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Where Do Conservatives Go Now? Part 2 (Donít Get Suckered into Supporting the Republican Party)
Conservative HQ ^ | 19 Apr 12 | Richard A. Viguerie

Posted on 04/20/2012 8:09:50 AM PDT by xzins

Fourth, Remember the Difference Between Republicans and Conservatives.

Conservatives look at the endorsements Mitt Romney has garnered from such establishment figures as former President George H.W. Bush and former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, and most importantly from business-as-usual Washington insiders, such as lobbyist Ed Gillespie, and they see advocates of positions they often opposed, not friends of the transformational agenda that won the Tea Party wave election of 2010.

Surveying Romney’s record and agenda, and most importantly the people he is likely to bring to Washington to implement his agenda, movement conservatives see little likelihood a Romney administration will differ from a Bush administration, or a McCain administration, or a Dole or Ford administration.

This is why conservatives remain so deeply skeptical of Mitt Romney’s candidacy for President. They look at his record as Governor of Massachusetts and the policies he espouses and see no commitment to the kind of transformational change the conservative movement has been working for the past 50 years to achieve.

Republican Party insiders still can’t come to grips with the reality that the rebellion of the small government constitutional conservatives of the Tea Party is as much a rejection of their stewardship of the government – the earmarks and massive spending and debt of the Bush years – as it is a rejection of Obamacare and Obamanomics.

Let’s be quite clear – there is a difference between Republicans and conservatives. The goal of the Republican political party is to elect its candidates to control the levers of government power. Conservatives should not get so swept-up in the Republican Party’s campaign for power, that they loose sight of the fact that the goal of the conservative movement is to hold the government to constitutional principles, no matter what political party is in power, and in the process rejuvenate our society and culture.

Fifth, Don’t Get Suckered into Supporting the Republican Party.

If the difference between conservatives and Republicans is based in the conservative movement’s commitment to holding the government to constitutional principles, no matter which Party is in power, then one of the most important things conservatives can do is to support organizations that are committed to that same goal.

This also means declining to support organizations, including the national, state and local Republican Parties if they are not committed to holding the government to constitutional principles.

The folly of conservatives supporting the Republican National Committee, and many state Republican Party committees was made readily apparent during the presidential primary. In state after state the establishment GOP did its best to thwart the will of the grassroots conservative voters by using its power to tip the scales toward Mitt Romney to the disadvantage of the conservative candidates in the race.

In the same vein the Republican National Congressional Committee and the National Republican Senatorial Committee have become virtual incumbent protection rackets – appearing to sell influence and access in return for donations to keep incumbent members of Congress in power.

Thanks in part to the ability of the new and alternative media, especially the internet, to empower grassroots activists it is now possible to bypass the establishment Republican Party. There are now dozens of sound organizations committed to constitutional conservative principles that are doing everything from training volunteers in grassroots campaign techniques to recruiting and training conservative candidates to run for Congress and their state legislatures.

Just because an organization has conservative in its name doesn’t mean the organization is actually conservative – especially if it is headquartered in Washington DC. Too many Washington-based organizations, even ones that began with the intention of fostering conservative government, have become part of the inside-the-Beltway Republican establishment.

Very often the best organizations to support are not the state parties and national committees, but the local groups; County Republican Committees and Tea Party organizations who share our values and are doing the hard work to elect conservative candidates to office up and down the ballot. By supporting these local organizations, which are always struggling to raise money, it is possible to know their leadership, know whether or not they share our values and determine whether they are accountable and effective.

During the Bush – Hastert – Frist years too many Washington-based policy organizations sold their souls for a few tickets to the White House Christmas party or a seat at the State of the Union Address. They failed in the real test of whether they were effective advocates of conservative policy – holding the government to constitutional principles, no matter which Party is in power.

Don’t get suckered into supporting the Republican Party’s incumbent protection racket. Donate only to small government constitutional conservative organizations and committees dedicated to holding the government to constitutional principles, no matter which Party is in power, and electing small government constitutional conservatives to office. Avoid establishment Republican-oriented organizations and Party committees that don’t hew to conservative principles, and work against conservative candidates and blindly support Republican incumbents even when they oppose conservative policies.

Sixth, It’s the Primaries, Stupid – Support Small Government, Constitutional Conservative Candidates

If 2012 is another big wave election, like 2010, but it sweeps into office the usual big-government, establishment Republicans, then we will have missed the opportunity of a lifetime.

Supporting small government, constitutional conservatives, no matter how far down the ballot they are is crucial to our long-term success, and running for any office, no matter how far down the ballot, is worthy of your efforts.

If constitutional conservatives are to govern America, we must not only elect a President and a Congress, but also city council members, school board members, state legislators, Secretaries of State, Lt. Governors, etc.

Of course, there are many good candidates already running who are with the Tea Party movement. However, the vast majority of positions on the ballot this year do not have small government constitutional conservatives running, and many will have incumbents who have not faced a contest in years.

