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Britain's Royal Air Force considering purchase of Israeli unmanned aerial vehicle
Haaretz, Israel ^ | 05.04.12 | Anshel Pfeffer

Posted on 04/05/2012 8:34:17 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Britain's Royal Air Force considering purchase of Israeli unmanned aerial vehicle

U.K. looking at the Eitan system, also known as the Heron TP - the largest and most sophisticated drone Israel makes.

LONDON - Britain's Royal Air Force has been considering the purchase of unmanned aerial vehicles from Israel.

The Eitan, also known as the Heron TP, is the largest and most sophisticated drone Israel makes. It is assembled by Israel Aerospace Industries and began operational service in the Israel Air Force two years ago, in a new squadron at the Tel Nof airbase.

The Eitan's wingspan is as wide as a Boeing 737 airliner and it can stay in the air for up to forty hours, carrying out long-range missions at 40 thousand feet, hundreds of kilometers away from base, broadcasting back real-time footage of wide areas. According to foreign sources, the Eitan also carries out missions over Iran.

Israeli and British security sources have confirmed in recent days that the Royal Air Force has been considering buying a number of Eitan systems, since the Mantis, a joint British-French unmanned strategic project, has been delayed and will not be operational before 2020.

No official request has yet been made by the British Ministry of Defense and for now, the RAF is only making initial examinations and is also considering American UAVs and continuing its manned surveillance flights while waiting for the Mantis.

A purchase of an Israeli military system will surely cause protests by pro-Palestinian organizations. Today, Israel buys very little military products from Britain due to export limits placed in the past by the British foreign ministry.

If the RAF selects the Eitan, it will be the second Israeli UAV bought by the British,

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: aerospace; israel; uav; uk

1 posted on 04/05/2012 8:34:21 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

UK sold a lot of Eurofighter typhoons with Storm Shadows cruise missiles to Saudi Arabia. I dont think Israel should sell them squat.


2 posted on 04/06/2012 8:11:32 AM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager

You do realise that the US sells more arms to the Saudis than Britain or anyone else don’t you?


3 posted on 04/06/2012 9:05:03 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

US also gives $4 million dollars in aid to Israel. How much does the UK give to Israel?


4 posted on 04/06/2012 10:31:14 AM PDT by ravager
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Correction: $4 BILLION dollars each year


5 posted on 04/06/2012 10:35:42 AM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager

I don’t know and I don’t care. This is about business, not aid or charity. Israeli Aerospace Industries Ltd is going to be paid by the British MOD for their product, and the Israeli defence industry needs foreign customers to pay for their stuff in order to continue to be able to fund their future development world-leading military hardware.
If the Israeli’s wanted to get all butthurt about Britain selling stuff to the Saudis and not paying them off like the Americans do, they could refuse to sell to us, but Britain is more than capable of producing an equivalent piece of equipment itself (and is doing, with the Taranis project) and buying a stopgap from somewhere else in the meantime. Israel has more to gain from this deal than Britain does, ultimately...


6 posted on 04/06/2012 11:05:59 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: ravager

I don’t know and I don’t care. This is about business, not aid or charity. Israeli Aerospace Industries Ltd is going to be paid by the British MOD for their product, and the Israeli defence industry needs foreign customers to pay for their stuff in order to continue to be able to fund their future development world-leading military hardware.
If the Israeli’s wanted to get all butthurt about Britain selling stuff to the Saudis and not paying them off like the Americans do, they could refuse to sell to us, but Britain is more than capable of producing an equivalent piece of equipment itself (and is doing, with the Taranis project) and buying a stopgap from somewhere else in the meantime. Israel has more to gain from this deal than Britain does, ultimately...


7 posted on 04/06/2012 11:06:22 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Well good for Britain (if only Britian could actually afford to buy what they make). I still dont think Israel should sell even paperclips to UK. And UK is too much of a anti semitic country.
8 posted on 04/06/2012 11:28:49 AM PDT by ravager
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

This is from the article :

“Today, Israel buys very little military products from Britain due to export limits placed in the past by the British foreign ministry. “

I think time for Israel to place some “export limits”. I dont think Israel will miss the puny British arms market all that much.


