Skip to comments.(Vanity) Proceeding with a third party
Posted on 04/10/2012 4:52:33 PM PDT by Cato in PA
So its come to this.
Rick Santorum dropped out of the race earlier today, which leaves Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, and Ron Paul in the running. By any reasonable estimate, Paul still doesnt stand a chance and Newt wont mount a serious challenge barring divine intervention.
Were left with Willard Romney the open socialist, who stands against everything we believe in as conservatives. There are many among us who refuse to vote for him. We who feel this way must unite behind a third party if were going to accomplish anything. If we dont, were no better than the party-line Republicans who cry about the need for change but do nothing about it.
JimRob hasn't called for a third party, and that's fine. I'm certainly not criticizing him. But if he won't, I will.
Id like to take a moment now to quash any lingering doubts you may have about the necessity or wisdom of doing this in case you've somehow missed my other posts.
1) We know Obama is a Marxist. Hell do bad stuff. Romney is a political weatherwane! Theres a *chance* that he might do good.
Wrong. Romneys conservatism is 100% rhetoric. If you want to know what the man stands for, look at his record. He ran to the left of Ted Kennedy in 1994 and lost. He governed Massachusetts as a far-left radical, even going so far as to sign socialized medicine into law, a decision he defends to this day. He also defends the bailouts.
HE ADMITTED THAT HE IS A PROGRESSIVE. The vast majority of his judicial picks were far-left judicial activists. He lobbied Obama to adopt the individual mandate on a national level as late as 2009.
Nothing about Romneys record could even cast him as a moderate. He'll do nothing to stop our economic collapse, and with him at the helm, the Republicans will take the blame. You thought 2008 was bad? Just wait until 2014. How do you think President Jellyfish would stand up to a Democrat-controlled Congress?
2) Okay, so Romney is a liberal. But he and the other Repubs will HAVE to listen if we elect a Republican president!
Wrong. Weve fallen for this ruse time and time again. Even the historic Republican victory in 2010 didnt work in our favor; we got Crybaby Boehner and Moderate McConnell, who refuse to listen to us even when a Democrat president is in the White House.
Why would they suddenly toughen up on liberalism if we replaced a liberal Democrat with a liberal Republican?
3) No, no, we have to change the Republican party from within!
How many years have we heard this? How well has it worked out? Will it EVER work out? No, because the Rockefeller wing holds the reins of power and will never let them go.
Even after a historic Tea Party victory in 2010, nothing has changed. If that wont change anything, then how else can we achieve change at the voting booth?
4) But this is an election year, the WORST time to start a third party.
There will never be a good time. Most people dont pay attention to politics in off-years, so wed probably be ignored if we waited. If we do it during an election year, yes, were going to split the vote in certain cases.
Nobody ever said that change would be easy, but its necessary. If we do nothing, well be no better than the Mittwits.
We need to strike while the iron is hot so well get exposure. If we can get exposure, we can make progress. As difficult a fight as this will be, the only other option, trying to change the GOP from within, is a proven failure.
5) I think youre just a sore loser. You need to compromise and accept Romney even if hes not your perfect pick!
This isnt about purity; this is about principle. Part of politics involves compromise, which is why Ive said over and over again that Id vote for Santorum or Gingrich. Paul never really had a chance, so the question doesnt apply to him.
But part of compromise is having enough -principle- to know compromise becomes caving. And you know what? There are certain things that arent worth compromising over, like supporting an open socialist. These are the sort of distinctions that party-line Republicans are incapable of making. Theyve pulled the GOP lever all their lives, and they just cant imagine doing otherwise.
6) A vote against Romney is a vote for Obama.
Wrong. A vote for a third-party candidate is a vote for change in the only means still available to us: rebellion. Weve tried to get the establishment to listen to us for so many years, but our concerns have fallen on deaf ears.
Your continued support will only result in more of the same. You dont stop someone from abusing you in a relationship by staying with them if you can't resolve your differences; you leave.
7) It will be YOUR fault if we have another 4 years of Obama!
Dead wrong. If you want to blame someone for Obamas re-election, blame the establishment for backing a far-left radical who has sharply divided the GOP and destroyed voter enthusiasm nationwide. Turnout is abysmal and Willard looks even worse in the polls than John McCain did.
