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What If the Government Rejects the Constitution?
Townhall.com ^ | April 12, 2012 | Judge Andrew Napolitano

Posted on 04/12/2012 7:14:38 AM PDT by Kaslin

What if the government never took the Constitution seriously? What if the same generation -- in some cases the same human beings -- that wrote in the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech," also enacted the Alien and Sedition Acts, which made it a crime to criticize the government? What if the feds don't regard the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land?

What if the government regards the Constitution as merely a guideline to be referred to from time to time, or a myth to be foisted upon the voters, but not as a historic delegation of power that lawfully limits the federal government? What if Congress knows that most of what it regulates puts it outside the confines of the Constitution, but it does whatever it can get away with? What if the feds don't think that the Constitution was written to keep them off the people's backs?

What if there's no substantial difference between the two major political parties? What if the same political mentality that gave us the Patriot Act, with its federal agent-written search warrants that permit unconstitutional spying on us, also gave us Obamacare, with its mandate to buy health insurance, even if we don't want or need it? What if both political parties love power more than freedom? What if both parties have used the Commerce Clause in the Constitution to stretch the power of the federal government far beyond its constitutionally ordained boundaries and well beyond the plain meaning of words?

What if both parties love war because the public is more docile during war and permits higher taxes and more federal theft of freedom from individuals and power from the states? What if none of these recent wars has made us freer or safer, but just poorer?

What if Congress bribed the states with cash in return for their enacting legislation that Congress likes, but cannot lawfully enact? What if Congress went to all states in the union and offered them cash to repave their interstate highways, if the states only lowered their speed limits? What if the states took that deal? What if the Supreme Court approved this bribery and then Congress did it again and again? What if this bribery were a way for Congress to get around the few constitutional limitations that Congress acknowledges?

What if Congress believes that it can spend tax dollars on anything it pleases and tie any strings it wants to that spending? What if Congress uses its taxing and spending power to regulate anything it wants to control, whether authorized by the Constitution or not? What if anyone other than members of Congress offered state legislatures cash in return for favorable legislation? What if Congress wrote laws that let it break laws that ordinary people would be prosecuted for breaking?

What if the Declaration of Independence says that the government derives its powers from the consent of the governed? What if the government claims to derive powers from some other source that it will not -- because it cannot -- name? What if we never gave the government the power to spy on us, to print worthless cash, to kill in our names, to force us to buy health insurance or to waste our money by telling us that exercise is good and sugar is bad?

What if we never gave the government the power to bribe the poor with welfare or the middle class with tax breaks or the rich with bailouts or the states with cash? What if we don't consent to what has become of the government? What if the Constitution has been tacitly amended by the consent of both political parties, whereby instead of ratifying amendments, all three branches of government merely look the other way when the government violates the Constitution? What if the president cannot constitutionally bomb whatever country he wants? What if the Congress cannot constitutionally exempt its members from the laws that govern the rest of us? What if the courts cannot constitutionally invent a right to kill babies in the womb?

What if the federal government is out of control, no matter which party controls it? What if there is only harmony on Capitol Hill when government is growing and personal liberty is shrinking? What if the presidential race this fall will not be between good and evil, between right and left, between free markets and central planning or even between constitutional government and Big Government; but only about how much bigger Big Government should get?

What if enough is enough? What do we do about it? What if it's too late?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: 2012; absolutedespotism; banglist; barackobama; bhofascism; bloodoftyrants; congress; constitution; cwii; cwiiping; democrats; donttreadonme; elections; judgesandcourts; liberalfascism; liberals; longtrainofabuses; lping; nobama2012; obama; progressives; reset; socialistdemocrats; tyranny; usurpations; wethepeople
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To: Kaslin

We have ALREADY been destroyed. It has been so subtle, and will become so obviously thorough in the next administration.

The American Treasury has been pillaged. By both sides of the aisle. Our government is literally out of control. There iare no Medicare or Social Security funds remaining . In March it turns out we financed almost 60% of our spending.

Practically speaking, our enemies have vanquished us. There will simply be no way to maintain carrier battle fleets in action, over 150 overseas garrisons,, and maintain peace at home.