9 posted on 04/06/2012 11:34:50 AM PDT by ravager
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

“I don’t know and I don’t care.”

You brought up the point about US selling to Saudi. You should know and you should care.


10 posted on 04/06/2012 11:40:48 AM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager
You were the one who brought up the point about Britain selling stuff to the Saudis like it mattered when the US has been doing the exact same thing on a much larger scale.

This isn't a contest about who is the biggest Israelophile, Britain wants to buy something from Israel, and Israel wants to sell. They can sell to us, or they can cut their noses off to spite their face and not sell it to us.

It would actually be in Israel's interests to engage us in more trade like this, because at the moment, Britain has more trade interests with the likes of Saudi Arabia than with Israel, which is why it is often reluctant to take a pro-Israeli line.

Israel should be hawking its military hardware and other products to as many other nations as possible and making itself indispensable in order to give these nations a vested interest in supporting Israel politically.

Right now, the reason why most countries in the world indulge the Arabs in their constant butthurt over Israel and Palestine is because they have most of the oil their economies depended on and they aren't above using that fact to wield political and diplomatic influence(aremember the oil crisis in 1973, when OAPEC threw their teddies out of the pram over western support of Israel during the Yom Kippur War?)

Israel is the last country in the world that has the luxury of being able to alienate other countries out of spite. The oil-rich Arab nations and Iran have that luxury to a large extent, which is one of the why the latter has been flipping the bird to the west for so long and getting away with it. Israel's unfavourable strategic position means that needs to make friends and influence people, not piss them off.

11 posted on 04/06/2012 1:19:09 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: ravager
You were the one who brought up the point about Britain selling stuff to the Saudis like it mattered when the US has been doing the exact same thing on a much larger scale.

This isn't a contest about who is the biggest Israelophile, Britain wants to buy something from Israel, and Israel wants to sell. They can sell to us, or they can cut their noses off to spite their face and not sell it to us.

It would actually be in Israel's interests to engage us in more trade like this, because at the moment, Britain has more trade interests with the likes of Saudi Arabia than with Israel, which is why it is often reluctant to take a pro-Israeli line.

Israel should be hawking its military hardware and other products to as many other nations as possible and making itself indispensable in order to give these nations a vested interest in supporting Israel politically.

Right now, the reason why most countries in the world indulge the Arabs in their constant butthurt over Israel and Palestine is because they have most of the oil their economies depended on and they aren't above using that fact to wield political and diplomatic influence(aremember the oil crisis in 1973, when OAPEC threw their teddies out of the pram over western support of Israel during the Yom Kippur War?)

Israel is the last country in the world that has the luxury of being able to alienate other countries out of spite. The oil-rich Arab nations and Iran have that luxury to a large extent, which is one of the why the latter has been flipping the bird to the west for so long and getting away with it. Israel's unfavourable strategic position means that she needs to make friends and influence people, not piss them off.

12 posted on 04/06/2012 1:19:31 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Yeah I brought it up, but you responded by trying to pin it on US. If you don't care then don't talk.

And if you do..... then explain to me why UK is ok putting “export limits” on Israel buying arms .....but Israel shouldn't deny sale to UK?

Britain is half the reason why anti-semitism has gained so much popularity in the western world. Britain has actively been encouraging anti-semitism and Muslim radicalism for decades. You are saying a little trade will fix all of that now that Britain needs UAVs?

And Israel shouldn't alienate UK? You think Israel will cease to exist if they don't make this sale? And what friends/allies does UK have in the world? South America? Arab/Muslim world?

Yes Israel should be hawking their military hardwares to as many nations .....but not to enemies.

