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What the Secret Service Could Learn from Drunken Sailors (The Curse of the Unpaid Prostitute)
The Washington Post ^ | April 26 | Roberto Loiederman

Posted on 04/29/2012 4:56:52 PM PDT by DogByte6RER

What the Secret Service could learn from drunken sailors

Photobucket

Roberto Loiederman, a merchant seaman from 1966 to 1974, is a writer in California. He co-authored “The Eagle Mutiny,” an account of the 1970 mutiny on a U.S. vessel.

What happened in Cartagena, Colombia, with the Secret Service seems unsavory to me, but not for the reasons you might think.

I make no judgments about men spending a night with escorts. As far as I’m concerned, those who take a holier-than-thou attitude about this are like Inspector Renault in “Casablanca” when he says he’s “shocked, shocked” to discover there is gambling at Rick’s Cafe . . . just before someone hands him his winnings.

No, what the Secret Service agents apparently did seems unsavory because of my own experiences.

More than 40 years ago, I was a merchant seaman. Whenever our ship would get to port — any port — we’d hurry to an area near the docks filled with bars and women. Valparaiso or Santos, Pusan or Saigon, Djibouti or Cartagena — the only changes, from port to port, were the local women’s ethnicity and language.

As a seaman, what other options do you have? You’re in a strange city for a few days. You’re with other hardworking, hard-playing guys. And you’ve got cash in your pocket. So you go to a bar, drink more than you should, smile at the women buzzing around, maybe dance with one and then — for a pre-arranged fee — take her to a hotel room.

I imagine the Secret Service agents in the scandal du jour went through similar steps. Of course, the current situation is different from what I remember.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: callgirl; cartagena; colombia; colombianhookers; curse; drunkensailors; entourage; feds; junket; mariner; obamascrew; prostitution; sailors; seaman; secretservice; sexforsecrets; usss; whitehouse
Woman who brought down Obama's Secret Service A gratuitous photo (from the New York Post) of the "call girl" who brought down the USSS agents.
1 posted on 04/29/2012 4:57:01 PM PDT by DogByte6RER
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To: DogByte6RER
I still find it hard to believe that the USSS agents are so stupid. I don't care about the sex for hire. I care about the breach in security. If I were a foreign intelligence agency, friend or foe, I would be working those bars and those girls. Those USSS agents would be easy targets. So easy in fact they wouldn't even know they were taken.
2 posted on 04/29/2012 5:09:44 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: DogByte6RER

The SS men were bush league in every sense of the word particularly at the clearance level that these “gentlemen” had. This speaks to the unprofussionalism rampant in the US Government at the present time.


3 posted on 04/29/2012 5:29:59 PM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: DogByte6RER

An attractive woman, to be sure, but I’m hard put to picture any “services” she might offer that would be worth $800. Just sayin’


4 posted on 04/29/2012 5:34:35 PM PDT by DrC
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To: Citizen Tom Paine

“This speaks to the unprofussionalism rampant in the US Government at the present time.”

The saying “fish rots from the head down” comes to mind...


5 posted on 04/29/2012 5:36:16 PM PDT by DrC
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To: DogByte6RER

I want everyone to know that I do not have much experience in hiring women for sex.
But to the best of my memory the subject woman always had the cash in her hand before the copulation began.

They must have changed the rules since I last talked to a friend who had committed such an act.


6 posted on 04/29/2012 5:41:05 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: DogByte6RER

I’m betting the agent that blew the lid off this by “balking” at the hotel for double occupancy was one of “Holder’s” agents. The claims by other hookers just doubled from there. This is when the U.S. govt. acts stupidly by throwing money hand over fist to everyone just to shut them up.


7 posted on 04/29/2012 5:44:32 PM PDT by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: DogByte6RER

Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.


8 posted on 04/29/2012 5:53:48 PM PDT by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: DogByte6RER
The whoring by the Secret Service is a metaphor for the entire Obama administration.

Obama is the Pimp in Chief.

*Food stamps in exchange for votes.

*Solydnra loan guarantees in exchange for donations.

*Stimulus cash to unions in exchange for support.

*Reduced student loans in exchange for college support.

*Free contraception for everyone on demand.


9 posted on 04/29/2012 6:06:01 PM PDT by garjog
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To: garjog

Fake photo! Moose-chelle has fried eggs, not boobs! As for the young woman in question, if you didn’t know her profession, how many of us would consider taking her to dinner? For that matter, many of us would take her to dinner anyway!


