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The GOP is basically finished. Time to go the way of the Whigs. (Vanity)
4-16-12 | Mozillla

Posted on 04/16/2012 12:09:46 AM PDT by Mozilla

Basically the GOP is too divided to ever unite. There is a deep level of distrust and various factions want different things. People do not agree on whom the best candidates are anymore. Us Conservatives, like me, were all over the map as person after person fell apart in the presidential republican primary. Romney is the final nail in the coffin. Newt, to me, has no chance and he has his own baggage. He has a good message though, but it is too late to do much. I personally think it is time to just end the party.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: gop2012; vanity
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1 posted on 04/16/2012 12:09:53 AM PDT by Mozilla
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To: Mozilla

The problem is expecting a party that nominates a conservative presidential nominee , once every 150 years , to be more conservative.

We are the Einstein definition of insanity.


2 posted on 04/16/2012 12:12:10 AM PDT by KSanders (Hope and Change is now Class and Gender warfare)
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To: Mozilla
I think those of us that live in solidly blue states should vote for the Green Party. That way we can create a thorn in the side of the Democrats.

After a sufficient number of leftists have moved on to the Green Party, it will then be OK to create a truly conservative party without throwing the election to the Democrats.

A conservative party wouldn't necessarily need to field its own candidates. It could agree to support the Republican candidate if that candidate is sufficiently conservative. Just like the Conservative Party of NY often does.

This will take a bit of time to take effect, but it is better to help to split the left before we split the right.

3 posted on 04/16/2012 12:14:47 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Mozilla
I look at it in a different way. It was an expensive lesson for Conservatives, and I hope they got the lesson. If they got it, the next election cycle will see Conservatives coalesce around ONE person pretty early. That way they can be able to bestow on that person the needed financial and optics momentum required to garner the GOP seat. This cycle saw a lot of Conservatives acting in granular fashion, where they would clump by 'tribe' around several people. Not only that, but if you supported person A you likely ended up undermining person B.

I hope the expensive lesson was worth it, otherwise next cycle you will see some Conservative with the right fiscal ideas and mechanisms of achieving them, a proper social conservative focus, a keen understanding of the Constitution, and well honed energy and foreign policy experience; get thrown under the Conservative bus because he/she believes in evolution or some other reason that makes 'tribe' A, C, G, and X think he/she is anathema.

4 posted on 04/16/2012 12:17:06 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: Mozilla

Yep...


5 posted on 04/16/2012 12:18:13 AM PDT by dps.inspect (the system is rigged...)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

The most fertile ground for a true conservative party would be in the southern states where Democrats are weak.

The local GOP RINO leaders who created those proportional primaries deserve replacement.

They set up the scenario so Romney could win delegates down there.

Back in 1976 Reagan took Texas as a winner take all. This year it was made a strictly proportional primary.


6 posted on 04/16/2012 12:24:06 AM PDT by Nextrush (PRESIDENT SARAH PALIN IS MY DREAM)
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To: Mozilla

It seems unlikely that conservatives will find more political representation by abandoning the GOP. It seems more likely that all of the progress conservatives have managed to make over the past years will be undone and the democrats will be touchdown dancing on our graves.


7 posted on 04/16/2012 12:25:17 AM PDT by RC one (all y'all had to do was vote for Newt but noooooo, he wasn't good enough.)
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To: Mozilla
The GOP is facing a race against demographics. One, that will be hard to win. Its that simple.

America is forever changed.

8 posted on 04/16/2012 12:29:43 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Mozilla

We have 4 choices
Vote Obama
Vote Mitt
Don’t vote
Write in someone else

Only one has a chance of defeating Obama.


9 posted on 04/16/2012 12:31:12 AM PDT by preacher (Communism has only killed 100 million people: Let's give it another chance!)
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To: Nextrush

GOP splintered in diff. regions of the country? Almost like what somewhat conservative Zell Miller said in his book A National Party No More, even though this time it could be referring to GOP?

