Jim Marshall, creator of the Marshall amp, dies aged 88

Guardian ^ | 05 APR 12 | Michael Hann

[Wurlitzer]

“But what makes Marshall amplifiers great is their distortion sound. “

---

I know some care for that distortion and given how many fuzz boxes were sold which created 50% distortion it may be a lot of people care for that. There will always be people with more money than brains or taste but it is their money and taste is just individual taste so bless anyone who can make money with mediocrity.

I grew up with Hi-Fi and Stereo systems where you did everything possible to eliminate distortion to reproduce the sound of the original instruments.

There were a bunch of dope smokin hippys who equated distortion with very high decibels as that is what you got when you ran the gain up higher than the amp/speaker could handle.

A lot of money was and continues to be spent on questionable music with almost unlimited distortion and the sound of real instruments is completely lost. For example, remember you cannot spell crap without rap.

Fortunately in our society we can choose what we spend our money on, (at least until Odumbo tells us what music to buy) and there is enough choices for all of us.

Distortion??? No thanks it is like pencils in my ears. I like the occasional very loud music, which the pipe organ or orchestra, or band can deliver in almost unlimited db Levels with no distortion whatsoever.

[Wurlitzer]

Sorry for the double post but the laptop crashed just as I was posting this.

Anyway, regarding amps/speakers and distortion. The only way you can amplify and reproduce an audio signal without distortion is to have a perfectly linear system. Any non-linear component will create distortion and the more non-linear the greater the distortion.

As of this date, there are no amps/speaker systems on the market that are completely linear although they have come damned close and more than likely the distortion is below what a real human can detect. Some who believe in gas filled cables or gold escutcheon screws will claim they can hear it but it is highly unlikely.

Even in the high end systems, when you push up the volume level you start clipping (a very bad non-linear condition) and yuck starts to happen.

[Yardstick]

Distortion just changes the roughly sinusoidal output of a guitar to a square or triangle wave. These are the same waveforms created by reed instruments and bowed strings. The original fuzzboxes were incredibly harsh and primitive sounding but modern distortion devices are extremely musical and give the guitar a nice sustaining quality, allowing the player to play the same lines that a horn or strings player can play. You mentioned that a pipe organ can replicate the sounds of some other instruments. In principle this seems to be same thing that guitarists are doing with distortion.

[Drew68]

There were a bunch of dope smokin hippys who equated distortion with very high decibels as that is what you got when you ran the gain up higher than the amp/speaker could handle.

You seem to have enjoyed using this thread as a forum to bash rock and roll music as well as the people who listen to it. Your opinion notwithstanding, rock music was for fifty years the dominant genre of music in popular culture taking off in the early 1950s and only recently being replaced by rap/hip-hop in terms of popularity.

An overdriven electric guitar was the primary instrument in this genre. Rock is not rock unless the guitar is distorted and this is where Jim Marshall was such an important force. You see, the electric guitar is actually a system of two components, each useless without the other. There is the instrument itself and there is the amplifier. To say the amplifier masks the "real" sound of the guitar makes absolutely no sense. The amplifier is as much a part of the "real" sound of an electric guitar as the pieces of wood and strings slung over the player's shoulder.

Distortion??? No thanks it is like pencils in my ears.

Thanks for sharing. Me? I like the sound of Gibson Les Pauls plugged into dimed Marshall Plexis. There is nothing else like it.

[Wurlitzer]

Make no mistake like that other pompous guy on this thread, I know my taste in music is no longer main stream.

Funny you should mention reeds and their waveform as they are my least favorite pipes in the organ. They can (not all) have a buzz to them. A free reed clarinet is as smooth as velvet.

You are correct in that my ears prefer a rounded sinusoidal wave form so typical of many acoustic instruments.

Regarding Rock & Roll, it did exist before the electric guitar and I loved it. It lost me with heavy metal and the wailing of something akin to a tuned dentist drill and the obnoxious Wall of Sound.

Mediocrity has succeeded big time in so many fields of endeavor.

Popularity does not always equal high quality. EG: McDonalds, Microsoft, RAP...

Anyway enough thread drift. Cheers.

[Drew68]

The hybrid Artist series heads have a good reputation these days. They were mostly overlooked until the JCM800s started becoming collectible and people started looking for less expensive alternatives.