13 posted on 04/06/2012 2:18:12 PM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager

I only made the point because of your hypocrisy in criticizing Britain for selling weapons hardware to the Saudis when the US was and is doing more of the exact same thing, and when I pointed this out you are trying to justify your hypocrisy by boasting about how much your government is donating to Israel at the American taxpayer’s expense, as if I should care. Even if the US wasn’t selling to the Saudis and the British were, it doesn’t even matter,
because Israel has more to gain from selling its stuff to other nations, (including Britain) than it does by not doing.
At the end of the day, Britain isn’t a tiny country on a small strip of coastal land surrounded on all sides by hostile nations eager to see its destruction. Britain’s geographical location is pretty good compared to Israel’s. The worst we get from our immediate neighbours is that they sometimes say mean things about our cooking prowess and drinking habits when we irritate them at football matches and EU summits. In Israel, their neighbours invoke chilling blood libels and pray to their moon god for the wholesale genocide of their citizens.
Israel would benefit more from Britain’s goodwill and friendship than Britain would from Israel’s. If Israel adopted your pointless policy of boycotting Britain, it would be petty and self-defeating. Israel needs to fight against diplomatic isolation, not increase it further.
Israel would actually benefit and gain influence over Britain by providing it with some of its military hardware. Right now, influence over Britain rests predominantly with the Arabs today because our trading links with the Arabs are more significant than they are with the Israelis.
You don’t seem quite able to grasp the fact that Israel’s strategic position means that they need to be doing everything they can mitigate the strategic influence the Arab world has with Britain and other nations, because the way things are at the moment, Britain has more vested interests in supporting the Arabs politically than they do the Israelis.
Right now, it serves Britain’s interests to make the gesture of implementing half-arsed embargos on exports to Israel whenever the Arabs get butthurt with Israel over something. If Israel was responsible for supplying Britain with important military hardware, Britain might not be so quick to jump on the pro-arab bandwagon whenever things kick off in the Gaza Strip. In actual fact, a school of thought might suggest that it isn’t in Britain’s interests to create such a conflict of interest by buying this Israeli hardware. If it wasn’t for the fact that my sympathies tend to be pro-Israel and utterly contemptuous of most Arab nations (particularly Saudi Arabia) I would not be happy at all about the prospect of Britain buying Israeli military gear and building up a trade relationship of this nature with them...


14 posted on 04/06/2012 3:18:17 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: ravager

Britain is not an antisemitic country.

Where do people like you come up with crap like that?. I have read JDL reports that show UK anti-semitic incidents falling as American rates rise. So is your country anti-semitic?.


15 posted on 04/06/2012 4:39:24 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: ravager

Puny?.

The UK arms market is worth $1054 million. And we are the fifth biggest arms exporter.


16 posted on 04/06/2012 4:42:21 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: ravager

None.

It deals with Israel as an ally, and sells £xbillion of arms to Israel every year. It DID give aid to Israel until 1999.


17 posted on 04/06/2012 4:46:19 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: the scotsman

Do you realize the word “market” applies to you only if you are “buying”....i.e “importing” not “exporting”? Where does UK rank in terms of arms import?


18 posted on 04/06/2012 5:09:41 PM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager
Why so? Saudi Arabia is not threatening Israel.

Britain traditionally has sold a lot of military equipment to the less volatile nations of the Middle East, particularly Jordan and Saudi Arabia. You sell them equipment, you have a certain amount of control over them.

Anyway, the US sells military equipment to Saudi.

19 posted on 04/07/2012 2:47:47 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: the scotsman
Don't waste your time with facts or logic.

There are people on FR who are so obsessively and supinely pro-Israeli that any position other than absolute and total unconditional support for Israel and everything they do is perceived and written up as "antisemitic" (and possibly even treasonous). It's the same kind of mentality that sees any objection to Gay Pride week as "homophobia", all criticism of Barack Obama as "racism", and any negative opinion of muslim practices as "Islamaphobia".