Rome learned this the hard way 1600 years ago. Rome died incrementally-the first “sack” occurred in 410....the final in 455 AD.

The first of the USA was, arguably, October 3rd, 2008 with passage of TARP......


101 posted on 04/12/2012 11:39:26 AM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: ctdonath2
Afghanistan. 'nuff said.

You're not seriously comparing our population to theirs? The Afghans have been at each others throats and the throats of their invaders for a thousand years or more. They are seasoned fighters, illiterate, third world savages. They are mostly Muslim and still with all of that hatred and animalism pent up inside of them...how long did it take to run the Russkies out? At what cost? That cost in lives is exactly what we refuse to pay. We're leaving because our people refuse to put up with the cost in lives. This mindset has infected the politics and therein lies our weakness. It has been so since Vietnam. Old General Giap once said something to the effect that we will kill a thousand of theirs for every one of ours that dies and yet they will still win in the long run of attrition. We will only bleed just so much before we cut and run. When I say "WE" I mean our civil population of sheep, not the sheepdogs in the military! But our population has had the guts so bred out of them that once our freedoms are lost they're gone forever because only bloodshed will bring them back and the likes of the Founding Fathers are not to be found here anymore. We've been wussified because we allowed the liberals to infect the schools since the late 1950's.

102 posted on 04/12/2012 11:40:11 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Stand up and be counted... OR LINE UP AND BE NUMBERED...)
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To: Jack Black

“A war of factions, various shady organizations, on the government side, taking action in the dead of night against opponents, using the aparatus of the state to find dissidents and using off-the-books federsal alphabet soup groups to persecute them.

The rebels will use typical rebel tactics, including sabotage and targeted assassinations.

Archy’s a smart guy, he’s thought about this stuff a lot. It’s a really grim picture. To this day many people in South America don’t know what happened to their dad or brother, only that he was taken away by men in black at 11:30 PM on a Tuesday in July and never seen again. “

I agree with this, and find that this viewpoint most reasonably explains the various legal devices being put into place to permit such government wholesale confiscation, imprisonment and murder to be ‘legal.’ The folks putting this enabling legislation/code in place are planning for this, and I suspect DHS is the lynchpin of their gameplan.


103 posted on 04/12/2012 12:20:32 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: Kaslin
Our Constitutions are the instruments of the people, not of the lawyers

"Every word employed in the Constitution is to be expounded in its plain, obvious, and common sense, unless the context furnishes some ground to control, qualify, or enlarge it. Constitutions are not designed for metaphysical or logical subtleties, for niceties of expression, for critical propriety, for elaborate shades of meaning, or for the exercise of philosophical acuteness or judicial research. They are instruments of a practical nature, rounded on the common business of human life, adapted to common wants, designed for common use, and fitted for common understandings. The people make them, the people adopt them, the people must be supposed to read them, with the help of common-sense, and cannot be presumed to admit in them any recondite meaning or any extraordinary gloss."

-- Joseph Story, Constitution (5th ed.) 345, SS 451.


104 posted on 04/12/2012 12:34:09 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
>>Conservative worship of Thomas Jefferson has got to stop.<<

The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time.
-Thomas Jefferson-

He didn't say might be, should be, ought to be, could be...he said MUST be. I'm not advocating for anything.

My point is that the founding fathers knew the corrupt nature of men in power. Thomas Jefferson seems to be saying that blood will be shed once again to preserve liberty.
Reading the writings of our forefathers, it would seem these quotes were divinely inspired.

Am I see this incorrectly y'all?

105 posted on 04/12/2012 12:34:14 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Conservative worship of Thomas Jefferson has got to stop.

I don't worship any man.

But Thomas Jefferson certainly said a whole lot of things I wholeheartedly agree with.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men..."

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever."


106 posted on 04/12/2012 12:43:54 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: Cheburashka

The United States barely resembles the country I remember from 1960s and early 70’s. I don’t have any expectation of it be recognizable in two centuries.


