Posted on 04/08/2012 7:21:12 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Give Cosby credit for not being playing the race card, but he's still not thinking this through completely. If an investigation proves Zimmerman's side of the story, "the gun" will end up being what might have saved his life.
We have a God-given right to patrol our own neighborhoods, which can be dangerous work. And if in the act of doing so we are attacked, "the gun" can come in awfully handy.
Let's also not forget that Zimmerman claims he wasn't following Trayvon Martin when the teenager attacked him.
Washington Times:
"The gun.”
Those two simple words flowed easily from the mouth of social commentator Bill Cosby during an exclusive interview Friday regarding the Trayvon Martin case, arguably the most high-profile, citizen-on-citizen U.S. slaying facing the Obama administration.
Trayvon was killed Feb. 26 in Sanford, Fla., by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, who told police that a “confrontation” with the unarmed 17-year-old led him to shoot in self-defense.
Mr. Cosby, a Navy veteran, said “the gun” empowered Mr. Zimmerman, whose actions have stirred a firestorm of debate, protests and remarks from President Obama....
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
OK, as long as you get rid of your armed bodyguards, Bill.
Does he have armed bodyguards?
I was speaking only of my own personal experience doing NW for 20+ years, not the merits of the Zimmerman/Martin action or conditions in that neighborhood. It seems for a NW person to be armed as they are patrolling, they would have to be deputized. Being armed as a private citizen representing only yourself is another story. But being armed and tracking suspicious persons, to my knowledge, is now what Neighborhood Watch is about. It certainly isn’t in VA (from whence Zimmerman hails).
I have no idea how they do it in FL, but if you recall the transcript with the dispatcher, Zimmerman was told ‘you don’t have to be doing that’ in tracking the kid. If every NW patrol was armed, I would imagine they’d have to be trained, deputized, the whole ball of wax. Would they be given power to arrest? It would be a dramatic restructuring of Neighborhood Watch, that’s for sure.
If Bill Cosby had his way, Trayvon would have beaten Zimmerman to death.
There was rampant crime even in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.
The police saying “you don’t have to be doing that” is not the same thing as “you should not be doing that”. He does not require permission from the police to watch someone. Again you do not give up your 2nd amendment rights when you do neighborhood watch.
Individual citizens, or individual citizens working together in a neighborhood watch, all have the right to carry. Period.
Cosby is another fool who is assuming. And as Felix Unger would say, “When we ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME”
Do remember - Mr Cosby’s only son was murdered by thugs with guns when he stopped along the Interstate to fix a flat tire. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/entertainer-bill-cosbys-son-murdered-along-ca-interstate
Such an experience could result in reactions of either extreme violence or aversion to guns.
Neighborhood watches involve night time patrols, and evenings are when criminals come out to play. In addition, neighborhood watch people are looking for trouble, though in the sense of finding and reporting criminals rather than arresting them. If they run into criminals on the job, and the perps are armed or numerous, their lives could be in jeopardy. It would not make sense to have a neighborhood watch without weapons. I've read about neighborhood watches in Third World countries where gun control is pretty strict. They carry fighting sticks or batons in case of attack. The irony is that any neighborhood watch where weapons aren't needed is probably a superfluous neighborhood watch.
People who are against neighborhood watch people carrying guns are a little naive. Criminals who might hesitate to attack cops have no compunction about attacking civilians. Mayberry* was 50 years ago.
* If San Diego PD's stats are to be believed, per capita violent crime was much lower 50 years ago; better emergency medical care has turned many shooting and stabbing incidents that would have become murder cases back in the 1950's into aggravated assault cases today. In 2006, per capita robberies were 6x what they were in 1950. Per capita aggravated assaults (shootings, stabbings) were 15x.
According to George Zimmerman's father, George was not on duty the night of the shooting. He was leaving the complex on his way to the store when he saw Martin. It doesn't matter what the Neighborhood watch rules are, he had the right to carry while on his own business. It is unfortunate that his personal business was interrupted by a neighborhood problem.
Houston has strict no-weapons policy for its neighborhood citizen patrols. (It has actually three programs, but the patrol program is the relevant one.)
This policy had unfortunate consequences for a Citizens on Patrol (then called C.O.P.) in a black neighborhood in north Houston called Lexington Green, 20 years ago. The patroller saw a suspicious car, suspected that the house nearby had been entered, and started writing down the license plate. He never finished -- the armed "burglar" inside came out and blew him away. Another black-on-black crime statistic, for a guy who followed the rules.
Houston then instituted a new rule, which was that a patroller was never to leave his vehicle. Which conflicted with state "good Samaritan" laws and laws against "failure to render assistance". But the policy remains in force today. Even for cyclists who join the program. Some people patrol on foot (the gay community in Houston were doing that, looking for gay-bashing cruisers like the ones who murdered Paul Broussard near a Montrose gay bar in a case notorious from 20 years ago), which creates another cognitive dissonance within the program.