10 posted on 04/29/2012 6:19:35 PM PDT by WellyP (REAL)
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To: DrC

I believe if you factor in the effects of alcohol, it’s not too difficult to imagine how the events may have unfolded.


11 posted on 04/29/2012 6:41:07 PM PDT by Red Dog #1
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To: DogByte6RER
Ummm...she's not exactly innocent but not exactly guilty either. My verdict...naughty!
12 posted on 04/29/2012 6:42:37 PM PDT by Red Dog #1
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To: DogByte6RER
i guess nobody ever told them you aren't paying a prostitute for sex, you are paying them to go away quietly when it's done...
13 posted on 04/29/2012 7:07:05 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: DogByte6RER

It’s always one clueless dude that spoils everything that you could get away with. Seen it so many times since high school.


14 posted on 04/29/2012 7:11:14 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Chgogal

Exactly!!!!


15 posted on 04/29/2012 7:13:03 PM PDT by punditwannabe
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To: DogByte6RER

Aye-Aye up she rises early in the mornin.....


16 posted on 04/29/2012 7:18:32 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Chgogal
I still find it hard to believe that the USSS agents are so stupid.

I was in the military, I saw plenty of things the Soviets and others tried. I also had to deal with service members who found themselves in trouble involving a prostitute. I don't find it hard to believe at all.

I don't care about the sex for hire. I care about the breach in security. If I were a foreign intelligence agency, friend or foe, I would be working those bars and those girls.

What do you think the Soviets were doing during the Cold War? Targeting US military and State Department personnel, among many other Americans. They did so with very beautiful women. Every now and then somebody would get caught, but many either did not get caught, or were caught and things were kept secret for obvious reasons.

We'd like to believe that everybody that serves their country is an upstanding choir boy, but choir boys don't always make the best of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines, and in this case Secret Service personnel.

I think most of the people feigning outrage over this are just doing it because they don't like Obama and not because they are surprised by this. There are probably some who have never been stationed overseas or been in or around intelligence operations or don't realize that there are a lot of men out there that don't have any qualms about purchasing the services of prostitutes or that prostitutes maybe spies, and they may in fact be genuinely shocked. But most of us know otherwise.

Unless you put some kind of chastity belt on every service member and Secret Service agent, this will happen again. And again. And again.
17 posted on 04/29/2012 7:28:16 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: DogByte6RER

SS men are college graduates? You mean Ivy League for what is essentially no different than a bar bouncer gig? What a waste of education.


18 posted on 04/29/2012 7:31:28 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: DogByte6RER; Revolting cat!

All this talk of whores and drunken sailors made me think this article was going to be about Congress, lobbyists, and the Federal budget.


19 posted on 04/29/2012 7:38:13 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Barack Obama continued to sponsor Jeremiah Wright after he said "G.D. AMERIKKA!"Where's the outrage?)
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To: Nifster
Secret Service Agents Took 20 Women To Colombian Hotel, Says Senator ...
Tuesday, April 17, 2012
Nifster to BluH2o

**********************************************************

You may know Marines. You may have the same slimy morals as the alley cats that roam the garbage filled streets of any give port. But you do NOT know ‘the breed’. In fact you would never qualify to be part of the breed.

What say ye now a**hole?

20 posted on 04/29/2012 7:40:21 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: af_vet_rr

Being in the USN gave a lot of exposure to that environment...

LOL...just ask any 6th Fleet sailor who visited Naples in the last 40 years about Humpty Dumpty!

And yes. If I were attempting to get classified info from military people, I would target them from a sexual angle.


21 posted on 04/29/2012 7:51:47 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: a fool in paradise

It has nothing to do with the prostitutes or being drunk——it is the ‘HONOR’ of representing the USA in a foreign land as part of the Presidential Detail (regardless of who is the President as any given time)-—they ‘disgraced’ the HONOR of my Nation

WW2 vet


22 posted on 04/29/2012 7:57:24 PM PDT by cmomm44
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To: af_vet_rr
Duh, that's why you don't hire your ordinary Joe. The USSS are supposed to be better and smarter than your average Joes. Are you telling me that there are only Dumb Dicks available for those Secret Service positions?

And what do you think I was referring to,? Of course I was referring to Honey Traps. Again DUH!!!! Anyone can figure THAT out. The security breach could be severe. It's a bloody no brainer. This wouldn't have been as bad if this happened AFTER the visit. But before.? WTF! Even after the visit, information would have been garnered that was sensitive for future visits. But before the visit, the USSS is begging for trouble. And if something happened to Obama, dammit, we would be stuck with a Marxist Martyr on our hands for generations to come. God Damn the Secret Service for hiring Dumb Dicks.

