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Foolish teacher arrested for firing blanks at his students
MSN.com ^ | 4/19/2012

Posted on 04/20/2012 12:30:18 AM PDT by South40

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To: Frenetic74
Isn't insulting someone then complaining when you get it back a liberal thing?

"It's not the same when 'we' do it!" Wahhhhhh

51 posted on 04/22/2012 12:06:52 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

I wasn’t complaining I was feeling sorry for you.


52 posted on 04/22/2012 12:11:45 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: Frenetic74
Now you're lying. You were insulting me and then you cried when I gave it back in kind. Typical neurotic liberal thinking.

Also, your impassioned emotional rant is more indicative of leftist/liberal group-think than logic and reason. ... All I’m trying to do here is help people to NOT be tools.

Look up Argumentum ad Hominem and Ignoratio Elenchi. Good grief :/

Look up 'projection' in a psychiatric manual. The only one doing any emotional ranting here is you.

53 posted on 04/22/2012 12:19:02 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

If you bothered to carefully read it you would notice that I didn’t actually accuse you personally of anything...I said your “rant” sounded liberal (not you are a liberal) and “help people” (which I may or may not actually be referring to) but since you now show a guilty conscious (otherwise why be insulted by something not directed at you?)...I’ll take your last post as an apology.

You also failed to mention anything about Ignoratio Elenchi so I’ll assume you ceded that one too.


54 posted on 04/22/2012 2:10:00 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: Frenetic74
...I’ll take your last post as an apology.

Providing yet more proof that you're detached from reality.

55 posted on 04/22/2012 2:11:33 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Frenetic74
...you would notice that I didn’t actually accuse you personally of anything...I said your “rant” sounded liberal (not you are a liberal) and “help people” (which I may or may not actually be referring to) ...

How cute! That's so Saul Alinsky to couch your insults in a way that you can parse them out later, like a Clinton, to mean anything you want them to.

56 posted on 04/22/2012 2:13:57 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Frenetic74
You also failed to mention anything about Ignoratio Elenchi ...

Your pretentiousness was noted ... as the failure to convince me of your intellectual sophistication that it was.

57 posted on 04/22/2012 2:17:09 PM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do.)
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To: Frenetic74
...I didn’t actually accuse you personally of anything...I said your “rant” sounded liberal...

Hey, teacher! Isn't "your" a personal pronoun?

58 posted on 04/22/2012 2:26:24 PM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do.)
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To: TigersEye

Which reality? The one where you’ve displayed a preference for emotion over reason and logical fallacies over logic instead of just admit and accept that your thinking was inferior to mine?

When I said I felt sorry for you I meant it…so go run along you bore me.


59 posted on 04/22/2012 2:27:26 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: Frenetic74
Feeling sorry for me is your emotional handicap. There was nothing emotional about anything I have said. The fact is the teacher endangered himself and his students by pulling his stupid and illegal stunt. There is nothing illogical about seeing the potential consequences of actions. Only a liberal thinks there won't be any.

Now you run along and try and convince someone else you have a brain because you failed miserably here with your moral equivalence and your dissembling ignorance of your own words.

60 posted on 04/22/2012 2:35:39 PM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do.)
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To: Frenetic74
Good for you fighting a guerilla war of education. I'm doing my part with med students, interns, residents, nursing and paramedics. I've faced the same beast with the education as well as the state/federal licensing bureaucrats. I've taken a very circuitous route with trips through armed forces making it possible for college and post graduate education.

I still remember certain high school and college teachers, so you are sowing seeds that will take many years to grow, but at least your fighting ... good job.

61 posted on 04/22/2012 4:55:34 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: Frenetic74

I am a conservative constitutionalist and a high school biology teacher

Gee, no bias there, nope. You realy are a stupid noob if you can’t understand what a perceived threat is or that it is against the law to do so. Pulling a gun on someone, real or not, is the same thing as saying verbaly, I am about to shoot you.


62 posted on 04/22/2012 5:16:12 PM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: eastforker

Being that you weren’t at the scene and have no idea what really happened, what transpired or what was said between the teacher and the students or even the circumstances surrounding the event, you have no basis for making a judgment in this matter. All you know is a tiny manipulated fraction of a much larger story.

