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Biden says most shootings happen with victimís own gun
politifact.com ^ | 16 April, 2012 | The Truth-O-Meter

Posted on 04/17/2012 7:58:27 AM PDT by marktwain

In an interview on CBS’ Face the Nation, Vice President Joe Biden was asked about the Trayvon Martin killing in Sanford, Fla.

"Do you, on balance, think these laws are good laws?" host Bob Schieffer asked in the April 1, 2012, program, referring to Florida’s "stand your ground" self-defense law and others around the country.

Biden said he thinks it’s important to protect Second Amendment rights but expressed skepticism of laws that could result in people putting themselves in harm’s way. He said he’s "not so sure of" the idea that owning and carrying guns makes people safer.

He also threw out this claim about gun violence: "You know, the bulk of the people who are shot with a weapon — other than these drug gangs taking on one another — end up being shot with their own weapon."

We decided to check that out.

Biden’s office pointed us to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which shows that the majority of firearm deaths in the U.S. are by suicide, and most suicides are committed with the deceased's own gun.

David Hemenway, a public health professor at Harvard University, looked at 2009 specifically and noted that the CDC figures show 18,735 firearm suicides; 11,493 firearm homicides; and some 554 unintentional firearm deaths. "The large majority of firearm suicides use their own (or the family gun), while the large majority of firearm homicides are shot with someone else’s gun," Hemenway said.

So Biden’s statement, in Hemenway’s estimation, is "very likely true" if Biden was talking only about firearm deaths.

Statistics that include non-fatal shootings paint a different picture, with more resulting from assaults than from suicides.

"The estimates of non-fatal shootings are very rough (estimated from under 100 emergency departments), but the CDC estimates from 2009 are only 3,000 plus non-fatal suicide shootings, compared to over 44,000 assault shootings," he said.

Including non-fatal shootings in the study group, Hemenway said, makes Biden’s statement "very likely untrue" because people don’t typically become the victim of assaults with their own guns.

Donald Braman, a law professor at George Washington University, also said the statement is "probably technically true but also misleading as most gun fatalities are suicides."

"Biden's claim implies that people are having their weapons turned against them by someone else when, in fact, the modal gun death is probably a debt-ridden farmer," Braman wrote in an email.

We agree that Biden did not seem to be talking about suicides. He was answering a question about self-defense laws and the danger of people putting themselves in harm’s way. And certainly the Martin killing was unrelated to suicide.

"What Biden seems to be saying," Braman wrote, "is that the likelihood that you will shoot someone with a gun you buy in self-defense is smaller than the likelihood that you (or someone in your household) will be shot with that same gun. That is technically true unless you start excluding suicides, etc. -- then I don't know -- and he's got a point: guns most often injure people in the gun owner's household, not an intruder or stranger.

"But it is also potentially misleading in two ways. First, it suggests that people who buy guns are more likely to be harmed than protected by a gun they buy. We just don't have good data on that. … Second, it suggests that the harms people are suffering are at the hands of others, when (as I pointed out before) most of the time it is a suicide or suicide attempt."

Our ruling

Biden said "the bulk" of people who are shot with a weapon are shot with their own weapon. The numbers that back up that statement refer only to fatal shootings, including a high proportion of suicides. CDC figures show, and our experts verified, that the majority of gun deaths are suicides, and the majority of suicides are committed with a person’s own gun or a gun owned by someone in the household.

Although the numbers for non-fatal shootings are rough, such assaults typically don't involve the use of the victim's gun, experts told us. Biden cited a true statistic but left out the important detail and context that he was talking only about fatal shootings, which would include suicides. That meets our definition of Half True.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; biden; defense; gun
I thought the left championed the ability of people to chose to die when they wish?
1 posted on 04/17/2012 7:58:36 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

I thought they weren’t going to let him out of the home anymore.....


2 posted on 04/17/2012 8:00:00 AM PDT by Jerrybob
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To: marktwain

Most inanities spew from this fool’s own mouth.


3 posted on 04/17/2012 8:00:18 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: marktwain

They do, but if it can be used as a half-truth along the way to restrict guns as well, then it’s a win-win.


4 posted on 04/17/2012 8:01:11 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: marktwain

Interesting comment by a triple A genius.

