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Magnetic fields can send particles to infinity....[and beyond!]
http://phys.org ^ | 04-17-2012 | Provided by FECYT - Spanish Foundation for Science and Technology

Posted on 04/18/2012 1:17:03 PM PDT by Red Badger

Researchers from the Complutense University of Madrid (UCM, Spain) have mathematically shown that particles charged in a magnetic field can escape into infinity without ever stopping. One of the conditions is that the field is generated by current loops situated on the same plane.

At the moment this is a theoretical mathematical study, but two researchers from UCM have recently proved that, in certain conditions, magnetic fields can send particles to infinity, according to the study published in the journal Quarterly of Applied Mathematics.

"If a particle 'escapes' to infinity it means two things: that it will never stop, and "something else", Antonio Diaz-Cano, one of the authors, explained to SINC. Regarding the first, the particle can never stop, but it can be trapped, doing circles forever around a point, never leaving an enclosed space.

However, the "something else" goes beyond the established limits. "If we imagine a spherical surface with a large radius, the particle will cross the surface going away from it, however big the radius may be" the researcher declares.

Scientists have confirmed through equations that some particles can escape infinity. One condition is that the charges move below the activity of a magnetic field created by current loops on the same plane. Other requirements should also be met: the particle should be on some point on this plane, with its initial speed being parallel to it and far away enough from the loops.

"We are not saying that these are the only conditions to escape infinity, there could be others, but in this case, we have confirmed that the phenomenon occurs", Diaz-Cano states. "We would have liked to have been able to try something more general, but the equations are a lot more complex".

In any case, the researchers recognise that the ideal conditions for this study are "with a magnetic field and nothing else". Reality always has other variables to be considered, such as friction and there is a distant possibility of going towards infinity.

Nonetheless, the movement of particles in magnetic fields is a "very significant" problem in fields such as applied and plasma physics. For example, one of the challenges that the scientists that study nuclear energy face is the confinement of particles to magnetic fields.

Accelerators such as Large Hadron Collider (LHC) of the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) also used magnetic fields to accelerate particles. In these conditions they do not escape to infinity, but they remain doing circles until they acquire the speed that the experiments need.

An infinite mystery

The existence of infinity has been debated since the times of ancient Greek civilisation. The fact that the idea can lead to logical contradictions developed the "fear of infinity", a doubt that has remained over the course of centuries. At the beginning of the twentieth century, the great German mathematician David Hilbert (1862-1943) said that mathematic literature is "riddled with mistakes and absurdities, largely due to infinity". Some experts believe that it has not advanced much since ancient Greek times because debate remains open about current or real infinity (understood as a whole) and potential infinity (which grows or divides with no end) as Aristotle considered. However, it is also true that mathematicians have learned to handle infinity with certain skill, above all the work of the Russian Georg Cantor (1845-1918), which introduced different types of infinity. For example, a countable infinity, with natural numbers, is not the same as a straight, he continued. In any case, infinity is an elusive concept that has also stimulated research in many areas of mathematics, such as infinitesimal calculus. One of this science's big problems during the twentieth century was the "continuum hypothesis". It essentially means knowing if there is an 'intermediate' infinity between countable and continuous infinites. In addition, as well as mathematical infinity, there is a physical one that, at the same time, can have two meanings, one practical and the other cosmological: Is the universe finite or infinite?

More information: A. Díaz-Cano and F. González-Gascón. "Escape to infinity in the presence of magnetic fields". Quarterly of Applied Mathematics 70 (1): 45-51, March 2012.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: astronomy; complutoispasttenseu; energy; physics; space

Now we know where the DARK MATTER all went...............

1 posted on 04/18/2012 1:17:12 PM PDT by Red Badger
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To: Red Badger

Everything everywhere is just a complicated set of magnetic fields anyway.


2 posted on 04/18/2012 1:21:49 PM PDT by wolfpat (Not to know what has been transacted in former times is to be always a child. -- Cicero)
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To: Red Badger

My kid has a Buzz Lightyear toy and I often hear the phrase to infinity and beyond.