But I guess you are too caught up with emotions to realize you are not the police, the investigator, the superintendent of the school system the jury and judge in whatever case that may or may not be brought to court as well as the fact that this guy must be treated as innocent until proven guilty. I guess you are also ok with the notion that this guy could get 60 years in jail over a perceived weapon (but not a real one) while no one was actually harmed and that out of control gun control laws have supplanted common sense.

You see, in my eyes you are no different than all the goons calling for George Zimmerman’s head; manipulated by a biased media and quick to pass judgment while being devoid of facts, reason and understanding of the circumstances.

Your mentality is mob…mine is American. You have already convicted this man in your mind...I prefer to wait until he has his day in court and the full story is known. And you are calling me stupid?


63 posted on 04/23/2012 3:03:02 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: TigersEye

Read my post to eastforker because it applies to you as well.


64 posted on 04/23/2012 3:04:40 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: TigersEye

It would only be a personal pronoun if it was referring to you personally. ‘You’re’ is a contraction that = ‘you are’. ‘Your’ is the possessive form of you, referring to something that you have or something that belongs to you...the person I’m talking to. ‘You are rant’ make as much sense as you do...none.

My use of the word was grammatically correct. Go back to school...you obviously need a good teacher.


65 posted on 04/23/2012 3:28:40 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: Dick Vomer

Thanks. The types of things I’m involved in are coaching and co-sponsoring the young republicans club. I’m also working with several teachers to bring “Character Counts” to our schools. Extracurricular stuff includes being a member of the NJ Tea Party, NRA and the Heritage Foundation.


66 posted on 04/23/2012 3:49:20 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: Frenetic74

No thanks. I’ve read enough of your idiocy. Take a hike!


67 posted on 04/23/2012 10:34:23 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Frenetic74

Not a personal pronoun? Good Gawd! what a bonehead.


68 posted on 04/23/2012 10:36:20 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: eastforker
Well, lookie here, two men charged with reckless endangerment and no one was hurt by their actions.

Two men arrested for planting deadly booby traps on Utah walking trail

69 posted on 04/23/2012 12:23:48 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Some people are just too damn stupid, Communicating a threat does not have to be verbal. You can communicate a threat by actions and never say a word.


70 posted on 04/23/2012 12:31:38 PM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: eastforker

The Washington County Sheriff and the local prosecutor certainly think so.


71 posted on 04/23/2012 12:38:18 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Frenetic74
All I’m trying to do here is help people to NOT be tools.

You & those like you are the reason I home school. IF my child had been in that class & hit that moron with a hammer I would have been proud. You are the tool!

72 posted on 04/23/2012 1:08:44 PM PDT by pandoraou812 (I have a very firm grasp on reality! I can reach out and strangle it any time!)
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To: 21twelve

there is a difference in your case.... You knew what was going on while the rest of the class only thought you were going to die (not them). Admittedly it is a small difference.

I wish we knew why this guy thought it was a good idea to do this. Maybe there was a reason he had for the behavior.


73 posted on 04/23/2012 1:57:15 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: South40

Two words..... Brice Lee


74 posted on 04/23/2012 1:58:03 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: TigersEye

Wow. Your mental midgetry astounds me. There are seven (7) ‘personal pronouns’. They are…get ready for it…”I, we, you, she, he, it, they.” Did you notice ‘your’ or ‘you’re’ among those? …Didn’t think so.

Now listen carefully because I’m only going to say this once more and it is clear you have not been paying attention.

Here are the definitions of ‘your’ and ‘you’re’ along with some salient examples for your little mind to wrap itself around.

You’re: contraction of ‘you are’
(Examples)
You’re an ignoramus.
You’re a loser.
You’re way over your head here.

Your: Adj., refers to something that belongs to or relates to the person who is being spoken to.
(examples)
Your rant is that of a typical teenager.
Your right hand has male bodily fluids on it.
The guy on your right is way smarter than you.

I’ll even combine the two in one sentence so you don’t get confused.

Your head is so far up your ass that you’re oblivious to the fact that you’re completely wrong and continue to make a complete fool of yourself.