In Dallas, a very bad area that had numerous armed dealers and dopers staggering around started their own group within the Citizens on Patrol umbrella program 15 years ago. They were all older black men in their 40's and 50's who patrolled in groups of five or six on foot, every one of them carrying a shotgun. They weren't playing. They didn't lose anyone that I ever heard of.
The neigborhood watch in my community forbids carrying weapons. They give you a cell phone, a spot light and a list of phone numbers to report suspicious activity. At no time do you approach anyone. That’s left up to the authorities.
Mr. Zimmerman wasn’t on neighborhood watch the night of Trayvon Martin’s shooting, he was on his way to the store. Florida allows open and concealed carry, IIRC.
Damn! If only there was a law against murder, his son would be alive today. In spite of his personal experience, he still thinks you can stop evil by making it against the law.
This, I think perfectly illustrates the difference between left and right. They think they can change human nature, and we know you can’t.
“but Mr. Cosby, where would your son be today if he’d HAD a gun?” He would probably be alive today. His son was shot in the head by some nut job named Mikhail Markhasev, a Ukrainian immigrant. You just never know! Loaded open carry in Colorado is just fine with me and LEOs. Both open carry and unlicensed open car carry in Denver are prohibited.
Yeah, how about the lefties start a big campaign to disarm all celebrity bodyguards.
I’m sure that would go over well.
His son’s death is the reason that cos is insane... and he is insane.
LLS
I blame Skittles and to a lesser extend Arizona Tea.
Most people don't know: it's a Federal government program.
Then I want nothing to do with it. I don't leave my home unless I'm armed.
Neighborhood Watch is apparently just another way the Federal government is attempting to disarm the people, right down to the neighborhood level.
You do know it's a Federal program, right?
Yes, the gun empowered Zimmerman to not be afraid in his own neighborhood. That is what the gun does, helps protect against thugs, both private and public. Neighborhood watch people without guns are just placating the nanny-staters and gun grabbing cops, who can only clean up AFTER a crime is committed.
That is exactly what they want done. Armed men scare the perpetually aggrieved class. It tends to negate their wanton violence.
Everyone is a neighborhood watch captain. It’s your sanctuary, defend it.
Can anyone cite one instance in the last 50 years where a innocent person has been accidentally shot by someone on night watch other than “innocent” Trayvon Martin.The perceived threat is a figment of Cosby’s imagination. His idea makes as much sense as banning walking outside because a space satellite might fall on one’s head.Can you spell overblown hysteria?
That is exactly what they want done. Armed men scare the perpetually aggrieved class. It tends to negate their wanton violence.
Everyone is a neighborhood watch captain. It’s your sanctuary, defend it.
How old is Bill now?
So disarm Neighborhood Watch. In that case Mr. Zimmerman would be dead which of course is the preferred outcome for the predators.
See, if Zimmerman didn’t have the gun, HE would be dead, and Obama’s thug son would be alive.
I tend to think that when you’re talking high crime areas, police patrols should be stepped up and not left to (generally) untrained civilians, i.e., anyone who signs up and is willing to give a night of his/her time here and there. But in reality, police cannot be everywhere, and they cannot even respond quickly enough for some urgent situations.
A vehicle beyond Neighborhood Watch is needed for high-crime areas, perhaps something along the lines of the Guardian Angels. In those areas where you need armed patrols, they’d have to be identifiable, well-trained, kevlon-vested, and deputized backup to the police.
He has done that in the past and has been dragged over the coals by the black 'leaders' and the black community.
You wrote:
A vehicle beyond Neighborhood Watch is needed for high-crime areas, perhaps something along the lines of the Guardian Angels. In those areas where you need armed patrols, they’d have to be identifiable, well-trained, kevlon-vested, and deputized backup to the police.
You are taking a God’s eye, 50,000 foot altitude view of the situation. Guys like Zimmerman (or you and me, for that matter) can’t affect how the mayor chooses to deploy the police. The mere existence of neighborhood watch groups is the result of the failure of the criminal justice system to find, arrest and incarcerate the perps who are wreaking havoc on their fellow citizens. There’s plenty of blame to go around, ranging from Miranda in 1966, to all kinds of other constraints on police conduct, including tort liability. The bottom line is that an ordinary joe like Zimmerman has to deal with the world as it is rather than the way he would like it to be. And that means being armed while conducting neighborhood watch patrols in his high-crime condo complex (6 burglaries and 1 home invasion in the past month, based on a skim of the Sanford PD web link on the Martin case), or not patrolling at all.
Like turning your back on a suspect.