It's kinda funny how everything is cyclical. In the 1980-90s, you couldn't give non-master volume Plexis away. Everyone wanted JCM800s. Now I'm seeing 50 watt JCM800 single-channel heads going used for $700 (and knock a couple hundred more off dual channel JCM800 heads) while original '67-'69 Plexis are commanding $3-$4k if not more.

Lots of good deals to be had on those mid-70s JMP models as well --except that so many of them have been modded. Some for the better, others not so much. It's kinda a crapshoot.

[Drew68]

Make no mistake like that other pompous guy on this thread,

You chime in repeatedly on a thread discussing the passing of Jim Marshall to compare the sound of overdriven guitars to dentist drills and that you prefer pipe organs. Yet I'm the one who's pompous?

Thanks for sharing.

[Drew68]

Sad news to the Metal ping list.

[Captain Beyond]

Wow as a proud owner of much Marshall gear I give my heart felt condolences to the Marshall Family.

He was a true visionary of the sonic tapestry of Rock-N-Roll. Thank you Jim for your great contributions to the musical world of heavy metal, blues, etc.

[AGreatPer]

Marshall Amps were OK but their speakers always sucked. We made our own boxes for speakers. 4 25 Lb magnet speakers in each. Separate horns for the high end.
We used to blow the round roof off at the Pittsburgh Civic Arena.

Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels refused to go on after they heard us. So, they rented our speakers for the night.

Nobody could hold a candle to us for loudness. Best part, we could sing.

[Drew68]

Marshall Amps were OK but their speakers always sucked.

You don't like Celestions? C'mon! LOL! Greenbacks were perfect!

Though I'm also a fan of those Fane speakers that Dave Reeves put into his Hiwatts. And then there's Eminence... Pretty much these were the three giants of guitar speakers.

[ZirconEncrustedTweezers]

I have yet to own a Marshall amp, even though almost every guitarist I consider an influence on my style (or that I ever stole a lick from) used Marshalls at least occasionally. My rig is a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, and while I lament the fact that it doesn’t do that thick, crunchy distortion of a good Marshall amp, there ain’t a Marshall in existence that can match its clean tone (oddly, that was what sold me on the HRD, even though I don’t play clean very often).

As a point of interest, Jim Marshall’s very first amp was in most respects a copy of a ‘59 Fender Bassman. The difference in tone came from the differences in his components versus those that Fender used.

[Salamander]

A lyrical tribute via BOC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQqfegOZ_X0

“The Marshall Plan”

In a dark horse town, in the middle of the west
Where Friday takes so long to arrive
Johnny wakes up dreaming and turns on the radio

The he jumps up playin’ his guitar in the mirror
Starts his day with a rock and roll pulse
Tonight’s the night that Suzy and he
Are goin’ to a rock and roll show

Tonight, I’m gonna see some rock and roll
Yeah, my favorite group is playin’
Tonight, I’m gonna see some rock and roll

Well it’s showtime, and he’s caught up in the crowd
He hates the crush, but he loves the music loud
He reaches out, but Suzy’s disappeared,

Now Johnny’s standin’ on a corner, after the show
Lookin’ for his Suzy dear
But there goes his Suzy in the band’s limousine, yeah
Well that’s the way it goes at these rock and roll shows

That’s the way it goes
It’s rock and roll
Well, that’s the way it goes
It’s rock and roll

Now Suzy’s gone, and Johnny hears a thunder
As he rolls another number and he counts
He counts the times he’s dreamt himself to be the hero

‘Cause then when Suzy (was a bore??)
He’s heard about adventure
As he looks into the mirror now he knows
He must be the star and play guitar like thunder
And find Suzy at his rock and roll show

Boy, if I only had a good guitar and a big amp
Boy, it wouldn’t be somebody else takin’ my girl away
I tell ya, I know what I should do
I’ll put an ad in the paper, and get a few other guys
Who wanna play as much as I do
I tell ya, I ain’t playin’ no surf music
I’m gonna play some heavy music
I’m gonna play bad, I’m gonna play loud
I know just what I want it to sound like
It’s gonna sound like, it’s gonna sound like -

(...guitar solo...)