(In case you were wondering ‘yourself’ is a reflexive pronoun, not a personal one) :D


75 posted on 04/23/2012 2:17:03 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: muir_redwoods
Ask these guys about blanks


76 posted on 04/23/2012 2:19:19 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Frenetic74
Forget the pronouns and all that crap, plain English, you are FOS and you are the only one here that doesn't recognize that fact.
77 posted on 04/23/2012 2:22:57 PM PDT by eastforker (Don't be ornery for Romney, instead Root for Newt!)
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To: Frenetic74

Good to know you weren’t talking about me when you said “your rant.” Pinhead.


78 posted on 04/23/2012 2:35:51 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: UCANSEE2

painful to watch


79 posted on 04/23/2012 2:46:59 PM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: TigersEye

You’re embarrassing yourself with your ignorance. See I used the words correctly three times in that sentence. :D


80 posted on 04/23/2012 3:28:15 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: eastforker

Sorry Charlie...how’s this for plain English?

We know very little about the case in question. The media told us almost nothing except what was useful to prop up an anti-gun meme (look it up if you don’t know what the word means). I have a hundred questions that weren’t asked let alone answered about it and I refuse to pass judgment on some guy just because some pinhead in the media (or in this forum for that matter) said so. We live in America where we have a justice system...not a ‘street justice’ system.

If you would rather play judge, jury and executioner while presiding over almost no factual evidence of any kind or motive...be my guest...plenty of third world countries and banana republics would be happy to receive you.

In the meantime, try and bring something intelligent to the argument instead of a list of stupid pejoratives and half-baked rants. I’m not impressed by what I’ve seen of you thus far. Try harder.


81 posted on 04/23/2012 3:49:51 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: samtheman

The video link you posted in your tag is great. I saw it the other day and have been showing and passing it to as many people as I can. Powerful stuff. It’s heartening that people are fighting back against despotism and tyranny.


82 posted on 04/23/2012 4:01:16 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: Frenetic74

I’ve been doing the same. It’s the most important video of 2012.


83 posted on 04/23/2012 4:36:43 PM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: Frenetic74
Don't strain your last surviving brain cell trying to figure this out. ROTFL
Possessive Personal Pronouns

A possessive pronoun indicates that the pronoun is acting as a marker of possession and defines who owns a particular object or person. The possessive personal pronouns are "mine," "yours," "hers," "his," "its," "ours," and "theirs." Note that possessive personal pronouns are very similar to possessive adjectives like "my," "her," and "their."

In each of the following sentences, the highlighted word is a possessive personal pronoun:

The smallest gift is mine.

Here the possessive pronoun "mine" functions as a subject complement.

This is yours.

Here too the possessive pronoun "yours" functions as a subject complement.

His is on the kitchen counter.

In this example, the possessive pronoun "his" acts as the subject of the sentence.

Theirs will be delivered tomorrow.

In this sentence, the possessive pronoun "theirs" is the subject of the sentence.

Ours is the green one on the corner.

Here too the possessive pronoun "ours" function as the subject of the sentence.


84 posted on 04/23/2012 5:45:11 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: pandoraou812
I keep telling you that you need to get out of NJ, pandy. I swear there are more fruits and nuts living there than in CA.

"If I wanted American to fail I would hire numbskulls for teachers."

85 posted on 04/23/2012 5:48:24 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

“Don’t strain your last surviving brain cell trying to figure this out “

No sweat. I’m actually sad it’s this easy. There is nothing really to “figure out” here since you are incorrect again on two fronts.

First, you again trapped yourself with the logical fallacy Ignoratio elenchi by using correct information, but which didn’t address the issue in question. This automatically disqualifies you from winning this argument so the rest of this post from here on out is just to point out how miserably you failed here.

The word I used was “your” not “yours”. It is a different word and is used differently in sentence structure to convey a different syntax. Here’s how…

“Your rant” means the rant is attributed to you. Since the word ‘rant’ is a verb, not a noun, it is impossible for ‘your’ in the context I used it to be a proNOUN (get it?) and is instead is a possessive determiner or adjective…something completely different than if I said ‘this rant is yours’ (which, by the way, wouldn’t make any sense whatsoever since you can’t have possession over a verb…it would be like saying this ‘leap’ is yours…but I digress and you are likely too stupid to understand or see the difference anyway)

Second (as if your first blunder wasn’t bad enough), the facts clearly show that YOU erroneously accused me of using the wrong grammatical form of the word ‘your’ and said it should have been ‘you’re’. You defended your accusations and lobbed pejoratives at me despite repeated factual rebuttals. Now you come back with some pointless crap concerning the context of the word “yours” I never used as if it somehow changed the facts and supported your argument. The addition of the “brain cell” comment in this case just makes you look even more idiotic.

