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Europe Is Baffled by the U.S. Supreme Court
The Atlantic Wire ^ | 4.5.2012 | John Hudson

Posted on 04/05/2012 6:24:07 PM PDT by TexasNative2000

Europe is scratching its head over possibility that the U.S. Supreme Court will strike down President Obama's signature legislative achievement. As the judiciary and the Obama administration trade legal barbs over the high court's authority, the idea that health care coverage, largely considered a universal right in Europe, could be deemed an affront to liberty is baffling.

"The Supreme Court can legitimately return Obamacare?" asks a headline on the French news site 9 POK . The article slowly walks through the legal rationale behind the court's right to wipe away Congress's legislation. "Sans précédent, extraordinaires" reads the article. In the German edition of The Financial Times, Sabine Muscat is astonished at Justice Antonin Scalia's argument that if the government can mandate insurance, it can also require people to eat broccoli. "Absurder Vergleich" reads the article's kicker, which in English translates to, "Absurd Comparison." In trying to defeat the bill, Muscat writes, Scalia is making a "strange analogy [to] vegetables."

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: euroserfs; eurosocialism; euroweenies; frogs; obamacare; serfblood; serfgenes; slavemindset; socializedmedicine
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They seem to not understand that their views of the relationship between citizen and government is one of the reasons their ancestors came to America.
1 posted on 04/05/2012 6:24:16 PM PDT by TexasNative2000
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To: TexasNative2000

Talk to a European about neo nazis or the klan and their heads explode at the idea that allowing them to exist in the open is a good thing.


2 posted on 04/05/2012 6:28:17 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: TexasNative2000

Europeans have LBJs idea of “Freedom” — “Freedom from work” “Freedom of vacations” “Freedom to have the State supply all your need” “Freedom to have countrywide tantrums if you don’t make my life easy.”

We saw how well that worked for Greece...


3 posted on 04/05/2012 6:28:17 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: TexasNative2000

..hey Europe, remember this guy?

4 posted on 04/05/2012 6:29:56 PM PDT by Doogle (((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated)))
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To: TexasNative2000

“Hey, what is this stuff called freedom?”. “Checks and balances?”. Geez, who wouldn’t want to be like Europe?! /s


5 posted on 04/05/2012 6:30:47 PM PDT by ReneeLynn (Socialism is SO yesterday. Fascism, it's the new black. Mmm mmm mmm...)
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To: TexasNative2000

Europe can use that baffler when they blow it out their arse.


6 posted on 04/05/2012 6:31:07 PM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: TexasNative2000
Hawaii used its statewide Equal Rights Amendment to try and validate gay marriages, i.e. if a man and a woman are equal before the law then there is no difference between a man marrying a woman and a man marrying a man.

When Phyllis Schlafly argued that this would happen back in the 70's when the ERA was being fought she was looked at with blank stares: how did you come up with that?

Easy. She used logic. Just like Scalia is doing by extending Obama's argument for mandates in the insurance industry to potential future mandates in the food industry.

7 posted on 04/05/2012 6:31:39 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: TexasNative2000

Way, way back in the very early 1970s, I was stationed in Germany in a unit that patrolled the east west German border. I asked my old first sergeant, who was in Korea and Vietnam, how we expected to defend against the Soviets short of nukes. He said, that is the only way we can defend. Without the nukes we are simply immediately dead. He then said that we were basically wasting our time in Germany. He said that eventually Europe would once againt be like it used to be. This guy was very smart. Actually had a law degree and got it while in the Army going through night schools in the states. He told me that the Germans were the real problem. He said really that we were there to keep the Germans from starting WW III. He said it was just in their blood. He also hated the French. He had nothing good to stay about the French. Always spoke of them like dogs. He said eventually we would be fighting another war over there. He is probably long gone fromt his earth by now, but his words still ring in my ears when I see all this Eurowinnie crap.


8 posted on 04/05/2012 6:32:12 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (He has Risen!!! If you do not know Him, this is the perfect week to seek Him out!!!)
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To: TexasNative2000
In one of the very few memorable statements by SoS Condi Rice, she observed at one time, "Europe's values and our values are not the same." This simple and superficially banal statement has profound truth behind it. For those who don't get it, it will have been ignored, if it even registered. The current article illustrates well what she must have been saying.

I have no doubt Europeans are baffled by the whole concept of a limited representative government of laws. The mess they have made of the EU era illustrates even further the incoherence and impotence of European political thought.