3 posted on 04/18/2012 1:23:36 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: Red Badger

Violates Conservation of Mass/Energy. There’s an error in the formulation and/or interpretation of the equations.


4 posted on 04/18/2012 1:24:52 PM PDT by bagman
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To: Red Badger

I think somebody dropped a decimal point somewhere.


5 posted on 04/18/2012 1:31:30 PM PDT by Falcon4.0
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To: bagman

It balances out if it takes infinite energy to produce the field.


6 posted on 04/18/2012 1:32:04 PM PDT by battlecry
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To: bagman

I can see no meaning in the phrase “Sending particles to infinity”.


7 posted on 04/18/2012 1:34:21 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Red Badger

so then, eventually, like after a really really long time, what happens to the fields?


8 posted on 04/18/2012 1:35:41 PM PDT by MNDude
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To: battlecry

Does not a photon (particle, wave, whatever) always go to infinity? What stops it?


9 posted on 04/18/2012 1:35:58 PM PDT by Huebolt (It's not over until there is not ONE DEMOCRAT HOLDING OFFICE ANYWHERE. Not even a dog catcher!)
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To: wolfpat
Everything everywhere is just a complicated set of magnetic fields anyway.

Especially on the Internet.

10 posted on 04/18/2012 1:36:13 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Red Badger

There is actually a lot behind “The Big Bang Theory” Sheldon’s relentless pursuit of monopoles.

If you could harness a magnetic field with only one pole AND reproduce that monopole, the energy could be as unlimited as nuclear fusion.


11 posted on 04/18/2012 1:36:18 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: Red Badger

So now all we’ve to to do is figure out how to reduce Obama to a particle


12 posted on 04/18/2012 1:36:52 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: Huebolt

>> What stops it?<<

Boredom...


13 posted on 04/18/2012 1:39:05 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: freedumb2003

Great new particle! The bored photon. Like the Bohr atom?


14 posted on 04/18/2012 1:41:39 PM PDT by Huebolt (It's not over until there is not ONE DEMOCRAT HOLDING OFFICE ANYWHERE. Not even a dog catcher!)
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To: Huebolt

>>The bored photon<<

The boron? The boson’s mate?


15 posted on 04/18/2012 1:43:24 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: wolfpat
Everything everywhere is just a complicated set of magnetic fields anyway.

Isn't the current thinking magnetic fields are carried by a foam of virtual particles? If there's an edge to the foam the energy would just disappear into a bit bucket.

16 posted on 04/18/2012 1:45:59 PM PDT by Reeses
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To: bagman
"Violates Conservation of Mass/Energy."

Anthony Kennedy could wake up cranky one day and Conservation of Mass/Energy would be history 5-4.

17 posted on 04/18/2012 1:47:32 PM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: Pride in the USA

Ping for something above my pay grade, but maybe not yours.


18 posted on 04/18/2012 1:50:06 PM PDT by lonevoice (Klepto Baracka Marxo, impeach we much.)
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To: Red Badger

Sort of like our first foreign born Muslim in disguise openly Marxist mulatto-who-makes-pretend-he-is-100%-black unconstitutionally qualified POTUS and his “The rich must pay their fair share” rant. He never stops with that, he goes on to infinity no matter what data is shoved in his face.

“The rich must pay their fair share” “But they are, more than enough” “The rich must pay their fair share” “But they are, more than enough” “The rich must pay their fair share” “But they are, more than enough” “The rich must pay their fair share” “But they are, more than enough” “The rich must pay their fair share....X infinity


19 posted on 04/18/2012 1:53:12 PM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Someday our schools will teach the difference between lose and loose.)
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To: Huebolt
Does not a photon (particle, wave, whatever) always go to infinity? What stops it?

It goes to infinity until it hits something that stops it, although physicists usually to say "scatters" instead of "hits."

A photon is a little bitty snip of electric field and a little bitty snip of magnetic field kind of wrapped around each other so that each traps the other, and each keeps regenerating the other.

