Skip to comments.1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed
Posted on 04/22/2012 12:31:28 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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Today even accounting is contracting.
And you don't need to be ON IT by the time you are 30.
Over my career I watched middle-managment DISAPPEAR. There were so many baby-boomers around with 'raw management talent" you could hire half a dozen of them as "project managers" and avoid hiring on the VP who'd cost you much more and was not as easy to outsource later on.
What you see today in terms of management structure is an echo of what there used to be! Technology has taken down those jobs first ~ much to the surprise of folks who thought they could move up into them.
You want to be a boss get your own company ~ and BTW, don't hire too many managers ~
Mathematics is part of Liberal Arts. So ~ what was it you said?
>What programming languages are most in demand? As I stated, I know some SAS but otherwise havent had the time nor inclination to learn computer programming.
While not in-demand*, I would suggest learning Ada first.
This in order to impress upon you good programming skills / habits / ideas. An Ada compiler is very ‘picky’ about rejecting programs with detectable errors, and so when you get it to compile correctly you can be very confident that any bugs are logical: the exact sort that you need to be concentrated on the problem at-hand, rather than language-traps like pointers in C/C++.
After that, I’d go with a .NET language (C#, likely) for the “marketability” attribute.
* To say it’s not in-demand is a lie; it is in demand in the Aerospace, real-time system, and the high-integrity systems. The hard thing is finding the “entry level” jobs (most I’ve seen) they are looking for 5+/10+ years of experience [and maybe a security-clearance].
Intriguingly the folks who deride "art" are probably totally unaware of how that field is flipping over to computer based pixelation faster than you can shake a stick. There you really do need to learn to use 3D animation just to talk to the big boys.
No guarantees on employment but that stuff starts at the top for talent.
In Leonardo DaVinci's day the best engineers were first and foremost "artists" because that's where the big bucks were ~ same thing today.
>Just curious — is Eclipse free? — and is it based on Windows or UNIX?
(You can get builds for Windows and for Linux; it is also free.)
>>Ive been asked questions like what is the general structure of an if-statement.
>I have a degree in EE and was asked what is Ohm’s Law? I got up and left, I was totally rude but I was pissed off. I just stormed out of the place without saying a word. For all I know the dufus thought I was a fraud and knew nothing about EE. But clearly my resume said BSEE on it so it is all retarded in the end....
>For Freepers who can’t understand this it would be like interviewing a Physician an asking him/her “So do you know what blood is?”
You know EXACTLY what I’m talking about then.
There's always plenty of "anything" going around! Lots of competition for it too.
That's a test to see if you have any idea what you are getting into. If you don't you'll storm off in a huff having instantaneously deselected yourself for that particular environment.
>”Executive Assistant to the Associate Deputy Director”
So, basically “secretary,” no?
I totally relate to your frustration and I remember feeling the same way right out of school. It was very hard even getting an interview at the entry level. BUT - You just have to keep on making calls and talking to people. Stay on friendly terms with all the recruiters and managers you can and when things break open hopefully they will call you before posting ads for job openings. The market has been tight for a while now, longer than normal and I expect it to open up before too much longer. You just need to stay on top of your game, and have a certain amount of flexibility in jumping over whatever stepping stones you need to jump over while continuously re-evaluating what steps you need to take to reach your goal. Smile & keep a positive can do attitude, that impresses managers. Your situation is not unique and many of your peers are in the same boat.
Also - I don't think your goal in unrealistic at all, and I suspect you will achieve it, or something close to it as long as you keep fighting the good fight. But what might surprise you is 5 years down the road you might get sick of all the politics and BS you will have to put up with at a major financial. But regardless, it will still enhance your career having seen what they are like from the inside. BTW: You really are more valuable with the degree, even if it doesn't feel that way right this minute.
Not in todays Universities it isn’t. Liberal Arts majors don’t have to take ANY math. I know because before I was Econ I spent 2 years as Poli-sci with plans on Law School. Even in a math school, no math was required for the arts.
Remember, the federal government hasn't done any serious expanding since 1960 ~ so there was no growth commensurate with an ever greater population ~ and simultaneously electronics displaced most traditional government work. That made having a long title a highly desirable ambition for a certain type of person.
The fellow you want to stand up and salute in any federal agency is the one who can sign "final agency decision". All those other people are just supernumeraries.
There's a structure to all academic disciplines dating back to the Middle Ages. Stick with it.
I know you want to deride "the Arts" as consisting of little more than Art History and Wymyn's studies, but they are actually in a new creation called - Education.
Even Art ~ the real thing ~ is in Liberal Arts, but some aspects of Art show up in Architecture, and Design is one of those aborning studies that is managed out of several different disciplines.