You Dumb Dicks out there, you really piss me off.

If you can't handle a God Damned Honey then quit the job. NOW the Secret Service is handing out “Enhanced Rules”!!! Are you kidding me?

WTF, are we running here, kindergartens?

23 posted on 04/29/2012 7:59:39 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: cmomm44
Yes they did. And this president disgraces this nation every month. Has he ever said a favorable word about this nation while on foreign soil?

It seemed to me that his speeches always talked down this country, with the possible exception of a phrase such as "but all of that's changed now that I'm King, President.

It's taken this bit of whoremongering for the Bill Clinton legacy to weigh a bit heavier in the public's minds.

24 posted on 04/29/2012 8:03:30 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Barack Obama continued to sponsor Jeremiah Wright after he said "G.D. AMERIKKA!"Where's the outrage?)
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To: Chgogal

So you been in China, but you ain’t been to Carolina?

Alger Hiss was not an SS man. Neither were the Rosenbergs. Do we get it? SS men are meant to be stupid jocks. They don’t know no secrets.


25 posted on 04/29/2012 8:04:40 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: garjog
LOL!!!!

You made my day. This USSS thingie gets me going. Your post saved me about a $400/hr analyst visit. ; )

Yes, I am joking about the $400 analyst visit. Really I am. ; )

26 posted on 04/29/2012 8:13:46 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: Chgogal
"they wouldn't even know they were taken. "

They didnt.

27 posted on 04/29/2012 8:14:39 PM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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To: Revolting cat!
Yes, for some reason it was easier for me to get to China than the beautiful Carolinas! Can you believe that?

I'm ticked off with the USSS because if anything happens to Obama we have a Martyred Marxist on our hands. It was bad enough with JFK. Can you imagine a Martyred Obama? It was unthinkable a month ago, but now?????

28 posted on 04/29/2012 8:21:06 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: Chgogal

I got you you, yes! But whatever happens we won’t be able to stop the renaming of what’s left of Jefferson High Schools, streets and public squares.


29 posted on 04/29/2012 8:23:24 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Delta 21
I am thinking that BUT I don't want to admit it. GRRRRR.......
30 posted on 04/29/2012 8:23:45 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: rlmorel
LOL...just ask any 6th Fleet sailor who visited Naples in the last 40 years about Humpty Dumpty!

Er, you might want to make that 50 or 60 years shipmate,my first Med cruise was in 1960 and she was well-known then!

Of course I've always suspected it was a franchise over the years.

31 posted on 04/29/2012 8:24:13 PM PDT by oldsalt (There's no such thing as a free lunch.)
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To: af_vet_rr
There are probably some who have never been stationed overseas or been in or around intelligence operations or don't realize that there are a lot of men out there that don't have any qualms about purchasing the services of prostitutes or that prostitutes maybe spies, and they may in fact be genuinely shocked. But most of us know otherwise.

The problem isn't that the security guys like hookers, its that they hired them while on a mission. Even the bouncer at a strip joint knows not to fool around while on duty. If the same Secret Service team decided to stay a couple of days on vacation after the mission was over and have at it with the local girls nobody would care.

32 posted on 04/29/2012 8:25:26 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: Chgogal
Duh, that's why you don't hire your ordinary Joe. The USSS are supposed to be better and smarter than your average Joes. Are you telling me that there are only Dumb Dicks available for those Secret Service positions?

I have seen many supposedly bright men and women in and out of the military throw their careers away over the years in the pursuit of the opposite sex (and a few on the same sex). Men with PhDs, men with stars on their shoulder or who were on their way to having stars on their shoulders, men and women who were on their way to really big things. Their lives and careers were derailed by prostitutes, affairs with co-workers, affairs with co-workers' spouses, spurned spouses, you name it, I've seen it.

Some had their transgressions make it into the media because of who they were, but most didn't. Some were actually allowed to retire, some were demoted, some booted out, some did jail time.

You Dumb Dicks out there, you really piss me off.

If you can't handle a God Damned Honey then quit the job.


It's admirable that you feel that we should only have 100% morally upright folks serving in the military and Secret Service, but I'm going to burst your bubble and tell you to find the largest military bases in your state. Now visit the areas around them. In most places, you'll find pawnshops, bars, and strip clubs. You'll find a lot of of them, especially around the larger bases. And many of those strip clubs are nothing more than thinly-veiled covers for prostitution.