9 posted on 04/05/2012 6:32:29 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: freedumb2003

Yeah, just like 47% of Americans!


10 posted on 04/05/2012 6:32:43 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: cripplecreek
So the purpose of this article is to shame us into agreeing with the Euros? Sorry but it didn't work.

I love the continent of Europe with its history, art, architecture, and beauty - but not its politics.

11 posted on 04/05/2012 6:32:52 PM PDT by TexasNative2000 (Jimmy Carter's incompetence + Richard Nixon's paranoia = Barack Obama)
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To: TexasNative2000

I’d rather have Western Europe than this country under the Obumster! Let’s not kid ourselves while we’re ruled by a radical marxist.


12 posted on 04/05/2012 6:35:54 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Yep. The separation of powers is one of the true genius concepts of our Constitution. It continues to serve us well.


13 posted on 04/05/2012 6:35:54 PM PDT by TexasNative2000 (Jimmy Carter's incompetence + Richard Nixon's paranoia = Barack Obama)
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To: TexasNative2000
Right from the beginning European settlers in the Americas had liberties they could not imagine having been extended to anyone but the highest ranking nobles back home.

I don't know if you've noticed it or not but even in HIspano-America the dictators really don't get away with the stuff European dictators do (SEE: Hitler, Stalin), and there's always a popular uprising around that is, to a degree, actually a popular uprising and not just political party astroturf.

The United States and Canada are a bit tamer, but not by much.

In this situation we all know European opinion makers truly cannot conceive of a government with restrictions!

This is why they are not worth talking too except when you interrogate them after their next big war to see if they were a Nazi, a Commie, a Royalist, or some other kind of mind-numbed, knee-jerk, robot-like Leftwingtard.

14 posted on 04/05/2012 6:37:34 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: TexasNative2000

Perhaps this will explain the issue better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=HcBaSP31Be8&vg=medium


15 posted on 04/05/2012 6:38:05 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: TexasNative2000

Oui nous pouvons, grenouilles!


16 posted on 04/05/2012 6:38:37 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: TexasNative2000

I find their bafflement delightful and hope to see it turn to total mindblown dismay when Obamacare is overturned.


17 posted on 04/05/2012 6:39:57 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Doogle

The first law passed by the Nazi’s was addressing how to cook Lobster. You would think they would understand the Broccoli analogy.


18 posted on 04/05/2012 6:40:07 PM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: smokingfrog

Didn’t we leave Europe a few hundred years ago because it sucked there?


19 posted on 04/05/2012 6:40:19 PM PDT by Fred911 (YOU GET WHAT YOU ACCEPT)
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To: TexasNative2000

Well, there’s little or nothing meaningful in the EU constitution about such issues as freedom or representative government.

We derived our Constitutional system of law from English Common Law and Christian Natural Law. But that stuff is pretty much gone now over in Europe.


20 posted on 04/05/2012 6:41:31 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: TexasNative2000

There’s are reasons why I can them Euro-peons! Here’s one of them.


21 posted on 04/05/2012 6:41:32 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: TexasNative2000

If the Euros are scratching their heads, it’s a sure sign the Founders were absolutely correct in their approach.


22 posted on 04/05/2012 6:41:51 PM PDT by prairiebreeze
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To: RetiredArmy
A common view at the time ~ that the US and the Russians were both occupying Europe for the same reason, and that was to disestablish Germany and German culture in a long term effort to repress their ambition to achieve dominance through military conquest.

The big problem the Russians had and still have is they are DOWNWIND so whatever kind of war takes place upwind of them they don't want nukes used in the West.

That pretty well explained their vast investment in armored vehicles.

23 posted on 04/05/2012 6:43:16 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Fred911

Some of us are more recent arrivals. But yeah, we wanted to get away from all of that cr@p.


24 posted on 04/05/2012 6:43:53 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: RetiredArmy
He told me that the Germans were the real problem.

There used to be a slogan at the State Department that went "America in, Russia out, Germany down".

25 posted on 04/05/2012 6:44:52 PM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: TexasNative2000

Aren’t these the inhabitants of a continent that had to be bailed out of two world wars?

Aren’t these the inhabitants of a continent that are giving up their God-given rights to the muzzies?

Aren’t these the inhabitants of a continent that has forced its inhabitants to give up their weapons?

Even Benny Hill, over 20-30 years ago, made fun of the stupid health care the British had . . . and it’s gotten worse.


