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Christian anti-cult expert Dr. Douglas Groothius on why he is voting for Romney
The Constructive Curmudgeon ^ | April 26, 2012 | Dr. Douglas Groothius

Posted on 04/27/2012 7:55:18 AM PDT by sonrise57

Why A Principled-Conservative, Bible-Believing Protestant, and Counter-cult Expert Will Vote for Mitt Romney 1. Politics is not the church. It is the art of the possible. Often we choose the lesser of two evils, which is also the evil of two lessers. It is a fallen world. Get over it. Be romantic and optimistic in the primaries (as I was with Michele Bachmann); then get realistic when things narrow down.

2. Protest votes are pointless. They send no message, except that you have robbed the better of the two candidates of a vote. Like it or not, we are stuck with a two-party system for the long haul. See M. Medved's chapter on the failure of third parties in "Ten Lies About America."

(Excerpt) Read more at theconstructivecurmudgeon.blogspot.ca ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cult; lds; mormonism; politics; romney; romneyobama
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Struggling and praying what to do in this up-coming election, particularly given my commitment to God to never vote for a pro-choice candidate, and my uncertainty about where Romney really is on issues that matter to me such as the life issue and other traditional values issues, the small government issue, the personal liberty issue, and so many other issues I am concerned about. This article by someone I truly respect has given me some clarity I think.
1 posted on 04/27/2012 7:55:25 AM PDT by sonrise57
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To: sonrise57

Is he also a blogpimp who posts blogs under News?


2 posted on 04/27/2012 7:56:34 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: sonrise57
ABL Anybody but Liberals. I won't vote for a liberal. Romney is a liberal.

/johnny

3 posted on 04/27/2012 8:14:53 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: sonrise57

If we don’t actively support “the lesser of the two evils,” then we get “the greater of the 2 evils.” (Remember 2008?)


4 posted on 04/27/2012 8:18:11 AM PDT by faithhopecharity (remember when "Four more years!" was a credible campaign slogan for an incumbent?)
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To: sonrise57

If you have indeed made a committment to God to never vote for a pro-choice candidate, I strongly recommend that you keep that vow.


5 posted on 04/27/2012 8:22:32 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: sonrise57
I greatly respect Dr. Groothius (pronounced "groat-heiss"), and have for years. Loved his book, "Truth Decay," and his interviews with Greg Koukl on Stand to Reason.

Nonetheless, I don't agree with his conclusions here.

I believe that me and my family will not suffer any more under Romney than under Obama, especially if conservatives (note not RINOs) control the Senate.

And I am not going to vote for Romney or Obama.

We must each do that of which we are convinced in our own minds.

6 posted on 04/27/2012 8:27:41 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: sonrise57

Your respected professor thinks mighty highly of himself. He starts the article with “Why A Principled-Conservative, Bible-Believing Protestant, and Counter-cult Expert Will Vote for Mitt Romney.”


7 posted on 04/27/2012 8:27:48 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: JRandomFreeper

At least here’s finally a thread where someone admits `pro-choice’ Romney is evil.
But instead of saying, `Run from him,’ this Christian anti-cult expert says, “Vote for him.’
So much for Matthew and, “If your eye offends you .... “. That’s just a bunch of words, like the Constitution.


8 posted on 04/27/2012 8:27:53 AM PDT by tumblindice (Our new, happy lives.)
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To: Resettozero

Yes, this is indeed my biggest obstacle. Southern Baptist leader Richard Land says that the problem evangelicals have with Romney is not hat he is a Mormon it’s that he isn’t Mormon enough since he waffles on such traditional Mormon values issues such as the sanctity of human life and traditional marriage. However Laura makes that argument that sanctity of human life conservatives should be excited that we have converted someone (that would be Romney) to our side. Not sure that he is really converted to the pro-life point of view. His actions speak volumes to the contrary.


9 posted on 04/27/2012 8:31:37 AM PDT by sonrise57 (Help us God for evil men have surrounded us.)
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To: sonrise57

I give up.

It is all in God’s hands now.

