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Posted on 04/11/2012 8:04:00 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
Notice: Free Republic has been in full rebellion mode since 2008 and will remain in full rebellion mode for the duration!
No more Doles!! No more McCains!! No more RINOS!!
NO ROMNEY!!
Those who cannot stomach rebellion might as well start looking for a new home on the net!!
Those who have ignored my hundreds of posts on this crucial issue or who have doubted me these last three or four years might as well get used to it. FR will never support the abortionist, homosexualist, socialist, mandate loving, constitution trampling liar Mitt Romney.
In case you haven't noticed, a TEA Party rebellion is on and Free Republic signed on years ago. There is no turning back. No more crap from the GOP-e!! They've screwed us for the last time!! Karl Rove and Mitt Romney, et al, loathe conservatism and loathe the tea party and took it upon themselves to use their money and connections to destroy nearly every one of our conservative tea party candidates while pushing their big government RINOS. That makes them the enemy. I will not reward that betrayal by giving them my support or my vote.
FR is and will remain a pro-life, pro-limited government conservative site!!
We are beholden to NO ONE!! We bow to no kings!! We bow to NO RINOS!!
I'd rather fight and die like a man than bend over and be screwed by a RINO!! I refuse to kiss Karl Rove or Mitt Romney's rings!! They can kiss my rosy red ass instead!!
FUMR!! FUGOP!!
Long live the rebellion!!
Hope my message is clear.
Supposedly Conservatives are the biggest ideology in the country.
So how come we have little to no representation in our government? :(
I’ve studied propaganda techniques since the late 90s and these posters are bringing out some good ones.
Too few recognize or know what's being used on them or being done to them.
Bed time. C ya l8r.
Oh, so YOU get to choose what “namecalling” is, right?
We’ve been in the No Bama, No ROMNEY mode ever since these two abortionist/socialist bastards got involved in presidential campaigning. Where have you been?
In my last four posts I’ve shown more political expertise than you have in twelve years of posting. Who is really the noob here?!
Like I said, if you think you could do a better job, be my guest! It’s a little bit more stressful than holding signs and calling prospective voters my friend! I have $48K in student loans with two undergrads and a masters degree making $42K a year dealing with people constantly telling me they have this magic way that Newt can win. It’s never that simple. Nothing ever is.
I’ll forward you contact information if you think you can do better.
Not wasting my breath.
No problem. If you change your mind and do wish to discuss your point with me, please do.
thanks.
“You did no such thing. But then anyone willing to vote for Romney cannot be expected to tell the truth.”
________________________________________________
Hey, Norm... I thought about 3 posting ago you said you were going to bed? I guess you just had to stay awake a little longer to call Artcore a liar.
You’re sad, Norm. Go to bed.
PFL
“Oh, so YOU get to choose what “namecalling” is, right?”
______________________________________________________
Oh no... since I do not resort to name-calling, I’ll gladly defer to your expertise on the subject.
I keep hearing vote local, state, all for conservatives. But I bet 80- 90% of those people will endorse the GOP candidate who will be Romney over Obama. So do we then throw them out to and let the Dems take over everything? Because that seems the logical conclusion. How can I vote for all of these unprincipled people if they endorse Romney? Or does endorsing Romney immediately convert you to a RINO, despite your life's work as a Conservative?
You’re wanting to go off the cliff at 70 instead of 100. You aren’t even wanting to slam on the brakes which is what’s needed.
With all due respect you just described the GOP I know and hate. They have been heading 70mph instead of 100 and that won’t change no matter who we elect. I have said that for years and I have always been an optimist. Truthfully, we are screwed. If Newt were elected and he cut entitlement spending even 10% he would be voted out in 4 years. The mid-term election would see the GOP massacred just like the rats took it on the chin in 2010. That is the country we live in.
I don’t trust Mitt Romney and doubt that he is a conservative. I also believe that we have only seen glimpses of what Obama would become with a second term and it is an indisputable fact that he will probably nominate at least one SCOTUS Justice if not three. This President has been a complete disaster in every area of executive responsibility.