Still I hold out hope and hold my nose (even though my state MA is prob voting for The One)...and hope that the joke “I don’t belong to any organized party—I’m a Democrat” is true (i.e., that they are splintered too)


10 posted on 04/16/2012 12:34:53 AM PDT by raccoonradio
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To: Mozilla
I wasn't all over the map, just found myself checking out progressively less Conservative candidates as the most Conservative candidates were shot out of the saddle, almost in reverse order of their conservativeness. Almost like the Constitution was radioactive, and whoever stood close got a lethal dose.

What has been coming out of the Republican scrum has been less than satisfying, and generally more so every cycle.

What I have noticed is a progression toward totalitarianism, first the left foot, then the right, each passing what the other cannot.

That isn't healthy for a Constitutional Republic. Sad that Jack Kennedy could have run to the right of the apparent candidates without changing a thing.

While I ever hope our republic can be saved by gentle means, the likelyhood of that happening is less each day.

Under the current two parties, it looks grim ahead indeed.

11 posted on 04/16/2012 12:53:41 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: spetznaz
the next election cycle will see Conservatives coalesce around ONE person pretty early. That way they can be able to bestow on that person the needed financial and optics momentum required to garner the GOP seat.

In North Dakota, Santorum got roughly 40% of the caucus vote, Ron Paul roughly 25%, but the GOP muckety mucks put up a slate with 16 of 25 delegates avowed Romney supporters. They even shut off microphones to quell dissent.

When the GOP pulls crap like that, they can pucker up and kiss my hindparts. If I wanted to be railroaded, I'd take Amtrack.

12 posted on 04/16/2012 12:57:51 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: preacher

Only one has a chance of defeating Obama.


With a mind set like that I guess your right.

However, defeating Obama with a Obama clone does nothing to advance our cause.


13 posted on 04/16/2012 12:59:51 AM PDT by cableguymn (Good thing I am a conservative. Otherwise I would have to support Mittens like Republicans do.)
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To: preacher
We have 4 choices
Vote Obama
Vote Mitt
Don’t vote
Write in someone else

Only one has a chance of defeating Obama.

To what end?

Romney has never governed conservatively and there is no reason to think that he will fight for Conservatives once in office again.

14 posted on 04/16/2012 1:10:52 AM PDT by RJL
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To: preacher

Thee is zero chance of defeating Obama in this election, because they have already rigged the counting of the ballots using the Spanish company controlled by the socialists-communists to count the U.S. election ballots. Romney, like McCain, is a sham candidate for the purpose of preserving the illusion of an actual election.


15 posted on 04/16/2012 1:19:54 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Mozilla

The problem is timing. We need a unified effort to defeat Zer0. Leave the fantasy worlds on the Unicorn Farm for the Zombie Left.

In the mean time . . .

Go Newt!


16 posted on 04/16/2012 1:20:33 AM PDT by jonrick46 (Countdown to 11-06-2012)
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To: preacher

That kind of thinking can get you in trouble on this site right now. Sure hope we don’t go the way of a conservative LGF.


17 posted on 04/16/2012 1:22:28 AM PDT by chargers fan
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To: preacher

The fifth is vote for the nominee of a party that actually represents your interests.


18 posted on 04/16/2012 1:43:55 AM PDT by ScottinVA (A single drop of American blood for muslims is one drop too many!)
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To: Theoria

Spot on.

At the core of the whole issue is the demographic trend. With hispanic (and face it.. they`re big on big government) voter numbers swelling in the southwest, and other ethnic groups growing by leaps and bounds faster than whites, the path to victory for the conservative side is narrower with each passing year.

Add to that, the “gimme” mindset of the younger generations who will vote for whomever grants them the most goodies...

Frankly, I don`t see how the country survives into the distant future.


19 posted on 04/16/2012 1:52:21 AM PDT by ScottinVA (A single drop of American blood for muslims is one drop too many!)
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To: Mozilla

I have posted several times that the GOP is just one faction of the BOHICA Party. It is there to serve as a foil for the RATs; their proverbial whipping boy, if you will.

