Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Waiting to Lose in Afghanistan
National Review ^ | Leif Babin

Posted on 04/09/2012 4:51:05 AM PDT by nuconvert

After a decade of fighting in Afghanistan, at tremendous cost in American blood and treasure, many Americans are now asking: Why are we there? What do we have to show for our efforts? The answers are troubling: A government, under President Hamid Karzai, that is corrupt, largely incompetent, and of questionable loyalty; inept Afghan security forces that regularly turn their weapons on their American and NATO advisers; and a resurgent Taliban poised to regain control of the country after U.S. forces withdraw. Many look at these facts and conclude that the U.S. can’t win in Afghanistan and should therefore get out. But few have examined the dire consequences of losing.

-excerpt-

Many say that the American people, after ten years, are tired of the war in Afghanistan. But I believe Americans — and certainly the U.S. military — are tired of not winning. The U.S. is in dire need of a serious shift in strategy — from one that props up a corrupt and incompetent Afghan government and simply trains and equips its security forces, to one that smashes our enemies, the Taliban and al-Qaeda. America must allow U.S. combat forces, now largely restricted to defensive actions, to take the offensive, rout the enemy from safe havens in Afghanistan and the Pakistani tribal areas, radically reduce the Taliban’s military capability, and then declare victory (which, be it noted, President Obama failed to do in Iraq) and bring our troops home.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afghanistan
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

1 posted on 04/09/2012 4:51:08 AM PDT by nuconvert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

See the Russians in the 1980’s...


2 posted on 04/09/2012 4:56:22 AM PDT by ltc8k6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.


3 posted on 04/09/2012 4:57:21 AM PDT by samtheman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

Destroy EVERYTHING as we move out... heavily mine the mountain passes and then cover and let simmer.

LLS


4 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:07 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES! (accept only the original))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: samtheman
We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.

Exactly correct. However, mecca and medina should also have been on the "NUKE IT NOW" list. This is a religious war and it will only end with the death of the last moslem.

5 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:16 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: samtheman
We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.

Exactly correct. However, mecca and medina should also have been on the "NUKE IT NOW" list. This is a religious war and it will only end with the death of the last moslem.

6 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:16 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: samtheman
We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.

Exactly correct. However, mecca and medina should also have been on the "NUKE IT NOW" list. This is a religious war and it will only end with the death of the last moslem.

7 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:21 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

We’re tired of not winning ANY war since 1945. And, at the current rate, we never will.


8 posted on 04/09/2012 5:08:08 AM PDT by John W (Viva Cristo Rey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: John W
We’re tired of not winning ANY war since 1945. And, at the current rate, we never will.

Amen!

Worst yet, is that our gallant Military Warriors will soon (many already have) start wondering (much as we Nam Vets did) as to why we were not allowed to prevail (i.e., "Win") and was the cost in blood and treasure worth it?

The answer is obvious and we have not only this Neo-Commie Despot (Barack Hussein Obama) to blame, but also our very own "Compassionate Conservative" clueless, RINO, Boosh, who allowed both Iraq and Af-Gan to form new Constitutions with Islam (Sharia) being the controlling authorities.

That in itself was to be the deciding factor in neither country ever being a true ally; their never being willing to engage fellow Islamofascist terrorist brethren; and the guarantee that what ol George was so gun ho about (Nation Building and Hearts and Minds) would never come to fruition, never mind, that the people in those countries would never experience freedom, rights and liberties.

BRING EM' ALL HOME and bring them home NOW!!!

9 posted on 04/09/2012 5:27:09 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

The basic problem is treating Afghanistan like a country - it is not one. Just because someone drew lines on a map doesn’t mean the people within those lines are a country. To the people of the region, family and tribe have always been more real and more important than any notion of “country”. I don’t have an easy answer; Just stating the root of the problem.


10 posted on 04/09/2012 5:28:26 AM PDT by Dilbert56 (Harry Reid, D-Nev.: "We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

“many Americans are now asking: Why are we there? What do we have to show for our efforts? The answers are troubling:”

Afghanistan produces 90% of the World’s Opium, Heroin use is making a dramatic come back across every city in America, a simple google will easily confirm this. We have effectively maintained and protected the trade routes exclusively used for Opium Distribution from Afghanistan. Opium is there number 1 cash crop in that country. Seems to me that if we need a War on Drugs, we gotta have Drugs , and we have done exceptionally well maintaining an ever increasing supply of Opium to the US. So we accomplished our main goal, a lot of people made tons of money, we have expanded our role in the War on Drugs and secured our very futures with never ending employment in the War on Drugs.


