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New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly's War on Guns (Barf Alert)
Opposingviews ^ | 9 April, 2012 | Michael Allen

Posted on 04/10/2012 6:25:49 AM PDT by marktwain

New York City police commissioner Ray Kelly is under criticism for his "stop-and-frisk" policies that took 800 guns off the streets in 2011. Kelly sees his actions as saving lives, but pro-gun groups like the NRA do not.

Nevertheless, Kelly is sticking to his proverbial guns to get firearms off the streets, whether they be new or old.

He told the NY Daily News: “But here is the thing about old guns. They can be around a very long time, and then you load them and pull the trigger and they still work, against a cop or anybody else.”

“These are the guns that are turning our city into a shooting gallery. We had three cops shot last year. This year we’ve had eight shot already, and it’s only Easter. I’m tired of this!”

A major problem for Kelly is that many of the guns that turn up in New York City come from southern states where gun laws are more lax.

This is why Kelly longs for a national gun law: "There is no easy solution to this problem. Absent a comprehensive anti-gun strategy throughout the country, as opposed to a pro-gun strategy. In New York, we have every law we need on the books. The problem isn’t this state, it’s all the other ones.”

“We got another happy ending last night, because no New York City cop died. But eventually we’re going to run the limit on happy endings. And yet somehow thereseems to be no appetite, oneither side of the aisle in Washington, to do anything to help us.”


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; US: New York
KEYWORDS: banglist; constitution; ny; police
It sounds like war on the Constitution. Did Kelly take an oath to uphold the Constitution? Why is he still in a position of power and authority, when he has proved to be unreliable and unethical?
1 posted on 04/10/2012 6:26:00 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Is he taking guns from legal owners, or from thugs? If he is grabbing the guns from street gangs and thugs, he could and should grab 10,000 guns. He should not be taking even one gun from any law abiding citizen carrying for their own (and others) safety.


2 posted on 04/10/2012 6:38:06 AM PDT by C210N (Mitt "Severe Etch-a-Sketch" mcRominate-me)
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To: marktwain

“many of the guns that turn up in New York City come from southern states where gun laws are more lax”

And where the crime rate is substantially lower than NYC.


3 posted on 04/10/2012 6:42:56 AM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: C210N
Under New York City law, it is nearly impossible to legally carry a gun, despite the Second Amendment. It is also unconstitutional to stop thousands of citizens and search their persons for no other reason than to determine if they are armed.

It appears to me that Mr. Kelly is violating constitutional protections under both the second and fourth amendments.

I could be wrong, but that is how it appears on its face.

4 posted on 04/10/2012 7:25:57 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

I am retired from the NYPD, and the Stop and Frisk, is exactly that, a “frisk”. Its a pat down. A search would be going in your pockets. Following the frisk, the person is identified and a report filed. This procedure was just challenged by the ACLU as they believed it was a violation of rights. The NYPD can no longer keep these records, in spite of the fact that they have led to thousands and thousands of arrests. NYC’s murder rate has gone from over 2,000 per year to 500. Its the safest large city in the nation for a reason. As far as the NYPD, we are sworn to uphold the laws of NY State. We don’t get to pick and choose.


5 posted on 04/10/2012 7:42:35 AM PDT by cumbo78
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To: marktwain

Just one more reason I do not EVER expect to return to New York City (or even the state of New York) in my lifetime. Nor do I expect to ever visit: NJ, MA, CT, RI, IL, or CA. I will drive around them or just not go.


6 posted on 04/10/2012 7:43:45 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: cumbo78
As far as the NYPD, we are sworn to uphold the laws of NY State. We don’t get to pick and choose.

Yeah, too bad you didn't uphold your oath to the Constitution. If you ever took one.

7 posted on 04/10/2012 7:46:00 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: marktwain
He's the Police Commissioner. He upholds the laws of New York City and New York State. He doesn't argue the Constitutionality of those by picking and choosing.

As for Kelly, at the moment, he's the least objectionable possible candidate for mayor I foresee, at the moment.

8 posted on 04/10/2012 7:52:22 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
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To: Tanniker Smith

That said, I find it hard to believe that NYC has gone TWENTY YEARS without a “D” next to the mayor’s name. Okay for the first 8, we had a lib and for the next 12 (when it’s completed), we have a former “D” who became an “R” for political expediency (as in, he wouldn’t have won the Dem primary).


9 posted on 04/10/2012 7:54:14 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

At the state level, you enforce state law. That’s how they get to implement the “Sanctuary City” policy. Do you think officers are happy about not being able to notify the Feds when they apprehend an illegal alien? Do I know the Bill of Rights, what consistutes a good search, when you need a warrant? More than you’ll ever know. Are you sworn to uphold the US Constitution? No, you are not,

As far as Ray Kelly is concerned, he should be Homeland Security Director.


10 posted on 04/10/2012 8:07:39 AM PDT by cumbo78
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To: cumbo78
As far as the NYPD, we are sworn to uphold the laws of NY State. We don’t get to pick and choose.

If you do not get to "pick and choose", then your oath to uphold and defend the Constitution means nothing. In my experience, all officers have considerable discretion in who they arrest.

I could be wrong, perhaps NYPD do not take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Of course, the argument can be made that on abstract, difficult matters, a police officer must rely on the interpretation of the Constitution by his superiors and the courts.

