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Bullying incident shows pervasive school bias against self-defense(CO)
Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 19 April, 2012 | David Codrea

Posted on 04/22/2012 6:21:10 PM PDT by marktwain

“9-year-old suspended after he says he stood up to a bully,” a Fox 31 Denver report informs us

Third-grader Nathan Pemberton “was kicked out of school Tuesday after he says he stood up to a bully who was beating him up.”

“One kid kicked me in the back, then punched me in the face. Then I punched him in the face, and then I got in trouble,” he says.”

The school has a “no tolerance” policy that results in an automatic suspension, regardless of who started a fight. In other words, children are required by law to attend—under legal truancy penalties if they don’t comply—and then forbidden to defend themselves from other inmates.

“District 11 schools employ many anti-bullying teaching techniques,” spokesperson Devra Ashby said in a public statement, “and none of these methods include violence or retaliation.”

“9-year-old suspended after he says he stood up to a bully,” a Fox 31 Denver report informs us

Third-grader Nathan Pemberton “was kicked out of school Tuesday after he says he stood up to a bully who was beating him up.”

“One kid kicked me in the back, then punched me in the face. Then I punched him in the face, and then I got in trouble,” he says.”

The school has a “no tolerance” policy that results in an automatic suspension, regardless of who started a fight. In other words, children are required by law to attend—under legal truancy penalties if they don’t comply—and then forbidden to defend themselves from other inmates.

“District 11 schools employ many anti-bullying teaching techniques,” spokesperson Devra Ashby said in a public statement, “and none of these methods include violence or retaliation.”

One wonders, were someone physically violating Ms. Ashby, if she’d insist that she, too, would deserve punishment for fighting back.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: banglist; co; constitution; defense
The schools are deliberately teaching that self defense is not tolerated.
1 posted on 04/22/2012 6:21:18 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

The public school system ought to be abolished.


2 posted on 04/22/2012 6:23:29 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: marktwain

Some school district employee should go to prison for this incident.


3 posted on 04/22/2012 6:28:13 PM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: marktwain

Kids need to start beating the crap out of teachers and principals. If they fight back, they need to be fired.


4 posted on 04/22/2012 6:28:49 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: marktwain
We have a number of Freepers who find it difficult to believe that a child could be suspended from school for defending himself from a violent attack, however that is the STANDARD thing in most school districts.

As a result knowledgeable Freepers NEVER automatically assume that a kid who's been kicked out of school actually did anything bad.

5 posted on 04/22/2012 6:34:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: marktwain
The folks from District 11 need to fire these teachers ASAP...and escort them out of town. Use violence if necessary.


6 posted on 04/22/2012 6:37:36 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: marktwain

Ping


7 posted on 04/22/2012 6:38:25 PM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: muawiyah
My son in 3rd grade had an obamas son who was stealing his pencils pens etc. He wrote a note “ Steal my stuff and die” to the other person. Ther was no further theft. We were called to the office but that was it. He was reminded nothing in writing. This was 8 years ago in NC
8 posted on 04/22/2012 6:43:11 PM PDT by Greg223
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To: Secret Agent Man

>Kids need to start beating the crap out of teachers and principals. If they fight back, they need to be fired.

LOL — Aye, it’s a strange place I find we inhabit.


9 posted on 04/22/2012 6:45:52 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: marktwain

Of course they are.

As a teacher in public schools, I can say that the recent rise of bullying is DIRECTLY caused by rules that punish kids equally whether they bully or defend themselves.

Consider a kid who is a chronic troublemaker. Knowing he can get a 10 day suspension, and his general apathy toward school, and the PS3 or Xbox waiting for him at home, it’s almost enticing for him to find someone to beat up.

And, at least in our school, kids who participate in any extracurricular activities like sports or organizations, know they can be kicked out of these activities if they get a suspension. So, in effect, the punishment is GREATER for kids who actually care about something and take some pride in participating in school activities.

And of course, it doesn’t matter how much the bully threatens, because if he isn’t caught in the act, all the teachers can do is document the incidents and perhaps refer the bully to the counselor. Any more, and parents will get lawyers involved, claiming that the staff is persecuting their kids.

