Whistleblower calls out IT giant over U.S. jobs (the usual H1-B visa scam)

CBS News ^ | April 12, 2012 | John Miller

[ravager]

If I was to suggest lets build the new project in COBOL because.... “Java is for toys”....all my Lead Tech engineers and developers (even ones who have at some point actually worked on Cobol) would simply laugh at me.

[ravager]

“if you have a fixed idea what you are doing”

Yeah good luck with that. I wish design requirement could be etched in stone. And good luck with refactoring data, char length, date formats.....making them talk to a java based system and trying to make them pass augments back and forth. And guess what most of the libraries handling the interfacing with the legacy systems are written in Java not Cobol. Why? Because nobody wants to tinker with the internal monolithic coding of COBOL. Thanks to the fact that no one created any documentation or generated APIs in COBOL (something you can do in Java with just one click).

COBOL you say? No thanks.

[khelus]

Back after recovering from a massive data leak in Firefox [C# (not C) based].

Cronos,
Again nice description of the advantages of COBOL and C over point clicky 4GL. I love the use of the term 'garbage collection'.

[khelus]

ravager,
If you read my prior posts you would have realized that I have coded in COBOL CICS [interactive/real time data processing]that interfaced both with the net and with hand held devices used by delivery men.

As Cronos pointed out in his post, no pesky data leaks such as I just have to recover from, plus speed, dependability, accuracy, and 'garbage collection'.

[ravager]

Read post #80 and #82

[khelus]

... You are actually arguing over tools. ...

ravager,
As every good professional knows, the using the proper tools makes a huge difference in the outcome.

[ravager]

Yes you are a good professional I am sure, but it want an argument over tools in the first place. Scroll up further to see what the argument was about.

And dont try to convince me anymore that COBOL is a good tool. I have had my experiences.

[ravager]

Correction: but it WASN’T an argument over tools in the first place.

[khelus]

And dont try to convince me anymore that COBOL is a good tool. I have had my experiences. ...

Well, I will no longer try to confuse you with reality. I've cc'd Cronos.

...but it want an argument over tools in the first place. Scroll up further to see what the argument was about. '

The argument started about replacing americans with guest workers and off-shoring using the tired old mantra of jobs american can't/won't do, when in reality replacing americans is all about CHEAP labor.

ciao

[ravager]

Software jobs today ARE CHEAP work. You are the one having a hard time coming to terms with reality.

[khelus]

The reality is:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2872045/posts?page=46#46

[JustSayNoToNannies]

US just cannot do without them. The industry wont let that happen.

You contradict yourself; if it were true that "US just cannot do without them" then it would be a moot point what the industry would or wouldn't "let happen." It'd be like saying, "I won't let the sun rise in the west tomorrow!"

[ravager]

By the way have fun building an MVC, SOA, ESB or cloud computing application using Cobol. And let me know how you did it. Meanwhile every wise Cobol programmer I know have long moved over to Java or .Net.

I hope you have fun with the efficient data crunching and non-GC memory management.

[ravager]

Wow you are smart arent you!

But no, nothing is contradictory. US just cannot do without them AND the industry wont let that happen. Try reading again.

[JediJones]

It’s not greedy to want to keep your labor costs down. A business’s goal is to make their customers and investors happy, not to “provide jobs.” Customers always want lower prices and investors always want higher returns on their investment.

[JediJones]

If a business could find a way to produce its product without hiring any employees at all, that would be the right thing for them to do. Productivity benefits everyone in the society by producing abundance. That’s aided by lower production costs and by jobs that are not necessary being eliminated and those workers reallocating themselves to where their labor is needed.

[Cyber Liberty]

I hope your rels aren’t listening to you because if they are, they’re screwing their kids over. BS is the only degree that pays anything!

[Cronos]

By the way have fun building an MVC, SOA, ESB or cloud computing application using Cobol.

sheesh, do you understand the concept of different tools for different functions? Cobol isn't good for the web front end, but the cloud computing would call a Cobol proc for batch processing because, as I said, nothing beats cobol for long-term, reliable batch processing. No oop can meet that level.

Your attitude is exactly the problem with "anyone can build it" -- any idiot can stuff gunpowder in a tube and build a "rocket", but to build something sustainable takes knowledge and experience.

So, again, your statement that an intermediate "programmer" can do as well as an S.E is wrong.

[Cronos]

as khleus said - "every good professional knows, the using the proper tools makes a huge difference in the outcome."

I wouldn't use Java for batch processing, nor cobol for a web page.

I've seen Java classes built by folks with very little experience not using the full functionality of oo and just treating it like a procedural language. Little experience, little knowledge leads to bad design, that leads to a code that may function but is not scalable.

[Cronos]

yes. The opportunities are not as numerous, but when a company needs one, they pay a lot of money for an experience Cobol developer