26 posted on 04/05/2012 6:45:50 PM PDT by laweeks
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To: TexasNative2000; cripplecreek; All
They might need to go back in British history and read how very well Edmund Burke understood what he called "the spirit of liberty" among the Americans.

In his "Speech on Conciliation" (1775), he documented the remarkable economic success in the colonies, the freedom which existed there, and gave his predictions about the future of the then-colonists.

And, that was before the Declaration of Independence and 1787 Constitution!

To understand the U. S. Constitution's strict limitations on government power, its structuring of a "People's" written Constitution for dividing, separating, checking, balancing, and enumerating the powers "the People" would grant to government, and the reasons why this President cannot just command his Partisan majority in Congress and laws will be rubber-stamped by a Supreme Court is to understand why America has enjoyed over 200 years of freedom!

"Although all men are born free, slavery has been the general lot of the human race. Ignorant—they have been cheated; asleep—they have been surprised; divided—the yoke has been forced upon them. But what is the lesson? ... the people ought to be enlightened, to be awakened, to be united, that after establishing a government, they should watch over it ... It is universally admitted that a well-instructed people alone can be permanently free."

So-called "progressives" understand the "divided" part of Madison's cautionary words, but the rest of us seem to ignore the rest of Madison's statement.

Might it have something to do with our not having been "well-instructed" in the ideas of freedom?

Edmund Burke, in his 1775 "Speech on Conciliation," observed the following "spirit" in the founding generations:

"Permit me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit. I mean their education. In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study. The profession itself is numerous and powerful; and in most provinces it takes the lead. The greater number of the deputies sent to the congress were lawyers. But all who read, and most do read, endeavour to obtain some smattering in that science. I have been told by an eminent bookseller, that in no branch of his business, after tracts of popular devotion, were so many books as those on the law exported to the plantations. The colonists have now fallen into the way of printing them for their own use. I hear that they have sold nearly as many of Blackstone's Commentaries in America as in England. General Gage marks out this disposition very particularly in a letter on your table. He states, that all the people in his government are lawyers, or smatterers in law; and that in Boston they have been enabled, by successful chicane, wholly to evade many parts of one of your capital penal constitutions. The smartness of debate will say, that this knowledge ought to teach them more clearly the rights of legislature, their obligations to obedience, and the penalties of rebellion. All this is mighty well. But my honourable and learned friend on the floor, who condescends to mark what I say for animadversion, will disdain that ground. He has heard, as well as I, that when great honours and great emoluments do not win over this knowledge to the service of the state, it is a formidable adversary to government. If the spirit be not tamed and broken by these happy methods, it is stubborn and litigious. Abeunt studia in mores. This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterous, prompt in attack, ready in defence, full of resources. In other countries, the people, more simple, and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principle in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principle. They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze." (Underlining added for emphasis)

Burke also declared to the Parliament that what he called the colonists' "fierce spirit of liberty" also must be attributed to their "religion," "under a variety of denominations agreeing in nothing but in the communion of the spirit of liberty."

27 posted on 04/05/2012 6:46:44 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: TexasNative2000
"Sans précédent, extraordinaires"

Mais oui, ha, ha!. Eet mott be ay good teeng fahr you to raid sowm istoree, Frainch doods. Uzzairwoz you weel luke stoopeed aygain, non?

28 posted on 04/05/2012 6:46:56 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: TexasNative2000
Although some of my ancestors might not agree the thing for which *I* am *genuinely* grateful to the British is their having driven several of said ancestors out of Europe.

Nobody with all of his/her marbles could possibly *want* to live in today's Europe.

29 posted on 04/05/2012 6:55:29 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Jimmy Carter Is No Longer The Worst President To Have Served In My Lifetime.)
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To: TexasNative2000
Not only that, but the majority will cheer when it is overturned. That will really spin their heads.

Hey Europe, who went bankrupt first?

30 posted on 04/05/2012 6:56:08 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: RetiredArmy
Way, way back in the very early 1970s, I was stationed in Germany in a unit that patrolled the east west German border. I asked my old first sergeant, who was in Korea and Vietnam, how we expected to defend against the Soviets short of nukes. He said, that is the only way we can defend. Without the nukes we are simply immediately dead. He then said that we were basically wasting our time in Germany. He said that eventually Europe would once againt be like it used to be. This guy was very smart. Actually had a law degree and got it while in the Army going through night schools in the states. He told me that the Germans were the real problem. He said really that we were there to keep the Germans from starting WW III. He said it was just in their blood. He also hated the French. He had nothing good to stay about the French. Always spoke of them like dogs. He said eventually we would be fighting another war over there. He is probably long gone fromt his earth by now, but his words still ring in my ears when I see all this Eurowinnie crap.