We who want constitutional, small-government should be running candidates even when it appears they have little or no chance of victory. The mistake of assuming good candidates will emerge from the regular party process does not work most of the time because the establishment Republican Party has no real interest in the kind of transformational change sought by conservatives.

Do you really trust Party leaders like Mitch McConnell and John Boehner to build a Republican majority of small government constitutional conservatives? If we leave it to the national congressional and Party leadership to recruit the candidates we will end-up with a Congress just like them; incumbents such as Bob Bennett and establishment figures such as Charlie Crist, and Trey Grayson.

When making decisions about where to put their financial support, conservatives should remember that if the national Republican committees had their way, such now-stalwart conservative Senators as Rand Paul, Marco Rubio and Mike Lee would never have been elected.

The only time we are guaranteed to lose is when we don’t compete. In today’s volatile political environment, no establishment candidate is truly safe. The American people want the chance to take out the big-government, establishment politicians; put your money and your hard work directly behind those candidates who are committed to small government, constitutional principles.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: conservative; elections; establishment; gop; rejectromney; rncc; romney; romneytruthfile; smallgovernment; teaparty; viguerie
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To: Turbo Pig
I am not advocating Romney; I am advocating doing what is needed to ensure that obama is a one term president. Deal with the real and present danger now, deal with extrapolated threats when they arise.

Obama himself insured that he is a one term president. The Republican party has taken it upon themselves to make Obama is a two-termer. I have no intentions of helping the GOP defeat Obama. None whatsoever. They stabbed the tea party in the back so ef'em.

51 posted on 04/20/2012 10:13:43 AM PDT by upsdriver (Newt..... stop Romney, get to a brokered convention and start a DRAFT PALIN movement!)
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To: elpadre
if conservatives are the instruments causing Obama to have four more years, then that is the end of conservatism in the USA as a viable political entity.

If conservatives are willing to compromise their beliefs for the sake of a party, THAT is the death of conservatism.

You'd better wise up!
52 posted on 04/20/2012 10:18:18 AM PDT by libdestroyer
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To: ReformationFan
So should we support the Constitution Party?

The only thing the Constitution Party is good for is a protest vote. Depending on the polls here, I may go that way for president, but what is more important is to make sure there are good republicans nominated for the downticket offers. Tim Walberg is usually good for congress. Most of the US Senate candidates in my state are acceptable, although some are better than others.

As my tagline states, the Republican Party is bigger than the presidency. Because the presidential nominee is unacceptable, doesn't mean that we should toss the good guys under the bus. Those that do are idiots.

53 posted on 04/20/2012 10:21:54 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (The Republican Party is bigger than the presidency.)
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To: DNME
"The “elites” are the ones who shoved Romney down our throats and have no apparent love for Tea Party conservative thinking. Defeating the GOP-e strikes me as nearly as important as throwing out the Dems."


54 posted on 04/20/2012 10:22:44 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I am very, very good. But! When I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Safrguns
If Romney is the GOP nominee, I will no longer be a republican.

I was a Republican before Romney was first elected to anything. I'll be here long after he's gone. The party is bigger than Mitt.

55 posted on 04/20/2012 10:25:24 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (The Republican Party is bigger than the presidency.)
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To: xzins; onyx; katiedidit1; b9; true believer forever

“Time after time during the Republican primary election cycle grassroots conservatives and Tea Partiers saw establishment Republican Party officials put their thumb on the scale to tip the balance in Mitt Romney’s favor.
From the arbitrary abuse of the winner-take-all rules in Florida and Arizona, to the post-election delegate allocation changes in Michigan, to the burdensome ballot access process in Virginia the establishment Republican Party did everything possible to thwart grassroots conservative activists and keep the power to choose the Republican nominee in the hands of Party insiders.
To prevent this from happening again, and to build a Republican Party leadership that truly represents its conservative base, Tea Partiers and grassroots conservative activists must redouble their efforts to take over the Republican Party.”

http://www.conservativehq.com/article/7603-where-do-conservatives-go-now


56 posted on 04/20/2012 10:40:09 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I am very, very good. But! When I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: upsdriver
I have no intentions of helping the GOP defeat Obama

That's OK, at this point, I really don't care how you, or anyone else votes. That is your prerogative.

I will say this, if obama is re-elected and ANYONE complains, or posts something negative about him, his policies, his wife, his administration...anything, my first question will be "Who did you vote for?" If the answer is I didn't vote for the president, because I hate the GOP and/or Romney, my reply is going to be "Oh really, STFU then."

57 posted on 04/20/2012 10:47:08 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: xzins

>>Don’t Get Suckered into Supporting the Republican Party

Oh, heavens, no! Let’s run a 3rd party that will give a nasty, sneering Obama an easy second term! You are very stupid, Richard.


58 posted on 04/20/2012 10:48:02 AM PDT by pabianice (ame with)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin
I don't find anything wrong with that argument as written, but it certainly implies a causal link that hasn't been proven. Namely, that the reason the country has slipped to the left is because conservatives or Republicans are willing to vote for the lesser of two evils. But I don't think that has anything to do with it.