The GOP base has basically already given up. Its like 2008 but worse. If you want to vote for the person responsible for that, be my guest.
Now...we can talk about how angry we are, or we can do something about it. Lets start throwing some ideas around for how to proceed if the inevitable turns out to be true and Romney is the GOP nominee.
Should we try to create a new third party? Would an existing third party suffice? Lets discuss.
I thought we had a real chance to change the GOP after the 2010 elections, but then the empire struck back. I’m done with them.
So what is your plan to get even one electoral vote when you can’t even win the Republican party nomination?
You have to get more than 50% of a state to get an electoral vote.
I call BS. Calling Mitt a socialist is a falsehood. A third party is a recipe for 4 more years of Obama.
Shame on you.
I don’t know about anybody else, but I don’t find it at all suspicious that somebody who joined in October of 2011 is now telling us all to avoid voting for the Republican nominee.
Nope, definitely not an Obama plant. Nothing to see here.
I would agree with you. There is no need to paint lipstick on the corpse of a useless political party. Let it go under and let the American conservatives unite behind a party that represents them. It’s our only hope.
I understand the sentiment. I feel your pain. But many many mistakes and many false connections of dots in your analysis - and you forget the main point: third parties are like virgins. Once they are consummated, they are no longer pure either.
And another point: there are many folks still in the party who hate the party establishment just as much as you do.
Considering that there is no one else really still out there, why don’t we start working on a strategy to put Mittens in a corner where he has to do the conservative thing just to stay in the race. It would be a great object lesson for the Congressional “princes” of the GOP to find out what it’s like to be out of funds until they move hard to the right. Don’t just defund the GOP, contact candidates and demand specific positions as a condition of contribution.
The GOP has never had enough “big donors” to do it alone.
Third party is simply saying we want Obama to be Dictator for Life.
"Thank you, sir, may I have another!"
Maybe the "Falcon Party" is still active and taking members. I think they are on the ballot in 3 and a half counties in Missouri for President. Time to let Pissant back onto FR to lead the movement.
Then find a candidate that is not a crazy uncle and win some elections!
bingo. but hey, 0bama and Mitt are indistinguishable, right? I read it here. might as well concede and give barky 4 more.
Get more votes than the two socialists.
You have to get more than 50% of a state to get an electoral vote.
No you don't.
I call BS. Calling Mitt a socialist is a falsehood.
I guess we all just imagined the socialist program he pushed through in Massachusetts. /s
A third party is a recipe for 4 more years of Obama.
The Republicans already cooked up a batch of Obama for 2012.
So, now, all bets are off.
Shame on you.
No, shame on you for being motivated by fear instead of principle.
Absolutely! But first we have to escape from the Grand Old Plantation. Let the damned party die on the vine. Then maybe the grand poobahs in the NYC-DC corridor might wake up.
Screw the GOP.
Writing in Palin or JimRob. I’ll be able to look myself in the mirror, either way
Not going to try to talk you out of it since people, predictably, throw this idea out every 4 years, but I can assure you that a 3rd party vote will amount to nothing. Your opportunity to push conservatism is within one of the 2 party's. We have been quite successful at that within the GOP at the local and state level, at the national level not so much yet. That is mostly because there simply wasn't a compelling conservative with staying power that could challenge the establishment's hug-the-middle choice (which they will make every time). All this 3rd party talk will come to nothing. You will join about 1% of the population who cast protest votes for the Greens, Libertarians, Constitution Party, etc, etc, etc. No one will notice, care or remember.
“Should we try to create a new third party? Would an existing third party suffice? Lets discuss.”
The actual goal should be to create a 2nd party to oppose the Demcoms- essentially replacing the Republicans with a new party and forcing people like Romney to join the Democrats where they belong.
Romney is a loser and the GOP has squandered all the inertia and enthusiasm of the Tea Party movement so that they can hold their Party power. They can shove their Massachusetts liberal candidate.
Sign me up. I know who romney is. I will never, never support him. The GOP no longer exists to me.
That’s what an alarming number of people seem to be saying.