PUBs don’t attack because they are not allowed. They don’t respond to attacks because they are not allowed. GOP prize is NOT the Presidency; getting the nomination is. The campaigns are bread and circuses for the masses.

0bambi or Mittens? WTF cares? There is zero difference on policies. Just as McLame and 0bambi had zero differences. It doesn’t matter who gets elected; we are screwed either way. Face it, the grand experiment is over. The country has been sold to Red China.

This country is divided as never since 1860. It is too big to manage. Let the South rise again. Forcibly deport all LIBs to the North and likewise, let Conservatives live in a free country. Deo vindice


20 posted on 04/16/2012 1:58:25 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: preacher

That pretty much sums it up and the choice is obvious. At least for me it is.


21 posted on 04/16/2012 2:10:39 AM PDT by equaviator
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To: KSanders

I assume you mean Reagan—who was nominated twice. I think that you may be undervaluing Coolidge, Taft, and Goldwater as he was in 1964. I would say “once every 30 years or so,” but otherwise agree with your conclusion.


22 posted on 04/16/2012 2:13:17 AM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: preacher

And only one of those has a chance of completely destroying whatever of organized conservatism is left in the Republican party.


23 posted on 04/16/2012 2:15:52 AM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Mozilla

Politics is a career. There are too many Rinos that would lose their fat bankrolls (notice I didn’t say paycheck). I think many of us have the strong delusion we have any power over what the Republican Party does. We think the vote is power but if we don’t have the choice then our vote is meaningless (Romney/McCain/Dole). The Rino elites have no incentive to go anywhere.


24 posted on 04/16/2012 2:30:03 AM PDT by vanilla swirl (searching for something meaningfull to say)
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To: Mozilla

Don’t feel too bad. 2008 was probably the last election that would have made a difference. The storm is coming and there just ain’t much you can do but prepare fer it, IMHO.


25 posted on 04/16/2012 2:34:37 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: RJL

Exactly. When asked why so many liberal judge appointments in Mass he responded, “It is a liberal state.” Great. If you do get Myth the SCOTUS appointments won’t be much different. Count on it. No Thomas, No Alito, No Scalia from Myth. Just another Ginsberg, or worse.


26 posted on 04/16/2012 2:38:23 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Mozilla; Fudd Fan; Biggirl; advertising guy

If we do at this point, 0bummer&Co will get 4 more years, and we go thru unbelievable Hell, which make the first 4 years look tame and sane, in comparison. The Republic is then finally and completely dead, and we’ll NEVER get it back. Never. This is the most important election in our Nations history. Yes, I’m voting Newt in my state’s primary.

WE MUST GET 0bummer OUT OF OFFICE, at all costs!

As Mark Levin says, “I’ll vote for an orange juice can over 0bummer; we can deal with the can, later.”
s primary.

WE MUST GET 0bummer OUT OF OFFICE, at all costs!

As Mark Levin says,


27 posted on 04/16/2012 2:57:26 AM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
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To: carriage_hill

Ooops, sorry for that bad cut&paste job. I’ve had 2 cups o’ joe...


28 posted on 04/16/2012 3:09:36 AM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
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To: WhiskeyX
Thee is zero chance of defeating Obama in this election, because they have already rigged the counting of the ballots using the Spanish company controlled by the socialists-communists to count the U.S. election ballots.

This is false and you look stupid saying it.

29 posted on 04/16/2012 3:28:10 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Mozilla
Stop your whining. Money drives a campaign it's plain and simple. Gingrich (who I support) and Santorum just don't have the bucks to compete with Romney. This is why Gingrich took a beating in Florida after a solid southern win in South Carolina. He had just enough money to get his message out but no reserves to fight the negative campaign brought on by his competitor. So unless you are willing to contribute vast amounts of money to a conservative candidate you will run into the same problem.