I've gotten into arguments over British-Israeli relations with such folk before. It's a waste of time and energy. Britain was stuck with the thankless task of juggling the rival ambitions of Jew and Arab in the Palestine Mandate, and inevitably not every decision went the Isrelis way. To the extreme pro-Israel wing that makes us an enemy. Every decision the British Foreign Office has made since that does not accord with total support for Israel further bolsters that opinion. Selling a weapon system to Saudi Arabia is purely a business transaction, but there is absolutely nothing you can say that will convince them of that. Two centuries from now (assuming the Human race is still going) their spiritual (and probably actual) descendents will be trotting out the same grievances, possibly attached to Biblical injunctions about the terrible consequences of "opposing God's chosen people, the apple of His eye." The fact that there is a divine rider upon the status of Jews as "God's chosen people" will be conveniently never stated, of course.

I humbly suggest it would be a more profitable use of your time to redirect your energies to other threads re Britain and the UK, and let this one go.

20 posted on 04/07/2012 3:27:53 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan; the scotsman; Vanders9
And as I said....if you don't care then just STFU. We will talk about US hypocrisy the day UK gives out $4 billion in aid to Israel. Until then, try not to draw moral equivalence with US. Lets just stick to what the UK does.

So basically what you are saying is Israel should just swallow their pride, bend over and pick up whatever crumbs UK is throwing at them in the name of “trade” with the faint hope that it may help Britain turn away from vicious anti-semitism.

And why? Because Britain, in your opinion, is too important to ignore. I don't know if you realize this but Britain’s exaggerated sense of self importance makes it a laughing stock to the rest of the world. If you have forgotten, Nicolas Sarkozy recently described UK as a “country with no industry”. An he wasn't just taking a cheap shot. Britain is barely able to keep its economy, industry, military and navy afloat.

An even otherwise, I dont see any reason why Israel needs to suck up to a country that is already kinda hostile. That kind of appeasement and kowtowing is always naive and counter productive. UK is deeply entrenched in the Muslim world with a huge immigrant Muslim population and with their oil/arms trade with Saudi Arabia an other Muslim countries for this UCAV deal to to have any impact. Britain will always have vested interests in Arab middle east which will always weigh in more then whatever Israel has to offer.

And then, there is still that arms embargo against Israel. (On a side note..... UK goes out of its way to violate MTRC statutes to sell long range Storm Shadow missile to Saudi Arabia.) All said and done, if UK's oil supply were to stop or UK's muslims were pissed again.... UK’s “butthurt” would be a lot more then not receiving a few military UCAVs.

21 posted on 04/09/2012 9:56:21 AM PDT by ravager
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To: the scotsman

“It deals with Israel as an ally, and sells £xbillion of arms to Israel every year.”

Yeah ally. And then there is that minor niggle about arms embargo”.


22 posted on 04/09/2012 9:59:09 AM PDT by ravager
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To: the scotsman

” And we are the fifth biggest arms exporter. “

And the only reason for that is Saudi Arabia.


23 posted on 04/09/2012 10:47:26 AM PDT by ravager
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To: Vanders9
If you think Saudi Arabia is not athreat to Israel then you are either naive or deliberately blind.

“Britain traditionally has sold a lot of military equipment to the less volatile nations “

Lets see what “less volatile nations” would that be..... Britain sold £16.4m worth of arms to Egypt in 2009. In 2009, over £27 million military and dual-use materials were sold to Libya, same in Algeria and Democratic Republic of Congo. UK supplied weapons to the Indonesian government even during the bloody campaign in Ache province and in the past supplied weapons to Saddam Hussein. All of them "less volatile" right?

24 posted on 04/09/2012 11:00:53 AM PDT by ravager
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To: Vanders9
“There are people on FR who are so obsessively and supinely pro-Israeli that any position other than absolute and total unconditional support for Israel and everything they do is perceived and written up as “antisemitic” (and possibly even treasonous). “

Ok, so please tell us..... what in your opinion should be the right amount “pro-Israel” attitude to have?