If you want to go on some kind of moral crusade/witch hunt, I suggest you start out by trying to ban strip clubs and bars around the military bases in your state. From there, start working on the neighboring states.

Keep us updated on your progress. If you spend the next several years working really hard on this project, I imagine you might even get one or two closed down.
33 posted on 04/29/2012 8:40:40 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: DogByte6RER

Animal House frat boys protecting the POTUS.

Damn right you need chaperones or wardens or guards.

Maybe the federal government should provide the women. Then the fees would be settled in advance. Cleaner all the way around. Call it the FBP.

Federal Bureau of Pu$$y.


34 posted on 04/29/2012 8:43:59 PM PDT by Calamari (Pass enough laws and everyone is guilty of something.)
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To: Calamari

35 posted on 04/29/2012 8:47:24 PM PDT by JediJones (From the makers of Romney, Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger 2016. Because the GOP can never go too far left.)
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To: oldsalt

She was working that same spot in the mid-late 70s.


36 posted on 04/29/2012 8:48:06 PM PDT by Ax
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To: freeandfreezing
The problem isn't that the security guys like hookers, its that they hired them while on a mission.

I agree with you, but I saw plenty of people throw their careers away on similar things. I saw it happen in Europe way too many times during the '70s and '80s. People who were given briefings explicitly stating that they might be targeted by the Soviets and a month later they are in deep trouble because they couldn't keep their pants on.

The ones that really pissed me off were the arrogant ones, the ones who felt they wouldn't get caught, that they were too smart to get caught, or that they were somehow above the rules, even though they knew there was a chance that somebody from our side might be keeping an eye on them.

To be honest though, the ones I hated were the ones who did it for money. Somebody who has had too much alcohol or some other drug that alters their personality, introduce a beautiful woman or a handsome man into the situation and a lot of otherwise moral types can find things spiraling out of control before they know it. It's no excuse, but most of us can see how it happens.

But the ones doing it for money. There was no excuse of "I was drunk and woke up in bed with $10,000 lying next to me".
37 posted on 04/29/2012 8:54:45 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: rlmorel; oldsalt
LOL...just ask any 6th Fleet sailor who visited Naples in the last 40 years about Humpty Dumpty!

Er, you might want to make that 50 or 60 years shipmate,my first Med cruise was in 1960 and she was well-known then!


If you're talking about the "lady" who went by that nickname, there was such a lady who hung out near a wall near the AFSOUTH base in the mid 1980s. While I never saw her, I heard a few stories that stuck with me and I have a strong suspicion that the nickname was handed down between generations, otherwise she would have been in her 60s or 70s around then.
38 posted on 04/29/2012 9:06:28 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr
“It's admirable that you feel that we should only have 100% morally upright folks serving in the military and Secret Service, but I'm going to burst your bubble and tell you to find the largest military bases in your state.”

I don't care what they do at home. I care what they do in theater. Get it? They, the USSS agents, may have been off duty but they were in theater. Their job requires them to minimize the risk to the POTUS not maximize it through dumb dick behavior. You don't need to be ivy league or just out of seminary school to do a good and honorable job. The USSS agents did a piss poor job. Any kindergarten graduate from the Chicago Public School System could figure that out.

I am beyond concerned. I am fearful for my country because some dumb dick doesn't know when and where to pull it out. In my book wholesome virginity is not a requirement, but it would be nice if they had some common sense and minimized the risk to the POTUS. Especially this particular POTUS. This country would suffer greatly if Obama became a Martyred Marxist because of some dumb dick breached security in a Honey Trap.

Burst my bubble....I'd love to give you a tour of Amsterdam's Red Light District. I even know where you can find a fascinating Asian with bright blue eyes. But this is not the time or place. ; )

39 posted on 04/29/2012 9:14:09 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: Venturer

It’s legal there. The price was negotiated, but he was an ass and did not pay. In the US she would have gone her pimp, not he cops. Then we would not be talking about arrests—but at least assault, and at most a killing.

I’ve never paid cash for sex, but even I know you don’t not pay a prostitute or you get your ass whooped.


40 posted on 04/29/2012 9:17:17 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (I just don't like anything about the President. And I don't think he's a nice guy.)
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To: Venturer

It’s legal there. The price was negotiated, but he was an ass and did not pay. In the US she would have gone her pimp, not he cops. Then we would not be talking about arrests—but at least assault, and at most a killing.

I’ve never paid cash for sex, but even I know you don’t skip out on a prostitute or you get your ass whooped.