So the effect is the bullies know they’ll have an easy 10 day vacation, and not have to risk retaliation because a good kid might be reluctant to fight back.

The good kids know that if they defend themselves, they’ll have a suspension on their permanent record and not be allowed to participate in any extracurricular activities.

Is there a sane adult that really believes this helps bullying?

But, instead of using common sense, those who make school laws (most of whom have never set foot in a classroom since graduation) decide to handle it through anti-bullying programs, which are useless. Bullies become bullies because they DON’T CARE how their actions affect others. What good will a feel-good anti-bullying program do for a bully?

It is all about conditioning students to rely on authority for everything and making them dependent.

Personally, though, I always have the bad luck of looking the other way when good kids fight back against a bully. And, if the good kid seems to be getting the better of a bully, I, with my chronic foot pain, sometimes have a hard time getting to the fight to break it up before the bully might get a few good shots in the face. Which I never see.

*wink*


10 posted on 04/22/2012 6:46:52 PM PDT by FLAMING DEATH (Are you better off than you were $4 trillion ago?)
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To: marktwain

A friend’s grand daughter was given that “0 Tolerance For Violence” bit. This 3rd grader had been in a gifted program. The school had Mexican students who were busily fondling her butt.

Eventually, another boy (white) did the same.

She decked the boy during recess, and was charged by the lil’ perp’s big brother. Seeing the size, and correctly identifying his out of control rage as a serious risk which she could not deal with due to size and age differences - - she tenderized his Tenders. He was taken to the hospital at once.

Had she made written complaints, she could have sued the school and won. But, as she wanted to just be left alone, she had not “exhausted administrative remedies”. Let’s just ignore the futility of how attempting to change Mexican school boys behavior with words.

Rather than deal with the festering multicultural conflict, the educrats blamed the victim and Suspended HER!

Clearly, caning educrats is long overdue.


11 posted on 04/22/2012 6:48:44 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: darkwing104

This has been going on in Colorado for a long time. Four years ago in a Junior High School, my niece was being beaten up by three hispanic girls at once. She fought back and was suspended the same amount of time the attackers were. It did not matter that she had gone to the office twice in recent weeks asking for help because these same girls were pushing her around. She finally got frustrated enough and fought back. Fortunately her parents let her know that she did the right thing and stood by her. However, that changed nothing at the school nor the suspension. We have got to end the NEA and the Department of Education. But I fear it is too late even if we could.


12 posted on 04/22/2012 6:50:54 PM PDT by JoSixChip (We had an opportunity to get Newt, but you blew it and now we get mitt.)
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To: marktwain

The school is supporting the bully. You can not be nuetral. Being nuetral only supports the stronger side, which is the bully.


13 posted on 04/22/2012 6:56:33 PM PDT by healy61
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To: FLAMING DEATH

When my daughter was in school a few years back when this really got started, she brought home the paper work from school that we had to ‘read together and sign.

I typed up the alternative version that said basically “If assaulted by a ‘bully’ my daughter will defend herself to the full extent of her ability and regardless of the outcome, the school will be sued for allowing that assault to take place. During her suspension, I will take vacation days from work and we will have the time of our lives doing all the things she wants to do. There will be no ‘punishment’, rather it will be a great time for her. Should the school choose to expel her, she will get a GED and the school loses money.”

In short, I made it clear that they could “urinate up a rope’. I never did sign their version and she presented them with ours.


14 posted on 04/22/2012 7:02:01 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: muawiyah

“...a kid who’s been kicked out of school actually did anything bad”.

My son has had a suspension or two due to the zero tolerance policy. I fought both suspensions and they were removed from his record. Both of his suspensions were the result of him fighting back with multiple other boys. (He didn’t start the fight but he was told by us to defend himself). As for his sisters, we have also told them that no one has the right to hurt them. No one. So, if someone hits them, they are to defend themselves. In schools with Zero Tolerance, suspensions are near meaningless. Most (if not all) of my neighbors kids have been suspended at least once (boys and girls). I hate to say this but the suspension is now meaningless to most kids since so many suspensions result from the zero tolerance.


15 posted on 04/22/2012 7:06:23 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: Norm Lenhart

Good for you Norm. We think very much alike.


