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The next health care overhaul? Look to employers
AP ^ | 4-24-12 | RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR

Posted on 04/24/2012 5:27:47 AM PDT by TurboZamboni

If the Supreme Court strikes down President Barack Obama's health care law, employers and insurance companies—not the government—will be the main drivers of change over the next decade and maybe even longer. They'll borrow some ideas from Obamacare, and push harder to cut costs.

Business can't and won't take care of America's 50 million uninsured, but for the majority with coverage, here's what experts say to expect:

(Excerpt) Read more at twincities.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: employers; healthcare; insurance; jobs; mandates; obamacare
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1 posted on 04/24/2012 5:27:50 AM PDT by TurboZamboni
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To: TurboZamboni

Up until the government getting involved, the industry managed and people had coverage.


2 posted on 04/24/2012 5:36:38 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Solyent Pink is Sheeple!!!!)
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To: TurboZamboni

I’d really like to see health care separated from the employee/employer relationship. You know, like car insurance is.

Duh...


3 posted on 04/24/2012 5:37:59 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: TurboZamboni

I am skeptical of Anything written by the Associated Press.


4 posted on 04/24/2012 5:39:53 AM PDT by radioone
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To: cuban leaf

...and available across state lines without all the state mandates.


5 posted on 04/24/2012 5:40:35 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: cuban leaf
I’d really like to see health care separated from the employee/employer relationship. You know, like car insurance is.

And take the comparison even further: have health insurance do what car insurance does: pay ONLY for accidents. Pay for "maintenance" out of pocket. This would make health insurance much much much less expensive and much less bureaucratic. You know, like we used to have, and called it "major medical."

6 posted on 04/24/2012 5:52:07 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: cuban leaf
I’d really like to see health care separated from the employee/employer relationship. You know, like car insurance is.

Well it always was available. But individual market rates are at least twice as high, as there is no employer paying half the premium.

But the proposed "Association Health Plans" allows trade associations and other organizations (like your church or credit union) to offer group rates.

Currently, only multi-state businesses or labor unions can do this.

7 posted on 04/24/2012 5:52:31 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Currently, only multi-state businesses or labor unions can do this. (across state lines)
8 posted on 04/24/2012 5:54:35 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I pay $156.00 p/month for a policy that covers 100% over the first $5,000. p/year...

How much do you pay p/yr for a policy that only covers up to 80% p/yr after you satisfy a high deductable???

And some of those have a ceiling to them...


9 posted on 04/24/2012 6:06:40 AM PDT by know-the-law
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To: TurboZamboni

I frankly don’t think people are going to be any more receptive to their employer or insurance company “nudging” them on their personal habits than they were about Barry and Moochelle trying to do it.


10 posted on 04/24/2012 6:13:21 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: TurboZamboni
Business can't and won't take care of America's 50 million uninsured

Why should they? The only reason they started offering health care was because of the wage freeze. They couldn't offer the best employees more money, so they offered them a benefit instead to get around the busybody politicians. It wasn't suppose to be for everyone.

Businesses aren't responsible for health care. Insurance companies are, and that's only for those who pay their premiums. Heath care is not a right. It's a privilege for those willing to work to buy it.

All the propaganda about health care being a "right" is nothing but a bold face lie passed around by the Washington control freaks who want to protect their own life of power and privilege at other peoples expense.

If you want health care - get a job and buy it yourself. No man should be used as another mans slave!

.

11 posted on 04/24/2012 6:15:07 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: C. Edmund Wright

—And take the comparison even further: have health insurance do what car insurance does: pay ONLY for accidents. Pay for “maintenance” out of pocket. —

Yep. I’ll add another: I can wave Comprehensive and Collision. Imagine being able to get health care insurance that did not cover Cancer or heart disease? It would be pretty cheap. And I don’t care about either of those. And my wife and I are almost 60. We really don’t need insurance that covers pregnancy.


12 posted on 04/24/2012 6:18:41 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

—Well it always was available. But individual market rates are at least twice as high, —

I’ll bet they wouldn’t be if employers had never been part of it.


13 posted on 04/24/2012 6:19:43 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: know-the-law
And some of those have a ceiling to them...

