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George Washington named Britain's greatest ever foe
The Telegraph ^ | 4-14-12 | Jason Copping

Posted on 04/15/2012 3:20:17 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic

The American was voted the winner in a contest run by the National Army Museum to identify the country's most outstanding military opponent.

He was one of a shortlist of five leaders who topped a public poll and on Saturday was selected as the ultimate winner by an audience of around 70 guests at a special event at the museum, in Chelsea, west London.

In second place was Michael Collins, the Irish leader, ahead of Napoleon Bonaparte, Erwin Rommel and Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

At the event, each contender had their case made by a historian giving a 40 minute presentation. The audience, who had paid to attend the day, then voted in a secret ballot after all five presentations had been made.

Dr Stephen Brumwell, who had championed Washington, said: "As British officers conceded, he was a worthy opponent."

The shortlist of five were selected from an initial list of 20 candidates, drawn up by the museum's curators.

To qualify, each commander had to come from the 17th century onwards – the period covered by the museum's collection – and had to have led an army in the field against the British, thus excluding political enemies, like Adolf Hitler.

The contest was designed to not only identify Britain's most outstanding opponent, but also to draw attention to some lesser-known adversaries.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: enemy; godsgravesglyphs; history; unitedkingdom; war
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Washington was the winner in a contest run by the National Army Museum to identify the country's most outstanding military opponent

1 posted on 04/15/2012 3:20:19 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Washington had important allies.

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2 posted on 04/15/2012 3:24:20 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
By the all-powerful dispensations of Providence, I have been protected beyond all human probability and expectation; for I had four bullets through my coat, and two horses shot under me, yet escaped unhurt, altho' death was levelling my companions on every side.

- GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to John A. Washington, Jul. 18, 1755
3 posted on 04/15/2012 3:27:53 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Hitler didn’t crack the top 3.


4 posted on 04/15/2012 3:33:04 AM PDT by windcliff
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To: windcliff

“Hitler didn’t crack the top 3.”

“To qualify....had to have led an army in the field against the British, thus excluding political enemies, like Adolf Hitler.”


5 posted on 04/15/2012 3:43:34 AM PDT by JoeDetweiler
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To: windcliff
Hitler didn’t crack the top 3.

According to the article, the contest was for generals in the battle field, not political leaders. For this reason, Rommel, Hitler's general, made to Top 5 but the Fuhrer himself didn't.

6 posted on 04/15/2012 3:45:50 AM PDT by paudio (no tagline for now...)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Would have liked to see Lettow-Vorbeck at least considered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Lettow-Vorbeck


7 posted on 04/15/2012 3:46:39 AM PDT by JoeDetweiler
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To: JoeDetweiler

From Wikipedia:

In the year of von Lettow-Vorbeck’s death [1964], the West German Bundestag voted to deliver back pay to all surviving Askaris. A temporary cashier’s office was set up in Mwanza on Lake Victoria. Of the 350 veterans who gathered, only a handful could produce the certificates that von Lettow-Vorbeck had given them in 1918. Others presented pieces of their old uniforms as proof of service. The German banker who had brought the money came up with an idea. As each claimant stepped forward, he was handed a broom and ordered in German to perform the manual of arms. Not one man failed the test.


8 posted on 04/15/2012 3:53:44 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: JoeDetweiler

Yes! Lettow-Vorbeck was a genius. Take a look at his chauffeur: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=72870


9 posted on 04/15/2012 3:55:41 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: afraidfortherepublic

I say to you, you has been nation of bloody banger, fish and chips flatulence, FUGB!


10 posted on 04/15/2012 3:58:33 AM PDT by lbryce (Obama The Worst President Ever Must Be Carterized)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Reading the comments posted on the Telegraph site is highly entertaining!


11 posted on 04/15/2012 4:00:19 AM PDT by Autonomous User ( As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.)
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To: cripplecreek

That was when George was a colonial officer in charge of forces fighting FOR the Brits. Of course he did much better on his own later!


12 posted on 04/15/2012 4:50:03 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: windcliff

Welcome to the “Never Read the Column” tribe.


