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To: freedumb2003
The vector-thrust capabilities of the F22 and F35 are incremental at best. Today all the battles are BVR and you can equip a Cessna with avionics needed to conduct mission operations.

That's what was thought when they designed the F4 Phantom without a gun. Then Democrat Rules of Engagement forced pilots to visually identify targets first, which meant that you had to be within dogfighting range.

10 posted on 04/18/2012 4:13:29 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: PapaBear3625

>>That’s what was thought when they designed the F4 Phantom without a gun.<<

Outside of the movie Top Gun (20+ years ago?) has there been a real hot guns dogfight officially recorded between ANY milcraft? Even the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan were BVR (from what I understand).

Rumors leaked out a few years back about an F15 defeating an F22 (or the converse, depending on who was telling the story) in mock dogfight combat, but I don’t think we have seen bullet holes in an American milcraft from another aircraft in a LONG time.

But I would NEVER ask a pilot to be in an aircraft without a gun. Too many SEAD missions need it and it is just wrong for many reasons.


12 posted on 04/18/2012 6:46:40 AM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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