11 posted on 04/09/2012 5:28:35 AM PDT by eyeamok
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: John W
"Winning" was redefined after Korea to mean making them like us enough to be our mirror image.

Winning means to conquer. we won WW1 and WW2 by destroying countries to the point they had no fight left and then rebuilt the countries in our likeness. They have been very successful.

We cannot let the countries we are fighting in define winning and losing. We, by definition, cannot win if they cannot lose.

12 posted on 04/09/2012 5:33:51 AM PDT by River_Wrangler (Nothing difficult is ever easy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

We lost the moment the idiot Bush and his chief dhimmi Karen Hughes starting bleating on about “girls can go to school again!!!”, and off the track we went. Funny, after Pearl Harbor, I don’t recall the liberal FDR taking his shoes off in a Shinto shrine and then calling for us to rescue the wonderful Japanese people from the tyrant Tojo. The mission was clear: defeat and destroy the enemy. When the twin towers fell, did you give two shits about women’s rights in Afghanistan? That’s what we got for electing “compassionate conservatism”. And it looks like we are about to do it yet again.


13 posted on 04/09/2012 5:34:32 AM PDT by montag813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

The whole damned hellhole should have been turned into a *green glass skating rink* in ‘92, and not a drop of American blood or treasure should have been wasted. 20-20 hindsight, I know. I said it then, based upon what happened to the Soviets in the 80s. I caught flak for it from a lot of people (not here). History is a great teacher. It would have remedied the world’s opium/heroin etc problem too, at least for a few years.


14 posted on 04/09/2012 5:36:26 AM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

If a nation ignores history, it is bound to repeat it. Although there have been several conquerors of Afganistan, none have been able to proceed to civilizing or changing the minds or the lives of Afgans.

We were right to invade and kill as many Taliban as possible, but when that task was completed as much as practically possible, it was time to leave Afganistan to be itself, with the stern caviot that we would not tolerate any other outside force or group to infiltrate the power vacuum we left.

With our blood and treasure we have shown them a better way. Now, let the damn Afgans be Afgans, if their choice is to live in the 8th Century, so be it. If they try to growm opium, Agent Orange the poppy fields.


15 posted on 04/09/2012 5:37:40 AM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

The only satisfaction I would derive from restoration of Taliban control is the comeuppance the ingrate Afghans (a pity for the appreciative ones) would suffer as they once again stew in their Taliban juices.


16 posted on 04/09/2012 5:46:54 AM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: John W
We’re tired of not winning ANY war since 1945. And, at the current rate, we never will.

Amen!

Worst yet, is that our gallant Military Warriors will soon (many already have) start wondering (much as we Nam Vets did) as to why we were not allowed to prevail (i.e., "Win") and was the cost in blood and treasure worth it?

The answer is obvious and we have not only this Neo-Commie Despot (Barack Hussein Obama) to blame, but also our very own "Compassionate Conservative" clueless, RINO, Boosh, who allowed both Iraq and Af-Gan to form new Constitutions with Islam (Sharia) being the controlling authorities.

That in itself was to be the deciding factor in neither country ever being a true ally; their never being willing to engage fellow Islamofascist terrorist brethren; and the guarantee that what ol George was so gun ho about (Nation Building and Hearts and Minds) would never come to fruition, never mind, that the people in those countries would never experience freedom, rights and liberties.

BRING EM' ALL HOME and bring them home NOW!!!

17 posted on 04/09/2012 5:49:33 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert
Worst yet, is that our gallant Military Warriors will soon (many already have) start wondering (much as we Nam Vets did) as to why we were not allowed to prevail (i.e., "Win") and was the cost in blood and treasure worth it?

The answer is obvious and we have not only this Neo-Commie Despot (Barack Hussein Obama) to blame, but also our very own "Compassionate Conservative" clueless, RINO, Boosh, who allowed both Iraq and Af-Gan to form new Constitutions with Islam (Sharia) being the controlling authorities.

That in itself was to be the deciding factor in neither country ever being a true ally; their never being willing to engage fellow Islamofascist terrorist brethren; and the guarantee that what ol George was so gun ho about (Nation Building and Hearts and Minds) would never come to fruition, never mind, that the people in those countries would never experience freedom, rights and liberties.

BRING EM' ALL HOME and bring them home NOW!!!

