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No hands-on training to carry
Milwaukee J-S ^ | 15 apr 2012 | James Causey

Posted on 04/15/2012 5:29:04 AM PDT by rellimpank

Imagine sitting through a two-hour driving course without spending any time behind the wheel. Your course instructor strongly encourages you to take some driving lessons, including merging into traffic and parallel parking. But it's not required.

You send in your $50 and, in about a week, your driver's license arrives in the mail.

Does this make you feel safer on the roadways?

It shouldn't.

Now imagine taking a two-hour gun safety course in which you never actually handle a gun or even a facsimile of a gun.

Last week, I successfully completed a firearm safety course that's required by Wisconsin law to carry a concealed weapon.

It was the easiest class I ever took.

During the "listening session," my instructor went over the concealed weapon application with the 30 participants, gave the group examples of where we can and cannot legally take our firearms and talked about a gun owner's responsibility.

But we never handled a handgun, which to me seemed strange. Some of the questions ask by the participants could have been answered by simple common sense.

(Excerpt) Read more at jsonline.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: banglist; rkba

1 posted on 04/15/2012 5:29:06 AM PDT by rellimpank
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To: rellimpank

This differs in every state. Florida requires that you be observed firing a pistol by a certified instructor. MOST people I know go through several hour-long or even weekend-long practical pistol training courses for their certificate of completion requirement. One local range offers two 6 hour weekend day training classes that include firing over 300 rounds in various situations.

And more importantly, DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT! The right to self-defense with a firearm is ensconced in common law. We don’t have to train to use our fists or a knife or a metal rod sitting in a gutter either!


2 posted on 04/15/2012 5:32:59 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rellimpank
Let's see if a two-hour course should be required before anyone is allowed to possess a Bible. After all, if a training is needed to lawfully exercise Second Amendment rights, how about for exercising First Amendment rights?

Some of the questions ask by the participants could have been answered by simple common sense.

I keep hearing about "common sense" applied to guns one way or another, it sounds like this course fits the bill perfectly, if a training is supposed to be required at all. What's the complaint? That you don't want the training to be "common sense"? What would you prefer in that case? Should liberals stop talking about "common sense" as applied to guns, if in fact that isn't what you want?

3 posted on 04/15/2012 5:36:31 AM PDT by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: rellimpank
So just how much training did this urinalist have to obtain his First Amendment License? /spit
4 posted on 04/15/2012 5:39:35 AM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management.)
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To: rellimpank
Now imagine taking a two-hour gun safety course in which you never actually handle a gun or even a facsimile of a gun.

I'm not certain that a 2 hour course meets the requirements to obtain a permit in Wisconsin. If true then it sounds to me like the guy is fudging his article.....

5 posted on 04/15/2012 5:40:12 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Would I like to be young again? No, I worked too hard to get here, I don't want to do it again)
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To: rellimpank

A $50 fee to do what God has given us the the right to do when born...


6 posted on 04/15/2012 5:43:11 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: rellimpank

No hands-on training or instruction is given in how to vote either...


7 posted on 04/15/2012 5:44:27 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

Let me safely say, “You took the wrong course”. Indeed, taking such a course does NOT have to include handling of firearms but any good instructor(s) will provide you with a “handling” exercise. The course that my wife and I took did indeed require us to handle firearms in a safe manner. (Load, unload, holster, etc.) Maybe the instructor(s) were setting you up for a follow-up course with “hands on”, shooting, etc. Good luck and be safe!


8 posted on 04/15/2012 5:45:25 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: rellimpank

In my state I walked into the county sheriff’s office and say, “hi Sam, I need a carry permit”. I fill out the application, have my photo taken and 6-weeks later the permit arrives.

In Nevada I had to attend a 6-hour course, go to the range and shoot 10-rounds each from three distances for each of the guns I wanted to register to carry. On the back of the carry card is a list of all guns and calibers which are permitted based on my qualifying. Nevada does not recognize permits from other states.

In Arizona it was a nine-hour course over 3 evening sessions of 3-hours, then qualify at the range.

All states are different; but I don’t mind the course requirement. The Arizona and Nevada courses were excellent and good refreshers.

Good shooting!


9 posted on 04/15/2012 5:47:11 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: rellimpank
Here in NH you don't need to take any type of course for your CC License.
Sign the paper, give 3 references and within two weeks you get your CC ... a piece of paper signed by the Chief with no photo on it. Now it is encouraged that CC holders take courses and we have a fine Sig Sauer academy close by for classes as well as many ranges with NRA classes, but you are not required to take them. I don't remember seeing in the 2nd Amendment a section for training courses.
10 posted on 04/15/2012 5:47:21 AM PDT by CapnJack
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To: rellimpank

In the recent past everyone would have known about firearm safety because their daddies would have taught them when they were young’uns...Stevie666


11 posted on 04/15/2012 5:48:52 AM PDT by szweig (HYHEY!! (Have You Had Enough Yet))
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To: rellimpank

How much of that $50 fee goes to the government?