If you'll give it a bit more thought, I believe you'll realize that it does.

We have five elections over twenty years, where an avowed Leftist campaigns against a person who claims to be a Conservative, but actually doesn't campaign by voicing staunch support for Conservative ideals.  In this environment, nobody advances the premise that Conservative tenets are more sound than Leftist tenets.  Both campaign from a Leftist point of view, but one is less of a Leftist than the other.

Does Conservatism grow stronger under this model?  No.  It's impossible for it to.  It grows weaker, and that's precisely what has taken place.

The problem isn't conservatives voting for the lesser of two evils. Oh yes it is.  If Conservatives won't take a stand against Leftists within their own ranks, then they'll fall for anything.  McCain..., Romney...

The problem is that the horde of liberals and mushy-minded moderates all get to vote too, and they don't want the same people we do.  We could have said the same thing in Reagan's day.  Instead of adopting that strategy, Reagan reached out to Democrats by making sound arguments.  He prevailed because he supported sound policy, and sold it to others.  Who is selling it these days?  Nobody.

The stark reality is that conservatives are not the majority in this country. So if we want conservatives to win Presidential elections, we have to be fortunate enough to either 1) be running against a really crummy, uncharismatic Democrat, or 2) have a truly great conservative candidate.  Not true.  I don't think that's an outlandish comment by any means, but it is misguided.  If we want Conservatives to win, our party has to endorse them, support them, and keep lofting them.  I'm not making the case they will always win.  I am making the case that when our time does come to gain the leadership, a Conservative will be the person installed into office.  Our party clearly fights to defeat this reality.  In his day, Reagan WAS NOT the RNC favorite.  George Bush was.  None the less, Democrats reached out to thim and supported him.  The same dynamic is alive and well today.  Most people don't realize it.

Are you aware of the percentage of the populace that considers themselves to be a Conservative vs a Liberal?  41 vs 21% LINK

Sadly the RNC is operating under the same misconception you are.

Unfortunately, neither of those was available to us in this campaign cycle. I don't see that as a justification to give up on opposing the greater of two evils because of the greater damage that can be done by that greater evil. And, it seems obvious to me that conservatives are certainly going to have more influence over a GOP President than a Democrat who will be pandering to his base heavily his entire second term.

Okay, then you buy into the idea that we must always vote for the (R), no matter what.  I say that because the Leftist is always without fail described as someone we can't allow to be elected, or the nation will crumble.  Strangely, the more this seemed to make sense, the more Leftist our candidates(R) happened to turn out to be.  Now we're at the point that folks who partner with Soros, Kennedy, Kerry et al are the folks we're being asked to support.  McCain formed a 501c(3) with Soros, Teressa Heinz Kerry, and the Tides Foundation.  Look at what Romney has been up to.  Who needs Democrats when you have the level of treachery on our own side?

I'm not saying this to be mean, but you're playing right into the hands of the RNC here.  You're proving them right.  We'll vote for anything with an (R) after it.  Why should they move back to the Right, if they can get people this Leftist elected?  Do you want people this Leftist?  I don't think you do.

Just because the President is a Republican doesn't mean conservatives can't loudly and strongly oppose his policies with which we disagree.  Look, if you want to kid yourself that Republican Senators and Congressmen stand up to Republican presidents, go ahead.  The Medicare Prescription plan?  The Kennedy/McCain Immigration Reform Act?  Nice try.  Lest you forget, the Immigration Reform Act was a done deal, if McCain hadn't wanted to run for the presidency.  The Democrats were in charge.  They had the votes.  Republicans would have joined them.  So no, failing the withdrawel of support by one of the drafters, this bill passes.  Is anyone at all operating under the delusion that McCain wouldn't have revived this as soon as he was elected?  It was the realization of this that more than anything else, cost McCain the election.  And remember, he was the lesser of two evils.  His bill would have seen over 100 million Mexican nationals become U. S. Citizen in under 20 years.


As much of a squishy moderate as Bush was on some issues, I think most of us would agree this country would be in even worse shape if Gore of Kerry had been elected in his stead. And it does us no good if the patient dies before we can find the right doctor.


If the Republican party couldn't get Bush elected without Conservative support, do you think the next candidate would have been less or more Conservative?  Yes, we got Bush elected, and then he proceded to join with the Republicans and the Democrats to shape the nation that was handed off to Barack Obama.  Tell me this destroys my arguments here.  Well, you can't.

Do I want Kerry, Gore, Obama, in office?  No.  At the same time, I don't want Bush, McCain, and Romney in office.  I'm sorry, but the RNC will never get the message if we don't send it loud and clear.  This nation will get no better, and will only get worse until it gets that message.  Now, when will we send that message if not now?