I have 3 young children and despite my pessimistic attitude about the direction of our nation it is my obligation as their father to try and exert the only realistic influence I have to make things better for them. I can do this by pragmatically choosing the lesser of two evils with the sincere hope that we may preserve the slim 5-4 majority in SCOTUS that we now rely on to thwart the progressives (including many in the GOP-e).
Let me lay out three examples for you -
DC vs Heller - 2nd Amendment 2008 - we won 5-4 - our right to own firearms for purposes of defense was decided by one vote
Casey vs Planned Parenthood 1992 - we lost the issue of abortion 5-4 - a blight on our nation
Gonzalez vs Carhart - Partial Birth Abortion 2007 - we won 5-4 to uphold a law against this sickness
Assuming that Romney even appointed moderate Judges like Kennedy - that would be light years beyond another Kagan type Judge
Obamacare - the largest power grab attempt by the Federal government since the New Deal is possibly going to be decided 5-4
Here are some examples of issues that will probably be in court if Obama gets another 4 years and all of us could probably add additional issues and these are not trivial -
The Fairness Doctrine - the biggest attack on the 1st Amendment in our nations history.... lose that and say goodbye to this website. The left really wants this.
The EPA and Environmental Fascism - Obama has already shown he will use government agencies to promote fascism in the name of climate change - the major obstacle? It’s not the voters and it’s not the GOP... it’s the courts. Think it’s bad that the government can tell us what lightbulbs to use? Just wait until they get the 5th vote!
Private 401k’s, IRA’s, and retirement funds - the left is already talking about the government taking over these funds “to manage them”. We will all work for government if they do this and right now it is probably a 5-4 vote. I believe this administration would consider nationalizing the banks far beyond what they already have... why not? Government motors anyone?
Obamacare - if he loses it (I think he will) they will go to work on another version and the court will be more favorable the next time.
These are some of the reasons I will vote against Obama for the sake of my children. SCOTUS provides the ultimate veto for unconstitutional behavior by government and it is one heartbeat away from being changed forever.
Our founders were pragmatic men who understood how fragile our republic would be. I have studied them quite a bit recently and have an even larger appreciation of their vision when they wrote the constitution. The only thing that is currently saving us is not the GOP... it’s the courts.
Furthermore, I believe our economy is not bulletproof and it could collapse if we do not get control of our progressive spending. If this happens, it is the courts that might determine the limits of executive branch authority. Our freedom may come down to one vote.
It’s nice to say you are an “all or nothing conservative” but that does not reflect reality. Like it or not.... there are two choices. Reasoned debate is the cornerstone of conservatism because our ideas are correct and that is what this community should reflect. All of these unkind comments against other FReepers for facing reality with reason and concern for our nation do not promote the kind of healthy debate I came to this site for many years ago.
I would love to have the perfect Conservative candidate who could convince half our nation that wealth redistribution is evil and leads to fascism. I would love to run my car on unicorn farts and pixie dust too. Our hopes and dreams are often shattered by reality. Face it, half our nation are already wards of the state. When the boomers all retire that number will climb even further.
All this belief that a conservative on a white horse will save us is not going to happen FRiend. Sorry, that is just my opinion, but I believe it is a reasoned and logical observation given our current circumstances. I don’t believe Washington, Adams, Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln, and Reagan rolled into one could convince our fellow citizens of the need to sacrifice for the sake of future generations.
I don’t like it. I don’t feel good about it. I don’t want it to be that way. I am so convinced that our difficulties will get much worse that I sold a beautiful home in the city and moved out to the country to start a hobby farm for my family. I wanted to be prepared to care for them if our illusion of America shatters. I want my young children to learn how to garden, tend livestock, and survive without the things we take for granted. I pray we won’t have to, but I felt like it was my duty as their father. I bust my butt working long hours and make the longer drive home to bust my butt building a hobby farm. It has not been easy, but I am glad we did it. That is the choice my wife and I made examining the reality of our national situation.
