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Document links Warren to Cherokees (11th hour paperwork?)
Masslive.com ^ | May 1, 2012 | AP

Posted on 05/01/2012 7:35:50 AM PDT by libertarian27

Edited on 05/01/2012 7:38:26 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

BOSTON (AP) — A genealogist has uncovered evidence that Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren does have Native American heritage as she claims.


(Excerpt) Read more at masslive.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: brown; cherokee; elizabethwarren; greatgreatgreatgrand; massachusetts; moonbat; scottbrown; senate
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To: Jewbacca
I’m Native American, too, according to Romney.

Tribe of Levi.

HA! I was just going to post that I have NO, Native American blood in me, so does that exclude me from running for the Senate.

But all I have to say now, is You and Me Both Brother!

http://trollface.viralprints.com/system/photos/6001/large/1.png

41 posted on 05/01/2012 9:06:07 AM PDT by KC_Lion (A Romney victory means that the socialistsÂ’ takeover of both parties is now complete)
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To: libertarian27
" ... an 1894 document ..."

Did they use proportional fonts in 1894?

42 posted on 05/01/2012 9:13:42 AM PDT by eCSMaster (Conservative patriots, Rise up!)
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To: muawiyah
ALL the oldest colonial families have an Indian ancestor . . .

Interesting stuff. This and your post #38.

I'm not sure we can state with 100% certainty that ALL the oldest colonial families have an Indian ancestor because there is probably an exception somewhere.

It would certainly be accurate to state nearly all or the older the colonial family, then the greater the probability.

Due to the small size of the gene pool, there is a high probability that anyone who had ancestors in America before 1670 is related. For instance, my wife and I both are descendants of a Rev. John Crandall, an early Baptist minister in Rhode Island and contemporary of Roger Williams.

But there would still be exceptions to the 1670 rule. A handful of people imported brides from the old country to avoid intermarriage with either the Native Americans or their relatives already in America.

Post-1670, America became a place to expel undesireables such as debtors, paupers and petty criminals, so the gene pool greatly enlarged after that point.

43 posted on 05/01/2012 9:14:39 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: massgopguy
Well just darned.

Just spent a bit this morning reading about Napoleon Bonaparte and Josephine. Now that was a hoity toity bunch.

Both had American/Caribbean roots. Napoleon's baby daddy, who lied about the family genealogy to get him into military school, spent time in NY and PA back in the colonial period, and Josephine grew up in a sugar plantation.

These two had money or latched onto money, and because the two most famous people in Europe with American roots until Eisenhower and Wallace Simpson!

44 posted on 05/01/2012 9:14:55 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Vigilanteman
There was a flurry of settlement of the English "set aside' in the 1620s, and then the 30 years war interfered with doing much after that for a good long while.

There were a lot of guys and not many women. Most habitations were hardly fit for the most rugged ~ the death rate was incredible.

About the 1670s it became popular to send people to America ~ free rides!

45 posted on 05/01/2012 9:28:48 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Vigilanteman
Also, check out America 1676 ~ very interesting. One of the things that happened in Virginia to really screw up genealogists for all time was the great name change. All of the people involved in Bacon's Rebellion, which included about everybody in the colony, more or less changed their surnames to avoid prosecution ~ by either the new Crown government or elements of the older proprietorship government. One of the standard estimates is 24 out of 25 men changed their names!

George Washington's genealogy depends on men who probably changed their names.

46 posted on 05/01/2012 9:31:49 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Poser
I’m 100% native American. Honest. I was born in upstate New York!

I was born on a small island off the northeastern coast of the United States. My ancestors paid Granny Warren's ancestors 24 dollars for it.

47 posted on 05/01/2012 9:44:19 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Queeg Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)
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To: EDINVA
There are “genealogists” who can show any paying client to be descended from whomever they want. If I wanted to be a descendant of Mary Queen of Scots, voila, *some* genealogist would draw that line. This particular genealogist’s bona fides bear a look.


My father paid several Scottish (and state approved) genealogists in the 70’s to do family research from the original records.

After the internet (and the LDS church) put copies of the original documents on-line you can see a lot of “wishful thinking” in the reports he received.

48 posted on 05/01/2012 9:46:02 AM PDT by az_gila
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To: EDINVA; az_gila
If you really wanted to be related to Mary, Queen of Scots, as a distant cousin rather than a descendant, chances are pretty good that you could prove the connection if you can trace colonial ancestry to pre-1670 or so.

An interesting thing about almost all of the Puritan era genealogies (1620-1670 or thereabouts) is that they are only 4-5 generations away from the Plantagenet royal lines.

The Plantagenet dynasty, of course, fought the bloody War of the Roses over which branch would rule England only to yield to the equally dysfunctional and much shorter lived Tudor dynasty, when Henry VII was victorious at Bosworth Field.