107 posted on 04/12/2012 12:52:29 PM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Little Ray

I was referring to the Soviets and the Americans - the Russkies are gone, and we’re going soon. The cave-dwellers beat us - granted, with some help from outside both times, but still, they are the ones that had to live with hundreds of thousands of foreign troops, shoot them, bomb them, etc.

The bottom line is that an insurgency in this country would overwhelm the military and police - it would be everywhere, and the cost of imposing martial law in large areas would destroy the government, esp. if the gov’t was the target. That is, after all, why the 2nd Amendment exists - to prevent a tryrannical regime from occupying and ruling this nation, whether that regime originates from outside or inside the nation.


108 posted on 04/12/2012 1:01:02 PM PDT by Ancesthntr (Bibi to Odumbo: Its not going to happen.)
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To: Kaslin

109 posted on 04/12/2012 1:02:56 PM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: Little Ray

“The United States barely resembles the country I remember from 1960s and early 70’s.”...

Agreed...The whack radical left is railroading the country staight over the cliff.


110 posted on 04/12/2012 1:05:50 PM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: Little Ray

Then for you, no problem. Also for you grandchildren, living in a world designed on another continent without their input. If that’s how you feel, that’s how you feel. Won’t argue with you further.


111 posted on 04/12/2012 1:08:03 PM PDT by Cheburashka (It's legal to be out at night in spacesuits, even carrying a rag dolly. Cops hauled us in anyway.)
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To: Kaslin

What if?

And Judge Napolitano is correct.

My friends think I have a certain aims toward the democrats but I’m nearly as uncomfortable with my own supposed party.


112 posted on 04/12/2012 1:08:50 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: servantboy777
The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time.
-Thomas Jefferson-

Jefferson supported the French Revolution. Do you?

Reading the writings of our forefathers, it would seem these quotes were divinely inspired.

That sounds like something a henotheistic idolator would say.

113 posted on 04/12/2012 1:17:14 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Kaslin

We lost the Constitution that was penned by the founders and supported by the Federalist papers -

As soon as the Constitution was amended to directly elect Senators, rather than have them appointed by members of the State Legislators. As appointees, they were subject to recall if the Senator did not abide by the interests of the individual state.

That check and balance of states rights was completely upended by having the people directly elect Senators for six years.

Perhaps a reversion to the way the founders set up the power balance - one house for the people, the other house for the states - could totally transform the current legislative process. - For the better!

(And it could keep Chuckie Schumer only on NY TV; Boxer on CA TV)


114 posted on 04/12/2012 1:20:21 PM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: EternalVigilance
Thomas Jefferson certainly said a whole lot of things I wholeheartedly agree with.

What is your position on the French Revolution? Do you think that was a good thing as Jefferson did?

Our founders were a fractious bunch. Jefferson's faction was definitely pro-Jacobin. He was also highly critical of traditional religion. But because he believed in a strict interpretation of the Constitution and states' rights he is excused for his irreverence.

115 posted on 04/12/2012 1:21:30 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: sam_paine

>>”An amendment? The fundamental check on the government power was the second afterthought?”

Because civilized people talk through their differences (1st amendment) before they start shooting.


116 posted on 04/12/2012 1:32:49 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Who gives a $h1t whether Jefferson supported the French revolution....I don't and that's not what we are talking about.

Secondly, you're obviously spoiling for an argument...go somewhere else, perhaps the religion thread might play your game. I'm not biting.

117 posted on 04/12/2012 1:36:35 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Kaslin

Form 13 seperate countries (get it 13 colonies) with a shared currency and wish everyone well.
New England, Mid-Atlantic, SouthEast, Florida, Mid-west, South, Texas,South West, North West, California, Hawaii, Alaska.
I think I am missing one...?

Otherwise, do we have a Thomas Jefferson in the crowd to re-declare our independence?


118 posted on 04/12/2012 1:55:14 PM PDT by Leep (Enemy of the Statist)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I wish "Constitutionalists" would stop carping about the Alien and Sedition Acts.

They were unconstitutional, as they were outside the area of the enumerated jurisdiction of the federal government.

Why in the world would we ignore pertinent facts?