And I know he ain’t none to pleased...


10 posted on 04/27/2012 8:34:50 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: sonrise57

Richard Land, like a lot of the Christian elite (not to be confused with the GOP elite...necessarily), has decided to vote for “the lesser of two evils.” Follow him at your own peril.

Willard Romney is a construct, similar to our current President. There is nothing sincere in what he says or stands for.

And yes, many Christians will vote for him because of people like Richard Land, who really should stay out of politics and do the work he is supposed to do. But I and my house will not.


11 posted on 04/27/2012 8:39:09 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero
Your respected professor thinks mighty highly of himself.

His students tell a different tale. He is quite humble.

I think the sentence you mentioned is an attempt at an eye-catcher, not a commentary on his ego.

12 posted on 04/27/2012 8:40:40 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: sonrise57
There is a simple way to make the decision: do you believe this Republic will survive four more years of little barry bastard boy?

I am seeing this nation so close to collapse now and the strategy of Obama and his henchghoons working so effectively to end the sovereignty of We The People that I do not believe America will survive if the sonofabitch is allowed to rule for four more years. I believe it is the right thing to do to try and survive to make a better fight of it rather than allow the final assassination of The Republic via the Cloward-Piven crushing spending and the fascist regime now growing at an alarming pace as the thuggery running the Federal Government work daily to divide this nation's people into tribes pitted against each other and fomenting mayhem and murder along racila lines.

13 posted on 04/27/2012 8:40:57 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: sonrise57

Good post

(Politics) It is the art of the possible. Often we choose the lesser of two evil

This is REALITY

A principled vote in this instance is un principled

Feeling good about one’s purity will not be very comforting for long.

Christianity is about being in the world,not outside it and the REALITY of the world is there will be a choice to be made between Obama and Romney.
Its our job to make that choice .
If we are too good to make that choice we have punted


14 posted on 04/27/2012 8:41:59 AM PDT by woofie (It takes three villages and a forest of woodland creatures to raise a child in Obamaville)
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To: backwoods-engineer

I apologize to the respected and humble professor for thinking his writing is self-serving, bloated, and generally wrong.


15 posted on 04/27/2012 8:44:07 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: MHGinTN

You make a good point.


16 posted on 04/27/2012 8:45:35 AM PDT by sonrise57 (Help us God for evil men have surrounded us.)
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To: woofie

“A principled vote in this instance is un principled.”

Disagree. It is possible to vote but not for Romney or Obama and still remain active in “the game”, in reference to punting.


17 posted on 04/27/2012 8:46:57 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero; Psalm 144; All
Willard Romney is a construct, similar to our current President. There is nothing sincere in what he says or stands for.

100% agree. Which is why I think Obama is no more or no less a threat to liberty than Romney is. They both are bad for the country.

"They are both demons." (Psalm144, I know you didn't say that, but I am, using your words.)

18 posted on 04/27/2012 8:49:17 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: Resettozero
apologize to the respected and humble professor for thinking his writing is self-serving, bloated, and generally wrong.

Yes, like I said in posts above, I agree with you that he is wrong here.

19 posted on 04/27/2012 8:51:48 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: MHGinTN
I am seeing this nation so close to collapse now and the strategy of Obama and his henchghoons working so effectively to end the sovereignty of We The People that I do not believe America will survive if the sonofabitch is allowed to rule for four more years.

I agree with you 100%. Which is why I am not voting for Romney, even though it increases Obama's chances.

Huh?

Yes. The quicker we get to the point where most of the American people are feeling pain from this treasonous government, then quicker it can be dispatched, and the more quickly we return to Constitutional order. Pain and blood are along the quickest path back to the good. The slow path only extends suffering.

20 posted on 04/27/2012 8:55:42 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

The best argument I’ve heard so far is to deny control of both houses of Congress to the Democrats and with significent Conservative Congressional influence impeach Obama and jail his henchmen. Whatcha think?

Couldn’t happen if Willard Romney is elected.


21 posted on 04/27/2012 9:03:09 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero

That’s a nice thought, but is it a realistic possibility? Remember a guy named Bill Clinton?