You are free to choose but don’t call me names for doing the same. I believe that freedom hangs by one Supreme Court vote right now. Not many Americans before me could say that. We are in deep trouble and it will take generations to fix. I fear that too many of our fellow citizens don’t have the guts to make the hard choices so our politicians in both parties will just keep smiling and telling us that everything is alright. Romney will probably do the same, but I know Obama will definitely do that and make it worse.
Vote for whomever you choose. I should be free to share my reasoning with this community to uphold the principles of conservatism as I see it. Me and Jim Robinson will be dead and gone when my children have to live with the consequences of the decisions we make today.
Don’t even bother to call me a romneybott. Don’t bother to try and convince me that Romney is just as bad as Obama. I won’t be bullied because I care more about my kids than a bunch of groupthink on a web forum. I shared a reasoned opinion with you and it deserves more than name calling. If I get banned for voting anyone but Obama... so be it. I wish all of you luck and God bless. Choose wisely, my children are counting on you!
I will assure you that NO FREEPER has yet cast a Vote for Romney in the Primaries. In fact, NO FREEPER will Vote for Romney in the remaining Primary Elections even if he is the only Republican on the Ballot.
If I am wrong, then I will resign my FReeper Commission.
Since NO FREEPER has yet Voted for Romney, what is point of this thread? By the time November rolls around, some here who would never Vote for Romney might have a change of heart when Obama goes one step too far. Everyone has their limit.
By the same token, those here that say they will Vote for Romney against Obama may choose not to by the time November rolls around. Who knows?
Full disclosure, I am one of those who follows the Mark Levin rule of "Anybody But Obama". Again, I have many months to reconsider my choice, unless this thread is the beginning of a Purge. If so, Jim can do what he feels is best for Free Republic. It looks to me that FReepers are at a stalemate on this issue and Jim is the deciding Vote. Those that disagree with Jim can take their Opinions and Donations to another site once an ACTUAL Vote for Romney has occurred this November. Doing so beforehand is self defeating for this Forum IMHO. This is turning into the Hatfields and McCoys, or should I say the Martins and the Zimmermans?
Both sides seem to be wasting their time trying to convince the other side, but I thought this site was here to discuss the issues, not follow one “group think” train of thought until the bitter end. If that was the case, there would be no point to it.
It's late and I apologize for rambling on. As they say, just my .02...
Excellent post, agree 100%!
“I can do this by pragmatically choosing the lesser of two evils”
So, to rephrase this, you choose to vote for evil. The road is wide....
Best post of the whole thread! Bravo!
Did Newt drop out? I didn't get the memo.
I don’t want to hear $h1t about giving the election to Obama from the same SOBs who wanted us to get behind Crist, Castle, and Scozafava.
They had their chance to make common cause with the REAL Americans. Now let them eat what falls from the democrat’s table while we feast on their asses!
My thoughts, exactly.
Jim,
Please re-read my post, I don’t advocate for Romney at all. I advocate for whoever runs against Obama. We are simply in the same position as 2008 again. It is Obama or the GOP guy, whoever he eventually is. That is all... btw I was whiterhino before the acronym rhino was popular. I dislike political rhinos extremely.
No, we are not oblivious to that. We know better than anyone, you included, that we are going to be shafted, robbed, killed like everyone else. If you want to draw a distinction, here it is: the boot-lickers and compromisers deserve it. We don't.
Wow, name calling now?
Please re-read my post, I don’t advocate for Romney at all. I advocate for whoever runs against Obama. We are simply in the same position as 2008 again. It is Obama or the GOP guy, whoever he eventually is. That is all... btw I was whiterhino before the acronym rhino was popular. I dislike political rhinos extremely.
I will pass out flyers for Mitt if he is the nominee.
I will pass out flyers for Jimmy Carter if he wins the GOP nomination!