This amazing balanced dance only works if the whole shebang is moving at the speed of light through some non-conducting medium. Anything happens to disturb that, and the phonton pops like a bubble.

20 posted on 04/18/2012 1:53:54 PM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: bigbob
So now all we’ve to to do is figure out how to reduce Obama to a particle.

We need an "Obama particle". It is always negative. It takes its energy from other particles. It leaves a huge negative balance all while doing nothing itself.

21 posted on 04/18/2012 2:10:33 PM PDT by Rapscallion (Taxes are taken by governments from profits and pay earned by those who work.)
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To: DManA
I can see no meaning in the phrase “Sending particles to infinity”.

Try wrestling with "beyond" infinity.

22 posted on 04/18/2012 2:37:53 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Haggai 1, V6.. and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. (My plight))
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To: MNDude

They get overgrown with weeds..............


23 posted on 04/18/2012 2:41:43 PM PDT by Red Badger (Think logically. Act normally.................)
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To: Red Badger
One of the conditions is that the field is generated by current loops situated on the same plane

The branes in Spain stay mainly in the plane...

24 posted on 04/18/2012 2:57:12 PM PDT by mikrofon (Astro BUMP)
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To: Red Badger
Researchers from the Complutense University of Madrid

They must do their graduate study at Compluperfectense University....

25 posted on 04/18/2012 3:03:17 PM PDT by mikrofon (Astro BUMP)
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To: Red Badger
"things aren't as they seem, nor are they otherwise..."
26 posted on 04/18/2012 3:32:30 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Red Badger

Are we being confused with infinity and existence?


27 posted on 04/18/2012 3:57:29 PM PDT by noinfringers3
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To: Red Badger

>Is the universe finite or infinite?

The one we live in is likely still expanding.

Beyond this universe there are likely infinite big bangs creating infinite universes. I see no reason to draw a line
in space and claim it as the end of everything.

Humans can’t define infinitely big or small and just settle for shoes that fit comfortably.


28 posted on 04/18/2012 5:50:43 PM PDT by soycd
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To: Red Badger
However, the "something else" goes beyond the established limits.

Doesn't it always!
29 posted on 04/18/2012 5:54:26 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Red Badger

How fast?

Because if it’s traveling at the speed of sound, it’s really unremarkable.


30 posted on 04/18/2012 5:57:00 PM PDT by airborne (Paratroopers! Good to the last drop!)
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To: Red Badger
Crap, I thought this read the way it did because it was Google-translated from Spanish, but then I went to the site and found it was in English to begin with:

Here is the intro from the paper:

1. Introduction. The late Prof. Ulam, cf. [1], repeatedly stressed the importance of the study of the magnetic field B created by closed (cyclic or periodic) wires, as a source of mathematical problems: the presence of knotted streamlines of B, ergodic streamlines in open sets of R3, applications in plasma physics and biology, [2]. Recently, [3], the unreachability of the wires (the sources of B) when a charged particle moves in R3 under the presence of B was proved either for a finite number of parallel wires (that is, for a finite number of parallel straight lines) or for a finite number of circular wires, lying on parallel planes πi, its centers lying on a straight line L orthogonal to the planes πi. We study in this paper the escape to infinity of electric charges under the presence of the magnetic field B created by closed wires traversed by electrical intensities Ii. It is assumed that the electric charges interact with B via the Lorentz equation, x¨ = x˙ ∧ B. (1.1) For electric charges, interacting with the electric field E created by pointlike charges, escape to infinity was studied in [4]–[5]. The reader should have a look at references [6] and [7], where Matsuno and Goriely and Hyde studied the escape of Rn vector fields via Painlev´e analysis. The references in [8]–[22] are also useful concerning the escape for polynomial vector fields.

Concerning escape to infinity in the presence of magnetic fields B(x) created or not created by a finite number of cyclic wires, the authors are not aware of previous references studying this problem.
31 posted on 04/18/2012 6:22:25 PM PDT by aruanan
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