41 posted on 04/29/2012 9:18:06 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (I just don't like anything about the President. And I don't think he's a nice guy.)
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To: Calamari

Thats why they call them “Hookers”


42 posted on 04/29/2012 9:34:14 PM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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To: BluH2o

you are really classy....


43 posted on 04/29/2012 9:45:53 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Vermont Lt
“I’ve never paid cash for sex, but even I know you don’t not pay a prostitute or you get your ass whooped.”

I hear there are some positions open at the USSS. You may qualify. You seem smarter and more honorable than the average USSS agent. ; )

44 posted on 04/29/2012 9:46:12 PM PDT by Chgogal (WSJ, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Rove et al., STFU. Thank you.)
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To: af_vet_rr; oldsalt

We all suspected that “Humpty Dumpty” was a conglomeration of persons, I think, how could it be otherwise?

The “Humpty Dumpty” I saw in the mid to late Seventies appeared to be a somewhat elderly woman with (I am told) no teeth, or at least ones that were removable...:)

I was shocked when I saw her, because she appeared to me to be an elderly person and rather disgusting in appearance, but I am sure to to a 20 year old sailor, a hard woman in her forties or fifties would have appeared much the same way.

Of course, there was “The Castle” that was also the focal point of people who seemed to revel in perversion.

I admit that I found the concepts of “The Castle” and “Humpty Dumpty” to be more a source of hilarity than disgust, I suppose due to all the stories of things that supposedly went on, rather than actual verifiable experiences!

But I did find out one thing as a sailor-there were people I worked with whose appetites for things like that were very, very different indeed from my own, much to my fascination, hilarity and revulsion in equal parts.


45 posted on 04/30/2012 5:25:32 AM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: rlmorel
Holy Cow! I had forgotten about Humpty Dumpty. I was in Naples in 1976.

Where there are men there will be prostitutes. The only reason women don't frequent male prostitutes is because there are many men willing to do it for free.

This reminds me of a joke. A little girl about 4 years old was taking a bath with her three year old brother. She started crying. Her mother asked her what was wrong. The little girl said she wanted a thingee-just like her little brother had. The mother just smiled and said,"Don't worry, with what you have you can get as many thingees as you want."

46 posted on 04/30/2012 6:32:09 PM PDT by fini
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To: fini
I was in Naples in 1976.
Where there are men there will be prostitutes.

As a Marine I had two 6 month Med deployments ... one in 1965 and again the following year. The ladies of the Med followed us from port to port ... even if we weren't customers we recognized them and knew many of them by name. Naples, Genoa, Barcelona, Izmir, and several other ports of call ... same women who would give us a smile and a wave, sometimes a hug of recognition. Once again, you didn't need to be a customer ... but, if you were, it helped with the recognition factor.

47 posted on 04/30/2012 6:56:31 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: fini
"...Don't worry, with what you have you can get as many thingees as you want..."

Ha. Ain't that just the truth...:)

I must say, I learned a lot about human nature in my four years in the USN. I met some very colorful people...one guy, who was as friendly as could be, was wire-thin from Mississippi, and had got himself a license to preach, which just completed the ensemble! He always had a big lip full of snuff and that tell-tale worn/faded circle on the back pocket of his dungarees where he carried the container.

He and a buddy of his would go out "hog huntin" to find the homeliest woman to bed. They carried a polaroid camera and would take pictures and come back and show us.

OMG. I couldn't believe it. I had traveled all the way around the world by the time I was 13, had lived in Subic Bay and seen Olongapo, so I didn't think I was a bumpkin, but I had never seen anything like those guys.

I did two Med tours in 1977 and 1978, and the North Atlantic tour in 1976.

I did have a funny experience in Naples once when I was on Shore Patrol.

IIRC, they made the alleys above Via Roma off limits sometime around the mid-seventies. We had to patrol up in that area to make sure nobody was trying to go in there.

One night when I was on Shore Patrol, me and a 1st Class named Cook who had the nickname "Cookieman" (Who also happened to be my boss and probably 20 years my senior) got chased by an irate transvestite with a knife...heheh, kind of looked like Alice Cooper with a big black raincoat, came stumbling towards us shouting something in Italian brandishing a knife above his head!

As I was standing there gaping at this sight, Cookieman turned and ran, so I turned and ran too. We ran for a block or two laughing as we ran, then stopped to catch our breath.

While we were standing there, Cookieman was bent over with his hands on his knees, panting, and looked at me with a big grin and said "She looked like Grandma but talked like Grandpa..."

I laugh at that to this day...

48 posted on 04/30/2012 7:49:24 PM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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