SCOTUS! You have possibly given the only possible rationale for voting for Romney the RINO with this major caveat:
The seats of Ginsberg and Breyer, the most likely to go are liberal anyway. What guarantee do we have that Romney would nominate a true Constitutional conservative to the court? What kind of judges did he appoint in Mass? Do we have any idea what Romney’s judicial philosophy is?
May your chains rest lightly....
I’d rather fight the tyrants, than reward professional Republicans for maneuvering me into a corner.
Wouldn’t doubt it. Proving that RINOS are worthless.
SCOTUS! You have possibly given the only possible rationale for voting for Romney the RINO with this major caveat:
...Do we have any idea what Romney’s judicial philosophy is?
I’m afraid we do, and it’s not good.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2868227/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2868226/posts
One of the ways we could see absolutely no difference between Romney and Obama.
“I can do this by pragmatically choosing the lesser of two evils”
So, to rephrase this, you choose to vote for evil. The road is wide....
The question of the thread right here. Moral absolutist or moral objectivist?
The absolutists won’t vote. The objectivists will vote against Obama.
I am a moral objectivist. Life often requires us to make choices where there is no right answer. Yes, I try to choose the lesser of two evils and I thank God every day that his grace washes over me.
I don’t see pragmatism as rebellion. I also see nothing wrong in trying to convince people that staying home if one does not get their ideal candidate, especially with what we have on the line, is a “rebellion.
Since it is your forum you certainly can call the shots and terminate anyone who thinks differently then do you. But wouldn’t that be doing exactly what the Left does?
What guarantee do we have that Romney would nominate a true Constitutional conservative to the court? What kind of judges did he appoint in Mass? Do we have any idea what Romney’s judicial philosophy is?
No guarantees. However, it could’nt be worse than Kagan and the “wise latina.”
Romney’s court appointments were disappointing in Massachusetts. Then again, unlike a one paragraph rant on FR, he had to get his appointments through the state legislature that was very liberal. I have not taken the time to research all of his appointments, nor do I feel compelled to do so.
I know what Obama will appoint. I suspect Romney will appoint someone closer to Justice Kennedy than Justice Scalia. Like I said above.... the fact that Kennedy still has a heartbeat is the only thing that saved the 2nd Amendment in the Heller vs DC case. It was that close. Much to my surprise, I think SCOTUS even went beyond what many of us hoped for in upholding our right to own firearms.
We are 100% certain who Obama will appoint. We can at least hope for something better if we defeat Obama. The value of that single vote has never been more important in my opinion.
AMEN !
I never said anyone should stay home. I said they should turnout no matter what and vote straight conservative. NO RINOS!! Especially not known abortionist/socialist RINOS!!
Eff the LEFT, including ROMNEY!!
Mr. Politician, I am a Freeper. My vote must be earned by past conservative performance.
I know Obama supports partial birth abortion. I know there is a chance Romney won’t. I know Obama will nominate Justices that support abortion. I know there is a chance that Romney won’t. One is probably the most radical abortionist President in history. One has the muddled record typical of a New England Republican, but he will still be constrained by a political party that sides with life.
That is enough for me and frankly it does not seem like a difficult decision.
I won’t walk that wide road with you. I’ll take the narrow road.
May your chains rest lightly....
I’d rather fight the tyrants, than reward professional Republicans for maneuvering me into a corner.
I could care less about the GOP. I am voting for my children. My children don’t know anything about political parties and my anger at the GOP right now pales in comparison to the betrayal they will feel towards you and I when SCOTUS starts knocking down what little remains of our constitution.
Regardless, it’s your choice and best of luck to you.
Amen and amen!
I agree, with you and with Jim. To take the argument to a slightly different dimension, let’s look at a hypothetical situation in an attempt to clarify and exemplify the current choices in front of us:
Let’s say you lived in a Nazi state and faced a government-elite-controlled election where you had a choice to re-elect Hitler, or an alternative candidate (to use a random name another poster stated earlier on this thread), Mittler.