-----

They were passed to protect our new country from subversion by agents and fellow travelers of Jacobin France.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
William Pitt

-----

Conservative worship of Thomas Jefferson has got to stop.

No. Not now. Not EVER!

"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."
--Thomas Jefferson to Isaac H. Tiffany, 1819.

119 posted on 04/12/2012 1:55:17 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Our founders were a fractious bunch.

Well, there were some supremely important things they all agreed on.

Just to name a few:

That our rights come from God, not from any man.

That the reason for being of government is to equally protect the aforesaid rights.

That those rights preceded and supersede any written document or man-made law.

That our Constitution is the expression and the instrument of the people, who are sovereign under God.

And so, the answer to the question at the top of this thread, "What If the Government Rejects the Constitution?" is, throw out the officers of government and start anew with those who will respect our rights, the sovereignty of the people, and the authority of the Constitution.

120 posted on 04/12/2012 1:57:17 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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To: Jack Black

“What if enough is enough? What do we do about it? What if it’s too late?”
-
Say a prayer at the funeral of our late, great republic, she’s dead, Jim.


121 posted on 04/12/2012 2:27:52 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: servantboy777
Who gives a $h1t whether Jefferson supported the French revolution

Wow . . . just wow.

122 posted on 04/12/2012 2:40:12 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: MamaTexan
I wish "Constitutionalists" would stop carping about the Alien and Sedition Acts.

They were unconstitutional, as they were outside the area of the enumerated jurisdiction of the federal government.

Why in the world would we ignore pertinent facts?

Even Patrick Henry, one of the original anti-federalists who opposed ratification of the Constitution, became a Federalist after its adoption. One of his last public acts was to argue against the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions and in defense of the Alien and Sedition Acts.

Are you even aware that they were the response to the very first "red scare" in our history?

Conservative worship of Thomas Jefferson has got to stop.

No. Not now. Not EVER!

Have you lacerated your Bible as well?

123 posted on 04/12/2012 2:45:54 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: EternalVigilance
And so, the answer to the question at the top of this thread, "What If the Government Rejects the Constitution?" is, throw out the officers of government and start anew with those who will respect our rights, the sovereignty of the people, and the authority of the Constitution.

And I agree.

I merely point out that Jefferson's "strict construction" theory was one of two positions taken by the Founders. The conservatives were Federalists.

124 posted on 04/12/2012 2:48:22 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: theBuckwheat
It cuts both ways: what if enough States voted to reject the present Federal Government?

You mean like 1861? 750,000 dead in that one, they would never settle with that few casualties now.

125 posted on 04/12/2012 3:25:27 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: central_va
with the governor as their C-in-C?

George Wallace set the precedent for that when he acknowledged that a U. S, Marshal could arrest him, of defying a court. Since then federal courts have cr@pped all over the governors. Jan Brewer comes to mind.

Whwn have we had a governor use the State National Guard like a State Army? Oklahoma's 9th Governor, Alfalfa Bill Murray,

126 posted on 04/12/2012 3:37:29 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: Kaslin

Interesting post.


127 posted on 04/12/2012 3:45:24 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
One of his last public acts was to argue against the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions and in defense of the Alien and Sedition Acts.

Since the man who WROTE the Constitution said they were unconstitutional, Henry's change of position is immaterial, as his opinion could not make them so.

----

Are you even aware that they were the response to the very first "red scare" in our history?

Don't be insulting. I know exactly why the acts were passed.

So do you believe if people are frightened enough, the Constitution becomes moot?

----

Have you lacerated your Bible as well?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Just because Jefferson detested the politicalization of the church didn't mean he wasn't a Christian.

Thomas Jefferson- Letter To Dr. Benjamin Rush (April 21, 1803) :
In some of the delightful conversations with you in the evenings of 1798-99, and which served as an anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you that one day or other I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other.

--------

One would think someone who is so quick to question the historical knowledge of others would be aware of a few facts themselves.

128 posted on 04/12/2012 3:45:30 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: MamaTexan
Are you even aware that they were the response to the very first "red scare" in our history?

Don't be insulting. I know exactly why the acts were passed.