” Britain was stuck with the thankless task of juggling the rival ambitions of Jew and Arab in the Palestine Mandate, and inevitably not every decision went the Israelis way.”

Yes Britain always found itself burdened with thankless job of juggling the rival ambitions of Jew and Arab, Indians and Pakistanis. And of course Britain never had any of their own machination in how they played their political cards in all of this, right?

25 posted on 04/09/2012 11:15:18 AM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager

I don’t care about the US giving aid to Israel, other than that I am glad that it isn’t my taxmoney being robbed in the name of charity. You criticised Britain for selling advanced weapons systems to Saudi Arabia, America does the exact same thing. What America gives to Israel in aid is irrelevant, it doesn’t change the fact that they are selling more high-res gear to the Saudis than we are. Do you think that Britain is somehow honour-bound to pay tribute to the Israelis to soothe their butthurt over arms sales to Arab nations?

Israel doesn’t desperately need Britain on its side, but given Israel’s precarious lack of friends and unenviable strategic weakness, its own interests are best served in trying to make friends, not engaging in petty spite.

Now, try and imagine, if you can, you are a grown-up for a second. What has Israel got to gain? Israel’s defence sector would receive a boost by selling this weapons system to the UK that would help fuel the Israeli economy, contribute towards allowing the defence sector to expand in size and capability, and form trade and military links that will gain the Israelis a measure of political influence in Whitehall.
Of course, Britain could just maintain all its important trading links with the Arabs, but if that is the case, it isn’t suprising if Britain will tend to support the Arab world if it is almost completely in their interests to do so. This is what countries do. They look after their own interests. Israel, if it has grown-ups in charge of sound mind and with an IQ in treble digits, will understand what I am saying and will be keen to promote trade, military and political links with other countries in order to dilute Arab influence over them.

Your argument against selling this UCAV to Britain is based on emotionalism and irrationality, mine in favour is based on logic and reason.


26 posted on 04/09/2012 11:15:54 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
“I don’t care about the US giving aid to Israel, other than that I am glad that it isn’t my taxmoney being robbed in the name of charity.

You are glad? Your own British tax money has long been robbed in more ways then whatever Israel could have taken out of American taxmoney. You should know that.

“America does the exact same thing. What America gives to Israel in aid is irrelevant, it doesn’t change the fact that they are selling more high-res gear to the Saudis than we are.”

America does a lot more to keep Israeli military edge way above any county in the middle east. Tell me what UK does for Israel? The correct answer is ....nothing.

“Do you think that Britain is somehow honour-bound to pay tribute to the Israelis to soothe their butthurt over arms sales to Arab nations?”

Exactly! Britain is a Muslim tool. So why would you care? You would rather bend over backwards to stick another embargo to soothe the Arabs butthurt over Israel. (Remember Gaza war when UK slapped embargo on Hermes drone engines supply?) Yeah!

“Israel doesn’t desperately need Britain on its side, but iven Israel’s precarious lack of friends “

Barring the Muslim countries, Israel actually has plenty of friends.

“Your argument against selling this UCAV to Britain is based on emotionalism and irrationality, mine in favour is based on logic and reason.”

My argument is very much based on logic and reason. Just because you haven't been able to figure it out doesn't mean there isn't any. Its is a bad idea to sell weapons to a hostile country. Its is not emotionalism or irrationality, (and I am not against trade in general) but it is plain short sighted and criminally stupid to sell weapons (of all things) to a hostile country. Israel should have learned her lesson with respect to Turkey by now. Its a tad too late to suspend military sales to Turkey now. Regardless of your lame logic, appeasing enemies with weapons has always proved to be a bad idea and has always been more costly in the long run. And Britain doest even have a huge weapon import market for Israel to lose much. At least nothing they cannot recover by selling to other friendly countries elsewhere.

27 posted on 04/09/2012 12:19:19 PM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager
You are glad? Your own British tax money has long been robbed in more ways then whatever Israel could have taken out of American taxmoney. You should know that.

