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Justice Dept. Agrees to Pay Native Tribes $1 Billion for Mismanaged Funds
All Gov.com ^ | 4/14/12 | David Wallechinsky, Noel Brinkerhoff

Posted on 04/15/2012 11:22:31 AM PDT by Nachum

The Obama administration has reached a settlement with more than 40 Indian tribes to resolve claims of mismanaged funds by the Department of the Interior.

After 22 months of negotiation, the U.S. Department of Justice agreed with tribal representatives for the government to pay more than $1 billion to 41 tribes.

Attorney General Eric Holder said the settlements “fairly and honorably resolve historical grievances over the accounting and management of tribal trust funds, trust lands and other non-monetary trust resources that, for far too long, have been a source of conflict between Indian tribes and the United States.” The settlement does not have to be approved by Congress because it comes out of the Treasury Department’s Judgment Fund.

The Interior Department became involved through its management of about 56 million acres of trust lands for federally-recognized tribes as well as 100,000 leases on these lands for uses ranging from timber harvesting to farming to oil and gas extraction.

(Excerpt) Read more at allgov.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: dept; justice; native; tribes
Obama dollars
1 posted on 04/15/2012 11:22:42 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

Red brothers say, “White man speak with forked tongue.”

This “dispute” e.g. robbery has existed over 100 years.


2 posted on 04/15/2012 11:24:39 AM PDT by jayrunner
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To: Nachum
"That heap wampum, Kemo Sabe.....next round's on me."

Leni

3 posted on 04/15/2012 11:26:42 AM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: Nachum

The government mismanages everyone’s funds. When do the rest of us get paid?


4 posted on 04/15/2012 11:27:33 AM PDT by Spok
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To: Nachum

Is this the final settlement? Does this satisfy all past historical claims of mistreatment? Or will we be doing this all over again in about 4 years? And again a few years after that?


5 posted on 04/15/2012 11:28:12 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Like Emmett Till, Trayvon Martin has become simply a stick with which to beat Whites.)
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


6 posted on 04/15/2012 11:28:12 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

Obama-money is fiat...


7 posted on 04/15/2012 11:33:39 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Nachum

Good for the natives, they were truly getting ripped off, as usual. I hope this agreement includes controls on the federal government so it doesn’t continue.


8 posted on 04/15/2012 11:36:14 AM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Nachum

How many times we’re going to do this? This money should be coming out of the pockets of the bureaucrats who “mismanaged” the “funds”, NOT THE POCKETS OF THE TAXPAYERS. The taxpayers cannot always be held responsible for the incompetence and corruption of government bureaucrats. I think it’s time for the U.S. taxpayers to sue the government for all of these “sovereign nations” they are propping up with OUR tax dollars.


9 posted on 04/15/2012 11:40:40 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (ObamaCare is like a stool sample. You have to pass it to find out what's in it.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer
That is a half billion less than the muslim brotherhood is getting. The Indians need better negotiators or else they need to be radical islamists to get obama to part with more of our cash.
10 posted on 04/15/2012 11:49:17 AM PDT by Colorado Doug (Now I know how the Indians felt to be sold out for a few beads and trinkets)
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To: Nachum

Reparations.


11 posted on 04/15/2012 11:53:11 AM PDT by tunedin
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To: Vince Ferrer

AMEN


12 posted on 04/15/2012 11:59:30 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ("If you bought it - a truck brought it" - and because of the price of gas/it costs more.)
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To: Nachum

Next, reparations for blacks.. Holder can’t spend it fast enough.. The American economy still manages to survive IN SPITE OF THOSE WITHIN WHO SEEK TO OVERWHELM AND COLLAPSE IT. FUEH!


13 posted on 04/15/2012 12:03:45 PM PDT by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
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To: Spok; ClearCase_guy

You fellows are on the mark.

What happened here is that tribal land and trust-fund administration was gradually turned over from regular (mostly white, it is true) civil service bureaucrats to tribal bureaucrats who either couldn’t or didn’t manage the accounts openly and honestly...so all the federal and private dollars that were poured into tribal accounts over the past 30 years simply can’t be accounted for.

