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In UK survey, doctors support denying treatment to smokers, the obese
msnbc.com ^ | April 29, 2012 | msnbc.com staff

Posted on 04/29/2012 7:06:05 AM PDT by John W

A majority of doctors in a United Kingdom survey supported measures to deny non-emergency medical services to smokers and the obese, The Observer newspaper reported Sunday.

Although the survey by the networking website doctors.net.uk was a self-selecting poll, the site's chief executive called the response "a tectonic shift" for the profession.

The results feed into a British debate about "lifestyle rationing" by the National Health Service, the Observer reported.

(Excerpt) Read more at vitals.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: antitobaccoscam; bioethics; deathpanels; eugenics; healthcare; obamacare; obesity; pufflist; scam; socializedmedicine
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1 posted on 04/29/2012 7:06:08 AM PDT by John W
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To: John W

We should be more like Europe. What could go wrong?


2 posted on 04/29/2012 7:09:01 AM PDT by ecomcon
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To: John W

Whaaa?

Besides the obvious - doesn’t denying early care just create bigger expenses in the long run? Isn’t that what “they” say?


3 posted on 04/29/2012 7:09:46 AM PDT by Principled
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To: John W

Interesting... Perhaps the Police and Firefighters and other professionals should decide to withhold their services from these “doctors”.


4 posted on 04/29/2012 7:10:19 AM PDT by The Working Man
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To: John W

What about denying costly medical treatment to homosexuals with AIDS?

Or just to homosexuals in general because of their high risk sexual proclivities?

If smokers and fat people are at risk so are homos.


5 posted on 04/29/2012 7:13:36 AM PDT by Iron Munro (If Repub's paid as much attention to Rush Limbaugh as the Dem's do, we wouldn't be in this mess)
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To: John W

Even if it is help with smoking cessation or weight loss? It isn’t healthy people who need a doctor, but those who are sick.


6 posted on 04/29/2012 7:16:29 AM PDT by jmcenanly ("The more corrupt the state, the more laws." Tacitus, Publius Cornelius)
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To: John W

Honestly this is all just an inevitable consequence of people being able to make health decisions with other having the pay for the results. Something has to give.


7 posted on 04/29/2012 7:17:02 AM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: John W
I could possibly support disincentives for smokers regarding health care (higher health insurance premiums,for example) and might support similar disincentives for people who are obese without a good excuse (disabilities that make exercise difficult or impossible,for example) but denying care is crazy.BEYOND crazy!
8 posted on 04/29/2012 7:18:32 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: Principled
Actually there are substantive studies out there that prove little or no advantage to 'preventative care' ~ it's a fraud and sham.

After all, if you are healthy you are healthy ~ and subjecting you to extensive testing and evaluation doesn't change that, nor do they find anything about which you should be concerned.

Knowing that the doctors are simply reporting the obvious ~ quit treating healthy people who are overweight or who smoke. There's nothing to be gained until they actually get sick.

9 posted on 04/29/2012 7:20:19 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: jmcenanly
So what happens when everyone turns to healthy lifestyle living? Everyone quits smoking, loses weight to below BMI, stops drinking, drugging and promiscuous sex? Everyone drives at the speed limit? Stops engaging in dangerous hobbies?

Maybe the doctors will have to get a part-time job at Walmart or McDonald's to help keep the lifestyles they have become accustomed to.

10 posted on 04/29/2012 7:23:08 AM PDT by 3catsanadog (Scats for Newt!)
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To: John W

This is why I have never told any of my doctors that I am a smoker. It will come to this.


11 posted on 04/29/2012 7:25:12 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: John W
Lucky to be British in a post Christian land. Have the Doctors given any thought to what will happen to them when they grow old?
12 posted on 04/29/2012 7:26:25 AM PDT by Hans
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To: Gay State Conservative
I could possibly support disincentives for smokers regarding health care (higher health insurance premiums,for example) and might support similar disincentives for people who are obese without a good excuse (disabilities that make exercise difficult or impossible,for example) but denying care is crazy.BEYOND crazy!

. Pretty much what I believe. I'm sick and tired of paying higher insurance premiums to fatties who eat themselves into the ground. I have a client, 51-52 years old who needs a hip transplant because he weighs 325+ lbs and he wore out his hips.