13 posted on 04/15/2012 4:54:03 AM PDT by Jacquerie (No court will save us from ourselves.)
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To: JoeDetweiler

I consider the story of Von Lettow-Vorbeck one of the greatest little known tales of WWI.


14 posted on 04/15/2012 4:54:24 AM PDT by coolbreeze (giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teen-age boys.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

I yield to none in my admiration for Washington as a man and a leader.

But he was not even vaguely close to Napoleon as a general or soldier.

The article was remarkably vague as to the criteria to be used in gauging the comparative “greatness” of these men.

True story: When Napoleon returned to France from Egypt and had launched his coup, a story got around that he would reinstate a Republic with self-rule by the people. (Not that the French had shown much capacity for it.)

His reply: “Who do they think I am, Washington?”


15 posted on 04/15/2012 4:55:36 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Autonomous User

Re the comments, I “loved” the guy who blamed Washington (and capitalism) for German militarism, the rise of Hitler, and all other problems European.


16 posted on 04/15/2012 5:04:58 AM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
No mention of this guy?


17 posted on 04/15/2012 5:09:00 AM PDT by Godebert (NO PERSON EXCEPT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
George Washington named Britain's greatest ever foe

Socialists divide, not unite.

Britain and the English are our best and dearest allies, period.

I will not swallow socialist swill and will proudly embrace our countries grand history and extend the hand of external friendship to our noble friends across the pond.

You socialists can all go burn, the sooner the better.

18 posted on 04/15/2012 5:10:49 AM PDT by Caipirabob (I say we take off and Newt the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...)
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To: Caipirabob
FReepers, don't let the socialists fool you into hostility against our British friends. They needs us now as much as we need them, and we really need friends on the outside now.

And that was "eternal friendship" not "external". I promise our British friends that eventually one day I will speak English...

19 posted on 04/15/2012 5:13:05 AM PDT by Caipirabob (I say we take off and Newt the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...)
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To: muawiyah

God had plans for him early on.

He was actually pretty mediocre as a British officer.


20 posted on 04/15/2012 5:30:53 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Caipirabob
I promise our British friends that eventually one day I will speak English...

And perhaps, someday, they will too   ;-)

21 posted on 04/15/2012 5:31:35 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: muawiyah

If the British hated Washington after their Yorktown defeat in 1781, how much more would they despise his memory a century or so later when the United States had become a transcontinental industrial & military power and the chaps in London looked across the Atlantic and said “Damn his eyes! All that could have been ours!”


22 posted on 04/15/2012 5:40:27 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("Deport all Muslims. Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind.")
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To: afraidfortherepublic

I think they should take a good look at the Muslims.


23 posted on 04/15/2012 5:48:22 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

America’s five greatest military foes:

Tecumseh
Sitting Bull
Yamamoto
Ho Chi Minh
Osama bin Laden

>I think there were some extra points for Washington because he was a good man. In a similar fashion, Rommel gets extra points because he was implicated in a plot against Hitler.

>Napoleon mostly defeated others, not the Brits, on the battlefield.


24 posted on 04/15/2012 5:52:56 AM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: FRiends
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25 posted on 04/15/2012 6:08:33 AM PDT by deoetdoctrinae (Gun-free zones are playgrounds for felons)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Funny.
Where is Nappy? And the Mahdi? Where is Doenitz who darn neared starved the Brits out in WWII?


26 posted on 04/15/2012 6:13:21 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Redmen4ever
America’s five greatest military foes:

Tecumseh
Sitting Bull
Yamamoto
Ho Chi Minh
Osama bin Laden
Barack Hussein Obama

There.... Fixed it for ya.

27 posted on 04/15/2012 6:22:54 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (Tagline removed at the request of someone who doesn't "get" Monty Python or Shakespeare.)
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To: elcid1970
The Brits were always a big part of the development of industrial and military power in the United States, and probably a bigger part in developing Canada.

They began their exit from the Fringe of Europe some time in the early 20th century, just like the Celtic nations before them in the 19th century, and we should see the completion of that effort in the next 20 years or so.