Not any more. My insurance company notified me in October, 2010 that starting Jan 1st. 2011 there will no longer be a life time max of $5,000,000 on my policy, due to obamacare law and that's one of the reasons they gave for raising my premium 30%. Another part of obamacare that went into effect at the same time was, coverage had to be extended to "children" to age 26.

Both of these things are already in effect.

If obamacare is stricken down by the S.C., will I get a refund? I won't be holding my breath.

14 posted on 04/24/2012 6:21:50 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Romney vs. Obama? One of them has to lose, rejoice in that fact, whichever it is.)
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To: TurboZamboni
This will be the left’s defense of Obamacare, and their attempt to change public opinion. They'll say, ‘It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than if you throw yourself at the mercy of the companies and the insurers’.

Like all drivel and crap that comes from the left, we have to have ready responses to counter them.

Now is the time to put together alternative plans for how to handle health care issues in the US. Health care costs have to come down (I say this as a doc), but this has to happen in a manner that doesn't interfere with patient choice, physician autonomy in decision making, and the development of new therapies and technologies. That said, in my opinion there is no good ‘one size fits all’ solution. This is going to require a multi-layered approach that includes patient incentives.

15 posted on 04/24/2012 6:23:47 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: cuban leaf

They wouldn’t be if government had never been a part of it.

Most of the high premiums are because hospitals and providers make up for the pathetic reimbursement rates from medical welfare programs, by gouging you. (cost shifting)


16 posted on 04/24/2012 6:24:05 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: TurboZamboni
The prime movers in socialized health care have been large companies. They don't want to pay for health care, and this is a way they can dump the cost.

It is another hidden incentive to not do business in the US. My parent company built a plant overseas because of the high taxes and high benefit costs in the US. They built it in France rather than in the Midwest.

If the law gets struck down, you will see a lot of companies lobbying to have true socialized health care.

17 posted on 04/24/2012 6:25:49 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: cuban leaf
Imagine being able to get health care insurance that did not cover Cancer or heart disease? It would be pretty cheap. ...my wife and I are almost 60. We really don’t need insurance that covers pregnancy.

Yeah, those mandates are a drop in the bucket of premium cost drivers. Insurance that doesn't cover anything shouldn't cost much.

And I don’t care about either of those.

You should.

18 posted on 04/24/2012 6:29:42 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
They are doing that already. I know of companies that regularly test for nicotine, and will fire or discipline you if you come up positive. I know of a few personally who will charge you higher rates for each point of BMI you are above normal.

If you expect someone to pay for your health care, they will take an interest in what you do to protect the investment.

19 posted on 04/24/2012 6:30:58 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

—You should.—

What I care about is stuff like my rotator cuff surgery I had about 14 months ago. Broken bones, stuff like that. To use the car analogy, things like getting bearings replaced, fixing damage from accidents, stuff like that.

If the engine starts burning oil, or the body rusts out to the point that the struts break off the frame, it’s time to take this hulk to the junk yard.

My wife’s first husband died of Leukemia at age 27, leaving her with three VERY young children to support. That is a man that needed Cancer coverage in his health insurance. But I’m almost 60, my kids are all in their 20’s and 30’s, and my wife is set up. If I get cancer, I die. It happens. The Lord will take me when he wants me. I don’t need cancer insurance.

Heck, the last time I got a physical was in my late 30’s. Even if they were to catch it, I’d be so far gone it wouldn’t matter.

Life is a mist.

“For me, to die is gain.” - the apostle Paul.


20 posted on 04/24/2012 6:39:38 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

That makes too much sense.


21 posted on 04/24/2012 6:40:32 AM PDT by mel (There are only 2 races decent and undecent people)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
This will be the left’s defense of Obamacare, and their attempt to change public opinion. They'll say, ‘It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than if you throw yourself at the mercy of the companies and the insurers’.

When Hillary first came out with her idea to take over the health care industry, 85% of the American people were happy with their health care, so, as always, the left sent out the trial lawyers to drive up the costs and change that.

The lefts MO.....

Manufacture a crises.
Wait until the people cry out for relief.
Blame those who stand in the way of your plans.
Come in with a new way (socialism), because the old way (liberty) "obviously didn't work."
Presto! Obomacare.

If you want to create a socialist society, you have to destroy the society already in existence first. Then, when the people cry out for a savior - be he God or the devil - people will accept him.