I've heard of this too, there is a film made in 1945 that backs up what you just said:

Your Job in Germany
31 posted on 04/05/2012 6:58:19 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (General James Mattoon Scott, where are you when we need you? We need a regime change.)
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To: TexasNative2000

Word to Euros - it’s called balance of powers, bitches... but that’s something you people who grew up with kings and queens and dukes and earls and all that rot wouldn’t understand.


32 posted on 04/05/2012 7:02:31 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: TexasNative2000

Of course they are baffled. Although somewhat free, they have never been close to totally free, and they do not at all gather the importance of the individual over the state.


33 posted on 04/05/2012 7:04:01 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: TexasNative2000

The German constitutional court has stepped in to set theorhetical limits on (but not actually stop) Germany’s participation in various European schemes to save the Euro. So they do understand the concept of judicial review. I think it is just that in Europe, the elites are in such lockstep that there is an ingrained certainty that the courts will not flatly stop something important to the ruling elites, whereas in the US there always remains at least some chance.


34 posted on 04/05/2012 7:04:09 PM PDT by Stingray51
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To: cripplecreek
Talk to a European about neo nazis or the klan and their heads explode at the idea that allowing them to exist in the open is a good thing.

They are fine with radical Islamists and communists though.

35 posted on 04/05/2012 7:05:16 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: hinckley buzzard

I agree and disagree with your statement. This article is but a kneejerk reaction by the elite left and in no way represent a collective european perception of what is a uniquely american exercise. Most europeans simply do not understand the principles of checks and balances. Those that pretend to do so cannot reconcile the mechanism with their european stucture of gov’t and it’s cradle to grave welfare state. It’s simply does not compute. A french national once told me that to most in europe, america is where the impossible happens and europe is were the possible never happens. Pretty good observation if you ask me.


36 posted on 04/05/2012 7:06:01 PM PDT by bubman
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To: TexasNative2000
I would be a lot more concerned that there is no similar mechanism in Europe. It explains a good deal about the EU.

"Wasn't the point to make sure the richest and most powerful nation on the planet could protect its own people, as other nations do?" he wrote. "If Americans are promised not just liberty but life and happiness, is there not a constitutional right to affordable healthcare?"

I hope the fellow wasn't paid to write that drivel. It is, of course, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that are the object of governments instituted among men as proposed in the Declaration of Independence, but there is nothing in it, or in that pesky Constitution, that details a "right" to healthcare, and only an ignoramus would reason that there is. There is, however, a good deal about the rule of law. And that is the issue here.

What is really astonishing European commentators is not the fact that the Court might declare certain features of 0bamacare unconstitutional, it's the depth and breadth of the national fury that 0bama is now receiving for suggesting that the Court cannot. 0bama may be a five-star international celebrity, star of stage and screen, but in government he is only the President. And the very concept "only" the President seems to be the real point of confusion. It appears to be confusing 0bama and his throne-kissers most of all.

The real damage done is to the illusion that capturing the Presidency empowers anyone to single-handedly transform the country under any fundamental lines, an illusion that was swept into office with this political and intellectual fraud and now has dissipated like a stinking swamp miasma in a force ten storm. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

It is, of course, entirely possible that 0bamacare will survive the gantlet of judicial review, although it looks like a sucker bet at the moment. There is another review coming in November. That one is provided for in the Declaration as well, in the section that begins "that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends..." Our European cousins might want to review the rest of that particular sentence.

37 posted on 04/05/2012 7:06:52 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: TexasNative2000

They should go back and find a vid of Alistair Cooke’s series America from 40 years ago. The Supreme Court was in his opinion America’s strongest defender of Liberty and what distinguished our effort at creating and defending a democratic republic from all the efforts of Europeans. By their statements,equating life with healthcare it is abundantly clear that Europe still has no concept of life and liberty. Neither do the progressives who inhabit our coasts.


38 posted on 04/05/2012 7:13:07 PM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: TexasNative2000

Europe has enjoyed America’s military protection which allowed them to direct more spending on social programs. That seems to be coming to a halt at least in the most vulnerable nations. Setting aside the unconstitutional aspect of Obamacare, we simply cannot be both the worlds military AND pay “boatloads” of money for “free” medical care.