I do not find the Second Amendment or the Fourth Amendment to be so abstract and difficult, but some might.

11 posted on 04/10/2012 8:17:04 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
"...The problem isn’t this state, it’s all the other ones.”

When you are alone in your thinking, and the results you get are bad, you should consider joining the majority.

12 posted on 04/10/2012 8:54:39 AM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: marktwain

“In New York, we have every law we need on the books. The problem isn’t this state, it’s all the other ones.”

Right, Ray. Rampant murder and lawlessness is not an NYC problem, it’s the fault of all those other states that don’t have rampant murder and lawlessness. Riiiiiiight.


13 posted on 04/10/2012 9:09:10 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: C210N

“If he is grabbing the guns from street gangs and thugs, he could and should grab 10,000 guns.”

Where in the Constitution does it say that gang members lose their 2nd Amendment rights? I must have missed that part.


14 posted on 04/10/2012 9:11:29 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: cumbo78
As far as Ray Kelly is concerned, he should be Homeland Security Director.

If there ever was a zot-worthy comment on FR, that's it. Why is this guy still here?

15 posted on 04/10/2012 2:58:32 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

Let’s see. Murder rate at all time lows. NYC not even in the Top 100 in per capita violent crimes. Best Anti Terrorist Unit that has more feet on the ground infiltrating terrorist groups than the Feds. I worked on the streets of The Bronx in the early 80’s when it was a war zone. 154 murders in two years in my precinct which was 20 blocks by 15 blocks. Last year, same precinct, 16 murders. Let’s say I know a little more about this than you do. And if your against getting illegal guns off the street, then you must be anti law enforcement.


16 posted on 04/10/2012 6:29:51 PM PDT by cumbo78
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To: ScottfromNJ
And where the crime rate is substantially lower than NYC.

Name five big cities in the USA with a lower violent crime rate than NYC. Name three. IIRC, there are no cities with a population of 1,000,000+ people that have a lower violent crime rate than NYC, and only a handfull of cities with 500,000+ people have a lower rate than NYC. Among all cities of any size, NYC is well below the national average.

17 posted on 04/10/2012 6:57:01 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Labyrinthos

The comparison was to southern states, not city to city.


18 posted on 04/10/2012 7:54:08 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: cumbo78
And if your against getting illegal guns off the street, then you must be anti law enforcement.

There is no such thing under the US Constitution as an "illegal gun." That crap was tacked on beginning with the National Firearms Act of 1934, and the Gun Control Act of 1968, and every bit of it is unconstitutional.

There are only people who do illegal things with guns.

I am anti-law-enforcement when the "law enforcement" in question bows to the federal government or state laws rather than keeps their oath to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

19 posted on 04/11/2012 2:25:14 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: Labyrinthos; cumbo78
And where the crime rate is substantially lower than NYC. Name five big cities in the USA with a lower violent crime rate than NYC. Name three.

Sure. Nazi Germany and Communist China have low crime rates, too! Take every damn right from the citizen, turn them into neutered unarmed slaves, pack 'em into tight spaces where they don't have enough room to take a dump, and voila, LOW CRIME RATE!

You cannot compare a police state like New York to a free state like Arizona, Wyoming, or even my own North Carolina. I have FREEDOM and a low crime rate.

Leave me and my freedoms alone. If you want to grovel at Bloomies' shoes in Police State New York, have fun.

20 posted on 04/11/2012 2:31:02 PM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

Listen jerk, I did not draw any conclusions as to whether NYC’s low violent crime rate is because of the strict gun control laws or in spite of it. I was simply correcting a factual error with respect the common misconception that NYC has a high violent crime rate. It does not. I don’t need a lecture from you about gun control, gun laws, Nazi Germany, or Communist China. Do a little research instead of spouting the talking points and you might discover a number of “Red State” urban areas with similiar if not higher population densities than NYC that have very few restictions on the ownership of firearms and the right to carry a firearm, but have violent crime rates that are significantly higher than NYC’s rate. You will also find a number of densily populated “Blue State” cities with gun control laws as strict if not stricter than NYC that have crime rates significantly higher than NYC. These are facts. I’m not drawing conclusions and I’m certainly not suggesting that we should trade our 2nd Amenedment Rights for a low crime rate. What I am saying is there doesn’t seem to be a meaningful correlation between violent crime and gun control or the lack of gun control.


21 posted on 04/11/2012 3:47:54 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: backwoods-engineer

There certainly are illegal guns under the US Constitution. Licenses fall under the Reserved Powers which belong to the states. If you have a license to carry a gun in North Carolina, you can NOT carry that gun legally in New York. Therefore, you broken the law and have an illegal gun. In fact, you can be charged in Federal court because you involved more than one state.


22 posted on 04/11/2012 7:28:05 PM PDT by cumbo78
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To: backwoods-engineer

NYC crime statistics for 2009 :
Violent crime rate 28.5 % above the National Average
Property Crime rate 44.3 % below the National Average

Charlotte Mecklenburg crime staistics for 2009
Violent crime rate 68.3 5% above the National Average
Property crime rate 64.8 % above the National Average


23 posted on 04/13/2012 8:42:20 AM PDT by cumbo78
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