If you wish to keep digging your own grave, keep it coming. I’m finding this amusing.


86 posted on 04/23/2012 7:36:56 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: TigersEye

“If I wanted American to fail I would hire numbskulls for teachers.”

Sorry Tiger...no amount of ad hominem and insults will change the fact that you have repeatedly made yourself to look like an idiot by insisting on defending the indefensible, using false logic and letting your pride cloud your judgment. You’ve been outclassed in every way here, sadly without me having to try very hard. I was actually looking forward to a real argument; instead I had to drag you back to 8th grade grammar lessons.

Boring.


87 posted on 04/23/2012 7:56:31 PM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: Frenetic74
This will be far beyond your reading comprehension but someone might benefit.

Understanding The Complex Colorado Crime of Reckless Endangerment C.R.S. 18-3-208

by H. Michael Steinberg – A Denver, Colorado Reckless Endangerment Attorney, C.R.S. 18-3-208

A person who recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious bodily injury to another person commits Colorado Reckless Endangerment, which is a class-3 misdemeanor in our state. C.R.S. 18-3-208.

The definition of “recklessly” is: “A person acts recklessly when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a result will occur or that a circumstance exists.”

Every Crime is broken down into it’s elements – to prove this crime beyond a reasonable doubt – the District Attorney mut prove that:

1. The Defendant

2. Recklessly

3, Engaged in Conduct which created a Substantial Risk of Serious Bodily Injury

4. To Another Person

The focus on most defenses to this crime is defeating the mental state behind the act itself – that mental state is “Recklessly.” Sometimes that requires the testimony of an expert on the standard of care to be applied in a given example of someone’s conduct.

For example when it comes to the crime of manslaughter in Colorado:

Recklessness involves a higher level of culpability than criminal negligence, but requires less culpability than intentional actions. The State establishes a cause of action for reckless manslaughter when it proves the defendant caused the victim’s death and the defendant

Consciously disregarded a substantial and Unjustified risk that he would Cause the death of another.

The court may infer that the defendant was subjectively aware of the risk, However, the Court must weigh the nature and purpose of defendant’s conduct against the risk created by that conduct in evaluating whether a risk is unjustifiable. A substantial and unjustified risk is a gross deviation from the standard of care.

Risk of death to another in a general sense is sufficient; defendant need not risk death of a specific individual.


88 posted on 04/23/2012 8:49:27 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Frenetic74
Sorry Tiger...no amount of ad hominem and insults...

We already covered that. You went first so stop whining like a little girl.

89 posted on 04/23/2012 8:50:31 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Frenetic74

One thing we all know is true. If another teacher walked into your room and started firing a starting pistol at your students you would stand there with your pud in your hand drooling.


90 posted on 04/23/2012 8:53:08 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye; wintertime; metmom

The education system in NJ is not what it was when I was in school. After reading the posts I am so happy I had Metmom, Wintertime, you & others to help me make the correct choice in home schooling Sassy!


91 posted on 04/23/2012 9:07:13 PM PDT by pandoraou812 (I have a very firm grasp on reality! I can reach out and strangle it any time!)
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To: South40

In before the public school defenders.


92 posted on 04/24/2012 1:12:20 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: South40; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; AccountantMom; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...

ANOTHER REASON TO HOMESCHOOL

This ping list is for the “other” articles of interest to homeschoolers about education and public school. This can occasionally be a fairly high volume list. Articles pinged to the Another Reason to Homeschool List will be given the keyword of ARTH. (If I remember. If I forget, please feel free to add it yourself)

The main Homeschool Ping List handles the homeschool-specific articles. I hold both the Homeschool Ping List and the Another Reason to Homeschool Ping list. Please freepmail me to let me know if you would like to be added to or removed from either list, or both.

93 posted on 04/24/2012 1:14:04 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: TigersEye

Irrelevant.