59 posted on 04/20/2012 10:50:02 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Okay, now lets see if the RNC, Rove, and Card can get him elected without their core base. Game on!)
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To: Turbo Pig

No problem. In turn, I’ll blame you for wasting your vote on Romney and losing the election that could have been won with a credible candidate.


60 posted on 04/20/2012 10:59:21 AM PDT by upsdriver (Newt..... stop Romney, get to a brokered convention and start a DRAFT PALIN movement!)
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To: Safrguns

Your dreaming on that one. The Republican’s have no “Balls” or anything else.
Nothing and I mean nothing is going to change.


61 posted on 04/20/2012 10:59:51 AM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
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To: DoughtyOne
In this environment, nobody advances the premise that Conservative tenets are more sound than Leftist tenets. Both campaign from a Leftist point of view, but one is less of a Leftist than the other.

I disagree right there. There are plenty of people espoousing conservative ideals, and they at least get presented as the alternative to what the Democrat does. And frankly, in this election cycle, Romney has rhetorically been a big booster of capitalism. It's his record on related issues that's the problem, but the conservative message is definitely getting out there evne if conservatives themselves doubt his sincerity.

The problem has been that conservative ideals are "tougher love" than the surface coddling that liberals offer, so it takes an exceptional messenger to make that case effectively.

If we want Conservatives to win, our party has to endorse them, support them, and keep lofting them. I'm not making the case they will always win. I am making the case that when our time does come to gain the leadership, a Conservative will be the person installed into office.

I don't see the virtue in drilling holes in the bottom of the boat so that the water runs out faster while waiting for that conservative to emerge. by then, we may be sunk.

Our party clearly fights to defeat this reality. In his day, Reagan WAS NOT the RNC favorite. George Bush was. None the less, Democrats reached out to thim and supported him. The same dynamic is alive and well today. Most people don't realize it.

The problem, again, is that we don't have a Reagan running. We had a pretty flawed slate of candidates. The reason we haven't nominated another Reagan is that another Reagan hasn't chosen to run.

Are you aware of the percentage of the populace that considers themselves to be a Conservative vs a Liberal? 41 vs 21%

41% is not a majority. It gets you 41% of the electorate. In any case, peoples' definition of conservative may be ideosyncratic, and may not match yours or mine. But more importantly, if we assume that number is correct, then why didn't that 41% nominate a great conservative? It's because there wasn't one running. That was the core reason we're stuck with Romney today. Crud, the primaries showed that GOP voters kept flocking to the next non-Romney, in the vain hope they'd turn out to be the next Reagan. And they all failed. I voted for Gingrich, but I'd admit that he isn't Reagan either.

The core problem we've had is a lack of good candidates. And honestly, the only "fault" we can attach to that is to those non-existent candidates themselves. The best I've seen recently is Rubio in terms of the ability to communicate the conservative message effectively, but he's still unripe. I just want to be sure we still have a country when he's ready to run in 2016.

62 posted on 04/20/2012 11:06:15 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: upsdriver
In turn, I’ll blame you for wasting your vote on Romney and losing the election that could have been won with a credible candidate.

And you would be completely off-base; because Romney isn't my man. Thinking that I am a GOP/Romney supporter shows how blinded by hatred one is; considering I flatly stated I wasn't voting for him, but against obama.

In fact he's the last person on the stage; besides Ron Paul, that I want running for president this year. Unfortunately, my guy didn't win and it looks like Romney will be the nominee; barring an act of God, I fear. You make do with the hand you are dealt.

63 posted on 04/20/2012 11:14:39 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: arrdon
why don’t you half-wits go out

Since when does standing on sound conservative principles warrant insult on the FR? If your conscience is clear voting for Romney, then do it. I don't agree with your actions or understand them but I respect your right to make up your own mind. Those of us who won't ever pull the lever for Romney would appreciate similar treatment.

I'd feel a little bit worse with Obama's re-election than I would with Romney's election but not enough to abandon my conservative principles. I said five years ago that Mitt Romney is the only major Republican presidential candidate of my lifetime for whom I couldn't vote. That's an unbroken string of Republican votes back to unenthusiastically pulling the lever for Ford. Not Romney, ever.

64 posted on 04/20/2012 11:23:32 AM PDT by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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To: Turbo Pig
I am not advocating Romney; I am advocating doing what is needed to ensure that obama is a one term president. Deal with the real and present danger now, deal with extrapolated threats when they arise.

I agree! Allowing the ENEMY inside your camp is much more dangerous than having him outside. Keep electing rinos and keep allowing these liberal appeasing prix to rummage around and destroy the best hope for America that exist!

When does supporting these "lessor of two evils" rino losers end???

65 posted on 04/20/2012 11:27:15 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Freedom is not free.)
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To: Le Chien Rouge
On election day , I will be writing in the Tina Fey look-a-like from Alaska.

She's A LOT better looking than Tina Fey. And classier. And more character.

66 posted on 04/20/2012 11:34:30 AM PDT by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: xzins

Sorry, I’ll vote for whomever the Pubs throw up against Obama.

Imagine what Obama will do if he thinks he has voter approval of his socialist agenda by being elected to a second term.

I dislike Romney but he is better than another Obama term. Sorry FR, had to say it.


67 posted on 04/20/2012 11:39:37 AM PDT by hattend (Firearms and ammunition...the only growing industries under the Obama regime.)
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To: upsdriver
Forget the Tea Party also. What happened to all those Tea Party types elected in 2010?
Last year during the the Debt and Deficit talks they pretty much all folded when they had a chance to define things and draw the proverbial line in the sand.
As far as I am concerned they are yesterday's news, they failed.
As I said nothing will change. There is no political will to do so and when we finally hit the Granite Wall because of all the debt and economic problems these same idiots will be blaming each other.
68 posted on 04/20/2012 11:46:42 AM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
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To: hattend
I dislike Romney but he is better than another Obama term. Sorry FR, had to say it.

I predict that by November this site will have again become more sane and practical.

This "Romney-is-Satan" crap just won't hold up for another six months, especially after every conservative who ever held public office has endorsed him and campaigned for him.

69 posted on 04/20/2012 11:52:12 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Captain Peter Blood
There are several GOP primary contests ongoing where RINOs are facing conservatives. The tea party movement continues.

One can always be impatient at the pace of progress but there is never any excuse for giving up.

70 posted on 04/20/2012 11:55:02 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: central_va
I haven't given a dime to the Neo-Whig party since Bush I.

You're right. Same with me. Every election is, "the most important election of our lifetime," and "now is not the time to abandon the party for the sake of ideological purity."

If we had "abandoned the party" in 1988, instead of nominating the first "New World Order" idiot, we wouldn't be in the shape we're in now. It has to start sometime, the sooner the better. I hope many will give up their hopes for the corrupt GOPe to reform itself. Their problems are genetic.

If we don't put our feet down now, in four years it will be the same old story with the same tired "my guy is less bad than their guy."

71 posted on 04/20/2012 12:00:56 PM PDT by jammer
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To: sirchtruth
I honestly do not know how to respond to your reply; because ..well I don't want to offend you. I will try, though.

1) They are already inside the camp; the damage is done. The damage that Romney can do; even at his worst, is less than what obama has and will continue to do, if re-elected.

2) The big key this year; and even GOP/Romney haters admit this, is to put more true Conservatives in the Senate. Do that and even if Romney goes all Massachusetts RINO (which he will at points), there will be a mechanism in place to stop him. Refer back to #1.

3) Letting the government go idle(which it never really does)is not an option. Things HAVE to be done in order to roll back the things that obama and his bureaucracy have put in place. Even if the Dems lose control of the Senate, do you honestly think obama won't veto everything that comes across his desk; after all he'll be a lot more "flexible" once he's re-elected. There's no way that you'll be able to get a veto proof vote on even half of what needs to be done to set this ship aright. Romney may. or may not veto things; we know that obama will. Refer back to #1.

4) This whole sick cycle ends, when Conservatives take control at the local level, build a farm team and elevate true Conservatives to the national stage. Are you doing your part locally (you as in the reader, not you sirchtruth specifically)? Refer back to #1.

Until then you make do with what's before you and try to make the best selection possible in order to minimize the damage that is being/going to be/could be done. Abdicating the playing field to the enemy (obama IS the enemy who is the biggest threat to "destroy the best hope for America that exist!" as you put it) is just plain idiotic and counter productive, in my opinion, at this point.

72 posted on 04/20/2012 12:04:01 PM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: Turbo Pig
I am not advocating Romney; I am advocating doing what is needed to ensure that obama is a one term president.

How can you have one, without the other?

I hold all those talking heads and primary candidates that continually told us they would 100% support whomever the nominee was, responsible for the disaster named Romney.

The next President whomever that is, will forever change our country and I doubt it will be for the better. One might begin to think that there really could be a grand conspiracy.

The TEA Party is dead, long live the TEA Party.

73 posted on 04/20/2012 12:05:50 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin
In this environment, nobody advances the premise that Conservative tenets are more sound than Leftist tenets. Both campaign from a Leftist point of view, but one is less of a Leftist than the other.

I disagree right there. There are plenty of people espoousing conservative ideals, and they at least get presented as the alternative to what the Democrat does. And frankly, in this election cycle, Romney has rhetorically been a big booster of capitalism. It's his record on related issues that's the problem, but the conservative message is definitely getting out there even if conservatives themselves doubt his sincerity.

Okay, so your example is a guy who expouses the evils of abortion, but supported it for decades.  He now speaks out against Obamacare, but he himself supported the individual mandate to get his own health care bill passed in Massachusetts.  He's a strong supporter of gun rights, but signed on to many gun control efforts in the past.  He is the loudest voice on our team, gets full support from the RNC, Republican talking heads, Republican office holders, and the Republican elites, but is his own walking nullification.

This is what strikes you as the Republican party getting Conservatism's message out there?  LOL  Okay.  Does it ever occur to you that a man like this actually destroys our message, cheapens it, causes folks to look at Conservatives as liars and worse?

The RNC should have made it clear from day one, that Romney was a bridge too far.  He was able to run roughshod over Newt and Santorum.  I have no doubt that others who didn't have as deep pockets as Romnye did, decidced to stay out rather then go broke.

Romney was Conservatism's 2012 poison pill.  His message was brought to you by the entirely too willing RNCe.


The problem has been that conservative ideals are "tougher love" than the surface coddling that liberals offer, so it takes an exceptional messenger to make that case effectively.

No, it merely takes a messenger that has espoused these policies for more than six months.  Having done that, it must also be a person with a loud enough voice that he won't be drowned out by someone spending six to ten times more money, to denegrate him with non-stop television spots, to the point that nobody else's voice could be heard above the din.  That's exactly what we had going on this year.

What we utlimately found out this year, is that the RNCe has no standards whatsoever.  Any person can register as a Republican and do whatever they like for decades against almost every tenet of Conservatism, then decide to run for the presidency with the RNCe's full blessing.


If we want Conservatives to win, our party has to endorse them, support them, and keep lofting them. I'm not making the case they will always win. I am making the case that when our time does come to gain the leadership, a Conservative will be the person installed into office.

I don't see the virtue in drilling holes in the bottom of the boat so that the water runs out faster while waiting for that conservative to emerge. by then, we may be sunk.

I don't disagree with your premise, but I'm not confident you are seeing this clearly.

What we actually have is a boat with a good sized hole in it, we need someone to block that hole, and you don't see a problem with a guy(R) holding a smaller drill bit headed into the boat.  What do you expect him to do with that drill?  Stop leaks?  NO, he wants to make more.  They'll probably be smaller, but they'll still let more water in.  When do we STOP putting in guys with a drill in their hand?  McCain, Romney,... more holes...  Look at the holes our last guy drilled in the bottom of the boat.  Hell, he came very close to sinking the thing with the help of others.  Enough already!

Our party clearly fights to defeat this reality. In his day, Reagan WAS NOT the RNC favorite. George Bush was. None the less, Democrats reached out to thim and supported him. The same dynamic is alive and well today. Most people don't realize it.

The problem, again, is that we don't have a Reagan running. We had a pretty flawed slate of candidates. The reason we haven't nominated another Reagan is that another Reagan hasn't chosen to run.

We've got a guy running with hundreds of millions, and we can't understand why a guy with a few million won't decide to run.   As long as the RNCe allows wealthy or well-known Leftists to continue to choke the field, we'll continue to get the Leftists.  What part of this are you missing?

Are you aware of the percentage of the populace that considers themselves to be a Conservative vs a Liberal? 41 vs 21%

41% is not a majority. It gets you 41% of the electorate. In any case, peoples' definition of conservative may be ideosyncratic, and may not match yours or mine. But more importantly, if we assume that number is correct, then why didn't that 41% nominate a great conservative? It's because there wasn't one running. That was the core reason we're stuck with Romney today. Crud, the primaries showed that GOP voters kept flocking to the next non-Romney, in the vain hope they'd turn out to be the next Reagan. And they all failed. I voted for Gingrich, but I'd admit that he isn't Reagan either.  No, he isn't.  I agree with that.  I'm not a big supporter of Newt.  I could vote for him, but it would be grudgingly.

Earlier you were stating that the majority of U. S. Citizens were not Conservative.  I point out that only 21% of the public claim to be Liberals, and you respond by telling me 41% is not a majority.  Pardon me for pointing it out, but 21% isn't either.  The fact remains, people self-declare to be Conservative by almost twice the number who self-declare to be Liberal.  Why are we not appealing to those self-declared Conservatives and enough of a small portion of the self-declared moderates to win?  Instead the RNCe backs the most Leftist candidate every four years.  Why are we continuing to fight for the 21% that declare to be Leftists?  It makes no sense whatsoever, and yet here we go again.  I'll ask you directly.  Why do you find yourself compelled to support this?

The core problem we've had is a lack of good candidates. And honestly, the only "fault" we can attach to that is to those non-existent candidates themselves. The best I've seen recently is Rubio in terms of the ability to communicate the conservative message effectively, but he's still unripe. I just want to be sure we still have a country when he's ready to run in 2016.


Does he have $200 million dollars?  If he doesn't, and another Leftist with $200 million decides to run, don't count on a good candidate coming forward.

BTW, my problems isn't the money or the fame, it's the way a person has lived their lives and whether they can be trusted to mean what they say today?

I also have a big problem with the RNCe's policy of being willing to back any Leftist slimeball(R) whatsoever for the presidency.

Thanks for the discussion.  I know some of this is rather pointed, but I'm not upset with you.  I'm just frustrated by what we are continually faced with every four years.  I want it to stop.


74 posted on 04/20/2012 12:11:06 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Okay, now lets see if the RNC, Rove, and Card can get him elected without their core base. Game on!)
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To: Vor Lady
By you throwing it out, you saved yourself cash and aggravation.

Tape it to a brick and send it back with the postage paid envelope they send to you.

75 posted on 04/20/2012 12:13:16 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: upsdriver
They stabbed the tea party in the back so ef'em.

What you really mean is ef all of us, ef the country, ef the future. Because--let's be plain about this--that is what your attitude and inaction will do. You do NOT stop to argue about the furniture in the house while the house is flooding. First you turn off the damn water.


76 posted on 04/20/2012 12:18:33 PM PDT by Cinnamontea
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To: DoughtyOne
Deep thought DoughtyOne, and right on the money.

I really don't hold out much hope for our Republic no matter which of these Marxists are elected.

No politician can cure what ails our country, and we should not look to one of them for the answer.

77 posted on 04/20/2012 12:23:37 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: Rum Tum Tugger
The resulting gridlock would better keep the bastards in both parties in check.

You have a few examples of how the current Republican controlled House has checked the current White House agenda?

78 posted on 04/20/2012 12:31:04 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin
The stark reality is that conservatives are not the majority in this country.


79 posted on 04/20/2012 12:33:42 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: Turbo Pig

-—”I am not advocating Romney; I am advocating doing what is needed to ensure that obama is a one term president. Deal with the real and present danger now, deal with extrapolated threats when they arise.”

You’ve got it figured out. This country has gone so far left that it’s just not going to happen that we can jump as far right as we want (e.g. Constitution Party). It’ll take two terms. Suppose a Romney term - and then if the country swings more conservative than now (I expect it will) - and then more conservative challenger.

That would be when Obama is the laughing stock of the mainstream.


80 posted on 04/20/2012 12:36:12 PM PDT by AlanGreenSpam (Obama: The First 'American IDOL' President - sponsored by Chicago NeoCom Thugs)
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To: pabianice
Oh, heavens, no! Let’s run a 3rd party

Ok you can count on m, but it would really be a second party, since we only have one currently.

81 posted on 04/20/2012 12:39:24 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: xzins

I support Conservatives.

I don’t support Socialists.

For example, I don’t support Mitt 0bamney, a slightly less Socialist guy than our current President.

I will find Conservatives to support, and usually those people will be Republicans.

This isn’t too hard.

William F. Buckley’s “The most conservative person who can win” standard must break down in the face of Socialist V. Socialist. Voting for a leftist will never have our principles win.


82 posted on 04/20/2012 12:39:45 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (FOCUS ON FACTS: 0bamaCare Hated. Worst Recovery. Failed Stimulus. Worst Deficits.)
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To: libdestroyer

back atcha


83 posted on 04/20/2012 12:41:39 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: xzins

I never read any article that starts with “Fourth.”


84 posted on 04/20/2012 12:48:10 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: itsahoot

Survive or fail, our support comes from above.

You know, there’s a movement forming in this nation, and it saddens me to realize the Republican party and especially Conservatives haven’t tapped into it.

Colton Dixon was voted off American Idol this week. In his parting solo, he once again sang a song in praise to the Christian God. His Twitter account is on fire today with supporters praising him for his testimony.

There is a river undercurrent flowing past us at this time. If we’re too stupid to tap into it, we don’t deserve to prevail.


85 posted on 04/20/2012 12:48:24 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Okay, now lets see if the RNC, Rove, and Card can get him elected without their core base. Game on!)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

Bruce you have very elequently explained why we must eat the turd sandwich the GOPe has served up. Pass the ketchup please, because I don’t think I can get that one down this time. Two landslide presidential elections and yet we need to take the advice of the group that chose GHWB over RR, got it.


86 posted on 04/20/2012 12:49:54 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: itsahoot

BTW, thank you for your comments. I appreciate it.


87 posted on 04/20/2012 12:50:57 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Okay, now lets see if the RNC, Rove, and Card can get him elected without their core base. Game on!)
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To: AlanGreenSpam
Suppose a Romney term - and then if the country swings more conservative than now (I expect it will) - and then more conservative challenger.

Do you really think the GOP-e will allow a challenger to an incumbent Romney in 2016?

I don't see it that way.

If Romney get's in, he will trample on conservative values, and the establishment beltway Republican's will be destroying anyone who dares to challenge the incumbent. In 2016,many of the fair weather conservatives will be saying we have to vote for a second term because a President who appointed a Sandra Day O'Connor type is better than one who appointed a Kagan type even if both vote equally against the Constitution.

88 posted on 04/20/2012 12:54:39 PM PDT by CharacterCounts (A vote for the lesser of two evils only insures the triumph of evil.)
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To: Turbo Pig
is just plain idiotic and counter productive, in my opinion, at this point.

Bare in mind that some of us live in hopelessly blue states so we have an opportunity to voice our disgust with the GOPe, without changing the result.

89 posted on 04/20/2012 12:57:22 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: xzins; All
Conservatives look at the endorsements Mitt Romney has garnered from such establishment figures as former President George H.W. Bush and former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, and most importantly from business-as-usual Washington insiders, such as lobbyist Ed Gillespie, and they see advocates of positions they often opposed, not friends of the transformational agenda that won the Tea Party wave election of 2010.

Many wonder just what happened to the Tea Party 'wave' -where is it? I suggest it still lives REGARDLESS the RINO establishments efforts to muzzle it.

REMEMBER THIS -the first assault upon the Tea Party by those seeking to muzzle it and its elected was all about 'moral issues' versus 'pocketbook issues' -simply put it was a divide and conquer strategy that focused upon potential differences rather than principled consensus ALL THIS premised upon the fallacy that power grabbing progressives including RINOS adhere to, winning control of the big government throne; RATHER THAN simply seeking limited government.

Next time a Republican tells you that your moral issues do not matter realize you are listening to a RINO or one of the progressive RINO's useful idiots!

90 posted on 04/20/2012 12:57:29 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Nervous Tick
Can a politician that has raised money for his campaign give that money to a Party or another individual whom is campaigning?
91 posted on 04/20/2012 12:59:51 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: DoughtyOne
I'm just frustrated by what we are continually faced with every four years. I want it to stop.

This thread represents the very best in your thinking, you eloquently put my thoughts to pen in a way that I wish I could.

92 posted on 04/20/2012 1:04:59 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: ngat; Thorliveshere

I think you wanted your post to be to Thorliveshere


93 posted on 04/20/2012 1:07:31 PM PDT by goodnesswins (2012..."We mutually pledge our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor")
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To: Turbo Pig
I am not advocating Romney; I am advocating doing what is needed to ensure that obama is a one term president.

Translation: Lock your most deeply held convictions and principles in a box, and vote for the big government Socialist, Romney.

94 posted on 04/20/2012 1:09:24 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Conservatives have the most leverage right now to influence a Romney presidency. Take a look at the linchpin policy areas, find agreement and make him commit to certain appointments, etc.

Obama lurched hard left, but Bush was steering in that general direction already. Romney isn’t going to lurch hard right, but he’ll have to steer to the right of Obama.

It is naive to think that the establishment is going to roll over and die. We have to win and hold Congress and to do that we need to win the war of ideas. We’re doing that with abortion and gun control as too great models. It’s easier and easier to push the conservative agenda in those two areas. We need to get another Justice Thomas to replace Ginsburg and conservatives should be locating several candidates right now. Get the GOP leadership to acquiesce to that in exchange for our support.


95 posted on 04/20/2012 1:10:14 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: xzins
Conservatives look at the endorsements Mitt Romney has garnered from such establishment figures as former President George H.W. Bush and former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, and most importantly from business-as-usual Washington insiders, such as lobbyist Ed Gillespie, and they see advocates of positions they often opposed, not friends of the transformational agenda that won the Tea Party wave election of 2010.

Levin had a great rant on his radio show last night about all of the anti-conservative positions that, I believe it was the Chamber of Commerce had endorsed. E.g. lax immigration policies, various government subsidies, etc. It was a good explanation of how being "pro-busines" is often at complete cross purposes to being conservative and free market-oriented. Of course he calls these people corporatists. And I think we all can see Mitt Romney would be the ULTIMATE Corporatist-in-Chief.

96 posted on 04/20/2012 1:10:47 PM PDT by JediJones (From the makers of Romney, Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger 2016. Because the GOP can never go too far left.)
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To: Thorliveshere

EVERYONE is “in a precinct”....do you recruit like minded PCP’s? Do you participate in finding good candidates? Do you fund things that help the individuals you support? Do you help find and then vote for the conservatives in your precinct/county, whatever?


97 posted on 04/20/2012 1:11:41 PM PDT by goodnesswins (2012..."We mutually pledge our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor")
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To: Arthur McGowan
...elect as many conservatives to the Congress, and hold Romney’s feet to the fire.

Still believe in the Tooth Fairy, do you?

A Republican dominated Congress will roll with Romney's big government, liberal agenda, where they'd fight tooth and nail against a president wearing the enemy's jersey.

I don't know why this is so hard for so many people to understand.

98 posted on 04/20/2012 1:13:00 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: ngat

AND, yes, YOUR last paragraph is absolutely correct!


99 posted on 04/20/2012 1:14:38 PM PDT by goodnesswins (2012..."We mutually pledge our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor")
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To: Arthur McGowan

If it’s close, you think Romney’s actually going to win?

Conservatives are going to stay home this year on POTUS. I think its going to effect the downticket races too.

In WA state, McKenna HAD a fighting chance. Now, as absolutely repulsive as Jay Inslee is EVEN TO DEMOCRATS, he’s going to win.

I’m writing in Petraeus. In a perfect world, he’d be my candidate.


100 posted on 04/20/2012 1:14:45 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
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