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Aldi Customer Who Shot Armed Robber Sues for Return of His Gun(WI)
abajournal.com ^ | 16 April, 2012 | Debra Cassens Weiss

Posted on 04/16/2012 8:05:30 AM PDT by marktwain

An Aldi customer in Milwaukee who shot and wounded an armed robber is suing police for the return of his gun.

Nazir Al-Mujaahid had a concealed weapons permit to carry the gun, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel blog Proof & Hearsay. In February, prosecutors said Al-Mujaahid was within his legal rights when he shot the man who pointed a shotgun at a cashier and then at Al-Mujaahid, according to a prior Journal Sentinel story.

But police are keeping Al-Mujaahid’s gun as evidence in the case against two men accused in the robbery. Wisconsin Carry Inc., a gun rights group, is helping Al-Mujaahid in his quest for return of the gun. The suit filed last week claims a violation of Al-Mujaahid’s due process rights.

(Excerpt) Read more at abajournal.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: banglist; cash; ccw; debit; ebt; gun; wi; wisconsin
It is a common problem for police, especially in large cities, to refuse to return guns until they have a court order forcing them to do so.

As obtaining a court order often costs many times the cost of the gun, the practice becomes equivilant to legalized theft.

1 posted on 04/16/2012 8:05:40 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Could one refuse to hand over the gun at the scene to the officers? I’m not sure thats the wisest thing to do but i’m just wondering. Would they have to get a warrant to take it then?


2 posted on 04/16/2012 8:10:19 AM PDT by Shamrock498
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To: marktwain
Al-Mujaahid has filed three other suits for return of guns seized in prior incidents. He won two of the cases; a third is pending. He received a concealed carry permit last year under a new Wisconsin law, despite a juvenile record of armed robbery, the Journal Sentinel says. The law allowed the permit because the offense occurred prior before April 1994.

....Sound of screeching tires and record scratch here.....

Everyone needs to read the rest of the article. There is an eyebrow to be raised. Nothing necessarily illegal here but either this guy has a very good reason for having and often using his concealed carry permit or is the luckiest/unluckiest "good citizen" I've ever heard of.

Three incidents in a year? He is a one man crime stopper and citizen hero or something.

3 posted on 04/16/2012 8:17:02 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (With regards to the GOP: I am prodisestablishmentarianistic!)
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To: marktwain
Nazir Al-Mujaahid

Shouldn't O'Moslem sent the media to his defense immediately? And maybe some "my people" Eric Holder "peacekeepers" ?

4 posted on 04/16/2012 8:21:54 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: marktwain

Just write a reg that says if the officer who is responsible for returning the gun does not do so after x amount of days faces a charge for theft and has to pay a fine to the court plus a garnishment their paycheck which goes to pay the victim for the theft.

Now how fast do you think those firearms would return to their rightful owners?


5 posted on 04/16/2012 8:25:43 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Tenacious 1
Three incidents in a year?

This makes the 4th incident. I am speechless.

6 posted on 04/16/2012 8:28:50 AM PDT by houeto
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To: marktwain

This is the problem here in Florida. Use a gun in self defense, and you don’t even have to shoot someone, the POPO
takes the gun and good luck getting it back.


7 posted on 04/16/2012 8:35:06 AM PDT by baddog 219
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Until a case is adjudicated, ALL evidence has to remain locked up. Once the chain of evidence is broken, the entire case against the defendants will be thrown out. Not can, will.

Allowing emotions and stating ignorant comments only serve to inflame the situation and make things worse for everybody. These comments are no different than the ones used against Zimmerman and the La Crosse athletes.

8 posted on 04/16/2012 8:38:01 AM PDT by Glennb51
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To: Glennb51

I fully agree, but if an individual’s firearm is kept after the case is adjudicated that is a problem!


9 posted on 04/16/2012 8:42:20 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Glennb51
Until a case is adjudicated, ALL evidence has to remain locked up. Once the chain of evidence is broken, the entire case against the defendants will be thrown out. Not can, will.

I don't understand how a good guy's gun is evidence in a crime. Do police have their guns confiscated?

10 posted on 04/16/2012 8:42:35 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Tenacious 1
Three incidents in a year? He is a one man crime stopper and citizen hero or something.

I am not sure if the three incidents are all in one year. The process usually takes quite a bit of time.

More likely, the police do not want him to be able to carry a gun and have been harrassing him.

11 posted on 04/16/2012 8:45:11 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Glennb51
Allowing emotions and stating ignorant comments only serve to inflame the situation and make things worse for everybody.

In what possible way can the gun used by the Customer to stop the robbers, be evidence for or against the robbers?

12 posted on 04/16/2012 8:46:23 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: Moonman62
I don't understand how a good guy's gun is evidence in a crime.

Ditto.

