Romney faces question about mormon faith

Star Tribune ^ | /02/2012 | Steve Peoples

[reaganaut]

I don’t know if the book of mormon says that or not but the Bishop sure as heck should know

- - - - -
It does.

2 Nephi 5:21 - And he had caused the acursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and bdelightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

[Elsie]

The problem Mormons run into is their prophets are supposed to be infallible and get direct revelation from God.

Not quite.

Their 'prophets' are mere men just like the rest of us mokes; unTIL they receive and process something from GOD.

THEN the 'prophet' has to be CONFIRMED by the Yesmen of Twelve.

UNAMIMOUSLY - just like the prophets of GOD in the OT did.

[Utah Binger]

The vetting will begin the instant he gets nominated. And the attacks by Odumbo will be so vicious that brother Romney will also go like a lamb to the slaughter.

To coin an oft heard phrase in Mormondumb. And I find no pleasure in this however Romney is a real dumb bastard for failing to understand this very simple concept.

[reaganaut]

That should have at least silenced the person asking the question since the general thought of society until a few decades ago was that black skin was the mark of Cain.

- - - - -
Which still does not excuse the racism in Mormonism since they claim that they are the ‘restored’ church and that their prophets receive direct revelation from God.

Unless you are claiming that GOD is a racist...

[Elsie]

Often the answer isn’t nearly as important as the question.

Ah...

I see you've had MORMON training...

---

 

 

Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

---

 

 

Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[reaganaut]

Mormonism is much closer and much more affiliated with Islam than any sort of Christianity.

Want sources?

[reaganaut]

Amen!

[Elsie]

... then read the book.

Or you can start by reading STATUES; in Temple Square.

---

THEN you can ask, "Just WHERE, in the BoM, can this FULLNESS be found?"

If you can't get to Mitt; just ask any MORMON on FR. I'm sure they'll be GLAD to help out!

[Elsie]

You would think he has stock answers already prepared for instances like this.

No, no, NO!

That's ME with all the canned responses!!!

[JAKraig]

One of Noah’s sons, Ham saw him naked so Noah cursed his son, “Cannan”. Cannan was to be a servant of servants. Tradition says the curse was black skin. Many people think this was the excuse the Israelites used to subjugate black Africans.

[Elsie]

Weren’t Cain’s descendant lost in the Flood? Aren’t we all descended from Noah?

Genesis 6:10
Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

We are not told WHO Noah's wife or the son's wives were descended from.

Or the wives of all of these guys; all the way back to ADAM:

Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech.

[Elsie]

...the general thought of society until a few decades ago was that black skin was the mark of Cain.”

It mattereth not what 'society' thinks; but what the BOOK says:

GENESIS 4:9-16

9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”

“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

10 The LORD said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the LORD said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

[Elsie]

Could you tell us, Mr. Romney, whether you are worried that the words of the SECOND Prophet of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints might be true??

---

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

Just as they had suddenly decided they no longer believed in the bit about polygamy 70 years earlier.

You are incorrect.

There is NOTHING in MORMON history that shows this.

What they did was to throw their god under the bus and quit PRACTICING polygamy!!

---

Here: read their 'press release' for yourself!!

---

 

    OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

---

---

---

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

---

---

---

 

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.

(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

 

 

 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.

 

(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

---

 

 

 

 

What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???

 

compared to...

 

 

 

 

Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 

 

or compared to...

 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.

 

---

---

 

So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!

 

Well; it DID last about 47 years!

 

---

---

---

 

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...

I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

 

[Enough is ENOUGH]

If Romney winds up as the nominee we had better see Obama hammered by embarrassing questions on Reverend Wright’s twenty years of sermons on racist black liberation theology and asked why he kept coming back year after year to hear the same racist black liberation theology over and over again.

It’s time to vet Obama. Forget the diversions they are putting out. No more contraception deception, no more Trayvon b/s. What about all of the black and white crimes that are 90% against whites. Obama is the issue, he is destroying our country. We are living under his dictatorship.