There are no records, there is no paper trail, yet the money has all been spent, including some good part of it that went to the purposes it was intended to go to.

Instead of digging in and finding the fraud and incompetence and punishing those responsible, the Justice Department has determined (once again) to turn to the taxpayers to pay and repay for mistakes & crimes committed by federal employees.

Same old waste and corruption, same old remedy. Give give give ‘em more.


14 posted on 04/15/2012 12:10:54 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: ClearCase_guy
If you had a brain you would know that this has nothing to do with past wrongs, murders, massacres and deceits but with money left in trust for the tribes that was stolen from the account and as far as I know at this time, no one has any idea where it went. (actually someone knows but isn't talking) You folks writing in here, TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELVES. Is it any wonder after listening to some of you here why 95% of tribal members support the Democrats.
15 posted on 04/15/2012 12:25:07 PM PDT by fish hawk (Religion: Man's attempt to gain salvation or the approbation of God by his own works)
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To: Nachum

Just a continuation of the dem’s “buy a vote” program.


16 posted on 04/15/2012 12:27:03 PM PDT by Gator113 (***YOU GAVE it to Obama. I would have voted for NEWT.~Just livin' life, my way~)
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To: Fightin Whitey

Think of it like this: Say you have a million dollars in your account at your bank and then you find out that it is missing but the bank has no idea where it went. Now the Federal Reserve reimburses you the million dollars. That makes you guilty of nothing no matter what color or race you are.


17 posted on 04/15/2012 12:32:42 PM PDT by fish hawk (Religion: Man's attempt to gain salvation or the approbation of God by his own works)
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To: Gator113

So the Justice Department has a slush fund containing more than $1B. How is this created? Would someone please tell me again why exactly it is that we are paying the people in Congress. Are they the ones who give this money to departments like this one with no accountability for it whatsoever?


18 posted on 04/15/2012 12:43:41 PM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: Fightin Whitey

“What happened here is that tribal land and trust-fund administration was gradually turned over from regular (mostly white, it is true) civil service bureaucrats to tribal bureaucrats who either couldn’t or didn’t manage the accounts openly and honestly...so all the federal and private dollars that were poured into tribal accounts over the past 30 years simply can’t be accounted for.”

Wrongo bongo. What happened transpired from longer back than just 30 years ago, through multiple administrations, heads of the trust and bureaucrats, ‘white’ and otherwise.

What happened was the ‘accounting sytem’ was essentially no system at all - no standard forms, no standard recoring of actions, no standard procedures and no standards about record keeping; the judges, in all these cases have said the ‘evidence’ (the record) when found represented no standards and in the main was essentially missing.

The best estimates of ‘the record’ has been inferred from the records of the oil/gas/mining interests (that were given leases on triba; lands) regarding what THEY received, and the tribes bank records of what THEY recieved.

The sums ARE large and if Congress wants to prevent this in the future they will prioritize the Interior department budget so that it cannot be said the resources are not there to fix the problem and also demand reports to Congress of audits that show it is and at some point finally has been fixed.


19 posted on 04/15/2012 12:48:48 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Grams A

“Would someone please tell me again why exactly it is that we are paying the people in Congress.”

There is no good reason, there is only corruption.


20 posted on 04/15/2012 12:49:53 PM PDT by Gator113 (***YOU GAVE it to Obama. I would have voted for NEWT.~Just livin' life, my way~)
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To: Wuli

Wuli is on the right path here - this litigation has been going on for decades in various forms. People should check out Reagan appointee Royce Lamberth’s rulings in previous litigation here. Team Obama has so poisoned the well on these sorts of cases that it is impossible to know whether this settlement is on the level.


21 posted on 04/15/2012 1:16:47 PM PDT by rockvillem
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To: Nachum

Well, that takes care of the Native American vote.


22 posted on 04/15/2012 1:54:48 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: tunedin

I wonder who will be next?


23 posted on 04/15/2012 2:12:36 PM PDT by antidemoncrat
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To: FlingWingFlyer
The taxpayers cannot always be held responsible for the incompetence and corruption of government bureaucrats.