Then let's talk about the other conservatives: Perry couldn't debate worth a damn. Gingrich has tons of baggage and while his message is right on target it is diminished by his past. Santorum lost a senate seat to a Democrat in Pennsylvania he was a virtual nobody on the national scene until he ran for the nomination. Anyone pinning their hopes on Santorum were setting themselves and the GOP up for slaughter

Romney on the other hand never stopped campaigning since 2008. He made sure he mastered the politics inside the GOP for his run this year. He is not my choice candidate but I also don't have a reason not to take him at his word for what he is currently saying on the campaign trail. I expect that he will completely support the GOP platform coming out of the convention when he is President. He has shown he is willing to take his campaign negative to ensure a win and it's going to take negative and positive campaigning to unseat Barak Obama.

Any talk of staying home if Romney is the GOP pick is nonsense. Romney looks like Ronald Regan when compared to Barak Obama. This country will be far better off under President Romney than the current President. Just because it will be marginally better under President Gingrich or President Santorum and therefore I will quit the GOP?? I don't understand the logic.

Point of fact Ronald Regan didn't get the nomination the first time he ran for President. But God bless the man he kept fighting for the nomination until he could win it.

30 posted on 04/16/2012 3:41:25 AM PDT by stig
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To: Mozilla

You can’t replace something with nothing.

There’s got to be another worthy opposition that emerges.


31 posted on 04/16/2012 4:07:51 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: stig

Careful, I’ve noticed recently that reasoned logic doesn’t sit well with the more zealous ones here.

I’m not a huge Mitt fan, but I’ll vote for him for the simple reason that I’ll take the one I can work with over the one who works against me.

Now, as for why we don’t elect true conservatives anymore, that’s pretty easy, too many republican voters put too much emphasis on one aspect and ignore the rest.

With Santorum you have the religious side of the GOP dancing in their pews, but they would completely ignore the fact that his was as liberal as any democrat with regards to the economy and would gladly use the force of government to force people to do as he saw fit, no better than a liberal to me.

With Newt you got the national defense crowd excited as well as those that like a candidate that would fight, problem was that Newt tilted at windmills way too often and looked like a hypocrite whenever someone would talk family values, it also didn’t help that the man is one big massive ego and he was liberal in many areas also.

The reason why we’ll never get a true conservative is that we have far too many factions within that party who want to decide what a conservative is, many believe he/she needs to be a Bible thumping christian and nothing else matters others think they needs to be strong on national defense even if those actions harm our own personal liberty (Patriot Act) they don’t care.

Personally, to me being conservative means having a sound free market economic policy, strong national defense only acting when the threat is imminent to defend us, letting their religion guide them but not forcing it on others, and finally and most importantly, it’s allowing maximum freedom to be the law of the land, everyone can do as they choose as long as their actions do not infringe on the rights of another, yes, that means keeping the government out of the bedroom, what people do behind closed doors is their own business not ours or the governments as long as they keep those actions behind closed doors.

Unfortunately we have too many in the republican party that want to use the force of government to force people to act they way they see fit, which makes you no better than a liberal.


32 posted on 04/16/2012 4:20:26 AM PDT by gjones77
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To: Mozilla; Theoria; raccoonradio; Smokin' Joe; cableguymn; ScottinVA; NTHockey; Hieronymus; ...

To boil it down, I use The Rule of Threes:

1.) One third of us who are/were Republicans think a Republican candidate who has liberal views can govern effectively and save the country. They would contribute money and vote for the candidate enthusiastically.

2.) One third of us who are/were Republicans think a Republican candidate who has liberal views cannot govern effectively, but might help save the country by staving off the day of reckoning by voting for a candidate who will do less damage until a real conservative comes along. A large portion of this third will not likely contribute to the candidate and will vote for the candidate unenthusiastically.

3.) One third of us who are/were Republicans think a Republican candidate who has liberal views cannot govern effectively, and will bring us to the same ruin that a fully liberal candidate would, with the imprimatur and tacit approval of the conservative voter, albeit in a longer time frame. A large portion of this third will not vote for the candidate under any circumstances.