We are currently seeing the greatest transplantation of Brits to America that we've ever seen!

Now that's how to deal with a military loss!

28 posted on 04/15/2012 6:32:27 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Godebert
To qualify, each commander had to come from the 17th century onwards – the period covered by the museum's collection
29 posted on 04/15/2012 6:47:03 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: muawiyah

“We are currently seeing the greatest transplantation of Brits to America that we’ve ever seen!”

Hope they are fleeing UK’s socialistic policies, rather than bringing them. Especially gun control.


30 posted on 04/15/2012 7:05:01 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("Deport all Muslims. Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind.")
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To: Autonomous User
Reading the comments posted on the Telegraph site is highly entertaining!

Entertaining indeed! I like this one:

And yet, Obama is not on the short list??? The FIRST thing he did was to send back the 'gift' of the bust of Churchill, then he put his feet up on the desk!!! Obama and his wife were rude to the Queen, while bowing to muslims!!!

31 posted on 04/15/2012 7:10:41 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

And just look at what England has become. One mans hero is another mans enemy, you lose. No guns for protection, overrun by mussies, everyones on the dole and government is in your life permanently.


32 posted on 04/15/2012 7:38:35 AM PDT by ronnie raygun (B B)
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To: Sherman Logan
But he was not even vaguely close to Napoleon as a general or soldier.
The American was voted the winner in a contest run by the National Army Museum to identify the country's most outstanding military opponent.
England's outstanding military opponent.

However good he was at fighting foreigners, against the English he

lucky to place third.
33 posted on 04/15/2012 7:46:24 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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bmfl


34 posted on 04/15/2012 7:48:35 AM PDT by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: Redmen4ever
>Napoleon mostly defeated others, not the Brits, on the battlefield.

And in some circles as an opponent he ranked below Princess Caroline of Brunswick.

Napoleon has died on St Helena, official brings the news to the King: "Sire, your greatest enemy is dead"

George IV: "Is she, by G-d!"

35 posted on 04/15/2012 8:00:52 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: afraidfortherepublic; cripplecreek; windcliff; JoeDetweiler; paudio; vladimir998; lbryce; ...

Watch from 5:20 to 14:40 in this YouTube video to hear Newt tell the story of Washington’s Crossing in the American Revolution. You won’t hear the story told better in your lifetime. He does get into the background with the 4 bullet holes in the coat and the dead horses. ;)


36 posted on 04/15/2012 8:08:07 AM PDT by JediJones (From the makers of Romney, Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger 2016. Because the GOP can never go too far left.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic; cripplecreek; windcliff; JoeDetweiler; paudio; vladimir998; lbryce; ...

Link here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aMNzrPovu8


37 posted on 04/15/2012 8:09:08 AM PDT by JediJones (From the makers of Romney, Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger 2016. Because the GOP can never go too far left.)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Now, now, War is bad enough. Don’t drag in something really ugly, like a domestic dispute.


38 posted on 04/15/2012 8:15:56 AM PDT by Mountain Troll (My investment plan - Canned food and shotguns)
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To: JediJones
Way back when Washington crossed the Delaware to attack the Brits at Trenton he went with a select group of men who'd covered his earlier retreat from New York (See Flying Geese).

They were pretty good in ice and snow, and could go barefoot in winter.

Not long ago I read where he had those fellows with him throughout the rest of the war wherever he went.

39 posted on 04/15/2012 8:19:15 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Best. President. Ever. (No offense to the great Ronald Reagan).


40 posted on 04/15/2012 8:26:55 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Time for a write-in campaign...Darryl Dixon for President)
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To: cripplecreek
The Brits had been quite smart to not let a native officer corps develop in America.

In the end that didn't matter.

BTW, the other day I found an interesting local history regarding old Fort St. Joseph on the St. Joseph river in Southern Michigan during the Revolution.

The local militia in Cahokia went up to the Fort and retook it from the Brits UNDER A SPANISH FLAG.

