 48 percent match. “

So you could flip a coin and get the same result. Reasonable doubt?

I think it was “the man” on the grassy knoll who shot Trayvon.


114 posted on 03/31/2012 6:31:46 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: The Wizard
both hired by naacp and nbc I’m sure, or maybe black al or black jesse....
Hired for the parents by them perhaps?
115 posted on 03/31/2012 6:32:12 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Qbert
.. Tom Owen, the voice expert, was hired by the Martin family’s attorney


116 posted on 03/31/2012 6:33:58 PM PDT by tomkat (resistor)
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To: rlmorel
See Post 108.

He is a Newbie and doesn't understand that accusations, (not opinions), require facts unlike posting at DU and Daily Kos.

117 posted on 03/31/2012 6:34:43 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (A day without Obama is like a day without a Tsunami.)
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To: Qbert
There is absolutely NO context for the "expert's" assertion.

He says there should be above a 90 score for a match. Yet the website for the software says "anything over 85% is a VERY VERY HIGH LIKELIHOOD" that the voices are the same.

That suggests 48% would be even chance or better, even more so since it is a recorded distant SCREAM recorded over a phone call from a DISTANCE from the scream, tested against a VOICE speaking directly into a phone (911 call).

118 posted on 03/31/2012 6:34:43 PM PDT by gopcharger
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To: rlmorel

I don’t go to DU because my family is conservative and I came here because I’m home schooled and this is part of civics study.

The trajectory of the bullet will prove it one way or the other in my opinion. He sounded disturbed when he talked to the police and he was disturbed when he shoved a policeman. His dad is a retired magistrate and important parents can pull strings like Al Gore did.


119 posted on 03/31/2012 6:35:00 PM PDT by demas415
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To: umgud

Perhaps Martin is getting tired of beating Zimmerman, while holding onto his skillets, and was screaming for help to finish off Zimmerman...../S

Once the media tries to shy away because the truth is beating the crap out of them, we should email them to ask why they are no longer looking for the truth to protect Martin....Why should facts matter?


120 posted on 03/31/2012 6:36:27 PM PDT by NCDave (AKA, "That idiot over there")
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To: demas415

Who are “all” of these top officials you say went to the station? It is not obvious to me why someone who drove 50 miles into the station is suspicious. There could be many reasons. I have no idea, maybe it was SOP. Help me out.


121 posted on 03/31/2012 6:40:14 PM PDT by ironman
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To: Ozymandias Ghost
1.She was two doors down from “right behind” the location

2. She was talking most of the time on the recording.

3. When she wasn't talking, the 911 operator was talking.

4. When she and the 911 operator weren't talking, a male in the apartment was talking

5. When she and the 911 operator and the male weren't talking, someone kept running into, moving, or dropping things. (one of the noises was so loud that many people thought it was another gunshot)

6. The person is hysterically screaming, fearing for his life. On the previous 911 calls, Zimmerman is speaking slowly and softly.

7. The eye & ear witness, John, whose apartment IS directly behind the event scene, says to the cops (that night)and the reporters (the next day)that he SAW Zimmerman screaming for help, He HEARD Zimmerman screaming for help, He told Trayvon Martin TO STOP!

8. Originally, Trayvon’s parents said it was not Trayvon screaming for help.

9. Zimmerman's father, brother, and friend all identify the voice as George Zimmerman.

10. The witness, John, who knows George and says he sees him almost every day, that it was George screaming.

WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED? To know that these two expert stooges couldn't possibly be correct that the voice is Trayvon.

SECONDS after the shot, John the eyewitness, saw Trayvon dead on the ground, not saying anything, ever again.

see video upper left corner. Notice the date. 2/27/12 the next day!
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

122 posted on 03/31/2012 6:42:38 PM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: RIghtwardHo
As a former Prosecutor of 25 years I am stunned Zimmerman wasn’t charged with Manslaughter. There is way more than enough probable cause to do so. I certainly expect he will be by the Special Prosecutor. I think 2nd Degree Murder is going to far, but this is somewhere between Involuntary and Voluntary. An easy call.

On what basis. This is what we know:

1)Zimmerman spotted someone in the complex he didn't recognize who was acting suspicious, like he was on drugs, or something. (his words from the police call), and he started to follow him. (not illegal)

2)Trayvon noticed that Zimmerman was following him and complained to his girlfriend on the phone about it.

3)Zimmerman may or may not have started back to his truck after he lost sight of Trayvon.

4)At some point, they got close enough to each other (whether Zimmerman had found Trayvon and continued to follow him, or Trayvon jumped Zimmeman) to have a verbal confrontation (according to the girlfriend on the phone).

5)At some point the verbal confrontation turned into a physical confrontation, and there are no witnesses who saw how it became physical.