Smokers and obese are the 2 highest drivers of our out of control health care cost. Record Type 2 diabetes, joint problems, HBP, sleep apnea, om and on related to obesity.

I don't want the gov't to get involved but the private sector to clamp down with these people with incentives to control their diet and weight.

13 posted on 04/29/2012 7:27:01 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Smokers cost the medical industry less than nonsmokers. They don’t live as long.


14 posted on 04/29/2012 7:27:07 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: The Working Man
Interesting... Perhaps the Police and Firefighters and other professionals should decide to withhold their services from these “doctors”.

Love it.

Along with a whole lot of other 'obese' people the doctors might need service from.

15 posted on 04/29/2012 7:27:46 AM PDT by TribalPrincess2U (Anyone not wanting an ID or purple thumb to vote isn't worthy of voting privilege.)
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To: John W

Since I am a fat smoker the doctor will just have to kill me.


16 posted on 04/29/2012 7:28:19 AM PDT by Hans
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To: John W

This is euthanasia by omission rather than commission.


17 posted on 04/29/2012 7:29:10 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: John W; Eric Blair 2084; CSM; Mears; Madame Dufarge; metesky; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; ...

‘Nuff said.......


18 posted on 04/29/2012 7:29:42 AM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: trailhkr1
I'm sick and tired of paying higher insurance premiums to fatties who eat themselves into the ground.

Maybe you should learn how to properly route payments and pay the premiums to your insurance provider instead.

19 posted on 04/29/2012 7:31:11 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: muawiyah
Actually there are substantive studies out there that prove little or no advantage to 'preventative care' ~ it's a fraud and sham.

No, it is not. Every insurance carrier out there have been pushing for preventive care for at least the last 10 years. I work for a Fort500 company and the health insurance carrier is constantly sending us mailers at home to remind us to go in for physicals and such.

20 posted on 04/29/2012 7:32:18 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: Principled

They don’t mean early care by doctors, they mean early care for yourself. They ( doctors) don’t think that people who smoke or are obese, deserve to live.

Some insurance doesn’t cover it anyway. A friend of mine was denied coverage for knee surgery because she is obese.


21 posted on 04/29/2012 7:35:10 AM PDT by Eva
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To: John W
I like it! Now, do away with all taxes on tobacco so the product is affordable. Then let the smoker bank the savings, put it in his/her own medical savings account and pay for their own smoker related health care.

Oh, I know, no one would do that. They would spend the savings on donuts.

Sorry, I lost my head for a moment.

22 posted on 04/29/2012 7:35:21 AM PDT by mosaicwolf (Strength and Honor)
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To: John W

In the U.K., smokers and the obese pay taxes at the same rate as everybody else to support the NHS. If they were not taxed, they would use those moneys to fund their own treatment for conditions they had imposed upon themselves. How fair is it then, for the government to take their money and deny them treatment?


23 posted on 04/29/2012 7:36:14 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: wolfman23601
Smokers cost the medical industry less than nonsmokers. They don’t live as long.

While that might be true in some cases it almost certainly isn't in other cases.My parents are a great example.Both were major league smokers.My Mom died,at 52,of lung cancer.She spent some time in hospitals but not nearly as much as many do today (there was a lot less they could do for you back then).My Dad,OTOH,developed COPD (smoker's lung disease) and,for the last 15-20 years of his life,was in and out of hospitals regularly.IOW,I think the "system" saved $$$ in my mother's case but most certainly did *not* in my father's case.

24 posted on 04/29/2012 7:39:22 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
In the U.K., smokers and the obese pay taxes at the same rate as everybody else to support the NHS. If they were not taxed, they would use those moneys to fund their own treatment for conditions they had imposed upon themselves. How fair is it then, for the government to take their money and deny them treatment?

Isn't that at the heart of the matter? First, convince people that everyone should pay equally for health care. Next, decide that certain people are less deserving of health care than others. Would such a scenario happen if the burden of paying for health care were shifted back to the individual instead of the collective?

25 posted on 04/29/2012 7:41:40 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: trailhkr1

The ambitions of the insurance companies have NOTHING to do with health. They are looking at risk management ~ they pass through any additional costs to the insured parties ~ but the insurance company minimizes its own risk even if they don’t minimize your own.