39 posted on 04/05/2012 7:14:55 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: TexasNative2000

Guess those Europeans have not YET figured out why some of my ancestors LEFT!


40 posted on 04/05/2012 7:18:45 PM PDT by goodnesswins (2012..."We mutually pledge our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor")
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To: ExTexasRedhead
very devastating...should have died in congress.

41 posted on 04/05/2012 7:19:32 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Kill all the terrorists; protect all the borders, ridicule all the (surviving) Liberals :^)
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To: loveliberty2

You’re on a roll today.

Kudos...I always enjoy your posts.

Professor Kingsfield: ‘You come in here with a skull full of mush but you leave thinking like a lawyer.’
—The Paper Chase


42 posted on 04/05/2012 7:21:09 PM PDT by bigoil (Study Thy Nixon)
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To: TexasNative2000

“In the German edition of The Financial Times, Sabine Muscat is astonished at Justice Antonin Scalia’s argument that if the government can mandate insurance, it can also require people to eat broccoli. “Absurder Vergleich” reads the article’s kicker, which in English translates to, “Absurd Comparison.” In trying to defeat the bill, Muscat writes, Scalia is making a “strange analogy [to] vegetables.”

Of course, these parasites don’t understand this. That’s why were Americans and they are what they are - losers.


43 posted on 04/05/2012 7:22:44 PM PDT by ZULU (LIBERATE HAGIA SOPHIA!!!!!)
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To: RetiredArmy
Eurowinnie may well be the best word in 21st Century international political thought.
44 posted on 04/05/2012 7:23:12 PM PDT by righttackle44 (I may not be much, but I raised a United States Marine.)
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To: TexasNative2000
I once had an epiphany waiting in a queue in a post office in Brussels, Belgium watching as my fellow standers-in-line waited patiently and with resigned expressions watching the fat and lazy postal employees behind the counter move about like slugs, smiling and laughing among themselves and then changing expression as, almost unwillingly, they deigned it time to take pity on the rows of their supplicants, one by one and with incredible slowness and condescending looks doing the work for which the taxpayers supplied their bloated salaries.

That is at least as I saw it as an American. And it occurred to me that my vision of what was occurring in that room was entirely different from that of the Belgians. They expected to be treated like s*** by people who to me were by definition public servants. They, these citizens were not citizens at all were subjects and no different except in the quality and fashion of their clothing than their serf ancestors, the bottom rung of the natural political order. God (although He is largely forgotten and irrelevant), the King (now the Prime Minister), the Nobles (the iron rice bowl bureaucrats), the lick spittles, lackeys, and henchmen of the Nobles (in this case these public union teat sucking postal workers), and then the Peasants (everybody else). That is their pyramid of power and authority and is at a fundamental level how their minds operate.

And I realized that for me, with the exception of God who to most of us relevant at least in Name, the pyramid stands on its pinnacle with the wide base, the People, at the top just beneath and with no one in between ourselves and the Deity. That is the American exception and is more truly revolutionary than any idea that has come along probably since the invention of fire.

45 posted on 04/05/2012 7:23:18 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: TexasNative2000

Europe has a difficult time understanding the concept of limited government. It can understand that governments should not be able to violate people’s rights, but it can’t fathom any other limitations.


46 posted on 04/05/2012 7:29:41 PM PDT by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: TexasNative2000
an affront to liberty

What the hell would the Eurotrash dirtbags know about liberty?

47 posted on 04/05/2012 7:32:51 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER ( Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: bubman

I liked you response better than any of the others. I agree that the article infers that all Europeans like the idea of Pbamacare, and they think we are nuts to not like it.

Now, I am surprised tha so many posters here automatically decided to accept the premise as true. The liberal media in Europe is as bad as ours or perhaps even worse in their leftist tilt.

Since so many Europeans continue to come to the USA. it stands top reason they are not so enamored of all the socialism over there. In May 2010 I was in Bavaria (southern Germany), and spoke to a businessman in a small town. He ran a small business of collection of refuse (not exactly sure what it was, but he had several employees who drove trucks.). This man was really down on all the social programs which caused high taxation and little incentive for workers to be good employees.

So, I would not take this article as being representative of a lot of Europeans.


48 posted on 04/05/2012 7:41:02 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: TexasNative2000

sfl


49 posted on 04/05/2012 7:49:16 PM PDT by know-the-law
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To: Doogle
Ah, yes, the poster boy for why separation of powers are needed . . . and the Euroweenies still don't get it.
50 posted on 04/05/2012 7:51:15 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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