This is Don Kirshner
And tonight on Don Kirshner’s Rock Concert
A new phenomenon in the music world
With six million albums to his credit in just two short years
My good friend, here’s Johnny

Now Johnny became a legend in his time
Found it easier to live in pain
Half-a-hero in a hard-hearted game

Now it’s showtime, and he’s caught up in the glow
He hates the rush but he needs the music so
Still he reaches out, but Suzy’s disappeared
Well that’s the way it goes at these rock and roll shows
It’s rock and roll

That’s the way it goes, it’s rock and roll (repeat)

“Cities On Flame (with Rock And Roll)”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OBs6S1lW_Q

My heart is black, and my lips are cold
Cities on flame with rock and roll
Three thousand guitars they seem to cry
My ears will melt, and then my eyes

Let the girl, let that girl, rock and roll
Cities on flame now, with rock and roll

Gardens of nocturne, forbidden delights
Reins of steel, and it’s alright
Cities on flame, with rock and roll
Marshall will buoy, but Fender control

So let the girl, let that girl rock and roll
Cities on flame now, with rock and roll

My heart is black, and my lips are cold
Cities on flame with rock and roll
Three thousand guitars they seem to cry
My ears will melt, and then my eyes

So let the girl, let that girl rock and roll
Cities on flame now, with rock and roll

RIP

Sal
[who once enjoyed the show perched atop Buck’s Marshall stack at a WV roadhouse]

[Salamander]

LOL

[wastedyears]

You may be surprised to find out how many metal bands there are who want their sound to be heavy enough, but crisp and clear with top-notch production.

Here’s something from Brazil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gxH05P-aRM

The album is a concept album about the creation of the Earth and humanity.

[Captain Beyond]

That Fender Hot Rod Deluxe is a sweet rig. Congrats on that. I have played through one a couple of times and loved what I heard. I have a Fender EC Trem for switching things up for practice. But for me I just perfer that raw Marshall sound and when I need to go clean I have the old reliable pedal board and great mixer system for the high flying solos and the soft parts when I need it. It kinda defines my sound for playing if you understand what I mean.

A few months ago I came in possession of older Hiwatt Amp from a friend that didn’t need it anymore and man can that bady dirty things up. It is a lot of fun to fool around with.

Love Zappa btw.
Montana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smZA9Jv3qH0

Another favorite of mine is Zomby Woof. Just love that dirty rift in there. You go through the scales learning this song it rocks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksnwEsPKO5s

[Captain Beyond]

Thanks for posting that I was looking boths of those up when I came back to the thread and saw it. Good Job nicely done Sir!

I just love the middle part after the bridge when Blue Oyster Cult does the “Smoke On The Water” rift (That launched a Hundred Thousand Guitars) then the one of the coolest song and guitar solo climaxes at:
tell ya, I ain’t playin’ no surf music
I’m gonna play some heavy music
I’m gonna play bad, I’m gonna play loud
I know just what I want it to sound like
It’s gonna sound like, it’s gonna sound like -

(...guitar solo...)
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Go Guitar Solo!!! I love that part.
For me that is quintessential heavy metal rock-n-roll music that I love.

On Hevay Metal-The Black and Silver I love the screeching feed back chord pull they do in that song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozgd-MMmZGg&feature=fvst

[Salamander]

You’re quite welcome.

[and I’m a Metal Ma’am, not Sir]

LOL

Oddly enough, possibly my fave BOC song is “The Golden Age Of Leather”. [or “Astronomy”. I can never decide]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDgJpQZae0E

Funky cool screaming solo.

What more could I ask?

[and I could easily turn this thread into a BOC fest in a heartbeat]...LOL

[Captain Beyond]

Your welcome Metal Ma’am. LOL (sorry about that)

I know what you mean on BOC love fest. I am already got my BOC MP3 file going. I spent a whole summer with a BOC song book and it was awesome. Golden Age of Leather -Killer- tune. Thanks for that.

For me it is between the live version of ME-262 from “On Your Feet Or On Your Knees”(One of the most awesome album titles ever) especially when they bring it home from the break and Rock the living molten metal out it at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgRdz3p5Voc

Then there is the live version of E.T.I from “Some Enchanted Evening” Love the jam add on for that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mDROfRCUG0

Then there is whole catalog of BOC songs lol I love.

[Captain Beyond]

Oh and BTW “Raise Your can of beer on high and seal your faith for ever!”