[Elsie]

Tradition says the curse was black skin.

Then today's 'tradition' says it's wearing a hoodie.

[katiedidit1]

Obama wrote about the Rev Wright being his mentor. I doubt the blacks will care or turn away from Obama...it doesnt matter what his background is to the Acorn voters, panthers, extremist, pro choice, greenies...they will vote for Obommie the Commie. Also, Obama has a trillion dollar war chest for his campaign..maybe the demographics in the USA have changed so much that unless the republicans are able to unite it will be one hell of an election.

[stpio]

... when is Romney going to be vetted?
Dang!

I’m TRYING!!!

I love you Elsie. XXOX

[Enough is ENOUGH]

You left out two important groups of voters, 1) the pool of independent voters who voted for Obama and 2) the pool of republican voters who wanted to teach the establishment rino republicans a lesson.

They are experiencing Obameconomics just like the rest of us. They are much worse off than before Obama was elected. They can’t be stupid enough to make the same mistake twice.

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

How do we know this was really a Paulbot? Historically, Wisconsin is on the outer limits of Moronidom. And Huntsman endorsed fellow Mormon Mitt Romney when he left the race. Keep in mind the last time an alleged Paulbot pulled a similar stunt, the target was Huntsman; however, the attack subsequently appeared to be traced back to the Huntsman campaign.

So I’m not convinced this was not an inside job by Romney supporters hoping to build up sympathy for their candidate.

[Salvation]

Mormonism is a cult. Stay away from it.....too many secrets.

Cults, Movements, World Religions
Sects and Satanic Cults

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

I hate to be a good sport, but Obama is at least nominally Christian. On the other hand, do the research: Mormonism is domestic Islam.

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

The answer, in Romney’s case, would have to be yes. Mormons have long claimed Joseph Smith Jr to be a second Mohamed.

[dfwgator]

A Muslim vs Mormon, some great choice we got there.

[stpio]

I have a question for any Mormon or former Mormon.

God loves when we show faith but He gives signs to strengthen that faith or to bring people to belief.

There are countless testimonies to CHRISTIAN signs of God (the miraculous). I can name three famous miracles, tested
and retested by science.

1. the Shroud of Turin

2. the Tilma of Guadalupe

3. the wounds of Christ (the stigmata) Padre Pio bore on
his person for fifty years

Please give me a famous Mormon miracle known because it too
was so marvelous, then tested by science.

A miracle is sign of God’s presence.

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

Generally the same religion. Including the belief that the most zealous adherents receive 72 virgins/wives in the afterlife. The only difference is that one is import, while the other is domestic.

[JAKraig]

Some people may have thought that, but it certainly was not the general thought of society. . . .
____________________________________________________________

Actually that was the prevailing thought until the 1960’s. Twenty years before that it was nearly universal. I was there and remember those days well. I would imagine that over 90% of America would have answered a poll question in the 1940’s about where did black skin come from and they would have said it was the mark of Cain. I’m not trying to be mean just showing that perceptions change and the beliefs of society also change.

I am not trying to make an argument supporting or not supporting anyone, just relaying facts so you can make your own more valid judgment.

[af_vet_rr]

Just wait until Obama's flying monkeys are finished with him...

They will make sure that people know about that passage, among many others. They'll make sure that people know that blacks were excluded from leadership positions up until the late 1970s.

[af_vet_rr]

The vetting will begin the instant he gets nominated. And the attacks by Odumbo will be so vicious that brother Romney will also go like a lamb to the slaughter.

To coin an oft heard phrase in Mormondumb. And I find no pleasure in this however Romney is a real dumb bastard for failing to understand this very simple concept

Romney's GOP backers are dumb bastards for failing to understand that Obama's people and the MSM will destroy Romney's chances if, God forbid, he gets the nomination.

[Caipirabob]

I get a cookie for searching before reposting this article - yipee!