26 posted on 04/29/2012 7:42:00 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

ok i’m just pointing out hypocrisy... ;)


27 posted on 04/29/2012 7:42:09 AM PDT by Principled
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To: Gay State Conservative

54% of the doctors in this poll would simply tell them tough, go away and die, when they first presented with a smoking related illness. Even given everything folks say and think regarding behavior that leads to poor health, that poll result scares me somewhat. We’ve come a long way and unfortunately it seems to be the way of the culture of death.


28 posted on 04/29/2012 7:44:30 AM PDT by John W (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: Eva
Some insurance doesn’t cover it anyway. A friend of mine was denied coverage for knee surgery because she is obese.

There is something she is not telling you. More likely she did not make an effort to lose weight and was denied over concerns from her doctor.

A guy at the gym was obese and they required he lose 90 lbs before they did the transplant because if he was the same weight he would not be able to do the grueling rehab that is required for the transplants to be successful.

29 posted on 04/29/2012 7:45:06 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: John W

Kill everyone over 22.

The biggest fear the liberals have is that there are/will-be too many people on the earth. They want only 30 million people on this planet. That’s why gun control is so important to them. They want to control who the guns get pointed at. They want to determine who gets to live. Yes, they are that heinous.


30 posted on 04/29/2012 7:45:08 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: muawiyah

Continue to believe what you want. Preventive care works. Every doctor will tell you so.


31 posted on 04/29/2012 7:49:47 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: trailhkr1

No they don’t. They used to.


32 posted on 04/29/2012 7:53:18 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: 3catsanadog

People still won’t live any longer. The opportunities for coroners will continue to be optimal.


33 posted on 04/29/2012 7:55:32 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: John W
LOL
Smokers are the ones paying very high taxes. Have you seen the price of cigarettes lately?
The mob has gotten into the cigarette business now. 90% of the cost is TAX.
Seriously if everybody quit our taxes would go through the roof.
As for fatties. . . . They don't pay; well maybe they do. They eat 3 cheeseburgers and pay the extra tax on the 2.
34 posted on 04/29/2012 7:58:12 AM PDT by DeaconRed (Cold War Veteran. . . . US Army Security Agency 1964-1968- I have now gone pecan.)
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To: John W

This is where we are heading and it makes perfect logical sense.

If I’m paying for someone else’s health insurance, I’m not going to pay for someone drinking, smoking, being fat, engaging in risky sex, riding motorcycles, hang-gliding, etc. (the list is endless).


35 posted on 04/29/2012 8:01:55 AM PDT by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: John W

This is where we are heading and it makes perfect logical sense.

If I’m paying for someone else’s health insurance, I’m not going to pay for someone drinking, smoking, being fat, engaging in risky sex, riding motorcycles, hang-gliding, etc. (the list is endless).


36 posted on 04/29/2012 8:02:08 AM PDT by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: John W

This is where we are heading and it makes perfect logical sense.

If I’m paying for someone else’s health insurance, I’m not going to pay for someone drinking, smoking, being fat, engaging in risky sex, riding motorcycles, hang-gliding, etc. (the list is endless).


37 posted on 04/29/2012 8:02:14 AM PDT by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: trailhkr1

No, she has made efforts to lose the weight, including recording every bite that she eats. The doctors have decided that her problem is hormonal. She is actually fairly active, as well. She runs a small farm with cows and goats. The county gave her too much trouble over the pigs, but she used to raise them, too.

The insurance representative told her that even if it was a heart attack, they would not cover it, if the doctor attributed the heart attack to her weight.

The insurance was union insurance. Her husband is a member of the electrical workers union.


38 posted on 04/29/2012 8:22:38 AM PDT by Eva
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To: trailhkr1; Gabz; John W
Don't forget marathoners, they spend a lot of time at the doctor's office. I'm sick of paying for them.

But just as at the 2008 and 2009 Chicago Marathons, Frighetto was unable to finish because of injury.

Frighetto, a self-described former couch potato, said that since she first decided to run a marathon in late 2006, she has seen doctors for a stress fracture in her foot, plantar fasciitis and iliotibial band syndrome. The activity that promised to make her healthier was actually increasing the frequency of her doctor visits, a fact that makes amateur athletes like her a problematic group of people for health insurance companies to insure. And as more and more people become marathoners — the 2011 Boston Marathon sold out in eight hours — distance runners are becoming a hard group to ignore.