16 posted on 04/22/2012 7:08:59 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: marktwain

A teacher had this program where self defense was discouraged, actually, demonized.

I talked with her about it. She’s about 5’2” and 100 pounds and I asked her that if my son, around 6 feet tall, saw some student or man attacking her, if she would want him to beat the cr@p out of him to stop the assualt or would she rather he let it happen while waiting for the police to respond.

She didn’t know what to say. She said it’s a school required program and she needed to think about it. Young liberals do not think through the things they support. They get a cause like “non-violence” and then they march on pushing it. “Wouldn’t it be great if the world was non-violent! Let’s teach the children.”


17 posted on 04/22/2012 7:09:42 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: marktwain
I don't believe the schools are against self-defense.

I believe they are against self-defense while white.

18 posted on 04/22/2012 7:10:14 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Do I really need a sarcasm tag? You're really that dense? Really?)
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To: marktwain

My 13 year already knows that he has a right to defend himself and I told him it is better to defend himself and get suspended and have the respect of the other kids versus being a pu$$y and not defend himself.

This is the same crap I had to put up when I was in school. I had problems with some bullies and when I stand up for myself, I got in trouble. I told my son that he would expect to get in trouble but mentioned to him the schools are full of it when it come to that.


19 posted on 04/22/2012 7:10:43 PM PDT by CORedneck
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To: JoSixChip
Finding it necessary to help my youngest I went to the school with him the next morning and called the police to come and arrest the principal for attacking me.

He was in a rage when he saw the cop car outside and almost did attack me.

Lots of these school administrators really aren't well-wrapped.

I did get the Vice Principal removed from public schools and the Principal was moved somewhere else soon after.

He never had anymore trouble with those people, although the Vice Principal did try to push me. That's how she ended up without a job.

20 posted on 04/22/2012 7:16:01 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: marktwain

And even if the person being beat up does not fight back, that person is the one labeled as having the “problem” by the school administrators.


21 posted on 04/22/2012 7:16:57 PM PDT by Fred Hayek (The Democratic Party is the operational wing of CPUSA.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

I was prepared to go to the wall with these idiots, and I’ll be damned if I was going to stand there and let my kid get beat on to sooth their liberal consciences. Fortunately I never had to, but I made the school aware that at least one parent was not going to cave in.

I can also say that the kids my daughter new were not going to stand there and get beat regardless of what their (some unfortunately
) lib parents thought on the matter. Self defense is a human right, regardless of feel good policy.

I’m sure they looked down their nosed and snickered, having no intention of changing the ‘way they do business’, but they count on there being one or two parents like me and a school full of sheep willing to go along to get along.

Oh well... from time to time that one parent like me takes them to court and it costs money to the taxpayer. Hopefully at some point the taxpayer will notice and vote accordingly in school board elections to save themselves some cash.


22 posted on 04/22/2012 7:40:56 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: SaraJohnson

““Wouldn’t it be great if the world was non-violent! Let’s teach the children.””

This is where their disdain for all things military really hurts their thinking (or lack thereof). Were they not so ‘non violent’ they would no that “No plan survives first contact with the enemy.”


23 posted on 04/22/2012 7:44:06 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Norm Lenhart

Edit “KNOW”... (I need more caffeine ;)


24 posted on 04/22/2012 7:48:03 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: marktwain

I got suspended once in school for fighting long ago. Of course, I almost knocked him unconscious with a history book to the face when he punched me in the back. His blood flowed like sweet red wine from his busted nose.

My mother was not amused by the actions of the school. Since it was established that the other kid started the fight and had tormented me for weeks, she asked why I was suspended. I spent the 3 days with Mom teaching me. I was not punished by her. Oh yeah, the bully never bothered me again.


25 posted on 04/22/2012 7:55:04 PM PDT by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: OneWingedShark

That’s because in reality, common sense always beats zero tolerance.


26 posted on 04/22/2012 7:59:59 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: packrat35

I hope the book cleaned up OK ;)


27 posted on 04/22/2012 8:01:26 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Norm Lenhart

Yep, remember those thick plastic book covers. They wipe clean. LOL


28 posted on 04/22/2012 8:09:47 PM PDT by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: packrat35

Whew...I was worried for a second. I mean a book often contains something of value, as opposed to a ‘bully’, that never does. I’d hate to think the book took damage ;)

BS aside, I often sit and ponder how we got to the point that “fighting back is bad regardless of context” as a mainstream thought in society. The number of things that once thinking people had to ignore or accept, that run contrary to the thinking process to get here is staggering.