22 posted on 04/24/2012 6:42:49 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Pay for "maintenance" out of pocket. This would make health insurance much much much less expensive and much less bureaucratic. You know, like we used to have, and called it "major medical."

FSA's / HSA's combined with Flexible Spending Accounts do this with great aplomb, with almost zero healthcare inflation. Their is a Doc' that ran for Congress who's business had this combo and his employees liked it...

FSA-HSA's go bye-bye under Obamacare, they are not "qualified" you know, and FSA contributions get cut in half.

Nah, can't have free market stuff that works...

23 posted on 04/24/2012 6:47:32 AM PDT by taildragger (( Palin / Mulally 2012 ))
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To: concerned about politics

“If you want to create a socialist society, you have to destroy the society already in existence first. Then, when the people cry out for a savior - be he God or the devil - people will accept him.”

Agreed. Sprinkle in there the left’s constant attempts to shift American demographics and you have most of their recipe for recreating the country consistent with their ideology.


24 posted on 04/24/2012 6:47:51 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: radioone
I am skeptical of Anything written by the Associated Press.

Yes, and anything by their obviously Progressive/Liberal "experts".

25 posted on 04/24/2012 6:48:07 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: C. Edmund Wright
And take the comparison even further: have health insurance do what car insurance does: pay ONLY for accidents. Pay for "maintenance" out of pocket. This would make health insurance much much much less expensive and much less bureaucratic. You know, like we used to have, and called it "major medical."

The Whole Foods model works quite well. MSAs for out of pocket and cat coverage that kicks in at five grand.

And allow the unused portion of MSAs to roll over, as long as basic preventative care is met such as one doctor visit and one dentist visit a year.

And allow MSAs to be bequeathed as part of an estate.

You would put the Blues out of business in no time. And that is why the establishment doesn't want to take this path.

26 posted on 04/24/2012 6:50:30 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Buckeye McFrog

I don’t know about that. My son’s company health insurance plan offers discounts for various things, like walking (tracked via pedometer, not sure how he enters the info) a specified distance each week, which he is happy to do since it saves him money and kickstarts his exercise program -

I see nothing wrong with offering incentives. I wish I could find one that would get me away from this desk!

Moochelle talks down to people, goes around parents to indoctrinate children, lies shamelessly and offers nothing to the citizens she disdains except the opportunity to see & hear her wonderfulness. That’s not a big seller in flyover country.


27 posted on 04/24/2012 7:03:04 AM PDT by SusaninOhio
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
This will be the left’s defense of Obamacare, and their attempt to change public opinion. They'll say, ‘It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than if you throw yourself at the mercy of the companies and the insurers’.

Won't matter because it will already have been found unconstitutional. Their only remaining move will be to Single Payer, which is a much steeper climb.
28 posted on 04/24/2012 7:06:27 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: redgolum
They are doing that already. I know of companies that regularly test for nicotine, and will fire or discipline you if you come up positive. I know of a few personally who will charge you higher rates for each point of BMI you are above normal.

Yes, and the backlash is coming. It will be led and driven by (Heaven Help Us)....Libertarians. The rest of us may have to make our peace with the idea of dope addicts laying around in every park as the price for restoring some semblance of individual liberty.
29 posted on 04/24/2012 7:10:47 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: TurboZamboni

“and push harder to cut costs”

The only solution. The medical industry always pushes to increase their income. Employer-provided insurance has resulted in “that cost is crazy but I don’t have to pay it so I’ll give it no further thought”.

Those of that need health care services and products, which is all of us, have been like frogs in the pan as the water is slowly heated. Now it’s pretty hot, huh?

The pressure to cut costs will cause the medical industry to scream. It’s like hammering iron into a new shape. You heat it red hot. Smells are emitted, a few sparks fly, you pound it, the ignorant ones think the chunk is being destroyed. But ultimately it’s given the new shape, it cools off, and everything is fine.

We users of healthcare services and products will have to accept cutbacks as well.


30 posted on 04/24/2012 7:14:37 AM PDT by cymbeline
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To: TurboZamboni

This sounds like the propaganda that comes from the left to make government look good in what they do—all things to all people..bigger government is not the answer..unless you want to lose more freedom.


31 posted on 04/24/2012 7:19:27 AM PDT by rxtn41
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Then companies will just dump health care. You can not ask a company to keep paying for the bad choices of their employees with out some sort of control over those choices.