“Insurance companies love runners because they’re healthy people... But, he added, because they train so hard, they have injuries and accidents that can sometimes make them difficult to insure.

. Distance running, in particular, has a documented history of injury: a 2007 study published in The British Journal of Sports Medicine found rates of injury to the lower extremities were as high as 79 percent in long-distance runners.

Distance Runners Are a Paradox for Insurers

39 posted on 04/29/2012 8:23:41 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: John W

The survey...found that 593, or 54 percent, of the 1,096 doctors who participated answered yes to this question: “Should the NHS be allowed to refuse non-emergency treatments to patients unless they lose weight or stop smoking?”

54% is a pretty high rate of moronic incompetence to have in a healthcare system.


40 posted on 04/29/2012 8:34:56 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Burning the Quran is a waste of perfectly good fire.)
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To: John W
To be fair and things change but my insurance ten years ago didn't discriminate on smoking or obesity but did on pwc riding, bungee jumping and several other dangerous activities.
41 posted on 04/29/2012 8:40:30 AM PDT by goosie
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To: John W
...deny non-emergency medical services to smokers and the obese...

Being a gay male is worse for heath than either of the above... I assume they're going to deny non-emergency medical services for gay men next, right?

42 posted on 04/29/2012 9:27:47 AM PDT by GOPJ (Obama's father, grandfather and great-grandfather were polygamists.-ALL,including Obama ate dogs!!)
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To: John W

As I understand it, the biggest problem for the NHS is cost. OK, here’s how you fix it. When the patient-to-be comes to the clinic or hospital for any reason, give them a cyanide capsule and send them away. When it gets bad enough, they’ll take it and the health problem goes away.

Now, having saved money on treatments, we can save further by laying off surplus staff. [If you have decreased numbers of patients, you don’t need staff.] When the staff protests, give them a cyanide capsule and tell them they have no benefits. The only down side is the government may have a shortage of pills for awhile — until demand and supply catch up.


43 posted on 04/29/2012 9:39:50 AM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: John W

This logic would extend to the denial of emergency and critical care as well. There would be where the real savings would be. Perhaps, since the majority of our illnesses are the result of either careless exposure to sick people, lifestyle or old age (to which there is no cure), we can just do away with health care entirely and save a whole boatload of cash.


44 posted on 04/29/2012 9:55:55 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: tbw2

Long ago I was in a class where the distinction was made between active and passive euthanasia.
It was euthanasia and (sounded like)athanasia????

I was awake for the whole class?


45 posted on 04/29/2012 9:56:29 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Less people smoke now than ever and health costs have never been higher. I know there are tons of other variables, but there is no evidence smokers cost the system. 30 years ago it seemed everyone smoked and my medical insurance was probably 10% of what it is now, adjusted for inflation. Targeting smokers is just using a scapegoat to distract from the real problems. I have been smoking for 20 years and I have been to the doctor a total of one time in the last 6 years and that was because I got the flu, unrelated to smoking... and that visit was paid out of pocket toward my $3,000 deductable.


46 posted on 04/29/2012 9:57:02 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: John W

Then they should not have to pay taxes for the NHS, right?


47 posted on 04/29/2012 10:31:18 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: John W

Discrimination. Some habits have more civil rights than others. Why not deny treatment for Sexually Transmitted Diseases TOO????


48 posted on 04/29/2012 12:17:11 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: wolfman23601; Gabz

I’ve been smoking for 60 years and here I am.

What a world !


49 posted on 04/29/2012 7:44:02 PM PDT by Mears (Alcohol. Tobacco. Firearms. What's not to like?)
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To: John W; Eric Blair 2084; SheLion; Gabz; Hank Kerchief; 383rr; libertarian27; traviskicks; ...
Of course, these nitwits would never try to help obese people lose the wheat and lose the weight. I've lost the wheat, and I've lost 15 pounds so far!

Wheat Belly

Nanny State PING!

50 posted on 04/29/2012 8:32:32 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Occupy DC General Assembly: We are Marxist tools. WE ARE MARXIST TOOLS!)
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