In the absolute worst case (a ridiculously improbable situation), Romney is no better than Obama. It’s impossible for him to be worse. A more realistic situation is that Romney governs like the moderate he really is, which would be a MASSIVE improvement over what we have.
What I don’t understand is the prevalence of stage one thinking around there. I hear things like “the Republicans are just driving the car off the cliff at 20 MPH instead of 100 MPH.” Well, suppose that’s true. If it’s either driving off at 100 or driving off at 20 (reverse is simply not an option right now) then why would anybody in their right mind not pick the better of the two options?
I can’t imagine anyone wanting to run 3rd party and take the heat for re-electing Hussein. Because that is what they would be doing.
Better to start now building a credible party that can win in the future, do better than this years offerings, or else, just stay home and enjoy Barack and his czars for another 4. Only thing is that conservatives won’t ever win again, if they do, they will be just like the British style conservative. So why bother?
pushing a Perot and we'll get another 4 messiah years....
Romney is not my choice, nor a lot of peoples, but he is the choice of all the states so far and he has a huge delegate count....
maybe people better start dreaming up another 4 yrs of bamey on the flag and consider that Romney on his worse day, is at least a patriot, a businessman, and a man who won't kill off the coal and oil industry, nix pipelines,have racist in key govt positions,or have an arrogant wife running around vacationing to the tune of millions of OUR money each year....
when you think of voting 3rd party, just conjure up that American flag with bamey's mug on it....we're just seeing an inkling of what he is capable of doing...
LOL. People ALWAYS say this. Try to run a political novice against a polished, skilled politician and see what happens almost every time. And the bigger the office, the more difficult it is for the novice. There is a reason successful politicians generally start out at the very local level and work their way up. Like it or not, politics is a skill. People get better at it. It isn't enough to be right to win elections. If it were, we wouldn't be 16 trillion in debt, have 8.2% unemployment, have gas approaching 5 bucks a gallon, etc. The "regular" non-politician guy/girl is going to get steamrolled almost every single time - and not just here in the US, this is true the world over.
a good GOTV 2010 down ticket Tea Party result will stop him if he plays the Massachusetts politics garbage. Hopefully, more here on FR will realize that. He's no Reagan but could mature in that direction. 'Tis all we got. The alternative is unthinkable. Unless you want reparations, flash mob robs and the occasional jihadi bombing at your malls and churches to become the "new reality" along with pork and beans. Oh, and taxes and the ghey agenda and global warming and green energy and super high gas prices and an unsupportable national debt.......
“If its either driving off at 100 or driving off at 20 (reverse is simply not an option right now) then why would anybody in their right mind not pick the better of the two options?”
For me, it’s because that is the exact same logic that got us to where we are.
I think our Founders would be shaking their heads in disgust to hear things like:
He’ll support abortion slightly less than the other one or
He’ll take fewer of our weapons away or
He thinks gay marriage is OK because...
That is the logic that took us from George Washington to The Won - IMHO.
A third party will do for Obama what Ralph Nader did for George Bush. If you can’t convince a majority of the Republican voters to see it your way, you will never convince a majority of all the voters.
Count me out.
There are still candidates in both camps who agree with what you want more than you know.
1992 presidential candidacy
Main article: Ross Perot presidential campaign, 1992
On February 20, 1992, he appeared on CNN’s Larry King Live and announced his intention to run as an independent if his supporters could get his name on the ballot in all fifty states. With such declared policies as balancing the federal budget, a firm pro-choice stance on abortion, expansion of the war on drugs, ending outsourcing of jobs, support for gun control, belief in protectionism on trade, advocating the Environmental Protection Agency and enacting electronic direct democracy via “electronic town halls,” he became a potential candidate and soon polled roughly even with the two major party candidates.
Perot’s candidacy received increasing media attention when the competitive phase of the primary season ended for the two major parties. With the insurgent candidacies of Republican Pat Buchanan and Democrat Jerry Brown winding down, Perot was the natural beneficiary of populist resentment toward establishment politicians. On May 25, 1992 he was featured on the cover of Time Magazine with the title “Waiting for Perot,” an allusion to Samuel Beckett’s play Waiting for Godot.