Between each of these categories are narrow bands of gray that mix the two categories adjacent to each other.

The net result is not a good one, electorally, in my opinion. We are divided broadly, and this puts non-fully-liberal candidates (anyone but a current fully leftist Democrat) at a disadvantage both electorally and financially.

Democrats do, I think, view this much differently than we do, and I am not speaking ideologically, and here is why: Liberalism is like a one way ratchet. Once liberal policies are enacted, they rarely are rolled back.

Think a python eating a pig.

The pig is large, and takes a very long time to get down for the python. But the python knows, as does the pig, that in the end, there is no escaping. Because the teeth of the python only allow movement (however slow) to occur in one direction, full ingestion of the pig is inevitable in this model.

Liberals may not actively realize this in any way since most (except the bottom third of the most hard-core of liberals) do not think about politics at that level. Liberals are a mile wide and an inch deep. Even though they may not realize that the one-way ratchet of liberalism is a long, slow, inevitability, deep in their political hindbrains, they know it.

As a result, even though the interests of liberals may be as widely disparate and divided as those of conservatives (or ostensible conservatives) are, they do not have any problem whatsoever voting for or contributing to a candidate who is only half as liberal as they would like, because they know some small portion of their liberal interest will be acted on, and they will eventually get there.

Bottom line: They can be patient and have the latitude to do so, because time and the direction of movement is on their side. Conservatives do not have that luxury, and as a result, our outlook is by necessity, more sharply delineated and focused.

This is a pessimistic outlook, but I fail to see how we can have any outlook other than a pessimistic one at this time.

But because I am pessimistic, that does not mean I have lost hope. This country has seen grim times before, and will again. We are not in those grim times yet, but when things are still this good and we have people rioting because of sneakers on sale, one has to wonder what will happen when our industrial, agriculture and energy sectors are finally destroyed, and food becomes scarce.

The rule of law and the integrity of legal contracts have already been discounted by our government (see recently, treatment of investors during the bailout and the non-prosecution of the New Black Panther Party) and there are now crimes being openly committed that are no longer prosecuted.

The optimist in me says this can all be turned around. But the pessimist in me says it isn’t going to take half measures, and at this time, there is no stomach (except in the lower one third of conservatives described above) for full measures.


33 posted on 04/16/2012 4:31:34 AM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: Mozilla

Conservatives in the USA are basically a niche group...a minority. Like the liberals they have to realize that they will never become mainstream.


34 posted on 04/16/2012 4:35:11 AM PDT by NRG1973
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To: stig
Romney looks like Ronald Regan when compared to Barak Obama...Point of fact Ronald Regan didn't get the nomination the first time he ran for President. But God bless the man he kept fighting for the nomination until he could win it.

Sadly, even 30+ years later, some people still don't know how to spell his freakin' name.

Dammit man, it's THIS guy:



Not THIS guy:


35 posted on 04/16/2012 4:39:34 AM PDT by mkjessup (Finley Peter Dunne- "Politics ain't beanbag")
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To: RC one
It seems unlikely that conservatives will find more political representation by abandoning the GOP. It seems more likely that all of the progress conservatives have managed to make over the past years will be undone...

BWHAHAHAHA! What are you SMOKING?

36 posted on 04/16/2012 4:39:53 AM PDT by .30Carbine (God bless you with the spirit of wisdom and understanding)
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To: rlmorel

I agree, r. Very, very well stated. I’m somewhere between #2 - #3, in that “gray area”, I guess. I just don’t see a choice for America, at this point. We have to get that POS out of The White Crib, at any cost. Otherwise, America is past the point of *no return*. We may already be there, I don’t know for sure, but I’m not giving-up without a fight for Her.

Post of the week: “Liberals are a mile wide and an inch deep.”
Perfect!