So do you believe if people are frightened enough, the Constitution becomes moot?

Do you regard Senator McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover as potential tyrants as well for their opposition to subversion?

Just because Jefferson detested the politicalization of the church didn't mean he wasn't a Christian.

Jefferson's own definition as you have quoted it defines "chr*stianity" as adherence to the ethical concepts taught by J*sus rather than to any dogmatic religion. This is the same "chr*stianity" of the National and World Council of Churches, Barak Obama, and ever liberal chr*stian.

Does your religion reduce to rationalistic ethics as well?

129 posted on 04/12/2012 3:52:02 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: WPaCon
Just how great is the Constitution really if it can’t get anyone to follow it?

Just go vote for Romney and get over it.</sarcasm>

130 posted on 04/12/2012 4:03:27 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: ExSoldier; All
#1 Guerillas don't win wars. Conventional infantry wins wars by occupying real estate and making the population and opposition surrender.

Exactly. The best armed forces outside of our military are the Narco Terrorists, we would be hard pressed to mount a successful defense against those guys let alone a full fledged army.

131 posted on 04/12/2012 4:08:53 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Do you regard Senator McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover as potential tyrants as well for their opposition to subversion?

LOL! We're talking about the Founders, NOT McCarthy and Hoover.

Stop trying to change the subject and answer the question.

So do you believe if people are frightened enough, the Constitution becomes moot?

-----

Jefferson's own definition as you have quoted it defines "chr*stianity" as adherence to the ethical concepts taught by J*sus rather than to any dogmatic religion.

If a dogmatic religion was used as a cudgel to rob and beat the masses into submission, would that be okay with you as long as it met your personal standard of 'purity'?

-----

Does your religion reduce to rationalistic ethics as well?

'Rationalization' is a subjective term.

Does you religion allow you to pass judgment on the beliefs of others?

132 posted on 04/12/2012 4:10:55 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: itsahoot

Well the Obama regime has left me a bit disillusioned. I’m no longer so sure about the Constitution, democratic government, or American exceptionalism. The fact that out of all the people we could have possibly picked to run against Obama, we chose Mitt Romney, just adds to the disillusionment.


133 posted on 04/12/2012 5:58:18 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: Zionist Conspirator; EternalVigilance

Many people don’t realize that the French Revolution was a precursor to Hitler’s ascent to power and the Russian Revolution. Read Leftism or Leftism Revisited, which shows how Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were liberal movements that followed in the footsteps of the French Revolution. In fact, the books name the French Revolution as THE quintessential leftist event. It’s no surprise that the author of Liberal Fascism, Jonah Goldberg, listed Leftism Revisited as one of his top five conservative books.


134 posted on 04/12/2012 6:07:12 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: Kaslin
What if enough is enough?

It is.

What do we do about it?

Nunya bidness.

What if it's too late?

It's never too late.

135 posted on 04/12/2012 6:15:50 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: servantboy777

“Uncle Sugar will be a listening in boy’z. Watch what’ya say!”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I merely quoted the second paragraph of our Declaration of Independence - I’m assuming they might consider that worrisome, but as far as I’m concerned they can imprison me for it if they want.


136 posted on 04/12/2012 7:18:43 PM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: Kaslin

The founders of our republic believed that successful representative governments
required the subordination of individual personal interests to the welfare of the
community. (Read the last sentence of the Declaration of Independence.)
They believed that the political process was all about identifying the common good.
It was not about competition and disagreement; politics was a process in which
rational voters and officials calmly sorted out what best served the entire community.
The end result was not one camp of winners and another of losers, but the entire
electorate united behind a common vision.

How far we have come from having a common view for the good of the republic. It is all
about me me me. Listen to politicians at every level and party, they start everything
with “I believe” or “I want to” or “My vision” with rarely any following relation to our
republic, but instead to some special group or interest or generically “the people”.

I am reminded again of Ronald Reagan’s speech...
It’s time for choosing...
our republic or our special interests:

“You and I are told increasingly we have to choose between a Left or Right. Well I’d like to suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There’s only an up or down: [up] man’s old — old-aged dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order, or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. And regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course....