Hitler and Mittler are the only two candidates which an authoritarian state apparatus has allowed to run in the said election. Hitler openly advocates murdering all Jews in his manifesto. Mittler says that this is extreme, and advocates instead murdering only 70% of Jews, the remainder being allowed to continue to exist in ghettos.
One line of rational thought advocates voting for Mittler: in so doing, they say, we save the lives of 30% of the Jewish population whose deaths are otherwise inevitable. It’s the lesser of two evils, and there are no other candidates who have been permitted to run. Mittler may, in the long run, be susceptible to some amount of reason and persuasion. We all know Hitler isn’t.
These people ignore the fact that in meekly voting for one of these candidates which the state has selected for you, you are effectively validating such a contest and accepting this political status quo. In voting for Mittler, you also become personally morally complicit in the deaths of 70% of the Jewish population which follows. When he then acts according to these pre-stated aims, he has reasonable cause to claim that he is acting with your knowledge and support.
The morally correct option in such a situation in surely to act as Hans and Sophie Scholl did in 1943: (a) flatly refuse to take part in such a process and (b) fight to overturn such a corrupt and evil system from within, encouraging others to do likewise, irrespective of any cost to yourself or off the odds of success.
I am not, I should stress, equating either Obama or Romney to Hitler, however much I may dislike their beliefs or policies. But I do believe such an allegory stands as theoretically valid on a moral basis.
It’s your decision. I believe the choices could not be more clear on the issue of abortion. The parties have enormous influence over court nominations. One party is pro-death. One party is pro-life, but wobbling.
One party has shown they will Bork a candidate they don’t like. One party has shown they will practice bi-partisanship and approve the other parties nominees.
This does not seem to be a difficult decision, nor does there seem to be a true moral equivalency between Obama/DNC and Romney/GOP on the issue of abortion.
The day after the November election is soon enough to abandon the Republican Party. Some of us still have primaries ahead and Romney has not won yet.
Our fellow Americans have proven that they’re dumb enough to lead (try to lead) us down the path toward a Romney nomination. However, as Conservatives, we don’t leave our mentally challenged brothers and sisters at the mercy of their own choices; we protect them.
Where Republicans voted in 2008, we won new offices. Where they voted in 2010, we won majorities.
Not only did we have fewer Republican victories in those races where Conservatives didn’t vote, the races were decided by the least knowledgeable among us or by the Dems.
And we got Obama and Holder, who refuse to follow, McGee less defend, the law.
When Conservatives decide not to vote for Republican candidates, Republicans lose. Conservatives lose. The Democrats, socialists, and athiests win.
“It’s your decision.”
Indeed it is. I won’t climb in your hand basket.
Not abandoning the party... yet. Just the RINOS!
The liberties of our Country, the freedom of our civil constitution are worth defending at all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have receiv'd them as a fair Inheritance from our worthy Ancestors: They purchas'd them for us with toil and danger and expence of treasure and blood; and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightned as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle; or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. Of the latter we are in most danger at present: Let us therefore be aware of it. Let us contemplate our forefathers and posterity; and resolve to maintain the rights bequeath'd to us from the former, for the sake of the latter. - Instead of sitting down satisfied with the efforts we have already made, which is the wish of our enemies, the necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude and perseverance. Let us remember, that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom." It is a very serious consideration, which should deeply impress our minds, that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers in the event.
CANDIDUS.[Samuel Adams]. Boston Gazette, October 14, 1771
The difference is that Romney is not saying that. He is saying that he has had a change of heart.
How I wish we had spent the last 3 years holding McCain to his promises rather than watching O keep his.
If Obama had an identical twin (in the flesh as well as thought, word and deed) running as the GOP candidate, would you still vote for him?
Romney and Obama, both are tools of wrath. Which one will God use?
Romans 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
We can vote for whoever we like. I’m writing in Palin if Newt fails. You can join me or it’s your fault if Obama is elected. See how that works?
If you have faith in God, you only have to be wise and honest:
Let us raise a standard to which the wise and the honest can repair. The event is in the hand of God.
- George Washington
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