He really should have a handgun.


5 posted on 04/17/2012 8:01:43 AM PDT by IbJensen (We now have a government requiring citizens prove they are insured but not that they are citizens.)
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To: marktwain
Obama can not be allowed to win a second term.

These sort of declarations by his minions indicate they will attempt more infringement in a long 4 year Hell.

6 posted on 04/17/2012 8:01:55 AM PDT by JOAT
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To: Jerrybob

JB must be one of the most ignorant people in the gov!


7 posted on 04/17/2012 8:04:49 AM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
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To: marktwain

“Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. They may be able to kill you with your gun, but their going to have to beat you to death with it because it will be empty.”


8 posted on 04/17/2012 8:07:13 AM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: marktwain

“Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. They may be able to kill you with your gun, but they’re going to have to beat you to death with it because it will be empty.”


9 posted on 04/17/2012 8:07:28 AM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: marktwain

Delusional.


10 posted on 04/17/2012 8:09:50 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: marktwain
The Biden 2-step:

1. Engage mouth.

2. Engage brain.

11 posted on 04/17/2012 8:10:15 AM PDT by JPG (Hold on tight; rough road ahead.)
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To: marktwain

Once again, he’s not stupid and he’s not delusional.

He’s evil, and he thinks we’re stupid.


12 posted on 04/17/2012 8:10:21 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: martin_fierro
Most inanities spew from this fool’s own mouth.

A little respect please for your future president...

BAH..HAH..HAH..HAH..HAH..HAH!

13 posted on 04/17/2012 8:10:39 AM PDT by bkepley
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To: martin_fierro
Most inanities spew from this fool’s own mouth.

A little respect please for your future president...

BAH..HAH..HAH..HAH..HAH..HAH!

14 posted on 04/17/2012 8:11:51 AM PDT by bkepley
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To: marktwain
Well, at least George Zimmerman can be thankful he's not a statistic for Biden to cite.

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

15 posted on 04/17/2012 8:12:05 AM PDT by cynwoody
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To: marktwain
Biden "not so sure of" the idea that owning and carrying guns makes people safer".

This coming from a man who has 24/7 security to keep him safe, despite the fact there is NO ONE out there who wants to do harm to him.

16 posted on 04/17/2012 8:14:05 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier who has survived 24 months of Combat deployment.)
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To: marktwain

Here’s one I like to use on liberals to watch their heads explode:

A dark night in Hollywood, Nicole Simpson pulls a revolver from her waistband and kills O.J Simpson, thereby saving her life.

Yep

According to these statistics, this would be a family member using a gun to kill another family member.

Turned out much better without a gun involved, didn’t it?


17 posted on 04/17/2012 8:17:02 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: SoldierDad

Why would they?

He is the gift that keeps on giving.


18 posted on 04/17/2012 8:18:35 AM PDT by Sigurdrifta
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To: martin_fierro
Most inanities spew from this fool’s own mouth.

I'm not sure that this is *completely* inane.Like a blind squirrel sometimes does,I think that Vice President Plugs has stumbled across a nut.Certainly not *all* assault/murder victims are shot with their own gun...probably not even *most*,but *some* certainly are.And thus we come to the fear that Mr Zimmerman probably felt when set upon by that "no limits nigga","f**k some bi**h" punk while on neighborhood watch.

19 posted on 04/17/2012 8:19:39 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: marktwain

left out the important detail and context that he was talking only about fatal shootings, which would include suicides................................... Which by the way, increases the Democrat voting pool. They get them to vote in elections after they commit suicide.


20 posted on 04/17/2012 8:21:08 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft ( WHO WE ELECT AS PRESIDENT IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS WHO THEY APPOINT.)
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To: Jerrybob
Is this guy really as stupid as he sounds? How has he lasted this long in Washington being so darn dumb. If he said that bit to dumbness in New Orleans, he'd be laughed out of the 9th ward. We have shootings daily - sometimes multiple daily and the victims are NOT shooting themselves. It is drug dealers/druggies/drunks and just plain rotten people shooting people. Do this so called liberal intellects really believe that muck?
21 posted on 04/17/2012 8:22:49 AM PDT by Bitsy
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To: marktwain
BIDEN LOOSE NUT, LOOSE NUT BEHIND THE WHEEL
22 posted on 04/17/2012 8:25:36 AM PDT by FrankR
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To: marktwain
Crackhead Joe shoots of his undregistered weapon again.
23 posted on 04/17/2012 8:26:06 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: marktwain

You know, it’s becoming a close race as to whether the Obamaloon or Bidencretin is the most stupid.

