Skip to comments.Whistleblower calls out IT giant over U.S. jobs (the usual H1-B visa scam)
Posted on 04/14/2012 8:14:05 AM PDT by jiggyboy
It's called outsourcing. American firms do it because foreign labor can be cheaper.
But now, one company is being accused of bringing those lower-paid workers to the U.S. illegally and that may be costing Americans jobs.
-- snip --
Palmer says Infosys, the global high-tech giant, engaged in a systematic practice of visa fraud, a charge the company denies.
Palmer said the first thing to catch his attention was an employee that had been in the U.S. from India several times before.
"He came up to me and he was literally in tears," Palmer said. "He told me he was over here illegally and he didn't wanna be here. He was worried that he would get caught."
-- snip --
Palmer says at first, most came over on H-1B visas. These visas are for people with specialized talents or a level of technical ability that can't be found among American workers.
When asked if all the people had some special expertise that couldn't be found in the U.S., Palmer said, "Absolutely not. Not even close. Many of them is what we call freshers. People that would just come over, whoever they could get to come over. Whoever got accepted for a visa."
Many of the people brought in, in fact, didn't know what they were doing at all, Palmer said.
-- snip --
When the U.S. State Department began to limit the number of H-1B visas, Palmer says Infosys began using another type of visa, the B-1. The B-1 is meant for employees who are traveling to consult with associates, attend training or a convention. But Palmer says the employees were brought in not for meetings, but for full time jobs.
Palmer said the jobs were in "Everything from coding software to testing software to fixing software to installing."
(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...
The NYTimes is simply quoting US Census data.
Oh, there are so many fourth-generation immigrants from India here!
Anyone in Silicon Valley or in tech generally knows this is very much so. And I’ve said nothing about American workers at all. My only comparisons, other than those from India having higher incomes than our general population, have been with other immigrant groups.
Cute you ignore invalidation of the study! Fourth generation ‘in theory’
= american not new immigrant.
Boy, Yuri certainly called it!
Funny how I have the same experience. And since I’m female, they lash out very harshly against me (more so than my colleagues) . Sounds like we’re in the same field (I do server side tech support).
What the heck are you talking about?
I find it strange that more engineering isn’t done in Latin America. I’ve had engineers there for the past decade, and they’re all quite brilliant (and in a nearby time zone also).
“Excel and VBScript programming” — huh? That’s not programming.....
India is a socialist country but hardly in the welfare class level — they don’t have enough money for that.. Medical aid is mostly private except for the dirt poor etc.
No, but a large number of our unemployed "IT professionals" have most of their experience in older software like VBScript or NT 4.0 systems administration or NetWare or COBOL. Even for smart people, it gets hard to keep up after age 40 without constant study outside of work hours - and employers are well aware of that. That's why the prospect of an unending supply of smart, cheap, 25-year-old Indians remains so enticing.
Check post #61
The age thing is changing in a lot of places, especially away from the tech hubs like the Bay. Where I’m at almost the entire engineering department is over age 40, quite a few over age 50. We value experience and wisdom over the willingness to work 100 hours a week. It’s great to be in a “mature” work environment, we almost never work OT, everybody has a life outside work, and we make our dates.
COBOL is still very useful and used in quite a few places in big firms. Ditto MVS, JCL and other such mf skills
You are wrong. I've worked in datawarehousing for nearly 12 years now and your statement is wrong on so many levels. "get the job done" -- you can "get the job done" in ruby on rails but the code is not extensible. You can use MSAccess and VBA but then when the requirements expand you end up with a nightmare tool that functions, but no one knows how and when it breaks down, everyone's in a manic as no one knows how it works or why it works how it does
Secondly, intermediate skills in any technology is ok for basic programming, but you need a couple of years to understand what you can do -- with a guy with 5 years experience that comes down to 3 months, but not less.
Finally, more important than coding which any code monkey can do is software engineering -- thinking logically.
Building a software application isn't really rocket science anymore. -- if you want it to last and have a good foundation for building upon, then yes it is. If you want a hack job that functions right now, but you have to toss out if you ever want to add more functionality then yeah, it's not rocket science
No employer in this economy is going to pay top dollar for a software programmer when there are millions of readily available resources from overseas. -- yes and no. For a basic programmer, yeah. For an engineer, no.
Who doesn't like paying overrated American grads a ridiculous $150 grands with full benefits for writing a piece of code while their jobs are protected by unions. -- incrrect. Fresh American grads would get $40000 a year tops. Top rated engineers will get 100+ and PMs or PgMs will get 150+
Nice description of the difference between coders and software engineers.
You are actually arguing over tools. You can use JAVA-oracle or .NET-SQL server or whatever tools suits you but you miss the point. Datawarehousing itself isn't rocket science or brain surgery .... (unless you are still using assembly language for programming in which case you shouldn't even be in IT business anymore). In fact datawarehousing is actually FAR LESS complicated then say designing a microprocesor or a digital signal processor or for that matter any other engineering fields like automobile,construction,Machining Instrumentation or manufacturing.
“Secondly, intermediate skills in any technology is ok for basic programming, but you need a couple of years to understand what you can do “
I guess we have different definitions of what constitutes intermediate level skill. With only 2 years experience you are still at entry level, not intermediate.