Then I reread the 1963 congressional testimony on communism in America and the answer presents itself....

Congressional Record—Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963
Current Communist Goals
EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, January 10, 1963
Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.
At Mrs. Nordman’s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen:
[From “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen]
CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture—education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [”]united force[”] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.


29 posted on 04/22/2012 8:17:08 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: marktwain

First grade, I taught my son how to make a fist and told him to defend himself and that we would deal with the consequences. His school has small classes which tend to have less (not none, but less) of that sort of thing. I figure it’s better to prepare him beforehand.


30 posted on 04/22/2012 8:34:14 PM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Obama 2012: Dozens of MSNBC viewers can't be wrong!)
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To: darkwing104; marktwain; Brilliant; samtheman; Secret Agent Man; Greg223; OneWingedShark; ...
Just an old fashioned girl, I found this a few years ago and being similar to my childhood I was compelled to save it.

I ams still glad I did.

How To Fight

December 20th, 2006.

The summer I turned 6 years old, some of the neighborhood boys started bullying me. Back then, I owned a pair of cabbage patch kid roller-skates and my favorite activity was skating around the block singing nursery rhymes at the top of my lungs. One day, a few boys in the 8-10 range thought it would be pretty humorous to push me around and watch me flail. I tried to run from them, but I couldn’t skate faster than they could run. They taunted me for a while and then knocked me down. Angry, humiliated, and with two freshly skinned knees, I did what< em>any 6 year old girl would do in my position.

I went home and told my Dad.< /span>

My Father was an ex marine and always preached the benefits of learning self defense. Unlike most parents, he had no interest in calling the parents of my bullies to ‘open up a dialogue’ or some other such tripe. Instead, he planned to teach me to kick a little ass.

My Mother balked at this idea. She didn’t think little girls should be fighting. Little girls were supposed to have tea parties and then play dress up. Fighting was for little boys.

“What if someday a vicious serial killer kidnaps her?” my Father asked, “Do you want her to die weeping and begging for her life? Or would you rather she have the courage to wrench the knife from the killer’s hand and stab him in the throat?”

He paused, mid tirade, and said to me,& #8220;If that ever happens, V, stab and twist. Stab and twist.”

With my Mother temporarily mollified, My Father took me into the back yard to teach me how to fight.

Nervously, I explained to my Father that not only was I outnumbered by the boys, but they were bigger and stronger than I was. There was no way that I could beat them. My Father merely brushed my fears aside. He said that while they had the advantage of size and strength on their side, I could develop my own advantages. Here are some tips that he gave me:

1. Always Respond to Threats with Complete Confidence
Sometimes all it takes to make a bully re-think pounding you into a pulp is to make it very clear to him exactly how< em>unafraid< /span>you are of a physical confrontation. When a bully threatens you, he is trying to invoke in you some fear in which he can feed off of. If you respond to his threats with confidence, even eagerness, it will give him a pause. If he doesn’t chicken out right then and there, he will enter the fight with a slight feeling of unease. His apprehension is your advantage.

2. Fighting Dirty is Fighting Smart
A fist fight isn’t the same as a karate tournament with judges and points. Your opponent is trying to hurt you, so don’t let some silly moral argument prevent you from kicking the little bastard in the nuts. Throw sand in his eyes, kick him in the back of the knees, bite him, or punch him in the stomach hard enough to knock the wind out of him. If he’s got you pinned down and you happen to see a rock out of the corner of your eye? Don’t be afraid to grab that rock and smash his face with it. There is no shiny trophy waiting for you at the end of this fight, so everything goes.

3. Talk Some Shit
Nothing will rattle your opponent faster than you screaming a steady stream of shit at him while you’re engaged in combat. The crazier you sound the better. If you can’t think of anything tough to yell, yell nonsense like, “I’m going to eat your eyes!” If you can’t think of any nonsense to yell, just plain scream. The second your opponent suspects that you’re a freaking lunatic he’s going to get scared. Fear causes people to make mistakes.