Really, even the liberals should be able to do better than these two.


24 posted on 04/17/2012 8:29:17 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: marktwain

“Stand Up Joe!”


25 posted on 04/17/2012 8:31:50 AM PDT by hadaclueonce (you are paying 12% more for fuel because of Ethanol. Smile big Corn Lobby,)
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To: marktwain
Biden said he thinks it’s important to protect Second Amendment rights but expressed skepticism of laws that could result in people putting themselves in harm’s way. He said he’s "not so sure of" the idea that owning and carrying guns makes people safer.

He also threw out this claim about gun violence: "You know, the bulk of the people who are shot with a weapon — other than these drug gangs taking on one another — end up being shot with their own weapon."

This makes complete sense if you understand the liberal mind. Liberals believe the proper role of government includes protecting people from themselves. They believe the government is the first and only line of defense. So, it makes sense that they would see no difference between a gunshot wound from a violent crime and an intentional, self-inflicted gunshot wound. Both represent a governmental failure to protect.

Conservatives believe that the individual is the first line of defense. The government is a fallback, at best -- late on the scene, and often in the way. We also believe that the government need not protect people from themselves. Suicide, therefore, is not a government problem ... it is a psychological and sociological one. Don't protect me from myself, and get out of the way when I protect myself from someone else.

SnakeDoc

26 posted on 04/17/2012 8:32:45 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens)
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To: marktwain

That is exactly like saying, “Most intentional overdoses are done using one’s OWN PILLS!”


27 posted on 04/17/2012 8:34:46 AM PDT by Migraine (Diversity is great; until it happens to YOU.)
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To: marktwain
We don't need to over-analysis this — Biden’s just a liar.

Context is everything, and Biden was stating that most people using a gun to defend themselves will have the attacker take the gun from them and use it against them.

That's it. That's what he meant. I know it, you know it, the American people know it.*






*Biden is an idiot.

28 posted on 04/17/2012 8:34:59 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: marktwain
He said he’s "not so sure of" the idea that owning and carrying guns makes people safer

This from a buffoon protected by an armed detail everywhere he goes

29 posted on 04/17/2012 8:37:59 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: marktwain

Joe Biden walks into a bar…and wakes up in the hospital with a concussion.


30 posted on 04/17/2012 8:42:12 AM PDT by RichInOC (Palin 2012: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: Alas Babylon!; marktwain; Travis McGee

” You know, it’s becoming a close race as to whether the Obamaloon or Bidencretin is the most stupid. “

Biden reminds me of Chauncy Gardiner....


31 posted on 04/17/2012 9:26:58 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: marktwain

“I thought the left championed the ability of people to chose to die when they wish?”

Maybe their real concern is about potential competition for their buddies who want to expand from the abortion business into the euthanasia business...


32 posted on 04/17/2012 9:40:55 AM PDT by Hunton Peck (See my FR homepage for a list of businesses that support WI Gov. Scott Walker)
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To: marktwain

Three years ago, on TV, Little Joe B. bragged that his IQ was as high or higher than anyone he knows. I’ve never doubted that.


33 posted on 04/17/2012 9:53:48 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: marktwain
In Biden’s case, the safest thing would be to give him the gun and no ammo. Both Biden and innocent bystanders would be safe. The only thing Biden would have to worry about would be a thug getting his empty gun and beating him to a pulp with it.
34 posted on 04/17/2012 9:58:28 AM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: marktwain
More bias from the inaptly named “truth-o-meter.” How is it a half truth when Biden uses statistics which include suicide, when the question was about “stand your ground” and the rules governing self defense? It's not a half-truth. It's not even a quarter of the truth but nothing more than an attempt to mislead the viewing audience by using statics which are misleading.
35 posted on 04/17/2012 11:24:36 AM PDT by Honcho
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