18 posted on 04/09/2012 5:50:48 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

You can’t support a war anymore and expect it to be fought right. It just gets worse with each war we are involved in, and it’s why we haven’t had a decisive victory in a war since WW2, which also was against a much more powerful enemy than any we have faced since. Even though we have such a well trained military force with the most advanced weapons the world has ever seen they are not allowed to win wars any longer. We don’t have what it takes to fight a total war that we are willing to win at all cost any longer, and we have shown time and time again that it’s impossible to fight the way we want to fantasize war is fought and still win. If we aren’t willing to fight a total war then it’s a war we don’t find important enough to be fighting in the first place. We either need to stop getting involved in wars or start fighting them the way history has shown they should be fought to win. That involves a lot of brutal realities that come with any war, no matter how necessary they are, and we need to accept that or accept that we don’t have what it takes as a people to win wars anymore. Trying to make war something that it isn’t, and refusing to ever accept the obvious truth of it, is exactly why we can’t win them anymore.

“War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

If the people raise a howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war.

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

Regardless of your personal opinion of Sherman he is quoting the obvious truth of war, and our history has shown us the consequences of trying to change it into something that’s not quite as ugly as it is in reality has done to our success at victory.

We shouldn’t be having 10+ year wars with nations like Iraq and Afghanistan. They should have never happened, or have been over with during the Bush administration as they could have been. Instead we try nation building, and give civilian lives so much thought that it prevents us from ever having a chance. I imagine the leaders we had in WW2 would have liked to trade their enemy to those we face today who pose no threat to an unleashed U.S. military. We have the best trained and equipped troops on earth, but they are hampered and forced to give their lives fighting ridiculous strategies for things like propping up a government in Afghanistan that literally allows in it’s constitution the right to murder those who convert from Islam. I somehow doubt we would have allowed that in the past, or allowed Japan to do something like that after the war. We not only try and nation build which our military isn’t trained or meant to do, but we can’t even build a nation friendly toward us.


19 posted on 04/09/2012 5:53:40 AM PDT by ThermoNuclearWarrior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

You can’t support a war anymore and expect it to be fought right. It just gets worse with each war we are involved in, and it’s why we haven’t had a decisive victory in a war since WW2, which also was against a much more powerful enemy than any we have faced since. Even though we have such a well trained military force with the most advanced weapons the world has ever seen they are not allowed to win wars any longer. We don’t have what it takes to fight a total war that we are willing to win at all cost any longer, and we have shown time and time again that it’s impossible to fight the way we want to fantasize war is fought and still win. If we aren’t willing to fight a total war then it’s a war we don’t find important enough to be fighting in the first place. We either need to stop getting involved in wars or start fighting them the way history has shown they should be fought to win. That involves a lot of brutal realities that come with any war, no matter how necessary they are, and we need to accept that or accept that we don’t have what it takes as a people to win wars anymore. Trying to make war something that it isn’t, and refusing to ever accept the obvious truth of it, is exactly why we can’t win them anymore.

“War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

If the people raise a howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war.

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

Regardless of your personal opinion of Sherman he is quoting the obvious truth of war, and our history has shown us the consequences of trying to change it into something that’s not quite as ugly as it is in reality has done to our success at victory.

We shouldn’t be having 10+ year wars with nations like Iraq and Afghanistan. They should have never happened, or have been over with during the Bush administration as they could have been. Instead we try nation building, and give civilian lives so much thought that it prevents us from ever having a chance. I imagine the leaders we had in WW2 would have liked to trade their enemy to those we face today who pose no threat to an unleashed U.S. military. We have the best trained and equipped troops on earth, but they are hampered and forced to give their lives fighting ridiculous strategies for things like propping up a government in Afghanistan that literally allows in it’s constitution the right to murder those who convert from Islam. I somehow doubt we would have allowed that in the past, or allowed Japan to do something like that after the war. We not only try and nation build which our military isn’t trained or meant to do, but we can’t even build a nation friendly toward us.


20 posted on 04/09/2012 5:55:11 AM PDT by ThermoNuclearWarrior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: montag813
We lost the moment the idiot Bush and his chief dhimmi Karen Hughes starting bleating on about “girls can go to school again!!!”, and off the track we went.

Hmmmm, interesting point and post. Wonder if Karen Hughes was the authoress of our problem as you say -- and pushed Bush over the edge into "nation-building", which we said, I thought, we were not going to do?

And this goes back to something I've been wondering about: can a feminized country do anything right?