13 posted on 04/16/2012 8:50:58 AM PDT by Niteranger68 (Quit poking holes in the life raft!)
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To: Glennb51
" Until a case is adjudicated, ALL evidence has to remain locked up.
Once the chain of evidence is broken, the entire case against
the defendants will be thrown out. Not can, will."
fine, then the gun owner should receive a exact type/kind
of firearm for protection from the prep's friends
or are the police just (armed) civil historians.

14 posted on 04/16/2012 8:53:23 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (the DNC/RNC = D.C. Establishment...an Brazilian saying: $AME OLD $H!T, W!TH D!FFERENT FL!E$. :^)
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To: Tenacious 1

Where does it say the previous incidents happened in one year?

In any case, it certainly seems that Nazir was the hero in ending the Aldi’s holdup. He “shot and wounded a man who was waving a gun at cashiers and customers.” He should get a reward.


15 posted on 04/16/2012 8:56:12 AM PDT by iowamark
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To: marktwain
...the practice becomes equivilant to legalized theft.

Something that our government has grown quite comfortable with in far too many ways.
16 posted on 04/16/2012 8:57:10 AM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: Moonman62
I don't understand how a good guy's gun is evidence in a crime. Do police have their guns confiscated?
Right. I would love to read an official explanation and an answer to your question.
17 posted on 04/16/2012 9:01:58 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: Glennb51
police are keeping Al-Mujaahid’s gun as evidence in the case against two men
Until a case is adjudicated, ALL evidence has to remain locked up. Once the chain of evidence is broken, the entire case against the defendants will be thrown out. Not can, will.

Evidence of WHAT?!?

This isn't the perp's gun; and it can be PROVED that the perp was at the scene and in possession of the shotgun; and was attempting armed robbery totally in absence of this "piece of evidence"; it makes as much sense as confiscating the brown stained pants the cashier was wearing, to prove he crapped them in order to show 'he feared for his life' during the robbery.

Are all COPS' guns confiscated (let's think SWAT teams here) and put into the evidence locker every time they are pulled, let alone fired; and kept until any resulting case is adjudicated?

Is the gun being kept as evidence in case that Nazir is ever prosecuted for shooting the perp...a "case" that has never been filed?

How much IRRELEVANT "evidence" do cops need, for the DA to prove that these perps were at the scene; were armed; and demanded money?

Let's just close down the business, and put the whole damned thing into the evidence locker, while they're at it.

18 posted on 04/16/2012 9:02:23 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: Shamrock498

No, you cannot refuse to hand over the gun. It is evidence. However, once ballistics are conducted and confirmed to have been the weapon that shot the bad guy, I see no reason why it cannot be returned. There is a legal perspective that says the best evidence rule means it has to be retained by the police. If it is needed by the courts in the future, I would think the owner could produce it as necessary.

In 1979 I had a pistol stolen from a house burglary. It was recovered the next week in a raid. I was a reserve deputy at the time. It took almost 15 months to get the weapon and it was a DUTY weapon but it was personaly owned.


19 posted on 04/16/2012 9:06:45 AM PDT by midcop402
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To: marktwain
I am not sure if the three incidents are all in one year. The process usually takes quite a bit of time.

I'm a 2A supporter. I don't think I need creds here for that. I am also objective.

More likely, the police do not want him to be able to carry a gun and have been harassing him.

I don't know what constitutes harassment. Your statement is as speculative as mine. And that's fair. But if I were the detective, I might have some additional questions for the honorable citizen considering this is the 4th time he has saved the day (again presumably). Like, "Al-XYZ, what were you doing at Aldi's?". "Did you know the perp?" "Do you play the lottery?" "Do you have any Children?" "Have you ever applied to an LEO academy?" "What do you think of the job our local LEO's do protecting our neighborhood?"

If we give Al-xyz the benefit of the doubt and suggest he turned 18 in 1995, he has been involved in 4 incidents in which his gun was (presumably) confiscated as evidence. He has a juvenile record of armed robbery.

The article doesn't suggest he is under investigation or that he has broken any laws. There is a little innuendo at the end of the short story that could point to some bias by a liberal reporter. But objectively, the man's history with criminal involvement is cause for pause and consideration.

If his firearm is legitimate evidence, I do not see where he has been treated unfairly. He shot a perp that was in the process of committing a felony. The gun links the witness to the scene and corroborates his testimony to put the scumbag in jail.

As I said, I presume he should be nominated for Crime Stopping Citizen of the decade if not year. Otherwise, he should move to a safer neighborhood. He could very well be just a very lucky (or unlucky) citizen. So I give him and local LEO the benefit of the doubt on this one.

20 posted on 04/16/2012 9:10:06 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (With regards to the GOP: I am prodisestablishmentarianistic!)
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To: samtheman; Moonman62
In what possible way can the gun used by the Customer to stop the robbers, be evidence for or against the robbers?