6)A witness did state that he saw Zimmerman on his back being beaten by Trayvon. Zimmerman shot Trayvon (or perhaps the gun went off as they struggled for control of it).

Now it would appear to me that if Zimmerman's story was the same as the witnesses for the parts of his story that the police can prove, it would tend to give credence to the parts of Zimmerman's story where there were no witnesses. Remember, when Zimmerman was telling his story to the police, he had no way of knowing what any witnesses may have seen. On the other hand, if the police found that Zimmerman's story didn't jive with the forensic evidence and the witness statements, that is a good clue that he may have been lying during the time there were no witnesses.

I can see this story from both sides. Zimmerman got his adrenalin up when he saw Trayvon, and Trayvon got his adrenalin up when he saw Zimmerman. They faced off and the testosterone took over. It matters a great deal who threw the first punch (to me at least), something we will never know for sure; but to convict Zimmerman, it seems to me that they would have to prove that it was Zimmerman who threw that first punch.

123 posted on 03/31/2012 6:43:01 PM PDT by Aunt Polgara
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To: ironman; demas415

” Who are “all” of these top officials you say went to the station? It is not obvious to me why someone who drove 50 miles into the station is suspicious. There could be many reasons.”

I would like to hear this too!


124 posted on 03/31/2012 6:43:18 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Krankor

And still despite all this and with even an invite from the state of Florida, back on March 19th, Obama has yet to even suggest or ask that Zimm be arrested.


125 posted on 03/31/2012 6:44:54 PM PDT by NoLibZone (We can't allow the horrible death of Trayvon Martin to be used as an excuse to disarm us.)
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To: RIghtwardHo

I’m not certain which state you practise law, but I practised in VA and there is evidence that in VA he would not be prosecuted.

If the facts show that Zimmerman’s head was being slammed into concrete and Zimmerman did not initiate the first physical contact, then he can use deadly force to defend himself in VA.


126 posted on 03/31/2012 6:46:00 PM PDT by fini
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To: ironman

The reports say that the chief of police went to the station personally for Zimmerman on a Sunday night, and that say that he consulted with the state attorney Norm Wolfinger in person, which they say is very rare.

I don’t think they would have done those things for an arrested man with regular parents


127 posted on 03/31/2012 6:47:48 PM PDT by demas415
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To: demas415; All
Don't get us wrong, we appreciate your participation.

It seems you are confusing “accusations” with “opinions”.

BTW - The Viking Kitties magically appear when that type of confusion takes over a Thread. Just letting you know.

128 posted on 03/31/2012 6:48:21 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (A day without Obama is like a day without a Tsunami.)
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To: demas415; rlmorel
Here's a story I found which is probably what the newbie is talking about...
@Zimmerman accused of domestic violence, fighting with a police officer
129 posted on 03/31/2012 6:48:33 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: rlmorel; stephenjohnbanker
We will all wait while you pull it out of somewhere.

It could stink to high heaven, you know.

130 posted on 03/31/2012 6:48:33 PM PDT by melancholy (Professor Alinsky, Enslavement Specialist, Ph.D in L0w and H0lder)
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To: philman_36
"How did the Sentinel know to contact Owen? "

I'm sure the media has a set group of paid "experts" on various subjects that they go to. Couldn't tell you if he was hired just for this. I'm assuming it's possible some of these "experts" have contracts with the press.

131 posted on 03/31/2012 6:50:31 PM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: demas415

” The reports say that the chief of police went to the station personally for Zimmerman on a Sunday night,”

WHAT reports?


132 posted on 03/31/2012 6:55:03 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: demas415; Admin Moderator; darkwing104

Oh, you’re a young adult? That explains a lot.

Read more. Learn. Post facts, not unsupported media fed supposition.

Your post on this thread and some others (eg, over-extended uemployment not being welfare) show some lack of true consideration of the complexities of the issues and the facts. But as a young adult, that’s to be expected.

FYI, the trajectory of the bullet MAY prove more, but it may not. Also, when there’s a killing, the big wigs usually come in. Finally, retired magistrates don’t necessarily have significant pull.

Nuture, Freepers. There is some hope with this one.

/prior call for kitties called off, but it’s not my call anymore, never was...


133 posted on 03/31/2012 6:55:11 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: demas415

“.....In the video Zimmerman is still wearing the red jacket, so I’m assuming the police didn’t collect his shirt

Another question I have. If Zimmerman had an open bleeding wound on the back of his head, why didn’t the EMT bandage it?”
****************************************************************
demas, do some research through all the “Treyvon” threads here and you’ll see that the Police DID KEEP his shirt/jacket. You do realize that the video you saw was of Zimmerman coming into the police station for question. It wasn’t video of him coming out after the 5 hours of questioning he underwent.

Also, do a little more research on “closeups” of Zimmerman’s head on the “entering police station” video.