I see nothing in the second amendment about licenses, fees or “training”.


12 posted on 04/15/2012 5:50:58 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Haggai 1, V6.. and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. (My plight))
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To: Spktyr

How about English comprehension test for voting?


13 posted on 04/15/2012 5:52:37 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: rellimpank

Another bed-wetting lib checks in.


14 posted on 04/15/2012 5:55:29 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: szweig
In the recent past everyone would have known about firearm safety because their daddies would have taught them when they were young’uns

You're right. My dad started teaching me about fire arm safety with a rifle and shot gun when I was about 6 or 7 years old. I also learned at that time that a shot gun can kick the crap out of a little boy. Pistol safety came a bit latter.

Then there was the matter of the military training with all types of guns for four solid years.

15 posted on 04/15/2012 5:57:02 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Haggai 1, V6.. and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. (My plight))
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To: rellimpank
Please FReep the unscientific poll at the article site, asking if people should be required to handle a gun in the CC class.
16 posted on 04/15/2012 5:58:39 AM PDT by rabidralph
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To: rarestia

That’s not totally true. If you’re a vet, you fill out the CCW form and enclose your DD-214. No class needed.


17 posted on 04/15/2012 6:01:28 AM PDT by EEGator
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To: rellimpank

Don’t get me wrong. I’m in no position to complain about any of the 49 state’s requirements about licensing. I live in Illinois, where it’s still a felony to think about guns.


18 posted on 04/15/2012 6:02:14 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Haggai 1, V6.. and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. (My plight))
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To: rarestia

The problem with most firearms training classes is this. The students that show up quite often are more qualified than the instructor. We walk through a legal formality and try not to embarrass the instructor too much and go our way.


19 posted on 04/15/2012 6:07:35 AM PDT by gfbtbb (The answer to your question will not be found here.)
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To: 50cal Smokepole
So just how much training did this urinalist have to obtain his First Amendment License? /spit

<2ndA>
Rights are not absolute -- freedom of the press is just too dangerous. After all, the founders could never have forseen cable news, the 1-minute news cycle and fully-automatic assault printing presses.

Therefore it is abundently reasonable to require members of the press to acquire a license after mandatory training in slander, libel, and the definition of the words "true" and "false" along with a two-week waiting period.

Breaches truth will result in permanent loss of license and lifetime prohibition from owning and/or accessing the means to disseminate public information for life.
</2ndA>

(Distribute the above freely.)
20 posted on 04/15/2012 6:08:36 AM PDT by Peet (Cogito ergo dubito.)
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To: rellimpank; admin

“Your article has been submitted for review”???

Something new on FR?


21 posted on 04/15/2012 6:12:03 AM PDT by Peet (Cogito ergo dubito.)
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To: rellimpank

Imagine being able to publish a daily newspaper and not having to practice journalism.


22 posted on 04/15/2012 6:20:41 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: rellimpank

Stupid laws make for stupid courses. See your local university curriculum.
Simply requiring a course does not make people smart nor does it have anything to do with the real agenda here.


23 posted on 04/15/2012 6:21:00 AM PDT by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: rellimpank

In N.Dak a class 2 ccw permit is a open book written test only. A Class 1 permit (utah 33 state permit) is a 4 hour classroom and range ability test on both strong hand shooting and off hand shooting ability.


24 posted on 04/15/2012 6:21:00 AM PDT by sbark
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25 posted on 04/15/2012 6:28:03 AM PDT by deoetdoctrinae (Gun-free zones are playgrounds for felons)
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To: rellimpank
Because it is OUR responsibility to be proficient with weapons, not the state. The real question is WHY do we have to have permits and classes.
26 posted on 04/15/2012 6:28:36 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.)
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To: Progov

I agree with Progov. Though it’s not required in NC our instructor took us to the range for two sessions shooting off over 500 rounds. We had all kinds of people there with some who had never touched a pistol. He even taught us the basics of disarming someone if you didn’t have your pistol to defend yourself. I recommend you take a course that includes shooting and handling but I don’t think GovCo has any right to require that.


27 posted on 04/15/2012 6:50:53 AM PDT by Ab Alius Domitor ("In the end; the winner")
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To: rellimpank

Hey those idiot journalists went to journalism school for four years and they are much more ignorant, illogical, and stupid for the effort.