Yes I know, but in this instance, at least I can be glad that this is not one of those instances. America does a lot more to keep Israeli military edge way above any county in the middle east. Tell me what UK does for Israel? The correct answer is ....nothing.

Again, you seem to be missing the point here. You are the one who believes Israel is entitled to foreign charity, I do not. Exactly! Britain is a Muslim tool. So why would you care? You would rather bend over backwards to stick another embargo to soothe the Arabs butthurt over Israel. (Remember Gaza war when UK slapped embargo on Hermes drone engines supply?) Yeah!

So instead of a Arab tool, Britain should be an Israeli tool? Britain should be following its own interests, same as any other nation. Barring the Muslim countries, Israel actually has plenty of friends.

What, the US? If it wasn't for America's unqualified support, Israel would have been invaded and annihilated long ago, this much is obvious. Relying almost entirely on one country to stop your country falling into the precipice is a very bad strategic place to be. Quite apart from the fact that that country's attitude towards you could change drastically over the course of a single election, relying so heavily on one country means that that country has you completely by the balls, which it can squeeze to get them to fall into line with international policies that might not otherwise be in Israel's interests. Israel's interests would be better served by trying to diversify its level of international support. It particularly needs to court the nations of Europe, including Britain, which are unfortunately heavily influenced by Arab interests. The European nations have, despite what the pro-palestinians would like put across, much in common with Israel, which is an oasis of European-style pluralistic parliamentary democracy literally amidst a sandy desert of tinpont military dictators, fundamentalist theocracies and autocratic monarchies. Israel needs to be reaching out to these countries in order to solidify and diversify its international support. This potential arms deal is an opportunity for Israel to build vital links with one of the three most powerful European countries, along with France and Germany. Despite your personal opinion of Britain, it is still a diplomatically well-connected, politically, economically and militarily significant nation and in the absence of an overwhelming strategic conflict of interest, it makes more sense to be a friend of Britain than an enemy. Britain is not an enemy of Israel, despite what you think. I wouldn't exactly describe Anglo-Israeli relations as warm, but to classify the two nations as 'enemies' is hyperbole. Israel is not undermining its own strategic interests by selling this UCAV to Britain, it is only enhancing them, providing the deal goes ahead.

28 posted on 04/09/2012 1:48:25 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: ravager
Ok, so please tell us..... what in your opinion should be the right amount “pro-Israel” attitude to have?

Exactly the same attitude as we have with any other democratic nation whose immediate interests do not directly coincide with our own, in other words, we give them the benefit of the doubt against the corrupt and the dictatorial. I support Israel, because I think their claims to statehood have far more legal validity than the vague claims the Arabs have to destroy them. But at the same time, if they do something I think is wrong, I'm going to call them on it. I don't care if people think that is "antisemitic". That phrase is not some magic wand that makes them immune to all criticism. And, at the same time, if Britain chooses to sell weapon systems to a third party, thats our business. If Israel doesn't like it, they can raise an objection. Similarly, we would like to buy an Israeli weapon system - for hard cash. If they don't want to sell it, or we can't agree on terms, then they don't have to do it. We will go elsewhere.

Yes Britain always found itself burdened with thankless job of juggling the rival ambitions of Jew and Arab, Indians and Pakistanis. And of course Britain never had any of their own machination in how they played their political cards in all of this, right?

On the contrary! Britain had plenty of their own machinations in all this! Absolutely! Damn right we did! Guilty as charged 100%! I elect my representatives to primarily look after MY interests, not the interests of Jews and Arabs, Indians and Pakistanis - or Americans for that matter. I'm not saying ethics and morality and fair play and right and wrong don't come into the decision making process - I'm sure they do - but primarily the British government is (and should be) looking out for Britain. That is, after all, what they are elected to do. Their effectiveness in doing that is certainly how they are going to be judged come next election.

29 posted on 04/09/2012 1:51:02 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
“Yes I know, but in this instance, at least I can be glad that this is not one of those instances.”