21 posted on 04/09/2012 5:58:25 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

We kicked the Taliban’s ass and taught the state supporters of terrorism a lesson that they only now are beginning to forget. I’d say the war in Afghanistan (and Iraq) bought the West a decade of freedom from the most egregious acts of terrorism on its own soil.


22 posted on 04/09/2012 5:58:36 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

What does “winning” in Afghanistan look like? Anyone? Bueller?

We should have left in 2003 or so, right after the punitive expedition phase, before meals on wheels, aka “Nation Building”.


23 posted on 04/09/2012 6:03:43 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: X-spurt

“...if their choice is to live in the 8th Century, so be it.”

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the root of the problem. You cannot force a feudal society of tribes and warlords who practice a vile, hateful religion and considers the rape of young boys as perfectly acceptable to live in the modern world if THEY DON’T WANT TO!

They enjoy being ignorant and perverse and THEY WILL NEVER CHANGE BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE TELLS THEM TO.

This is a fight to the death and thanks to our poor leadership, they are winning.


24 posted on 04/09/2012 6:06:52 AM PDT by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Conservative Vermont Vet
BRING EM' ALL HOME and bring them home NOW!!!

Well, that will sure answer the "was it worth it?" question, won't it? And the answer will be "NO", never mind that they started it by killing 3000 of our people out of a clear blue sky -- and we are going to let them finish it? And give them bragging rights?

Suggest you rethink a bit, amigo.

25 posted on 04/09/2012 6:07:50 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ltc8k6
Many look at these facts and conclude that the U.S. can’t win in Afghanistan and should therefore get out.

Yup...the Rooskies figured this out long time ago. As far as getting out, there are other ways of maintain a presence in the area.

26 posted on 04/09/2012 6:09:58 AM PDT by evad (STOP SPENDING, STOP SPENDING, STOP SPENDING. It's the SPENDING Stupid)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Mr Ramsbotham
I’d say the war in Afghanistan (and Iraq) bought the West a decade of freedom

True, but the wars also taught the islamic radicals a lesson: The West, and particularly the USA, can be worn down and can ultimately be beaten.

The radicals now believe that history is on their side, and they are right. They are emboldened everywhere, and pushing everywhere.

27 posted on 04/09/2012 6:16:43 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: LibLieSlayer
1. Agent Orange all food crops.
2. Infect all cattle with Mad Cow Disease, leave the pigs alone.
3. Infect all fowl with avian influenza...leave the pigs alone.
4. Allow above to propagate, then send care packages seeded with Small Pox.
5. Allow all of the above to further propagate.
6. Infect all bodies of water with red tide algae.
7.Allow all of the above to propagate.
8. Allow Catholic Church to feed the populace, at the first sign of anti-christian behavior, stop feeding them.
9. Repeat as necessary. 10. Introduce civilization.
28 posted on 04/09/2012 6:19:06 AM PDT by RavenLooneyToon (Tail gunner Joe was right.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

We should never have gotten into Afghanistan.
In a thousand years, nobody has ever been successful at a land war in that region.
We should have just bombed them into oblivion and come home.
If we really needed to target specific individuals, that should have been done by the CIA on a personal level.


29 posted on 04/09/2012 6:19:32 AM PDT by BuffaloJack (End Obama's War On Freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

We leave Afghanistan....And Then What Happens?

I’ve seen this movie before, and Randolf Scott does not save the day.


30 posted on 04/09/2012 6:19:58 AM PDT by Valin (I'm not completely worthless. I can be used as a bad example.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert56
The basic problem is that we as a people aren't willing to accept the brutalness of war anymore, and have tried to reform it into something else which our history has shown doesn't work. We should have just destroyed the cities and people of Afghanistan like history has shown us is how to win wars. That would have also stopped a lot of our current conflicts, and sent a real message to our enemies that we mean business. If we insist on getting involved on the ground we should have brought Afghanistan into modern age with pure brutality and the banning of Islam.

Instead we just embolden small weak nations that they can always count on us to restrict ourselves to defeat no matter how well trained our troops are, or how advanced our weaponry is because of self imposed restrictions. History is full of wars and how to win and lose them. We don't have to be as brutal as some in history, but it can only go so far before you are hindering yourself. Even in WW2 guys like General Patton got in trouble for stating obvious truths about war. We like to romanticize it instead of accepting the truths of it that we all know. We are so obsessed with the lives of civilians, many who are sympathizers, to the point we will lose the war to spare a life. That doesn't make us a great moral people, but an ignorant people. Accept war for what it is or don't support it. Those who support wars and the ridiculous ways we now fight them are the worst people, and responsible for many lost lives and a weakened nation. The war could still be won in a short and brutal fashion, but that's not going to happen. We will just lose it.