28 posted on 04/15/2012 7:04:34 AM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot.)
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To: rellimpank
Probably 9 out of 10 of the 2nd Amendment loving firearms enthusiasts I know learned basic firearms safety and skills as a youth. Typically this was from a parent, aunt/uncle, or older sibling. The few people I know who came into the fold later in life have all taken firearms safety and skills classes. Some have done both, learned as children and been formally trained. (yours truly included)

In thinking about this article two things jump out at me. One is historical. It is amazing how similar the training was that I got from my parents and from formal instructors. Handed down rancher/farmer lore vs formal classroom and supervised range work - both had the same basic messages re: safety. Both included the same basic procedures. Both included much of the same technical/technique information. My takeaway from this experience is that firearms enthusiasts take it very seriously, just as seriously as the pros. Hence there is great commonality in the message. Besides, there's only just so many ways to skin a cat, as the saying goes.

My second thought, more current and apropos to this "article" is this. This is a right. There should not be any training requirement, any fee. If you can afford a firearm and want to carry - carry. The corellary to that however is, anyone that is going to own/use a firearm would be a fool not to get some instruction.

Even if that instruction amounts to nothing more than going to a local range, finding an open lane, then asking the person next to you for some pointers - do it! Two things I've noticed about fellow firearms enthusiasts. One, we are never in a hurry on the range (basic safety). Two, everyone I've met has been friendly and we obviously share a common interest. Besides, it is in our own best interests to help ensure the person next to us on the range is operating their firearm safely ;-)

29 posted on 04/15/2012 7:15:49 AM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obama now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: rellimpank

I have a ccw and had to have 8 hours of initial training, which required a shooting session. I have 4 hours of recert training every 2 years and it has a shooting session.

I wish every gun owner had this training, but I don’t want gov’t to require it. I also don’t like the fact that we even need permits and licenses to exercise our 2A rights.


30 posted on 04/15/2012 7:17:12 AM PDT by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: Cuttnhorse

I thought NV changed the law effective last year so that you don’t actually “list” the firearms on the back. Just if you qualify with both revolver and semi-auto. Register? Only in LV as far as I know. But, being new to the state and getting ready to take the CCW class I guess I’ll find out soon enough. Also, even if you have a valid permit from another state, that doesn’t have any bearing on getting an NV permit. Not that anybody should be required to have a permit in any case if they aren’t “otherwise prohibited”.
Helping keep mankind warm for almost 65 years.


31 posted on 04/15/2012 7:24:32 AM PDT by rktman
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To: EEGator

I know that’s valid in Florida but not sure about other locales. I took the class in FL anyway because my wife didn’t want to go by herself. But I didn’t have to. The day came and guess who had bronchitis and couldn’t go? My wife. I went anyway and she ended up going at a later date by herself. Even though she wasn’t alone. LOL! And, she is an excellent shot by the way. Scary good!
Helping keep mankind warm for almost 65 years.


32 posted on 04/15/2012 7:30:05 AM PDT by rktman
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To: rellimpank
In PA there is no training required, you must have no felony conviction and be mentally stable, pay the $20 {I think it's still $20} get your PICTURE ID and you can carry.

In the county where I live, the sheriff is very gun friendly and no one I know {without a felony conviction} has ever had a problem in getting a permit.

There is also an obscure law in PA that allows open carry, but it is not very well known by the police and they can cause you a lot of grief.

The PA law is designed so that any law abiding citizen that wants to carry concealed, can, and easily get a permit.

Since there is no way to prevent outlaws from carrying, the best we can do is arm ourselves and be trained, willing and vigilant.

33 posted on 04/15/2012 7:33:29 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorists savages.)
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To: rellimpank

I took my wife to a CC class in Texas. They required students to fire a Semi-Auto and an instructor loaned her a 9mm.

It was a 10 hour course and at least 4 hours took place on the range. We only had 6 students and the range time would have likely taken longer if we had more.


34 posted on 04/15/2012 7:38:07 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse
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To: rellimpank
The thing that this BEM, James Causey, doesn't get is that YOU DO NOT NEED TO TAKE ANY SORT OF A TRAINING CLASS TO GET A DRIVERS LICENSE!!!!! You take a test, and if you pass, you get your license.

This guy is a classic example of a Booger Eating Moron (TM).

Mark

35 posted on 04/15/2012 7:45:11 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Graybeard58
I see nothing in the second amendment about licenses, fees or “training”.

In fact the words "Shall not be infringed" actually precludes any permits, tests, licences or other restrictions on carrying a firearm, concealed or otherwise. Most firearms laws in the USA are unconstitutional, all we need are nine(or 5)members of SCOTUS to have the balls to rule them such.

36 posted on 04/15/2012 10:36:26 AM PDT by calex59
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To: rellimpank; Hunton Peck; Diana in Wisconsin; P from Sheb; Shady; DonkeyBonker; Wisconsinlady; ...

Wisconsin concealed carry training ping

FReep Mail me if you want on, or off, this Wisconsin interest ping list.


37 posted on 04/15/2012 8:35:16 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: rellimpank
Imagine sitting through a two-hour driving course without spending any time behind the wheel.

Imagine allowing recent college graduates to become "journalists" with no license or permit at all!

38 posted on 04/16/2012 5:51:54 PM PDT by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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