41 posted on 04/15/2012 8:28:24 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Ah, this does my heart proud! Yes you Limies, the Father of our Country is indeed your greatest foe and he catalyzed the fall of your Empire.

At least the British can take consolation in knowing that their greatest foe was himself an Englishmen. The colonists were all British subjects right up until the day they declared their independence from the King. So at least it took a fellow Englishman to soundly beat them and be their top foe. If you are British, you can take a little pride in that.


42 posted on 04/15/2012 8:52:55 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: JediJones

Thanks!


43 posted on 04/15/2012 9:05:59 AM PDT by Jacquerie (No court will save us from ourselves.)
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To: CatherineofAragon

I expect Mr. Reagan would agree with you that Washington was the best US president.


44 posted on 04/15/2012 9:10:45 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: Jacquerie

You caught me lol


45 posted on 04/15/2012 9:16:56 AM PDT by windcliff
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To: muawiyah

My tagline used to be “Remember the River Raisin” but that was the war of 1812.

Niles Michigan is known as the city of 4 flags.


46 posted on 04/15/2012 9:31:32 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: JediJones

My family was there and I have done research on my own. thanks


47 posted on 04/15/2012 10:26:15 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: cripplecreek
Niles Michigan ALSO has some sort of claim to the year "1601" which is three years before the Treaty of London (1604) wherein Phillip III carved up North America for France, Russia, Portugal and Spain (with a smidgeon left over for everybody else).

Now I'm not saying there's no reason for Niles and environs having a 1601 date ~ after all, Terre Haute and Vincinnes had a visit by DeSoto in 1541, as did Evansville, but I'm trying to link that into what seems to have been a truly incredible bout of line drawing along the 42nd parallel BY, ta ta ta daaa, Spain in about 1601 to 1617!

That runs from the Mouth of the St. Joe on Lake Michigan to the tip of Cape Cod ~ no doubt a koinky dink ~ but a useful one. Laying out the 40th would have been much more difficult.

I think this is the line that Spain meant to d-mark the French Southern border ~ NOT THE OHIO! In fact, as late as 1718 the chief cartographer of France (d'Isle) referenced Michigan as Nouvelle Canada, not as Nouvelle France!

Check out Spanish Hill Pennsylvania. They found historic references to surveyors (supposedly Dutch) and dug up an old Spanish ship near that site, as well as various Spanish artifacts ~ all with a late 1500/early 1600 date.

This deal over on the same line in Michigan is exciting ~ and to find the good ol'caballeros down in Cahokia still thought of the South Shore as New Spain is ~ to say the least, a total rewrite of French and Canadian history.

BTW, I'm also on the trail of some of my ancestors who plastered their names on several Spanish boundary markers, landmarks, villages, towns, roads, trails, etc in the East and Midwest, and might have even carved the Kensington stone (about 1585 to 1615 or so) which is pretty clearly a Spanish boundary stone (except done in 15th century runes in Swedish).

I've moved my survey of the nation North another 100 miles and found a good half dozen towns in the bottom tier of Michigan laid out according to the Law of the Indies ~ all along the St Joseph.

For those who don't know that river is the short cut to a host of feasible or known portages to other rivers that lead to Lake Huron, Lake Erie, the Great Miami River, and to the Wabash. In an age where rapid travel was possible only by canoe such information was almost a national security matter.

48 posted on 04/15/2012 10:36:26 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
Kinda' early to be catalyzing an Empire ~ due to their losses in America the Brits turned to South Asia and conquered all of India and huge chunks of territory traditionally claimed by the Thai kings.

Then they turned to Africa then the Middle East.

Not a bad job of catalyzation!

49 posted on 04/15/2012 10:39:20 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Redmen4ever

My 5 greatest American military foes:

Lee
Jackson
Ho Chi Minh
Yamamoto
Cornwallis

For me, Lee wins the greatest foe contest hands down. Thankfully, we have never had to face a soldier like Lee since. Ho Chi Minh is up there as well. I also like your choice of Tecumseh and Sitting Bull as foes.


50 posted on 04/15/2012 11:20:34 AM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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