You and I know and do not believe that life is so dear and peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery. If nothing in life is worth dying for, when did this begin — just in the face of this enemy? Or should Moses have told the children of Israel to live in slavery under the pharaohs? Should Christ have refused the cross? Should the patriots at Concord Bridge have thrown down their guns and refused to fire the shot heard ‘round the world? The martyrs of history were not fools, and our honored dead who gave their lives to stop the advance of the Nazis didn’t die in vain. Where, then, is the road to peace? Well it’s a simple answer after all.

You and I have the courage to say to our enemies, “There is a price we will not pay.” “There is a point beyond which they must not advance.” And this — this is the meaning in the phrase of Barry Goldwater’s “peace through strength.” Winston Churchill said, “The destiny of man is not measured by material computations. When great forces are on the move in the world, we learn we’re spirits — not animals.” And he said, “There’s something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty.”

You and I have a rendezvous with destiny.

We’ll preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we’ll sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness.” — Ronald Reagan


137 posted on 04/12/2012 8:35:24 PM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: Jack Black
>>I am not aware of anyone doing so on the list.<<

When was the last time that war was declared by Congress? Are you still not aware of what they are doing?

IGNORING THE CONSTITUTION is a form of advocating for the overthrow of the Republic!

The National Defense Act last month was a form of advocating for the overthrow of the Republic!

The 10 PLANKS stated in the Communist Manifesto and some of their American counterparts are...

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.

Do changing words, change the end result? ... By using different words, is it all of a sudden OK to ignore or violate the provisions or intent of the Constitution of the united States of America?????

The people (politicians) who believe in the SOCIALISTIC and COMMUNISTIC concepts, especially those who pass more and more laws implementing these slavery ideas, are traitors to their oath of office and to the Constitution of the united States of America... KNOW YOUR ENEMY ...Remove the enemy from within and from among us. http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

138 posted on 04/12/2012 8:39:43 PM PDT by B4Ranch (There's Two Choices... Stand Up and Be Counted ... Or Line Up and Be Numbered ...)
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To: Kaslin
What If the Government Rejects the Constitution?

The Constitution is the contract that brought the federal government into BEING.

If the feds by their actions violate the contract, they have breached it. Then the people have the right either to try to enforce it (good luck with that) or view it as null and void, having been breached by the other party.

If the feds repudiate it and claim it to be invalid or that it says something it clearly does not, then THEY are declaring it null and void.

In either case, the problem (for THEM) is, without the Constitution, they no longer have a legitimate claim to existence, or to expect anyone to do anything they say. Their only claim to power is brute force. They then have made themselves into tin-pot dictators.

139 posted on 04/12/2012 8:44:01 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Leep
Form 13 seperate countries (get it 13 colonies) with a shared currency and wish everyone well. New England, Mid-Atlantic, SouthEast, Florida, Mid-west, South, Texas,South West, North West, California, Hawaii, Alaska. I think I am missing one...?

Otherwise, do we have a Thomas Jefferson in the crowd to re-declare our independence?


Maybe the Desert (Mormon) Republic of Utah? I know in many post U.S. breakup/apocalyptic stories and role playing games I've played and run, the Desert Republic was a staple.
140 posted on 04/12/2012 8:48:16 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (General James Mattoon Scott, where are you when we need you? We need a regime change.)
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To: mo

i fear you may be right. It is already...the time for choosing was decades ago and no one truly heeded the warnings. Incremental subtle steps have surely destroyed any chance at an easy u-turn.
As Rob Port wrote the other day:
“I’m not talking ideology here. This isn’t about conservatism versus liberalism and philosophical viewpoints on the appropriate role of government in our lives. Those debates are important, but this is simple math. The discretionary portion of our national budget is roughly $1.3 trillion. The mandatory spending portion – Social Security, Medicare and interest on the national debt – is roughly $2.3 trillion.
We’re running an annual budget deficit of well over $1 trillion, meaning that even if we cut every penny of discretionary spending (all the money for the FBI and the national parks and the military, etc., etc.) we’d still have a deficit problem.”