On the contrary. The taxpayers are DIRECTLY responsible for the actions of its agents -- the bureaucrats. Which is why every pencil-pushing desk pilot in the government must be held accountable to the taxpayers. We cannot let them hide behind anonymity, bureaucracy, or their corrupt unions any more. It is OUR money they are stealing, and WE who are held liable for the damages they do. Therefore, WE ARE THE BOSSES!

24 posted on 04/15/2012 2:25:40 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: fish hawk; Fightin Whitey

Fish Hawk, I appreciate your effort to add some context to this.

Most people operate on the smoke>fire and zebra>stripes models, and if Eric Holder and the Obama administration are for something, then it cannot be good for America as a whole. And that is largely true.

And it is also a truism that any activities having to do with Native Americans, from legislation to administration, are largely populated by some of the most rabid leftists there are.

In this case, people see five things: money, timing (election year) corruption, mismanagement and minorities.

These are usually the five fingerprints from the left hand of liberalism. (The right hand is in the till, or more accurately, in our pockets)

This usually elicits a near knee-jerk reaction, and most of the time it is correct. I concede it may not be in this case, but if you help us understand it a bit better, we can make a more informed judgment.

In this case, how long is “historical” in your opinion, or in the context of this unallocated money transfer by the Treasury Department?

Where did the money disappear? Was it money that was allocated in budgets by the Treasury and never got to the recipients (tribes) or did the money find its way out of the treasury, where it was lost to reckoning after that?

Fightin Whitey makes the point about a gradual change in the administration in various places of the government including the Treasury and the Bureau of Indian Affairs...do you have any knowledge of what he is referring to, any specifics on that? (for example, did the administration of money from the Treasury passed to the Bureau of Indian Affairs get assumed by people who have degrees in Native American Studies or some such thing rather than traditional political bureaucrats?

I ask these questions, because as I read the thread, my first response is to see stripes and think of zebras, and smell smoke, thinking of fires.


25 posted on 04/15/2012 3:02:09 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: fish hawk; rlmorel; Wuli

Howdy Fish Hawk, good to hear from you.

You and I have gone a few rounds before, but we ended with a handshake, and I came away with appreciation for the keen mind I was up against and also your big heart.

I would only disagree with your assessment in this sense: Let’s say I have a million at the bank and I leave my debit card (with the pin number) on the kitchen table for all my friends and relatives to use, if they have a real need or emergency. I tell them I would like them to keep good records, and pay me back if possible, but in the meantime I am ready and willing to help.

When the bank calls me up to tell me the account is empty, and I tell them I have no idea where the money went, we might both be telling the truth. But lacking any proof of the bank’s misdeeds there is no reason in the world that they should replenish my funds, is there?

Wuli, I think I am saying much the same thing as you—it isn’t so much thievery of tribal money in question here, it is just that the money has been spent and somehow there have been no decent records kept.

So the government is going to pay it all out again from the same source and to largely the same recipients as before.

I mentioned 30 years because that is how long, approximately, that my experience reaches back. Actually it is more like forty. When I was growing up in a reservation town many of my white pals’ parents worked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Some of my Indian friends’ parents worked there too but in my long-ago memory the BIA office in town was largely (and unwisely I would say) staffed by white managers, adminstrators and clerical workers.

As I went through school it seemed obvious that the Interior Department or someone had started a push (sensibly, right?) to replace white Agency employees with tribal members, almost always through attrition, if I remember right.

When I look at the outcome these many years later I see not so much nefariousness as a lack of training, structure and oversight.

My dad was a small loan officer in the community bank and back early on they made LOTS of small loans to tribal members—they called them “assignments,” as in an assignment of grazing or mineral proceeds—based on the borrower’s expected lease payments (often from private sources) or trust payments (from the government).

The rules were clear and straightforward and it was a good program. My dad was always proud of how it worked out for everybody.

Later, as with everything governmental, the rules got more complicated and the relationships got more adversarial and now that kind of small loan program doesn’t really exist, as far as I know.

So it goes.