And, by the way, ASSUMPTION IS THE MOTHER OF ALL F*** UPS.

So what books are you using for your “home schooling civics”?


134 posted on 03/31/2012 6:55:11 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: dforest

Exactly. The mortician has stated no wounds on TM. GZ was pummeled enough to require EMTs. The witness “John” who was standing a mere few feet away says it was GZ. IIRC it was his 911 call that allowed the cries to be recorded.

And the best evidence of all is GZ made the statement while in the squad car he was “calling for help and no one came. “ There would be no way he could know that it had been recorded.


135 posted on 03/31/2012 6:56:21 PM PDT by moehoward
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To: demas415
"Another question I have. If Zimmerman had an open bleeding wound on the back of his head, why didn’t the EMT bandage it?"

They actually use a kind of adhesive for skin that seals it like superglue would. No need for a bandage if the wound was sealed and no longer bleeding.

136 posted on 03/31/2012 6:57:00 PM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde (Don't wish doom on your enemies ... plan it.)
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To: All

Once again we see with absolute proof and certainty that the MSM only vets those they choose to vet to push an agenda...or a candidate.


137 posted on 03/31/2012 6:57:26 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: VastRWCon
...If the angle boy Trayvon was getting his head bashed I wonder if he had any head injuries?...

Forensic evidence from Trayvon's knuckles would possibly show abrasions and/or brusing from punching Zimmerman. I'm betting officials already have that information.

138 posted on 03/31/2012 7:01:12 PM PDT by FReepaholic (Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.)
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To: demas415

Post up a link to these ‘reports’ you keep talking about.

I haven’t seen them anywhere on the net.


139 posted on 03/31/2012 7:02:25 PM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: demas415

Watch video, upper left corner. 2/27/12 the day after the shooting.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

All you need to know. Zimmerman is not guilty. Self defense, PERIOD. I don’t care who is dad was, or what name he didn’t call Martin, he is NOT GUILTY in the shooting.


140 posted on 03/31/2012 7:08:30 PM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: demas415

Really? Do you know how much entry wounds tend to bleed?


141 posted on 03/31/2012 7:12:25 PM PDT by Rifleman
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To: Krankor
If you can not figure out what it is, then look at what it is not.

If is is NOT Zimmerman, what would be the chances of actually getting a 48% match?



The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.



Ok, if a actual match is better than 90% could we not reasonably expect an elimination by the inverse, that a "no match" example would be 10% or less?

And if an intentional "no match" 10% example was the inverse of a match 90% example how the heck do you get to 48%?

Given the other factors such as background noise, volume, cell signal altering the voice spectrogram, brevity of the part being identified (who screamed?) etc, I would think that would degrade the "no match" 10% example even further to near zero.

Not having an inverse elimination because one DID get a 48% match just might be strong evidence it IS Zimmerman.

One would need a unbiased, disinterested third party analysis and opinion to expect a reasonable analysis.

What we are being presented is a former employee of the >>>New York<<< Public Library, a hand pick of the >>>Chicago Tribune<<< and paid by >>>Martin's<<< family comparing a scant few seconds of high pitched scream to normal volume speech samples.

Nope, no potential for bias there, right?

.

142 posted on 03/31/2012 7:12:25 PM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: demas415

Really? Do you know how much entry wounds tend to bleed?


143 posted on 03/31/2012 7:12:35 PM PDT by Rifleman
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To: demas415

He could easily have a butterfly on a head wound based on the grainy ABC video.


144 posted on 03/31/2012 7:14:27 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: NoLibZone
"....Obama has yet to even suggest or ask that Zimm be arrested."

In public....

145 posted on 03/31/2012 7:14:44 PM PDT by moehoward
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To: FreedomPoster

If they are up to date, they basically used medical superglue.


146 posted on 03/31/2012 7:16:56 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: TLI
One would need a unbiased, disinterested third party analysis and opinion to expect a reasonable analysis

I don't know if a reasonable analysis could be done without recording of Martin screaming assuming there are even recordings of him speaking.

I shudder to think it but if this case is tried it's possible they will have Zimmerman reenact screaming, record it from the same distance of the 911 call it was in the distant background on, and compare.

147 posted on 03/31/2012 7:17:17 PM PDT by gopcharger
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To: demas415

What reports? Media reports? CNBC? WHAT reports? Several have asked, and now I’ve defended you, so pony up with ONE report.


148 posted on 03/31/2012 7:20:12 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Krankor

The ‘experts’ will determine that it was whoever the Liberals want it to be screaming for help I’m afraid.


149 posted on 03/31/2012 7:21:43 PM PDT by Shadowstrike (Be polite, Be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: fini

I was a Prosecutor in Fairfax County, VA for 25 years. Absolutely it would be prosecuted.


150 posted on 03/31/2012 7:21:43 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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