“Finally, more important than coding which any code monkey can do is software engineering — thinking logically.”
Logical thinking isn't necessarily a niche of American grads or software engineers. Even janitors can think logically. You don't need a 4 year college degree in software programming to be able to think.
I don't think either of you got my sarcastic drift. Try again.
Nope. They all care when it come to immigrant bashing. Haven't seen anyone who doesnt. If you have been following US politics... from Al Gore to John Kerry to Joe Biden to Obama’s famous words for Hillary Clinton “governor of Punjab”, H1-B and India bashing is a very common election theme. You may not be paying attention to it but every Indian knows it.
“Who doesn't like paying overrated American grads a ridiculous $150 grands with full benefits for writing a piece of code while their jobs are protected by unions. — incrrect.”
I was being sarcastic. But hey, American grads still expect $150g only so they can pay off their expensive education debt, regardless of their actual market value.
False -- COBOL is excellent for formatting data, handling non-relational databases (and yes, non-relational hierarchical dbs are faster if you have a fixed idea what you are doing
Java is nice enough for toys, but for real power a compiled language is better -- C preferably
COBOL programmers are worth a lot, LOT more than Java or anyone else..
Mainframes handle most of the world's business information processing -- it is highly stable with clear garbage cllection unlike Java or thers. Fortran and cbol do not crash randmly or have data leaks
Nothing, abslutely nothing can beat Cobol fr batch processing. Couple it with a JCL and you've got the best way t crunch numbers and data over and over again, reliably.
I’m not arguing over tools. Logic and experience make for a better tol than “get the job done” attitude.
yes. I’ve had sme experience with Cobol and with folks who have tones of experience more than me. Experience counts...
I left COBOL for Foxpro, then C#.NET, a long time ago.
And you tell me I could make much more?
I have seen multiple examples of engineers over 50 being hired (in fact preferred) for a number of roles in my company. A smart company uses the experience and wisdom of older people and brings in fresh perspectives younger professionals.
Anyone in a technical or scientific field needs to keep up with technology, if they choose to stopping learning then I cant understand how they would continue to find their career challenging or rewarding.
Agreed on all fronts.
Then you add my stellar personality, and it becomes a Must Hire Him situation.
For me, a Cobol programmer is hard to find and they are extremely expensive. And after only tiny bug fix I have no more use for them. You cannot build a web application or a mobile iphone/android app in Cobol. Trying to interface a new system with a legacy system is a cost, scope and time nightmare. No new application will ever be written in Cobol. Whatever could be written in Cobol has long been written. The only Cobol programmers you have today are servicing and fixing existing legacy systems not building anything new. Personally if I could, I would any day scrap all the legacy systems and build them new with any of the latest technologies.
Yeah good luck with that. I wish design requirement could be etched in stone. And good luck with refactoring data, char length, date formats.....making them talk to a java based system and trying to make them pass augments back and forth. And guess what most of the libraries handling the interfacing with the legacy systems are written in Java not Cobol. Why? Because nobody wants to tinker with the internal monolithic coding of COBOL. Thanks to the fact that no one created any documentation or generated APIs in COBOL (something you can do in Java with just one click).
COBOL you say? No thanks.
Read post #80 and #82
And dont try to convince me anymore that COBOL is a good tool. I have had my experiences.
Correction: but it WASN’T an argument over tools in the first place.
Software jobs today ARE CHEAP work. You are the one having a hard time coming to terms with reality.
The reality is:
You contradict yourself; if it were true that "US just cannot do without them" then it would be a moot point what the industry would or wouldn't "let happen." It'd be like saying, "I won't let the sun rise in the west tomorrow!"
I hope you have fun with the efficient data crunching and non-GC memory management.
But no, nothing is contradictory. US just cannot do without them AND the industry wont let that happen. Try reading again.
It’s not greedy to want to keep your labor costs down. A business’s goal is to make their customers and investors happy, not to “provide jobs.” Customers always want lower prices and investors always want higher returns on their investment.
If a business could find a way to produce its product without hiring any employees at all, that would be the right thing for them to do. Productivity benefits everyone in the society by producing abundance. That’s aided by lower production costs and by jobs that are not necessary being eliminated and those workers reallocating themselves to where their labor is needed.
I hope your rels aren’t listening to you because if they are, they’re screwing their kids over. BS is the only degree that pays anything!
sheesh, do you understand the concept of different tools for different functions? Cobol isn't good for the web front end, but the cloud computing would call a Cobol proc for batch processing because, as I said, nothing beats cobol for long-term, reliable batch processing. No oop can meet that level.
Your attitude is exactly the problem with "anyone can build it" -- any idiot can stuff gunpowder in a tube and build a "rocket", but to build something sustainable takes knowledge and experience.
So, again, your statement that an intermediate "programmer" can do as well as an S.E is wrong.
I wouldn't use Java for batch processing, nor cobol for a web page.
I've seen Java classes built by folks with very little experience not using the full functionality of oo and just treating it like a procedural language. Little experience, little knowledge leads to bad design, that leads to a code that may function but is not scalable.
yes. The opportunities are not as numerous, but when a company needs one, they pay a lot of money for an experience Cobol developer