26 posted on 04/15/2012 4:21:38 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: Fightin Whitey; rlmorel
Thanks for the comeback. Both of you show that there are some thinkers here and not just , “they probably spent it on booze”. If I remember right, (this case has been going on for several years) at the time of discovery, the guy ahead of the Dept. was Sec. Babbitt. The judge ordered him to come up with the paper trail of where the money went. He could not come up with it so the judge fined him $600,000 (if I remember right). it turned out that legally he did not have to pay a dime. It seems that these crooks covered themselves with a law that they cannot be sued personally in these matters. So the Government paid the fine for him, clearing his name. After Babbitt it was a woman that became Sec. and she could not find any paper work either.
27 posted on 04/15/2012 5:45:14 PM PDT by fish hawk (Religion: Man's attempt to gain salvation or the approbation of God by his own works)
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To: Fightin Whitey

“it is just that the money has been spent and somehow there have been no decent records kept.”

You are wrong. All your theoretical examples and anecdotal references aside IT IS NOT an issue of incidents where some appropriate sums were paid out once before and now, due to lousy record keeping, they are going to now be paid out again.

The questions arose from the beginning when some tribes questioned what had been paid to them for their oil/gas/mining leases, and when the government’s records were found - by court trials - unable to solve the question, they went to the oil/gas/mining industries for a look-see at their records, and given what THEY had paid and given what the tribes knew they had received, everyone knew “something was rotten in Denmark”.

The legal dilema was how to ascertain an appropriate settlement when the government’s record-keeping proved incapable of doing that on its own.

Even court demands that the government “fix” the records proved impossible as a sole means to rely on, because many records were either not kept or not kept very long.

The problem goes back as far as government administered leases for gas/oil/mining on tribal lands. That was a lot more than 30 years ago.


28 posted on 04/15/2012 5:54:36 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli

How do you know the appropriate sums weren’t paid out?

You don’t, do you?

How do you know, in your precise non-theoretical and non-anecdotal Harvard Business School terminology, that “something was rotten in Denmark”?

You don’t, actually, do you? Because adequate records don’t exist to prove anything one way or another, except that somebody was damn bad at record-keeping, whether intentionally or not.

All I told you is what I know. What you know is precisely nothing, not anecdotally, not financially, not historically.

If you think a tarted-up statement like, “The legal dilemma was how to ascertain an appropriate settlement when the government’s record-keeping proved incapable of doing that on its own” differs materially from “it is just that the money has been spent and somehow there have been no decent records kept,” then, yes, I guess I am wrong and you are right.

You are so blindly right you should work for the government. If you already don’t.


29 posted on 04/15/2012 6:25:03 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: fish hawk

Still hopin’ to go fishing with you one of these days, FH.

Learn from the best: that’s long been my motto, you know.

Thanks for the heads-up. I’m glad to see you’re still tending the forest, brother. Take care, hey?


30 posted on 04/15/2012 7:12:14 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: fish hawk

Sad.

I read this, and I realize that what I have long known but not wanted to face, is that there is no accountability to the electorate.


31 posted on 04/15/2012 7:23:29 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: Fightin Whitey

“Because adequate records don’t exist to prove anything one way or another, except that somebody was damn bad at record-keeping, whether intentionally or not”

While adequate records do not exist IN THE GOVERNMNENT to make the case that they might have made more payments than everyone believes; they just can’t prove it ‘cause the records are so bad, adequate records do exist, outside the government, within the records of the gas/oil/mining companies and the banks that at least among gas/oil/mining leases the gas/oil/mining companies’ records identified as on tribal lands, the sums the gas/oil/mining interests paid in royalties for those leases alone don’t appear to be represented by the sums paid to the tribes, in the banking records.

It is your speculation, and maybe the government’s claim, that ‘we DID pay more money than claimed, and the tribes know it and contrived to hide that fact on their end’ is pure speculation ‘cause thanks to the government it cared so little about accounting for this matter that it can prove NOTHING about it. Naturally, the government has lost all its cases on this issue in the courts; as seems only fair.


32 posted on 04/19/2012 4:10:06 PM PDT by Wuli
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