One way or another, employer paid health benefits will end.


32 posted on 04/24/2012 7:23:03 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: cymbeline
We users of healthcare services and products will have to accept cutbacks as well.

Liberals use trial lawyers to destroy what they want to replace.

Name anything on the liberal agenda list, and you'll find trial lawyers trying to bankrupt or crimminalize their opponents. The trial lawyers are the lefts PC police. They're todays brown shirts.

Tort reform would get them out of the way, and health care costs would plummet overnight. Their hands would be tied.

33 posted on 04/24/2012 7:25:32 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: cuban leaf
If I get cancer, I die.

Not necessarily

It happens.

It also doesn't happen.

I’m almost 60

Congratulations, young feller. You're now entering the period in your life where you need at least catastrophic care coverage the most. Been screened for cancer lately?

One good $100,000 medical bill will probably take your family out financially.

The Lord will take me when he wants me.

True, that's why he gave you oncologists.

If you decline treatment for cancer, it will likely be a very long and very painful death....and probably unnecessary.

I don’t need cancer insurance.

Yeah ya do. If you think premiums are high, try paying for radiation and chemotherapy out of pocket.

34 posted on 04/24/2012 7:30:36 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

I said in my post that I have not been screened, nor do I intend to be. It will not cost $100,000 because to be charged for a treatment you have to actually get the treatment.

How much did it cost people who got cancer in 1700?

You call me old. The Bible pegs the average lifespan at 70 years. I’m not young. But I’m also very active. I just stopped doing the annual one day Seattle to Portland bike ride because I have the heart fibrillation thing. Last time I did it I hit a wall like bonking but it took many hours to recover. I keep myself to rides under 50 miles now, just in case.

It is also why the one thing I do concern myself with is stroke.

Regarding cancer, just give me some pain medication.


35 posted on 04/24/2012 7:38:56 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Also, I own this on DVD. I no longer support the cancer industry in any way, shape or form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuESsEZ2kH0

Ever heard of Max Gerson?


36 posted on 04/24/2012 7:40:50 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: redgolum
One way or another, employer paid health benefits will end.

One way or the other they will still end up paying for them. If enough people wind up without coverage they'll just raise taxes out the ying-yang to fund their next Socialized Medicine scheme.
37 posted on 04/24/2012 7:47:47 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: dirtboy
You would put the Blues out of business in no time. And that is why the establishment doesn't want to take this path.

I think you're just a bit off base here. I have a policy like that with "one of the blues" - and it works great for them and I. In fact, the blues invented such plans. In my state, the blues are advertising such a plan now heavy. It is GOVERNMENT and UNIONS who perverted it to cover every little thing, not the private "blues."

38 posted on 04/24/2012 7:55:47 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: redgolum

If companies want to hire the best employees they will offer health care coverage. Otherwise the best employees will leave, bank on it.

Hey its their choice also, maybe they don’t want good employees.


39 posted on 04/24/2012 7:56:40 AM PDT by desertfreedom765
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To: C. Edmund Wright
I think you're just a bit off base here. I have a policy like that with "one of the blues" - and it works great for them and I.

I agree, out of business is a bit harsh. But they also push for a model where they are heavily involved in plans requiring a lot of intervention, and therefore fees.

40 posted on 04/24/2012 8:00:06 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: desertfreedom765

Unions will get waivers and special exceptions in order to be considered “best company to work for”.

Then workers can unite to hail The One.


41 posted on 04/24/2012 8:00:17 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Exactly. Have the insureds pay for checkups and routine care, at least a good percentage of it, enough for people to think about the costs and watch for fraudulent charges. Then co-pays significant enough that people will question the need for that 3rd MRI or CT scan, before just going ahead with it.


42 posted on 04/24/2012 8:07:36 AM PDT by NEMDF
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To: cuban leaf

Amen. And repeal Section 125.


43 posted on 04/24/2012 8:09:42 AM PDT by wordsofearnest (Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
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To: cuban leaf
I’d really like to see health care separated from the employee/employer relationship. You know, like car insurance is.

Why do you think there is age discrimination and offshoring? Health care costs are a huge factor....the company doesn't have to pay for "Vijay in Mumbai"'s health care.