4. When You Lose, Claim It Didn’t Hurt
Sometimes you’re just outmatched. But even losing a fight can be used to your advantage. When it’s over, feel free to spit blood in his face and tell him that it ‘didn’t hurt.’ Laugh when he walks away. You might have just gotten your ass kicked six ways from Sunday, but I guarantee you that anyone< em>watching that fight will think twice about ever messing with you in the future. No one wants to fuck with the crazy kid who feels no pain.

Armed with my new tips and tricks, I laced up my skates and headed out to face the jungle that is childhood. When the boys confronted me again, I dared them to mess with me. One ballsy kid lunged towards me with the intent of pushing me down. Quickly, I kicked that kid squarely between the legs with my skate. He crumpled to the ground as I hysterically screamed at his friends, “I’LL EAT YOUR EYES! I’LL EAT ALL OF YOUR EYES!” Terrified, those boys got up and ran like Hell. I’ve never felt so empowered in my entire life.

In retrospect, I think my Father was just trying to teach me a little something about fear and courage. Back then, and even< em>more so today, it became quite popular to advise your children to: Run. Hide. Look away. Go get someone bigger. Be afraid. As a result, modern children and adults alike are easily paralyzed by fear and have no idea how to defend themselves.

After reading certain articles on my website, I’ve even seen people comment, “What is she going to do if she says the wrong thing to the wrong person? She’s going to end up getting hurt or killed.”

I feel sorry for those people. So paralyzed by fear of what might happen, that they lack the courage to stand up for themselves or for someone weaker. I refuse to live my life afraid to say what I feel or do what is right because there might be some mysterious villain lurking in the shadows who is bigger and stronger. Better to be dead, than to live your life afraid.

Besides, I could just as easily spend my life acting meek and compliant only to still< /span>end up with a bullet in my head. However, because my Father taught me courage, it’s not likely that I’d go down without a fight. Who knows? I may even end up wrenching a knife from some psycho’s hands and stabbing him in the throat with it.

Of course, I’ll remember to stab< em>and twist.

This article is one of my most popular posts.

 

 


31 posted on 04/22/2012 8:37:00 PM PDT by Lady Jag
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To: FLAMING DEATH
Same thing happened with my son many years ago, he is grown now. Some kid punched him and he punched back and continued to kick the kids butt. He got put in alternative education for a week.

I went to the High School to make sure his story was correct. It was the truth. I asked the principal what he was supposed to do? The principal said he should have tried to “block the blows” but not punch back. I told the principal if he had done that he would gotten severely beaten. I asked what he would do then. He said they would call the local cops. Which they did as he kicked the aggressors butt. Fortunately the local prosecutor did not have her head up her butt like the principal of the school.

I asked the principal if I attacked him viciously and put his life in danger would he just try to block my punches? He said nothing.

I went home and told my son he did the right thing and I would expect him try and avoid a fight but if it is going to happen, kick his ass.

32 posted on 04/22/2012 8:50:01 PM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: JoSixChip

Back in 1960 (6th grade) I lived in South Louisiana but I was from Texas. I immediately became the object of bullying as I was an outsider. I do not like fighting and I put up with it for about 2 months and finally went “beserko.”

I grabbed the kid that had just hit me. I brought him down to the concrete floor and started beating his head against it. I intended to hurt him badly. Fortunately some other students pulled me off of him. After that nobody bothered me.


33 posted on 04/22/2012 9:00:07 PM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: Norm Lenhart

Bravo sir!

I did not want my kids going through school with the problems I had due to bullies. If one person in the school was getting beat on or thrown in the mud, it was likely me.

I put both kids in a small religious private school and both started Karate at about age 6.

Word goes around and all but the craziest kid will leave a kid who knows self defense alone.

I too am participating in the sport and have to admit that it is the most fun I have ever had. I really enjoy the sparring. I sparred at a big Black Belt test a week ago and still hurt, although not in near as many places. (^;

Oh yea, now I also teach Karate at their school.