94 posted on 04/24/2012 2:15:18 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: TigersEye

Irrelevant and a lie. Try harder.


95 posted on 04/24/2012 2:17:14 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: TigersEye

Ad Hominem and stupid. That all you got fool? :D


96 posted on 04/24/2012 2:19:39 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: TigersEye

“One thing we all know is true. If another teacher walked into your room and started firing a starting pistol at your students you would stand there with your pud in your hand drooling.”

HAHAHAHAHHA… I love when fools like you get backed into a corner they can’t get out of due to their own stupidity...they start flailing their arms and throwing hissy fits like a little coward and a baby. Poor baby; Baby can’t win an argument he was destined to loose from the beginning because he doesn’t understand the English language and made stupid remarks without thinking them through… :D

I’ve torn down every stupid comment you’ve made with basic logic and grammar school English and you can do nothing but muster more stupidity. Sad.

You homeschooling is like Helen Keller teaching music.


97 posted on 04/24/2012 2:42:13 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: TigersEye

“We already covered that. You went first so stop whining like a little girl.”

Poor baby had his feelings hurt…

We’ve also already covered that I’m not complaining or whining, but rather am embarrassed for you.

You see when mental midgets resort to ad hominem’s and insults when they can’t win an argument, make stupid irrelevant comments and false accusations without the ability to back their claims up with facts or logic…it’s embarrassing to watch. I’ve schooled you a dozen times already to which you have no recourse but to attack me personally because you can’t defend your position. You’ve tried but they have all been duds because you were wrong from the start. All I’ve done is point out your failures.

Sorry you don’t like it. Next time think before you run your mouth off.

If you can’t even understand English grammar your kids are being disserviced by having you teach them; in fact it more akin to child abuse; the blind leading the blind. I feel sorry for them too.


98 posted on 04/24/2012 2:53:07 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: TigersEye

“Understanding The Complex Colorado Crime of Reckless Endangerment C.R.S. 18-3-208”

Another irrelevant and useless statement. You still don’t understand the concept behind the logical fallacies you keep spouting in an attempt to make yourself look smart (when you clearly are not)...again what you’ve done here is called…wait for it…”Ignoratio elenchi”. For the last time…look it up and stop being an idiot.

I guess it was too much to ask you to actually read the article in question. The article wasn’t talking about a misdemeanor (as you uselessly posted)…it was talking about the guy facing 12 FELONY charges of brandishing a firearm, each of which can carry up to five years in jail for each offense.

You really need to get your head examined. Sheesh.


99 posted on 04/24/2012 3:02:03 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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To: pandoraou812; TigersEye; wintertime; metmom

To all of you...

There used to be a time in this country where common sense and rule of law mattered and where the punishment fit the crime. There is no question that what this man did was wrong. However, can any of you honestly say that the man in this article who is facing 12 felony charges of brandishing a firearm which carries a potential jail term of up to 60 years in prison fits his crime? Think objectively about this and not emotionally. If this was your father, would you think it a fair punishment to have a clearly emotionally disturbed man in need of psychiatric help potentially go behind bars for the rest of his life over this?

Keep in mind that the weapon was a fake. Nobody was injured. Take a minute to think about how little was said in the article…nobody here knows anything about the situation or what transpired. The article couldn’t even say for certain how many blanks were even fired. I have a hundred questions in need of answers, before I would condemn this man, which weren’t answered. Have any of you asked yourselves even one? Do you believe in innocent until proven guilty or street justice and mob rule?

Think about this the next time you cry on each other’s shoulders about how your freedoms have been stripped away and how homeschooling is some perfect pill that will somehow transform society, influence thousands of young minds to learn to read between the lines and think for themselves instead of being led blindly by enemies to freedom in our media, government and education.

I left a higher paying job to march into enemy territory every day to do something all you people mock me for yet probably wouldn’t last a day in. I’m active in my school, my church, my community, my Tea Party, the NRA and the Heritage Foundation. My wife and I are both gun owners. In other words I’m actually on the front lines slogging it through this culture war. Are you? Or do you just post to a blog and call it a day?


100 posted on 04/24/2012 3:50:44 AM PDT by Frenetic74 (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. - Mark Twain)
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