37 posted on 04/16/2012 4:41:25 AM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
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To: NRG1973

What the heck are you doing on this site?!


38 posted on 04/16/2012 4:48:28 AM PDT by .30Carbine (God bless you with the spirit of wisdom and understanding)
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To: Mozilla
I disagree with your premise.

The GOP isn't finished nor divided.

Republican voters need to stop letting the #$%^ing Media pick our candidates for us.

The Media talked us into John McCain and now Mitt Romney!

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

When voters are too lazy to pay attention to what's going on and just blindly follow the lead of the Media, this is what we get!

Unfortunately, this is a problem on both sides of the isle. At least with Liberals they have the advantage of agreeing with the Media viewpoint. This country will continue to circle the drain until we take control back from those truly running the show. The Mainstream Media has been running this country since just after WWII and its time for it to stop.

39 posted on 04/16/2012 4:52:02 AM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: rlmorel

Excellent commentary, rlmorel.


40 posted on 04/16/2012 4:55:14 AM PDT by stilloftyhenight
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To: NRG1973

THe facts of life are conservative. Most people are not on the public dole and work for a living.


41 posted on 04/16/2012 5:03:35 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Mozilla

If conservatives tarted a new national party that could attract 40% every time at minimum, what makes you think they would unite. When Socons call Fiscons not real conservatives, and Fiscons say Socons are big government conservatives, and Socons call libertarians commie appeasers and there is a debate on how to use the military, it makes it hard to believe they will ever come together in some new, mythical party.


42 posted on 04/16/2012 5:04:04 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: .30Carbine
What the heck are you doing on this site?!

I'm conservative but I realize that the country changes with the times. I'm pragamatic about the 21st century US population.

The two parties should be trying to move to the center to capture as much of the voting public as they can. Right now, the GOP is doing a better job of moving to the center as 0bama and the left are trying to move the country to the left. The GOP leadership who is managing the evolution of the party knows what they are doing. I expect that the GOP will win this November's elections because 0bama and the left scare the hell out of the "straights". We need to go with the flow on this one and try to get as much as we can out of it.

43 posted on 04/16/2012 5:04:43 AM PDT by NRG1973
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To: NTHockey
This country is divided as never since 1860. It is too big to manage. Let the South rise again. Forcibly deport all LIBs to the North and likewise, let Conservatives live in a free country. Deo vindice

We are brothers, SIc Semper Tyrannis.

44 posted on 04/16/2012 5:04:59 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Mozilla

The Presidential Election is going to have only two results;

America wins

or

America loses


45 posted on 04/16/2012 5:11:59 AM PDT by reaganator
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To: rlmorel

Put me in the third category.

I can tell you what I am doing. For the first one in almost thirty years I am vegetable gardening again and have three cords of wood seasoning and another left over from last year. I am set up to harvest over 12,000 gal of rain a year now and more coming an line. Our needs for food, energy, water can be met right here, right now. Good Luck, and God Bless!


46 posted on 04/16/2012 5:13:16 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Mozilla

I haven’t voted yet. We’ll see after the dust settles what the future may bring.


47 posted on 04/16/2012 5:14:03 AM PDT by McGruff (Don't go wobbly on me now Newt. You're our only hope.)
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To: NRG1973
Shame on you, chicken-hearted coward!

48 posted on 04/16/2012 5:16:00 AM PDT by .30Carbine (God bless you with the spirit of wisdom and understanding)
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To: NRG1973
The GOP leadership who is managing the evolution of the party knows what they are doing.

Oh, that's funny. The GOP 'leadership' left the GOP a tattered, soul-less shell by the 2008 elections. It was conservative Tea Partiers who made the 2010 election successes possible. But there are always pinheaded twerps like you who break out the RINO pom-poms every four years to try and convince us that the GOP-E has a clue on how to win, let alone govern.

49 posted on 04/16/2012 5:17:46 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Mozilla

It is NOT too late to push Newt to the top.


50 posted on 04/16/2012 5:18:20 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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