So with the majority of the people living in the USA getting something free from the government, it is truly a tough sell to cut entitlement spending.

No easy u-turn after getting everyone addicted to ‘free’ (ie. Child Tax Credit, Food Stamps, Medicare etc)...it truly is sad that they made these ‘mandatory’ spending!


141 posted on 04/12/2012 8:50:02 PM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: Ancesthntr
When at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

You have a typo. It's supposed to be "If at first you don't secede...." ;)

142 posted on 04/12/2012 9:21:24 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: sam_paine
"...What if the concept of “the consent of the governed” was finally rendered moot at Appomattox in 1865?..."

Would that also include consent of the chattel which the side trumpeting this "consent of the governed" meme never granted?

Orwell - 1984 - Up is down - democrat is liberal - wrong is Right.

And fighting to keep and extend slavery becomes a "states rights" issue... and a parody.

143 posted on 04/13/2012 2:51:22 AM PDT by CGVet58 (God has granted us Liberty, and we owe Him Courage in return)
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To: Vor Lady

Save for later.


144 posted on 04/13/2012 4:08:58 AM PDT by Vor Lady (Everyone should read The Importance of the Electoral College by Geo. Grant)
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To: Psalm 144; Ancesthntr

forgive me for the following presumption, but I think Ancesthntr takes for granted that big Gubmint has been watching Freep for years - hell, when Janet the fascist wrote that rightwing terrorist threat bulletin some time back, she probably wanted to include the FR logo as the main illustration on the front page!

It seems to me that he is ready to say no when the authorities start the confiscation of weapons, and probably ready to fight when the jackboots come back to knock on (or knock down...) the door when he doesn’t comply.

And for Anceshntr, I might have you sized up wrong on this, but that’s not the meat of this matter. The real question is how many of us will react when the authorities “ask” for our weapons.

Look at how it happened historically. Hitler claimed the greater good of society was served by the weapons confiscation, blamed the Jews, disarmed them first - then unleashed kristalnacht. Likewise Stalin, Mao, the Turks against the Armenians, and so on. And for those who say it can’t happen here (not you two guys, you know better) I offer Katrina and the local law confiscating guns.

People give up their weapons for fear of what can happen to our families if they don’t... even as we know enough about human history that the thinking part of our brains tells us it will only be worse if we do give up our weapons.

That’s the question, Fraters — and we won’t know the answer as a society until - like a military unit seeing combat action for the first time - we see the proverbial “elephant” knocking on our door with the choice at hand.

JG


145 posted on 04/13/2012 4:21:14 AM PDT by CGVet58 (God has granted us Liberty, and we owe Him Courage in return)
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To: B4Ranch

I’m aware of the unconstitutional laws that Congress passes every session. As far as I know no Congressmen are on the CWII Ping List! They should be.


146 posted on 04/13/2012 7:18:24 AM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: CGVet58

If you wait until there is a SWAT stack outside your door you’ve waited far too long to be of any use to team Freedom in the fight to restore liberty. Your choices then are very limited: surrender or die.

If OpFor convinces us that nothing except them at our own front door is worth fighting for then we have already lost.


147 posted on 04/13/2012 7:23:48 AM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: CGVet58
And fighting to keep and extend slavery becomes a "states rights" issue... and a parody.

It doesn't matter if the "War between the States" was over Slavery, States Rights, or Gay rights...the end result is that the Constitutional Republic ended on 1865 and a Federal leviathan took over. Permanently.

148 posted on 04/13/2012 7:24:14 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine; central_va

.the end result is that the Constitutional Republic ended on 1865 and a Federal leviathan took over. Permanently.
_________________________________________

Indeed, thanks to Abe the tyrant.


149 posted on 04/13/2012 7:30:53 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: itsahoot

>George Wallace set the precedent for that when he acknowledged that a U. S, Marshal could arrest him, of defying a court. Since then federal courts have cr@pped all over the governors.

“Precedent” is merely the judicial branch playing the children’s game of ‘telephone’ with respect to your rights.


150 posted on 04/13/2012 11:15:12 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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