Actually I am glad this IS one of those instances. I would any day have my tax money go to a country that is fighting an existential battle against Islam then have it go to a lazy ass Muzzy who wants to bring Shariyat into Londonistan or elsewhere. But hey, suit yourself!

You are the one who believes Israel is entitled to foreign charity, I do not.

Nope. I didn't say they are entitled to foreign aid. Since you are pointing finger at US, I am just telling you what US is doing for them. Clearly you don't have a response to that.

So instead of a Arab tool, Britain should be an Israeli tool? Britain should be following its own interests, same as any other nation.

By that, I believe you mean ....suck up to the Muslims.

If it wasn't for America's unqualified support, Israel would have been invaded and annihilated long ago, this much is obvious.”

You obviously don't know the obvious. Israel is still the only country with nukes, in the middle east. Long before Israel is annihilated, the middle east would get nuked.

As for friends....according to a study carried out by Israel's foreign ministry, the most pro-Israel countries in the world are India, US, Russia, Mexico and China...in that order. (The biggest and most powerful countries in the world). And guess who comes at the bottom of the list? Britain, France and Spain...the trash heap of failing Europe.

And you are saying Israel should court Europe, especially Britain? Europe, especially Britain, will turn into Arabia very soon. Why should Israel waste time?

Despite your personal opinion of Britain, it is still a diplomatically well-connected, politically, economically and militarily significant nation

You make me laugh everytime you blow hot air about Britain’s importance to the world. You need to stop.

30 posted on 04/09/2012 2:47:38 PM PDT by ravager
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
I find it kinda funny how you seem to imply that Israel has no friends in the world and so regardless of Britain’s hostile attitude, Israel they must suck up to Britain because apparently they have no choice. (And Britian is such an important country! /s)

I don't think you can be more out of touch with reality. You are basically implying the only friends one can have are Muslim friends and if you don't have them then you have no friends. (And obviously UK has plenty of Muslim friends).

31 posted on 04/09/2012 3:12:22 PM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager

European nations are Israel’s closest neighbours outside of the Middle East. I agree that there is a lot of anti-Israeli sentiment in Europe, but Israel should be doing its part to reach out to Europe. It needs to court European nations as allies and counter Arab and Muslim influence. How is it supposed to do that by adopting your kind of hostile, petulant attitude?

I have to say, I have strong reason to disagree with Mexico being amongst the ‘worlds most powerful countries’. It is a lawless narco-republic, Americans should know this better than anyone.
I also have to laugh at Russia being pro-Israeli when they are the staunchest supporters and defenders of Syria and Iran, the very two muslim countries that are the most implacably hostile to Israel and the ones that actively support and sponsor terrorist attacks against Israel.
As for China, I’m aware they are on pretty good terms with Israel, because the latter has sold China a lot of high-tech defence equipment to them over the years, despite a lot of Americans on this very forum raging against Israel’s ‘betrayal’ (when in fact they were only looking out for their own interests, which is natural).

However, what I don’t really understand is what your agenda is here. What is it that you want? Do you want Israel to have poor relations with Britain and the rest of Europe? Notwithstanding the current economic crisis, the European nations are still powerful potential allies diplomatically, politically, militarily and economically, and they are right in Israel’s back yard. It makes more sense for Israel to try and build bridges and gain influence in Europe. Your idea of great Israeli policy is to spite Britain and the rest of Europe and drive them further into the hands of the Arabists. I just wonder what it is exactly that you hope to achieve by Israel boycotting Britain, other than gain some spiteful revenge for British embargos on weapons sales during times of rising tensions. All that would achieve is to strengthen the hands of the Arabists. Does it not enter your head that by being responsible for supplying important aspect of Britain’s military assets, Israel would have an ace up its sleeve to counter the influence of Arabists who put pressure on Whitehall to place these embargos on Israel in the first place?


32 posted on 04/09/2012 4:07:48 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

See #20.


33 posted on 04/09/2012 10:49:44 PM PDT by Vanders9
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