"Well, tell Bill I said: Have a Coke and a smile and shut the f* up. The Jell-O pudding-eating m*f*er."
He absolutely is - I LOVE pudding pops!
“I get a big kick out of all the gun-grabbers in Hollywood. Do you suppose they’d want their bodyguards and security to be disarmed? I’ve protected several celebrities and I was always carrying a firearm even though I’m a big guy.”
First some qualifiers. I believe in the right of self defense - I am most definitely for the issue of concealed carry permits. I am for the Castle Doctrine and Stand your Ground laws. Also, at one time, in my home state of Oklahoma I was licensed (and worked) as an Armed Security Guard and Armed Private Investigator as a sideline. Also, I have been a member of the NRA well over 20 years, and I own numerous “weapons” (firearms designed only for taking Human life - riot gun, pistols) I don’t want to get beat up for being an anti-gun leftest.
However, I believe Bill Cosby is correct in what he said. He WAS NOT advocating the disarmnent of citizens. He was saying, IMO, that an unlicensed amateur should not be carrying a weapon capable of inflicting death when acting as a “watchman.” Neighborhood watches exist to be “eyes and ears” for law enforcement, not to be law enforcement. Having been someone who “carried” in the line of duty, I tended to be braver when armed, and more cautious when unarmed. I think his points are well made.
There is no further doubt in my mind that Martin was a gangsta wanabee and he had a definite attitude. I am also convinced he did indeed attack Mr. Zimmerman when Mr. Zimmerman was retreating to his vehicle. Under the circumstances Mr. Zimmerman did use justifiable homocide to protect his own life.
Where I agree with Bill Cosby, is that a neighborhood “watch” should not consist of armed persons. The temptation to go beyond what your mandate is great. Although Oklahoma was a concealed carry state, they would not allow an armed person to participate in a police sanctioned neighborhood watch.
I am also now convinced that Mr. Zimmerman wasn’t a gun toting vigalante trying to be a dirty harry. I think his intentions were pure.
However, I think that had he not been armed, as Bill Cosby states, he would never have followed Martin and the resulting use of deadly force would not have been required.
So, I agree that “amateurs” should not be armed while performing a “neighborhood watch.” OR, before they can they should receive state recognized training making them better qualified to do such para-police activities outside of their own property.
Now, IF, Bill Cosby has a hidden agenda to generally “disarm” citizens, I vehemently disagree with him. It is only in this narrow area of a “neighborhood watch” where I agree. Police make mistakes all the time, even those very well trained. Can we expect an untrained amateur to not make mistakes? I think not. It was a mistake to follow Martin. A prudent individual would not have done so.
Remember, like I said, Mr. Zimmerman was correct to use deadly force in his self defense when Martin violently attacked him. However, IF Mr. Zimmerman had not followed him....possibly as Bill Cosby said because he was armed, this situation would not be confronting us now.
I’m afraid maybe good statutes like “stand your ground” may be removed because of this incident.
And also remember, IF Cosby has an agenda beyond this narrow area of “neighborhood watches” I don’t agree with him.
I would actually like to know what professional law enforcemtn personnel on FR think?
“I would actually like to know what professional law enforcemtn personnel on FR think?” I’m not in LE, but I agree with your wise post. This armed Zimmerman NW guy also gave them the opening they needed (a huge can of worms) and they are running with it as far as they can.
Obviously he was thinking like a civilian, but even a civilian like me would have backed towards my car, knowing that a suspicious individual was lurking around and aware I was tracking him. Having a gun isn't some kind of shield against getting stabbed or shot from behind.
Neighborhood Watchmen have the same second amendment rights as everyone else.
Since when did Bill Cosby become a “social commentator”? He is a comedian, pure and simple. And in this case, he is wrong. There will always be bad things that happen regardless of the possession of a gun. The passengers on Flight 93 didn’t have guns when they took on the hijackers. The hijackers didn’t have guns, they had box cutters. This is as silly as Rep. Frederica Wilson’s (D-FL) resolution last week that stated racial hatred should never happen again. Well, Miss Wilson, we wish, but all the resolutions aren’t going to stop people from exercising their free will.
Cosby doesn’t have bodyguards that I know of. Not every celebrity has one.
Just because I disagree with him doesn’t make him “phony”.
Since no one knows the full details of that evening, George Zimmerman’s actions can’t be assessed.
Not all the details of that night have been released. Something new is that Zimmerman was a part of NW, but was out doing business for someone else when he spotted Martin.
True. And think of all the fun “show downs” we could witness.
Sure wish Cosby would have stayed out of it, but since he joined the fray, it would be nice if he would slap down the New Black Panthers for the bounty, and Spike for the address debacle, not to mention suggesting Zimmerman be hanged.
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