31 posted on 04/09/2012 6:25:30 AM PDT by ThermoNuclearWarrior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

The only thing left for this is the final picture - the helicopter taking off from the roof of the US Embassy. It will be blamed on Bush.


32 posted on 04/09/2012 6:28:12 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: samtheman

The ONLY solution for this adversary.


33 posted on 04/09/2012 6:28:42 AM PDT by arrdon (Never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

Having been there, as I’m sure many on FR have been, I learned a few things. But one of the most poignant was that in order for anything to happen in Afghanistan that would be considered positive, in Western standards, it would probably take at least 2 generations.

You’re talking about educating a country where they wipe their asses with their hands, they sell their daughters, the tribal leader is more important than anyone else, kids mean nothing - especially girls and the grandaddy’s of them all(IMHO) are the concept of “Pashtun Man Love” and the rampant pedophilia - directed toward boys.

Most people in the western, civilized world couldn’t comprehend the savagery that is every day life in that country and never will.

Aaaannnnndddddddd....on top of all of that, the entire political, religious and socio-economic system is run by a bunch of thugs that hide behind their religion when its convenient for them. as does Islam in general.


34 posted on 04/09/2012 6:51:38 AM PDT by qaz123
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

Our troops have never lost in Afghanistan. In every instance when they have been called upon, our troops have resoundingly defeated the enemy.

Our politicians have played games there for years with warloards and Pakistan.


35 posted on 04/09/2012 6:55:45 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 43north
Actually you can force them to change, but it takes a very brutal policy. Civilizations use to force others to change culturally and religiously by making laws that aren't in accordance with their beliefs and enforcing it with torturous death against those who refuse to reform. The entire world has been changed this way when we look at history. We have the military power that we could have banned Islam and burned every mosque to the ground in Afghanistan while taking complete control, but it would also have taken a brutality we don't even think about these days. One of the ones I happen to disagree with us abandoning is the killing and destruction of the enemies family and property. It might be bad, but letting a possible insurgent, or person just looking for a payday, know they are getting every single member of their family involved makes a difference. We should have sat up brutal pro-U.S. governments in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of trying to bring democracy to animals. We should have taken oil from Iraq because it's a hell of a lot more important to fight for than whatever the hell it is we did.
36 posted on 04/09/2012 7:06:18 AM PDT by ThermoNuclearWarrior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: montag813
Exactly. When Bush started the 'religion of peace' bullcrap and encouraged us to go shopping instead of joining up, I knew we were in deep sh--.

He could have raised the armed forces back to Cold War levels in an instant and annihilated the enemy, starting with Syria and moving east to Peshawar.

Instead we got lip quivering sentimentality and 'nation building' with savages abroad and tolerance for traitors in the opposition party and the press at home. Eight years and he couldn't send Khalid Sheik Mohammed to the gallows-- what a joke.

We will never win as long as our morally bankrupt elite cherishes their idiotic illusions more than their country and reality.

Tuer les tous Dieu connaisera les siens.

37 posted on 04/09/2012 7:22:50 AM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Gaffer
“The only thing left for this is the final picture - the helicopter taking off from the roof of the US Embassy. It will be blamed on Bush.”

It will be his fault along with others, including our next President, because it can still be won with overwhelming force. The fact is the war should have, and could have, been over while Bush was in office. He didn't unleash the full U.S. military without restriction on their use of power while forgetting about nation building. He sent them in with the same unrealistic ways for victory, and our next President will be to blame for our lose or continued policy of fighting to lose, unless there is a dramatic change in policy. Those aren't the only two options no matter how unlikely it is we will actually ever see our military unleashed for total war. We should win the war the way we should have to begin with, and we all know that isn't going to happen. We pullout or stay put getting our guys killed for what we made mean nothing.

I would like to see someone finally admit that we were naive in thinking we could build a civilized pro-American nation in Afghanistan, and have now halted those plans for an all-out destruction of the nation and Taliban strongholds in Pakistan.

38 posted on 04/09/2012 7:30:55 AM PDT by ThermoNuclearWarrior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: RavenLooneyToon

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lls


39 posted on 04/09/2012 7:34:25 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES! (accept only the original))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
....because it can still be won with overwhelming force.