22 posted on 04/27/2012 9:05:23 AM PDT by sonrise57 (Help us God for evil men have surrounded us.)
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To: sonrise57

We can all dream. My dream doesn’t include Willard Romney.


23 posted on 04/27/2012 9:06:48 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero
impeach Obama and jail his henchmen.

That is one way.

Another would be Congress to declare Obama an impostor and issue a letter of mark and reprisal to the military to jail him and his henchmen.

I think that path is more sure, and is a better recourse to the Constitutional order.

24 posted on 04/27/2012 9:08:23 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: backwoods-engineer

That would work too.


25 posted on 04/27/2012 9:09:30 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: MHGinTN
do you believe this Republic will survive

The Republic is long gone. Voting for Romney won't restore it.

ABL. Anyone but liberals.

/johnny

26 posted on 04/27/2012 9:11:07 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: MHGinTN
MHG, I have to disagree with you here.

I am seeing this nation so close to collapse now

While our country has decayed dramatically, I don't sense imminent collapse. Frankly, I think the foundations of our country are strong enough to withstand four more years of Obama if it is so afflicted. We'll be a weaker nation in four years under Obama than we are now but the same is true under Romney except the table is set for an additional four years of weak, misguided liberal leadership with a Romney second term or the Democrat alternative. A Romney victory effectively freezes out a conservative until 2020 and by then the eight years of liberal leadership (whether eight years of Romney or Romney/2016 Democrat) piled on top of four years of Obama has probably undercut our nation beyond repair.

Even if our nation is teetering on the brink, why send in Romney? If that isn't sending in a boy to do a man's job, I don't know what is.

I'll not be party to putting either of these evils in office and my conscience will be perfectly clear.

27 posted on 04/27/2012 9:11:53 AM PDT by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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To: CommerceComet

“A Romney victory effectively freezes out a conservative until 2020.”

Because of the ever-increasing number of college non-educated voters, plus the rapid aging of those who have learned how to be Conservatives, I don’t think there will ever again be a true-blue American Conservative as President...especially if Willard Romney wins this time.


28 posted on 04/27/2012 9:18:06 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: sonrise57

I don’t consider Mormonism a cult. I just consider it a separate religion. There are plenty of people of other faiths that I’d support for political office.


29 posted on 04/27/2012 9:20:17 AM PDT by Blackyce (President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.")
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To: CommerceComet

Disagree if you wish, but know this, we are so close to economic collapse now that any of a dozen triggering events could topple US into the ditch and bring chaos and mayhem, and death and murder in a wave upon US. That you cannot see the signs must be comforting to you.


30 posted on 04/27/2012 9:35:40 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: woofie
Often we choose the lesser of two evil...Often we choose the lesser of two evil

If you truly believe that the choice is between two evils, as a Christian, you must turn from both (1 Peter 3:11 and a myriad of other Biblical verses). A lesser evil is evil, nonetheless. My obligation to act as a Christian outweighs my civic responsibilities, particularly when I have an option of voting for someone else (such a Virgil Goode).

Just because the world has convinced people that we must vote by choosing between two poisons doesn't mean that God thinks that way (Isaiah 55:8). Every since Reagan, right-thinking Christians have been lured to the false idea that the right political leader will save this nation from itself. If this nation is to be saved, it will be God working through His people and His Church which will do the job, not some prince (Proverbs 146:3). By allowing two Godless men to be the final choices, I think God is sending a message to His people.

31 posted on 04/27/2012 9:37:41 AM PDT by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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To: Resettozero
impeach Obama

We get President Biden. Whoopee.

32 posted on 04/27/2012 9:38:49 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: MHGinTN

A voice of reason. bttt


33 posted on 04/27/2012 9:43:26 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Andrew loved the battle and he knew the stakes." ~ Mark Levin 3/2/12)
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To: Resettozero

Exactly. What if mishach, shadrach and abendigo took this guys advice?