The primary characteristic of a degree from the College of Arts and Sciences is that you met a foreign language requirement ~ either through study, or by testing. If you didn't take a foreign language, or pass a test, you don't have a degree in the Liberal Arts ~ you have something from the School of Business, or the School of Education, or maybe Engineering. My degree is in Latin ~ 'cause I can read it even if others can't!
I got out and started my own business (retail). That didn’t work out so I got a gig as a prison warden. Now I’m working in radiation effects testing.
With a Phil degree, you can pretty much BS your way into anyting.
Older graduates can’t find work either - my wife went back to school ad got her early childhood ed degree in December but cannot find a job.
The formal and I’d say outdated definition is what you state. However, my University specifically lists those courses under “Liberal Arts”.
I agree with your definition however that isn’t how Universities are run anymore. Stupid, really.
I’m a former career counselor and recruiter. FReepmail me her resume and I’ll see what I can do.
I’m sorry Black_Shark
I wish you the best!
If I get offered $35K for a deadend job, I say no but thank you and move on to the next interview.
Are you kidding me? You did not say no??
Well, being that the job market seems to be so difficult for you in your field requiring you to have 2 years experience and you state no thank you, I would woop your behind! Yeah, sorry the mother in me kicks in! I missed if you did internship at all while in college?
Sorry, nvm! You’ll figure this out, just don’t wait too long to actually say yes. You may not get the number you are looking for. You should not expect a certain level of pay just out of college. Does college tell you that? Is that their selling point? UGH
Sorry again Black_Shark, I don’t mean to be snipping at you! I’m just envisioning what I would do to my son if he ever told me that. Ever heard the saying I brought you into this world and I can take you out? Yeah, that’s me! hahaha
A friend of mine got his PhD in philosophy. He ended living in a hovel in Harlem and driving a cab, with a side job as a lexicographer. Eventually, when he grew tired of that lifestyle and was pushing forty, he went to Columbia Law School. These days, he's quite affluent.
Maybe Target is hiring.
It's hard to conceive of working as a data analyst without being at least an amateur programmer.
I would learn Python next. The language encompasses a lot of good programming philosophy. It has tons of libraries available. It is well supported by its large user community. Ruby wouldn't be a bad idea as well.
You want a tool that will let you apply your own algorithms and ideas to the data you are analyzing, that will clean up and organize the data and summarize it as you wish. Once you start using such a tool, you will find that you will learn it relatively painlessly, the motivation coming from the tool's usefulness.
Oh, and it wouldn’t hurt to be proficient in SQL as well. And, if you can choose which DBMS, go with PostgreSQL. It’s free and very powerful. Most business data is either already in a DBMS or could benefit from being placed in one by a knowledgeable analyst.
Learn Apache Wicket, once you go Wicket, you'll never even think about Struts again....although, like COBOL, there are still a lot of legacy apps running on it.
I have to use struts for my job, it isn’t always what you want to do. I also have to build a hibernate app and I have no choice in the matter. I am the type that learns from necessity, if my job required skill A then I would obtain skill A. I also try to anticipate, if I think skill B would be useful on my job I will learn it on my own.
My point was about his high expectations, not questions posed during job interviews.
I’m sorry I didn’t fully explain. By deadend job I mean sales at Norhwestern Mutual NOT a contract-to-hire job or job in my field. And by refuse, I refuse in favor of a masters in Econ with a masters minor in stats.
I would never turn down a job in my chosen field or one with promising networking opportunities.
That’s my fault for not specifying.
Sales? UGH, no way, no how! I didn’t realize it was unrelated. Good choice on your part then. :)
> My point was about his high expectations, not questions posed during job interviews.
I suppose I should have been more explicit: it seems that the basic respect for having graduated with a degree in the field *IS* a high expectation.
I would say that a young person needs to get used to the eccentricities that go on during job interviews. No need to accept the job but why not just answer all questions to the best of your ability and then walk out, swearing never to work for THAT person. Learning how to deal with job interviews is just as important as actually doing the job.
I was once asked during a job interview to do an algebra problem! I did it but knew the guy was a bit of a jerk. (The job had nothing to do with algebra or even math, lol!)
haha, thank you.
How many high school students are offered $35,000/yr to start with zero experience?
Incidentally -- it may bear thinking about. If you take one of those jobs, it starts counting towards "experience".
Only you know your goals best, but there is a lot of good advice up and down this thread: based on people's actually having been in the working world.
Are you committed to only one geographical area, or are you free to move? Are you open only to full-time permanent, or would you consider contracting?
I’m open to move anywhere. I have mentioned, multiple times, that the job was insurance sales. Compete dead end job with worthless exp. I’d take. 20k job in data analysis but not insurance sales.
I’m a horrible salesman