34 posted on 04/22/2012 9:23:20 PM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: marktwain

Nearly the same thing happened to me 60 years ago. Yes, you read right; I was in 8th grade. A guy who had tried to intimidate me verbally, which I ignored, decided it was time to make physical contact, which he did by jumping on my back very roughly from behind. I turned and it was on. Our very brief scuffle was broken up almost immediately. At my meeting with the female principal I was told that if I was fighting again I would be suspended. She said that the other boy, Joe Wolf by name (who cares if I name him after all these years), said he was only playing. I replied that he was not a friend and that if he accosted me again I would defend myself as before. She dismissed me without any further comment that I can recall. After that Joe Wolf challenged me to a fight with boxing gloves. I told him I was not interested and to stay away from me. He never said a word to me afterwards or came near me. Hope this personal anecdote was not intrusive.


35 posted on 04/22/2012 9:33:41 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: Clay Moore

Knowing self defense is ALWAYS a good thing ;)

Here’s a side note people often never consider. The children in the liberal 60s, when this bs began, and since, were/have been taught pacifism at all costs.

Those kids are now (and have been a while now) heading up significant portions of our military, all of the education system and hold most of the current political offices.

Rhetorical Question 1: Is it a surprise that they continue the to embrace pacifism at all costs, never having been taught an alternative?

Rhetorical Question 2: Is it a surprise that the aggressor nations/philosophies of the world are rapidly taking over?

My point: The kid that grows up on a diet of pussification/pacifism becomes the man/woman cowering and appeasing to the Irans and Obamas of the world. They were taught you were ‘supposed’ to.


36 posted on 04/22/2012 9:44:12 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: FLAMING DEATH

On his first day of wrestling club, my son, then in fourth grade was mugged in the parking lot of the middle school, where the club met. I told him if it happened again and he chose to use his wrestling skills to defend himself, he would not be in trouble with me. His tears turned to a smile. The next day, he was attacked again by the same kid. One perfectly executed takedown later, the bully was on his back on the pavement, whimpering for his Mommy.

But as a senior, on the day of the big meet, he was thrown to the ground in the men’s room by one of Holder’s people. My son fully understood the zero tolerance policy. He knew he would be suspended and miss the meet. You could say he took one for the team. Later, his black teammates learned of the attack and took care of business with the perpetrator back in the ‘hood.

I paid a visit to the principal. He told me if he’d learned of the attack, he would have suspended both boys. The reason he gave me was
that it’s too hard to figure out who was at fault.


37 posted on 04/22/2012 10:02:41 PM PDT by ntnychik
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To: marktwain
Zero-Tolerance doesn't work, and causes more harm than good.
38 posted on 04/22/2012 10:04:44 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: ntnychik

The principal unfortunately and inadvertently taught the students a valuable lesson. That being, “Right and Wrong do not matter in today’s liberal society. Only agenda.”

Problem is, that idiot has no place in a position of authority or having influence over kids/young adults to begin with.


39 posted on 04/22/2012 10:22:03 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: marktwain

the thing today is verbal bullying is tolerated but when a kid fights back from being mercilessly taunted then he gets in trouble

wiseasses and women run the schools...too many women with no clue

a far cry from my day when you better not let your mouth overload your ass

I’m talking suburban whitebread schools

not inner city gang bangs in the bathroom sort of joints


40 posted on 04/22/2012 10:28:30 PM PDT by wardaddy (I am a social conservative. My political party left me(again). They can go to hell in a bucket.)
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To: wardaddy

“I’m talking suburban whitebread schools not inner city gang bangs in the bathroom sort of joints”

Today, there’s really no difference. The meth sales/sex et all in my daughter’s schools in the 2000-2006ish era were every bit the whitebread “good” schools. It’s pathetic how bad it is now. And the boards/teachers (no not all but most) just pretend it isn’t.

Some of the stories I heard from her blew my mind. And as I only graduated in 83, I’m not that old. Nor am I a prude. Far from it. Things ‘we’ couldn’t find in a XXX shop then are commonplace in schools ‘facilities’ today.

Such is the ‘culture’ vested on our kids by liberalism.


41 posted on 04/22/2012 10:39:31 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Norm Lenhart
The children in the liberal 60s, when this bs began, and since, were/have been taught pacifism at all costs. Those kids are now (and have been a while now) heading up significant portions of our military, all of the education system and hold most of the current political offices.