The mistake with Afghanistan is in believing there is anything remotely redeemable about it. A collection of false religion fanatics still stuck in a time 1500 years ago.

In reality, it should have been nuked from orbit multiple times over. It is the only way to be sure it does not continue.

40 posted on 04/09/2012 7:37:25 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

My plan for Afghanistan:

1 Start withdrawing our troops

2 Tell the “One Child” Chinese that with the men there killing each other that there are plenty of single women in Afghanistan.

3 Let the Chinese army invade. Afghanistan becomes their problem and they might be ruthless enough to take care of things.


41 posted on 04/09/2012 7:52:50 AM PDT by CtBigPat (Free Republic - The grown-ups table of the internet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ltc8k6

Russia didn’t have NATO writing the rules of engagement with lawyers determining what a soldier can or cannot do.


42 posted on 04/09/2012 7:54:58 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: montag813

Before you get all misty-eyed about WWII and FDR’s war aims, I don’t recall the liberal FDR forcing the war criminal Hirohito out or including him in the planning for war crime trials, or developing a strategy to keep the Commies from taking Eastern Europe.


43 posted on 04/09/2012 8:00:54 AM PDT by ngat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Leaning Right
True, but the wars also taught the islamic radicals a lesson: The West, and particularly the USA, can be worn down and can ultimately be beaten.

It wasn't the wars that taught them that; it was the division on the homefront.

44 posted on 04/09/2012 8:27:51 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

“Even though we have such a well trained military force with the most advanced weapons the world has ever seen they are not allowed to win wars any longer. We don’t have what it takes to fight a total war that we are willing to win at all cost any longer, and we have shown time and time again that...”

Your points are all well-taken, but...

You are overlooking the reality that the “United States” that won World War II simply doesn’t exist any more, nor will it ever exist again.

The USA “of then” was a culturally (and ethnically) unified nation with common and traditional values. When threatened, a nation so unified was able to find within the common purpose and intestinal fortitude necessary to support the level of human and economic sacrifice necessary that made “total war” possible, and total victory achievable.

Look around TODAY. That unity no longer exists. Indeed, the country is reaching a level of internal “division” nearly as acute as existed in the 1850’s.

Victory against a “common enemy” isn’t possible in a nation that no longer has “common bonds”. Whatever bonds that held “the old America” together seem to be dissolving. I daresay the worst conflict we may experience in the future may be of a civil/ethnic nature — an internal war.


45 posted on 04/09/2012 9:40:51 AM PDT by Road Glide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Mr Ramsbotham
It wasn't the wars that taught them that; it was the division on the homefront.

Agreed. And since the homefront has shifted back into an ignore/appease mode, we are in for rough sailing ahead.

46 posted on 04/09/2012 9:41:26 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

We Congress passes a formal declaration of war to unite the nation, we win. When they don’t, we don’t. Presidential choice of war work-arounds, don’t work around.


47 posted on 04/09/2012 9:51:59 AM PDT by ex-snook ("above all things, truth beareth away the victory")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hedgetrimmer

And they still got their hats handed to them...


48 posted on 04/09/2012 10:14:30 AM PDT by ltc8k6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert

It is not the job of the military to “nation-build” leave that for the Peace Corps to do. The job of the military is to destroy the enemy. What should happen is we should sweep the entire ME (and North Africa) from Morocco to Iran and Saudi Arabia and kill every last Al-Qaeda terrorist and any local militant. Then bring in the Peace Corps (let them do something useful for once) and Catholic Charities, and other Christian missionaries. provide national guard protection for these, and keep moving east. Of course, this would necessitate a much larger military. Of course, no one is willing to believe that this would succeed, much less support a c.o.a such as the one above.


49 posted on 04/09/2012 1:05:40 PM PDT by FutureRocketMan (Santorum 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert
While not starting with any similarities to Viet Nam the war (sic) has certainly morphed into exactly what we had in Viet Nam in the last three years of that doomed war. We need to get totally out of the mid-east and issue a Fatwa of our own.

We do have weapons of mass destruction and if you mess with us or any of our allies we will use them, post haste.

Screw this being the good guys wearing white hats. Bomb them back into the 7th Century where they would like to live anyway. Scare them back into the caves where they have to wave a white flag just to step out for a drink of water.

Of course, we will need a very different CINC and Congress to do this.

Sooner or later it will come to this.

50 posted on 04/09/2012 1:32:31 PM PDT by ImpBill ("America, where are you now?" - Little "r" republican!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson