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Waiting to Lose in Afghanistan
National Review ^ | Leif Babin

Posted on 04/09/2012 4:51:05 AM PDT by nuconvert

After a decade of fighting in Afghanistan, at tremendous cost in American blood and treasure, many Americans are now asking: Why are we there? What do we have to show for our efforts? The answers are troubling: A government, under President Hamid Karzai, that is corrupt, largely incompetent, and of questionable loyalty; inept Afghan security forces that regularly turn their weapons on their American and NATO advisers; and a resurgent Taliban poised to regain control of the country after U.S. forces withdraw. Many look at these facts and conclude that the U.S. can’t win in Afghanistan and should therefore get out. But few have examined the dire consequences of losing.

-excerpt-

Many say that the American people, after ten years, are tired of the war in Afghanistan. But I believe Americans — and certainly the U.S. military — are tired of not winning. The U.S. is in dire need of a serious shift in strategy — from one that props up a corrupt and incompetent Afghan government and simply trains and equips its security forces, to one that smashes our enemies, the Taliban and al-Qaeda. America must allow U.S. combat forces, now largely restricted to defensive actions, to take the offensive, rout the enemy from safe havens in Afghanistan and the Pakistani tribal areas, radically reduce the Taliban’s military capability, and then declare victory (which, be it noted, President Obama failed to do in Iraq) and bring our troops home.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afghanistan
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1 posted on 04/09/2012 4:51:08 AM PDT by nuconvert
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To: nuconvert

See the Russians in the 1980’s...


2 posted on 04/09/2012 4:56:22 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: nuconvert

We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.


3 posted on 04/09/2012 4:57:21 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: nuconvert

Destroy EVERYTHING as we move out... heavily mine the mountain passes and then cover and let simmer.

LLS


4 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:07 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES! (accept only the original))
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To: samtheman
We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.

Exactly correct. However, mecca and medina should also have been on the "NUKE IT NOW" list. This is a religious war and it will only end with the death of the last moslem.

5 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:16 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: samtheman
We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.

Exactly correct. However, mecca and medina should also have been on the "NUKE IT NOW" list. This is a religious war and it will only end with the death of the last moslem.

6 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:16 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: samtheman
We should have nuked Kandahar immediately after 911. And promised a greater response if it ever happens again.

Exactly correct. However, mecca and medina should also have been on the "NUKE IT NOW" list. This is a religious war and it will only end with the death of the last moslem.

7 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:21 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: nuconvert

We’re tired of not winning ANY war since 1945. And, at the current rate, we never will.


8 posted on 04/09/2012 5:08:08 AM PDT by John W (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: John W
We’re tired of not winning ANY war since 1945. And, at the current rate, we never will.

Amen!

Worst yet, is that our gallant Military Warriors will soon (many already have) start wondering (much as we Nam Vets did) as to why we were not allowed to prevail (i.e., "Win") and was the cost in blood and treasure worth it?

The answer is obvious and we have not only this Neo-Commie Despot (Barack Hussein Obama) to blame, but also our very own "Compassionate Conservative" clueless, RINO, Boosh, who allowed both Iraq and Af-Gan to form new Constitutions with Islam (Sharia) being the controlling authorities.

That in itself was to be the deciding factor in neither country ever being a true ally; their never being willing to engage fellow Islamofascist terrorist brethren; and the guarantee that what ol George was so gun ho about (Nation Building and Hearts and Minds) would never come to fruition, never mind, that the people in those countries would never experience freedom, rights and liberties.

BRING EM' ALL HOME and bring them home NOW!!!

9 posted on 04/09/2012 5:27:09 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: nuconvert

The basic problem is treating Afghanistan like a country - it is not one. Just because someone drew lines on a map doesn’t mean the people within those lines are a country. To the people of the region, family and tribe have always been more real and more important than any notion of “country”. I don’t have an easy answer; Just stating the root of the problem.


10 posted on 04/09/2012 5:28:26 AM PDT by Dilbert56 (Harry Reid, D-Nev.: "We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war.")
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To: nuconvert

“many Americans are now asking: Why are we there? What do we have to show for our efforts? The answers are troubling:”

Afghanistan produces 90% of the World’s Opium, Heroin use is making a dramatic come back across every city in America, a simple google will easily confirm this. We have effectively maintained and protected the trade routes exclusively used for Opium Distribution from Afghanistan. Opium is there number 1 cash crop in that country. Seems to me that if we need a War on Drugs, we gotta have Drugs , and we have done exceptionally well maintaining an ever increasing supply of Opium to the US. So we accomplished our main goal, a lot of people made tons of money, we have expanded our role in the War on Drugs and secured our very futures with never ending employment in the War on Drugs.


11 posted on 04/09/2012 5:28:35 AM PDT by eyeamok
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To: John W
"Winning" was redefined after Korea to mean making them like us enough to be our mirror image.

Winning means to conquer. we won WW1 and WW2 by destroying countries to the point they had no fight left and then rebuilt the countries in our likeness. They have been very successful.

We cannot let the countries we are fighting in define winning and losing. We, by definition, cannot win if they cannot lose.

12 posted on 04/09/2012 5:33:51 AM PDT by River_Wrangler (Nothing difficult is ever easy!)
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To: nuconvert

We lost the moment the idiot Bush and his chief dhimmi Karen Hughes starting bleating on about “girls can go to school again!!!”, and off the track we went. Funny, after Pearl Harbor, I don’t recall the liberal FDR taking his shoes off in a Shinto shrine and then calling for us to rescue the wonderful Japanese people from the tyrant Tojo. The mission was clear: defeat and destroy the enemy. When the twin towers fell, did you give two shits about women’s rights in Afghanistan? That’s what we got for electing “compassionate conservatism”. And it looks like we are about to do it yet again.


13 posted on 04/09/2012 5:34:32 AM PDT by montag813
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To: nuconvert

The whole damned hellhole should have been turned into a *green glass skating rink* in ‘92, and not a drop of American blood or treasure should have been wasted. 20-20 hindsight, I know. I said it then, based upon what happened to the Soviets in the 80s. I caught flak for it from a lot of people (not here). History is a great teacher. It would have remedied the world’s opium/heroin etc problem too, at least for a few years.


14 posted on 04/09/2012 5:36:26 AM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
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To: nuconvert

If a nation ignores history, it is bound to repeat it. Although there have been several conquerors of Afganistan, none have been able to proceed to civilizing or changing the minds or the lives of Afgans.

We were right to invade and kill as many Taliban as possible, but when that task was completed as much as practically possible, it was time to leave Afganistan to be itself, with the stern caviot that we would not tolerate any other outside force or group to infiltrate the power vacuum we left.

With our blood and treasure we have shown them a better way. Now, let the damn Afgans be Afgans, if their choice is to live in the 8th Century, so be it. If they try to growm opium, Agent Orange the poppy fields.


15 posted on 04/09/2012 5:37:40 AM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: nuconvert

The only satisfaction I would derive from restoration of Taliban control is the comeuppance the ingrate Afghans (a pity for the appreciative ones) would suffer as they once again stew in their Taliban juices.


16 posted on 04/09/2012 5:46:54 AM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: John W
We’re tired of not winning ANY war since 1945. And, at the current rate, we never will.

Amen!

Worst yet, is that our gallant Military Warriors will soon (many already have) start wondering (much as we Nam Vets did) as to why we were not allowed to prevail (i.e., "Win") and was the cost in blood and treasure worth it?

The answer is obvious and we have not only this Neo-Commie Despot (Barack Hussein Obama) to blame, but also our very own "Compassionate Conservative" clueless, RINO, Boosh, who allowed both Iraq and Af-Gan to form new Constitutions with Islam (Sharia) being the controlling authorities.

That in itself was to be the deciding factor in neither country ever being a true ally; their never being willing to engage fellow Islamofascist terrorist brethren; and the guarantee that what ol George was so gun ho about (Nation Building and Hearts and Minds) would never come to fruition, never mind, that the people in those countries would never experience freedom, rights and liberties.

BRING EM' ALL HOME and bring them home NOW!!!

17 posted on 04/09/2012 5:49:33 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert
Worst yet, is that our gallant Military Warriors will soon (many already have) start wondering (much as we Nam Vets did) as to why we were not allowed to prevail (i.e., "Win") and was the cost in blood and treasure worth it?

The answer is obvious and we have not only this Neo-Commie Despot (Barack Hussein Obama) to blame, but also our very own "Compassionate Conservative" clueless, RINO, Boosh, who allowed both Iraq and Af-Gan to form new Constitutions with Islam (Sharia) being the controlling authorities.

That in itself was to be the deciding factor in neither country ever being a true ally; their never being willing to engage fellow Islamofascist terrorist brethren; and the guarantee that what ol George was so gun ho about (Nation Building and Hearts and Minds) would never come to fruition, never mind, that the people in those countries would never experience freedom, rights and liberties.

BRING EM' ALL HOME and bring them home NOW!!!

18 posted on 04/09/2012 5:50:48 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: nuconvert

You can’t support a war anymore and expect it to be fought right. It just gets worse with each war we are involved in, and it’s why we haven’t had a decisive victory in a war since WW2, which also was against a much more powerful enemy than any we have faced since. Even though we have such a well trained military force with the most advanced weapons the world has ever seen they are not allowed to win wars any longer. We don’t have what it takes to fight a total war that we are willing to win at all cost any longer, and we have shown time and time again that it’s impossible to fight the way we want to fantasize war is fought and still win. If we aren’t willing to fight a total war then it’s a war we don’t find important enough to be fighting in the first place. We either need to stop getting involved in wars or start fighting them the way history has shown they should be fought to win. That involves a lot of brutal realities that come with any war, no matter how necessary they are, and we need to accept that or accept that we don’t have what it takes as a people to win wars anymore. Trying to make war something that it isn’t, and refusing to ever accept the obvious truth of it, is exactly why we can’t win them anymore.

“War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

If the people raise a howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war.

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

Regardless of your personal opinion of Sherman he is quoting the obvious truth of war, and our history has shown us the consequences of trying to change it into something that’s not quite as ugly as it is in reality has done to our success at victory.

We shouldn’t be having 10+ year wars with nations like Iraq and Afghanistan. They should have never happened, or have been over with during the Bush administration as they could have been. Instead we try nation building, and give civilian lives so much thought that it prevents us from ever having a chance. I imagine the leaders we had in WW2 would have liked to trade their enemy to those we face today who pose no threat to an unleashed U.S. military. We have the best trained and equipped troops on earth, but they are hampered and forced to give their lives fighting ridiculous strategies for things like propping up a government in Afghanistan that literally allows in it’s constitution the right to murder those who convert from Islam. I somehow doubt we would have allowed that in the past, or allowed Japan to do something like that after the war. We not only try and nation build which our military isn’t trained or meant to do, but we can’t even build a nation friendly toward us.


19 posted on 04/09/2012 5:53:40 AM PDT by ThermoNuclearWarrior
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To: nuconvert

You can’t support a war anymore and expect it to be fought right. It just gets worse with each war we are involved in, and it’s why we haven’t had a decisive victory in a war since WW2, which also was against a much more powerful enemy than any we have faced since. Even though we have such a well trained military force with the most advanced weapons the world has ever seen they are not allowed to win wars any longer. We don’t have what it takes to fight a total war that we are willing to win at all cost any longer, and we have shown time and time again that it’s impossible to fight the way we want to fantasize war is fought and still win. If we aren’t willing to fight a total war then it’s a war we don’t find important enough to be fighting in the first place. We either need to stop getting involved in wars or start fighting them the way history has shown they should be fought to win. That involves a lot of brutal realities that come with any war, no matter how necessary they are, and we need to accept that or accept that we don’t have what it takes as a people to win wars anymore. Trying to make war something that it isn’t, and refusing to ever accept the obvious truth of it, is exactly why we can’t win them anymore.

“War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

If the people raise a howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war.

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

Regardless of your personal opinion of Sherman he is quoting the obvious truth of war, and our history has shown us the consequences of trying to change it into something that’s not quite as ugly as it is in reality has done to our success at victory.

We shouldn’t be having 10+ year wars with nations like Iraq and Afghanistan. They should have never happened, or have been over with during the Bush administration as they could have been. Instead we try nation building, and give civilian lives so much thought that it prevents us from ever having a chance. I imagine the leaders we had in WW2 would have liked to trade their enemy to those we face today who pose no threat to an unleashed U.S. military. We have the best trained and equipped troops on earth, but they are hampered and forced to give their lives fighting ridiculous strategies for things like propping up a government in Afghanistan that literally allows in it’s constitution the right to murder those who convert from Islam. I somehow doubt we would have allowed that in the past, or allowed Japan to do something like that after the war. We not only try and nation build which our military isn’t trained or meant to do, but we can’t even build a nation friendly toward us.


20 posted on 04/09/2012 5:55:11 AM PDT by ThermoNuclearWarrior
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