Government socialist-entitlement K-12 schooling is our nation's **MOST** serious threat! I seriously doubt that our nation will survive one more generation of voters being subjected to it.

Yet....Conservatives foolishly believe that their child's school is somehow "different". They believe they can deprogram in a few minutes at home the hours of godless and socialist indoctrination to which the child is exposed day after day. Geeze! Liberals don't need to have kids. They get to fill the hearts and minds of the children of conservatives for 13 years, and more, when the kid goes to college.

Personally, I have made a decision. I can no longer have a government school worker for a friend. They are either too evil, too stupid, or too much of a Useful Idiot to be a friend. Yes, government schooling is **that** evil for the child as an individual and for our nation's future.

42 posted on 04/23/2012 4:37:21 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: marktwain
Like the article mentions at its end all these anti-bullying programs seem to have a common mindset: “Nobility of Victimhood.” To me this has always been the outlook that “Violence is never justified even to protect yourself from grievous bodily harm. Allowing yourself to be abused builds character. Just take the beating. It will make you a better person."
Criminally insane.
43 posted on 04/23/2012 4:48:46 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: Lady Jag

I remember that post! “I’ll eat your eyes!” is one of my favorite lines ever written here on FR.

Classic. And similar to the advice my own Marine Daddy gave me as a girl: “Never start a fight. Never be a bully, but if someone starts a fight with you...fight dirty.”

I didn’t have to fight too often after that first time...and it didn’t hurt that by the time I was in high school I was nearly six feet tall. And a redhead. Bullies stayed way clear of me.

Regards,

PS: I too find that punishing the kid defending himself to be ridiculous. In reality, such a kid should be given a commendation from the school and an extra brownie at lunch. Only the bully should be punished — and it’s horsehockey that the teachers don’t know damn right well who the bullies are.


44 posted on 04/23/2012 5:15:05 AM PDT by VermiciousKnid (Sic narro nos totus!)
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To: Norm Lenhart

I’m pleased to say I had a role in his being denied tenure. Sometimes tge system works.


45 posted on 04/23/2012 8:24:25 PM PDT by ntnychik
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To: Lady Jag

If you’re going to go down, go down swinging.


46 posted on 04/24/2012 9:39:29 AM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Obama 2012: Dozens of MSNBC viewers can't be wrong!)
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To: Personal Responsibility




Eye See



47 posted on 04/24/2012 10:18:26 AM PDT by Lady Jag
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To: Personal Responsibility
Oh dear, those eyes were meant for another thread!

I've discovered that if I start with, “I'll eat your eyes out,” it's enough to scare the bejeezus out of them without need for physicality. You just have to be convincing.

Several experiences as an adult have given me greater appreciation of my childhood neighborhood self-defense practice with friends. Eating eyes out is just one, injuring a pick pocket another, and showing a firearm to a mugger another.

There is little better than learning real self-confidence in childhood instead of the fake one they propagandize kids with in schools today.

48 posted on 04/24/2012 10:45:36 AM PDT by Lady Jag
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To: marktwain

I’m a reporter. I cover school boards as part of my work and I’ve seen how the anti-bullying policies work in theory and practice.

Having lived and worked in inner-city environments in the past, I’m not unaware of the problems of gang warfare in the schools and I understand the reasons for these zero-tolerance policies. There are situations in which it is simply impossible to tell who is the victim and who is the perpetrator because in most cases all sides in the fight are engaged in verbal or physical intimidation of other groups, and banning all violence may seem at first to make sense. In environments like that, everybody but the gangbangers is already afraid to fight back because they assume anyone threatening violence is armed and can call on numerous fellow gang members to back them up.

However, apart from gang warfare environments, these anti-bullying policies have turned schoolyard stupidity into a situation where the cure is worse than the disease. These policies are punishing victims and teaching “learned helplessness.”

I’m all for protecting victims who can’t defend themselves or for whatever reason choose not to do so, but defending oneself is not wrong.

It will take a few years before the policies change, but so many bullying victims are being punished for defending themselves that I believe parents will eventually deal with this at the voting booth if teachers don’t start rejecting the policies.


49 posted on 04/27/2012 5:32:35 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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