44 posted on 04/24/2012 8:11:35 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: cymbeline
The medical industry always pushes to increase their income...The pressure to cut costs will cause the medical industry to scream.

Did you miss my post? The main cost driver for "healthcare inflation" is recouping losses from underpayment by government programs and other "free healthcare".

Providers need to be forced to pay for bad debt and charity care with some other funding mechanism.

Employer-provided insurance has resulted in “that cost is crazy but I don’t have to pay it so I’ll give it no further thought”.

Partially correct. Consumer driven healthcare (shopping) would go a long way towards creating competition among the providers. But that has nothing to do with the employer. The employer could still offer HSAs as a benefit.

The "group" aspect offers a lower group rate, as well as guaranteed issue. (if you're healthy enough to work, you're healthy enough to insure)

45 posted on 04/24/2012 8:13:05 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: cuban leaf
You call me old.

No I didn't you young whippersnapper. I'm older than that and a cancer survivor. Without fairly easy treatments, I'd be dead by now. It's only a death sentence if you frig around like you are.

The Bible pegs the average lifespan at 70 years.

Well, here in the present time, where we have modern things like horse and buggy spacecraft, the US lifespan is a lot higher than that.

But I’m also very active.

So am I...what cancer?

I have not been screened, nor do I intend to be....Regarding cancer, just give me some pain medication.

Well, the hospice care isn't free either, and your family might not like hearing you scream as the strongest pain medication is unable to keep you comfortable. Sometimes, the only way out for terminal patients is a legal overdose.

You keep quoting Biblical scripture...I thought suicide was a sin.

46 posted on 04/24/2012 8:27:12 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

—where we have modern things—

Every age is “modern” at the time.

—You keep quoting Biblical scripture...I thought suicide was a sin.—

Where did I mention suicide?

Did you glance at the youtube video I referenced or look up Max on the internet? It will give you insight into my perspective on this.

BTW, there is NO history of cancer in my family. Neither side.

You prepare the way you want and I’ll prepare the way I choose. I acknowledge that life in this human vessel is very temporary. I have no desire to prolong it. As wonderful as this life is, I know there is something better waiting. When I am at my best, I take each day as though it was my last.

All people have the exact same life span. We call it “today”. I will live until I can no longer say it is “today”.


47 posted on 04/24/2012 8:49:04 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: desertfreedom765; Buckeye McFrog

Not if everyone starts doing it. If enough companies dump healthcare, it will start a stampede.

And the plan was to raise taxes on the workers, not the corporations. Short sighted isn’t it.


48 posted on 04/24/2012 9:04:49 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: cuban leaf
Where did I mention suicide?

Where you said you would refuse cancer treatment.

there is NO history of cancer in my family. Neither side.

Mine neither.

All people have the exact same life span.

Well, Jeanne Calment lived to be 122. Your wife's first husband died at 27. Hmmmmm...

I have no desire to prolong it.

Wow! Without treatment, you could die from an infected toe nail. So I take it you don't seek treatment for any formerly terminal diseases.

I guess you are old...and a luddite.

49 posted on 04/24/2012 9:06:04 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

—I guess you are old...and a luddite.—

When it comes to medical treatment, yes, I am a luddite.

BTW, I didn’t mention that when my wife’s first husband died, the hospital was expressly told to not take certain life saving procedures. They did anyway, to the tune of a couple hundred thousand dollars, and then he died.

We were designed by our creator to be self healing and self replicating. Ever since the AMA lost the long suit with the Chiropractors, I’ve lost respect for the medical community at many levels. They are a for-profit industry. My father in law is almost 90 and is in the hospital AGAIN as I type this. He’s been to the hospital for prolonged stays about 1/3 of the time for the last several years. And this includes many, MANY costly surgeries. He’s practically an invalid, but at least he’s a good profit center for the medical profession.

In my case, I prefer to treat this body I occupy like I would treat a car I own. I only get the one. I’ll take care of it, use good gas, keep the oil changed, touch up paint nicks and one day it will just wear out. It’s what they do. The boomer generation seems to forget that. I suspect it is the loss of a spiritual perspective that causes that. After all, if this life is all there is, I suppose I’d want to preserve my body as long as possible. But I have something better waiting on the other side.

I don’t expect agnostics or atheists to understand this.


50 posted on 04/24/2012 9:19:34 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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