I don't doubt the man is a hero. He should be rewarded.

Evidence: The gun links the shooter (hero) to the scene and corroborates his testimony in the trial. He states, "It's my gun. I was there. This is what I saw." Fingerprints on the gun, some ballistics test and gunpowder residue prove forensically that whatever he says is credible.

21 posted on 04/16/2012 9:15:39 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (With regards to the GOP: I am prodisestablishmentarianistic!)
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To: marktwain; Hunton Peck; Diana in Wisconsin; P from Sheb; Shady; DonkeyBonker; Wisconsinlady; JPG; ..

Wisconsin Concealed Carry Aldi ping

FReep Mail me if you want on, or off, this Wisconsin interest ping list.


22 posted on 04/16/2012 9:19:36 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: marktwain

Recognizing the need to preserve evidence for a criminal trial while paying heed to the constitutional prohibition of unlawful taking of property the government should pay the replacement costs of a comparable gun.


23 posted on 04/16/2012 9:23:10 AM PDT by monocle
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To: Tenacious 1
Evidence: The gun links the shooter (hero) to the scene and corroborates his testimony in the trial.

So do the brown-stained pants of the cashier...were they confiscated and locked up, too?

There is "evidence"; and there is "reasonable evidence"; then there is this kind of "reasoning": the gun has to be used to prove that this guy was there as a witness, or his testimony is no good.

Where is the similar "evidence" similarly linking ALL THE OTHER WITNESSES? Where does it end?

24 posted on 04/16/2012 9:38:08 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: ApplegateRanch
Where is the similar "evidence" similarly linking ALL THE OTHER WITNESSES? Where does it end?

I don't know what other evidence they have or need. And neither do you. What is the judge's history on what he accepts as evidence? What is the local Defense Attorney's tendency and record to defend these cases?

I answered the common question you asked and the common response that seems to be legally acceptable. It's a chain of evidence that makes all evidence stronger. If we assume that a jury is logical and can make reasonable inferences about the legitimacy of evidence and testimony....you get the point.

It's not that uncommon for the prosecution to hold useless evidence because they are afraid of what they might need unexpectedly later.

I am not supposing it's right or necessarily wrong. I don't know all the information. Oddly, this is at least the 4th time the police have confiscated his weapon as evidence. That pistol has apparently put a lot of bad guys in jail. Maybe it's good luck for the LEO to hold on to it. They should name this man's weapons Rabbit Foot.

25 posted on 04/16/2012 9:49:12 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (With regards to the GOP: I am prodisestablishmentarianistic!)
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To: marktwain

Yet another reason to own more than one gun.


26 posted on 04/16/2012 10:01:14 AM PDT by Nachoman (I HOPE we CHANGE presidents.)
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To: Glennb51

Until a case is adjudicated, ALL evidence has to remain locked up. Once the chain of evidence is broken, the entire case against the defendants will be thrown out. Not can, will.

Allowing emotions and stating ignorant comments only serve to inflame the situation and make things worse for everybody. These comments are no different than the ones used against Zimmerman and the La Crosse athletes.

***********

No so. It is really a stretch to call the gun “evidence.” There is no dispute that the robbery victim shot the perp and that he was shot with that gun. The D.A. would need the gun a evidence only if there was a dispute over what the robbery victim did. The owner should be able to get the gun back by stipulating that the gun was used to shoot the robber.


27 posted on 04/16/2012 10:18:34 AM PDT by Socon-Econ (Socon-Econ)
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To: Moonman62

Yes


28 posted on 04/16/2012 11:47:32 AM PDT by Glennb51
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To: ApplegateRanch

You don’t like it, change the rules of evidence.


29 posted on 04/16/2012 11:51:54 AM PDT by Glennb51
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To: Moonman62
I don't understand how a good guy's gun is evidence in a crime.

Prosecutor (to perp): In February of 2012 did you brandish a shotgun at a cashier in an Aldi store in Milwaukee?

Perp: No sir.

Prosecutor (to perp): Is this the gun that Nazir Al-Mujaahid used to shoot you?

Perp: Yes sir.

Prosecutor: I rest my case.

30 posted on 04/16/2012 3:44:56 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Tenacious 1; All

Here is a link to a previous article. It has a little more information.

Many urban police departments have a policy of confiscating all weapons that they come across, then refusing to return them unless they get a court order.

Milwaukee even has a special court to handle such actions, which is a plus. I recall reading an article that showed a number of people had to go to court more than once to have firearms returned to them.

http://www.red-alerts.com/un-american-activities/milwaukee-cops-stealing-citizens-guns/


31 posted on 04/16/2012 8:32:08 PM PDT by marktwain
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