Several months before the Democratic and Republican conventions, Perot filled the vacuum of election news, as his supporters began petition drives to get him on the ballot in all fifty states. This sense of momentum was reinforced when Perot employed two savvy campaign managers in Democrat Hamilton Jordan and Republican Ed Rollins. In July, while Perot was pondering whether to run for office, his supporters established a campaign organization United We Stand America. Perot was late in making formal policy proposals, but most of what he did call for were intended to reduce the deficit. He wanted a gasoline tax increase and some cutbacks of Social Security.
By the summer Perot commanded a lead in the presidential race with thirty-nine percent of the vote. By mid-July, the Washington Post reported that Perot’s campaign managers were becoming increasingly disillusioned by his unwillingness to follow their advice to be more specific on issues, and his need to be in full control of operations with such tactics as forcing volunteers to sign loyalty oaths. Perot’s poll numbers began to slip to 25%, and his advisers warned that if he continued to ignore them, he would fall into single digits. Co-manager Hamilton Jordan threatened to quit, and on July 15, Ed Rollins resigned after Perot fired advertisement specialist Hal Riney, who worked with Rollins on the Reagan campaign. Rollins would later claim that a member of the campaign accused him of being a Bush plant with ties to the CIA. Amidst the chaos, Perot’s support fell to 20%. The next day, Perot announced on Larry King Live that he would not seek the presidency. He explained that he did not want the House of Representatives to decide the election if the result caused the electoral college to be split. Perot eventually stated the reason was that he received threats that digitally altered photographs would be released by the Bush campaign to sabotage his daughter’s wedding. Regardless of the reasons for withdrawing, his reputation was badly damaged. Many of his supporters felt betrayed and public opinion polls would subsequently show a large negative view of Perot that was absent prior to his decision to end the campaign.
In September he qualified for all fifty state ballots.
I agree. I used to live in Ron Paul’s district. There were some not-so-nice people who were all for RP, but had problems with their medication. I eventually returned to the (R) party after being a member of the (L)(non-drug faction) for years.
More evidence that Newt is liberal:
“Newt Gingrichs check bounced.
“Utah Elections Director Mark Thomas said a designated agent for the Gingrich campaign brought the filing papers and a check for $500 in March, but the state was notified by the bank that the check had bounced.”
Read my post again. I never said this was about purity; this is drawing a line in the sand that we won’t cross no matter what. I would have been perfectly fine voting for Rick Santorum because I believe he’s a true social conservative, just as I would have been fine voting for Newt Gingrich because I believe he’s a fiscal conservative due to his flat tax plan.
The party-line Republicans who claim hate the establishment will never lift a finger against them.
After Obama gets defeated then is the time for third party action. Now all it could do is assure his election. If that happens a third party..any party but the Communist Party will be impossible.
lol I agree with you 100%.. and I find the number of “I’m going third party, I will never vote for anyone but my handpicked candidate” posts suspicious.
Actually, "I" and a lot of other folks like me have been saying it since 1969.
I held my nose and voted against somebody in every election except for Ronald Reagan and G.W. Bush's 1st term.
I am sick of it.
Romney wasn’t forced on us.
We voted for him. We contributed to him. We worked for him. He got the delegates. He won the nomination.
To assert that Romney was forced on us is a lie.
Who’s this “we” you’re talking about?
I think the line in the sand that we should draw is “Don’t let Obama win.”
That would be ‘We Republicans who support candidates in the Primaries and Caucuses.”
That sure don’t say much for the voting citizens...the chumps.
Romney/Palin might work.
NO CULTISTS IN THE WHITE HOUSE
Read my post. I don’t HAVE a “handpicked candidate.”
The only people who suffer are us.
The GOP has been pushing moderates since before I was allowed to vote. They’ve lost as much as they’ve won. Do they learn? Of course not.
We, however, suffer the consequences of hard-left governance.
Newt is essentially the 3rd party candidate — unless you’re a member of the moral vanity brigade.
What you don't seem to understand is that Romney is simply not an option. What would you do if somebody tried to force you to vote for either: Obama, or Reid, or Pelosi? Would you actually vote for one of those scoundrels for POTUS in the name of doing the least harm?
If the GOP-e pushes the Romney nomination down our throats, it guarantees a third party movement, and that's on them.