34 posted on 04/27/2012 9:46:07 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: MHGinTN

If that is true Romney can’t stop it from happening but he’d get blamed for it. If it’s going to happen let the architect of it take full credit.


35 posted on 04/27/2012 9:47:57 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: D-fendr

We don’t have to stop impeaching.


36 posted on 04/27/2012 9:48:50 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Have you considered what the collapse will leave in its wake? We are not so fortunate as Aregntina. we are so big a debtor that whole swaths of America will belong to Chicoms and oil Arabs. If we can forestall that even four years, we stand a chance, perhaps slim but a chance, to change the direction. Under little barry bastard commie we have no chance to change the direction.


37 posted on 04/27/2012 9:51:52 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: D-fendr

Wiseacre. But you are right. Forgot Joe. Easy to do.


38 posted on 04/27/2012 9:54:27 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Secret Agent Man

But it would be so very hard to impeach Joe. Remember, as he has told us more than once, he has the highest IQ of anyone in the U.S. Senate. He’s just to smart to get caught doing anything nefarious. Much smarter than all of us.


39 posted on 04/27/2012 9:59:00 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: faithhopecharity

If we actively support evil, we get evil.


40 posted on 04/27/2012 10:01:50 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: faithhopecharity

But many of us Conservatives voted for McCain. Where’s your point?


41 posted on 04/27/2012 10:04:25 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: sonrise57

42 posted on 04/27/2012 10:11:33 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Agree. Except for “Romney...will be less supportive of Islam.”

He is a Christian in the same manner Obama is a Christian and who knows what Willard Romney really thinks...?


43 posted on 04/27/2012 10:18:15 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: ArrogantBustard

I understand your viewpoint. All I mean is that if you are only given two real choices (its a cruel, unfair world) then “reality” says we select the better of the 2 (or else get stuck with the Other). I didn’t invent the rules or they’d be a lot different.


44 posted on 04/27/2012 10:25:18 AM PDT by faithhopecharity (remember when "Four more years!" was a credible campaign slogan for an incumbent?)
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To: Resettozero
"Agree. Except for “Romney...will be less supportive of Islam.”"

You may be right. I don't think Romney would support Islam, but he could be anti-Israel. Mormon theology includes a line of thought that Mormons are the real Israeli descendants and not Israel.

I think I remember Romney making some pro-Israel campaign statements, but Romney's campaign statements are practically worthless due to his frequently employed etch-a-sketcher. And I'm not sure if as Governor he had an opportunity to have a real record on the matter.

45 posted on 04/27/2012 10:25:25 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Resettozero

My point was that a whole lot of other conservatives were dsappointed and did not support senator McCain. That helped bring us the present situation.


46 posted on 04/27/2012 10:29:09 AM PDT by faithhopecharity (remember when "Four more years!" was a credible campaign slogan for an incumbent?)
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To: Resettozero

My point was that a whole lot of other conservatives were dsappointed and did not support senator McCain. That helped bring us the present situation.


47 posted on 04/27/2012 10:29:40 AM PDT by faithhopecharity (remember when "Four more years!" was a credible campaign slogan for an incumbent?)
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To: faithhopecharity
"All I mean is that if you are only given two real choices (its a cruel, unfair world) then “reality” says we select the better of the 2 (or else get stuck with the Other)."

But are we really given only two real choices? It's fear that says nobody else will vote for a third party, so my vote will be wasted. But if enough people stand up to that fear and vote third party, then what happens is the thrid party becomes one of the two dominant parties and the world is changed.

In my opinion there is not enough difference between the two candidates to worry if the other is selected. I think the checks and balances will work better if Obama is reelected than if Romney wins.

48 posted on 04/27/2012 10:29:43 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: faithhopecharity
I will concede for the sake of discussion that "only two real choice" situations exist.

I reject the notion that a US Presidential Election is one of them.

49 posted on 04/27/2012 10:32:23 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: DannyTN

I’m just tipping the balance as heavily as I can away from the “Romney is really an almost-Christian” meme, which right now is weighting down FR threads.


50 posted on 04/27/2012 10:32:36 AM PDT by Resettozero
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