[Caipirabob]

And they'll simply be quoting the direct text from any book of Mormon prior to the mid 70's.

The text has been revised in newer versions. I'd love an explanation on that given how they were written.

Mitt's going to get creamed over this.

Here's an article that highlights much of the text that will revisit some controversial text in the book of Mormon that will be used to reduce romney's campaign to a quivering bowl of jello during the election.

An article that explores the issues that we'll all need to confront in attemting to "sell" SnippyMcMittCare to the American public

When they go after romney on discrimination, they'll be using the religious doctrine he was raised on.

Now, I need to ask, seriously: How do we counter the hundreds of 30 second sound bytes that will be released by the DNC on this material?

How do we take direct text from their religious doctrine and say "Oh, they did mean YOU..."

How do we counter the accusation of institutionalized discrimination?

Romney is over before he ever gets started. Anyone who doesn't know this is either ignorant of the full text of the book or just deluding themselves. OR...They are a democrat poser drooling in anticipation of this fiasco.

[Caipirabob]

I remember that day in 1977 when LDS leader Spencer W. Kimball announced that they no longer believed in that particular part of their sacred scriptures.

Given how the text was initially transcribed, how can they justify changing anything?

Not a question to you, completely rhetorical. Mental image of me pulling my hair out.

[Caipirabob]

From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage." "That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

Jeez...He said that?!?!?

I've always felt it was necessary for us to integrate as an American people. That melding our strengths together into one people was a destiny of the American people. Sure, we end up looking like a rainbow, but one people united by faith, blood and culture.

Guess he won't be coming to our house for Thanksgiving...

[Elsie]

Jeez...He said that?!?!?

...Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

Well; according to the record; he did.

---

You know; them folks TEACHING in college manage to say a LOT of things:

(Go back up to #53...)

[Caipirabob]

Oh boy, I've just read much of the above to my wife and son. My daughter isn't awake just yet.

Fireworks...

[T Minus Four]

He should have been ready with an answer SIX YEARS AGO. If he and his campaign hasn’t prepared themselves for this, they are way too stupid to be trusted with the presidency.

No kidding! He's stupid enough to follow this dumb@$$ religion and too stupid to have a defense for his beliefs.

[T Minus Four]

the general thought of society until a few decades ago was that black skin was the mark of Cain.

You're joking, right? You must either have forgotten the sarcasm tag or you are so steeped in Mormonism that you don't realize that this is a UNIQUE (and insane) belief of Mormons only, completely fabricated out of thin air.

Christians know the mark, according to the bible, was for Cain's protection, and we are not told what form it took.

[PennsylvaniaMom]

Elsie...thank for all your research and postings here. I was struck by a quote above “i am my brother’s keeper.” _resident Soetaro just used that a couple days ago. Barry has 2 public modes now—dumb yet professorial sounding and, dumb and Black Preacher sounding. Look to little drips and drops of benign LDS to creep into the preaching...a set up to seque into Myth’s family history (the Mexican expatriation of grandpa Romney about that whole plural marriage thing) to planetary gods to magic garmies. Oh the fun the Obots will have. Like taking the mike from the Paulbot—the answer is no answer, just pretend it (LDS) isnt a part of this...and THIS is after six years of campaign prep!

[Elsie]

Elsie...thank for all your research and postings here.

I am merely a small voice; crying in the wilderness. (Please forgive my sacrilege here.) If only I had the ability to buy ink by the barrel!

---

Are there enough informed people left to man the rudder of this Great Ship of State?

The masses have been lulled and dulled into bread and circuses and they clamor for more...

[Elsie]

The masses have been lulled and dulled into bread and circuses and they clamor for more...

What have we become?

We elected an unknown Black/White man last time; and now it appears that many are willing to put a KNOWN deceived MORMON in the fight against him!

[Elsie]

Are you still killing your unborn?

-- GOD

 

[Elsie]

Genesis 18:21 niv
...I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

[Elsie]

(Go back up to #53...)

Ooops!

I meant 55!