The Plantagenet's had dropped scores of illegitimate children (along with a lesser number of the legitimate variety) into the bloodlines of British Isles, many of whom can trace their lineage back to the most reprehensible English monarchs like John I or Edward I, who were famed for spreading their seed about.

One of the few positive contributions of the Tudor line was to make appointments based on merit rather than lineage as the rival Plantagenet's greatly outnumbered the Tudors and generally did not get installed into positions of trust until after the reign of Elizabeth I, the last Tudor monarch.

While some of the Plantagenet line displayed loyalty to the House of Stuart, especially James I, who wanted to pacify and unify the country, a great many more rebelled against the excesses of Charles I and Archbishop Ladd, the first great wave emigrating to the new world as persecuted puritans in the 1620's and 1630's and the second after the restoration of the House of Stuart in the late 1650's thru 1670's, when the House of Stuart was finally booted out for good and the American colonies became as much a dumping ground for undesirables expelled from the old country as a destination for religious refugees.

49 posted on 05/01/2012 10:51:48 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: libertarian27

LOL! Of course! It’s in the same folder as Obama’s original birth certificate and college transcripts! And it only took four days to find, unlike Obama’s Selective Service Card or Harvard records, which remain lost after 30 years...


50 posted on 05/01/2012 11:10:06 AM PDT by pabianice (ame with)
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To: az_gila

If I were serious about genealogy I wouldn’t count on anything online or at LDS. Just in the USA mid-Atlantic states alone, some lines are hard to establish as the Union forces had no problem burning down courthouses that contained vital records. But we’re supposed to believe that we can trace back 500 years to some royalty? I prefer to say I come from a long line of Irish peasants.


51 posted on 05/01/2012 11:16:39 AM PDT by EDINVA
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To: libertarian27

Wanna make a fast buck, Ward Churchill wants that guys number.


52 posted on 05/01/2012 11:32:28 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: EDINVA
I do rely on the Scottish stuff from the LDS.

They sent missions to Scotland (in the 60’s, I believe) and they microfilmed all of the church records. It is copies of these records I am looking at, not some computer generated lists.

If you have a church location, Kirkoswald in my case, the birth and marriage records let you go back to the time when the Catholic records got destroyed. People were much less mobile then, so searching adjacent parishes usually will pick up a lost trail.

There is nothing better than looking at copies of the original hand written records.

53 posted on 05/01/2012 11:34:23 AM PDT by az_gila
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To: muawiyah

I knew personally Willard Stone a renowned Indian Artist of the Cherokee version. His son Jason took up dad’s mantle when Willard died.

He can not sell art as Indian Art, because Willard never had a roll number. I think this was something that the Clintons came up with to protect Indians.


54 posted on 05/01/2012 11:37:45 AM PDT by itsahoot (I will not vote for Romney period, and by election day you won't like him either.)
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To: Jewbacca
I’m Native American, too, according to Romney. Tribe of Levi.

Me too!! I'm feeling better and better each day about my native American Jewish tribal affiliations. I am qualified to run a casino and own a casino.

55 posted on 05/01/2012 11:39:05 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: blueunicorn6

You might want to put that load down and rest ~ this is going to take a while.


56 posted on 05/01/2012 12:16:23 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Vigilanteman
The very oldest extant European genealogies run back to the third century among the Welsh. The oldest date I've heard of was 245AD and there was a name associated with it.

There are some Scandinavian royal lists (not really genealogies) that run back to King Frosty ~ but there are, alas, several King Frostys.

Spanish Jewish genealogies, kept safely in Russia I understand, a full copy actually at University of Moscow, run back into the early Middle Ages. There's a university affiliated facility in Cincinnati that has a full copy of that material ~

The big problem is in America. This was an incredibly huge and empty place back in the day, and almost everyone was illiterate. Records weren't kept.

57 posted on 05/01/2012 12:26:43 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Granny Warren's ancestors were probably out in NW Mexico on their way to Cahokia and never got to Lon Giland in time for the sale.

One band of Chickasaw (related to the Cherokee) has a legend about letting the horse go and following him until he stopped.

That means they started moving after the Spanish had arrived with the horses to be followed.

So that journey probably started about 1550 ~

58 posted on 05/01/2012 12:29:53 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Lawn Guyland is the land to the east of my tiny native island.


59 posted on 05/01/2012 1:44:51 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Queeg Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)
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To: muawiyah
The big problem is in America. This was an incredibly huge and empty place back in the day, and almost everyone was illiterate. Records weren't kept.

Very true if you are talking about the post-1670 wave who were sent here as undesirable elements. Some of them, of course, were fortunate and ambitious enough to acquire skills, including skills at keeping records.

Many of this subset came as indentured servants and learned quickly to keep daily logs of work to prove when their term of servitude was up.

The early Puritans, however, were a highly educated lot relative to their day and quite meticulous in keeping records. So were the early residents of the Jamestown Colony, albeit to a somewhat lesser extent. Even during the "starving time" which nearly wiped out the colony by 1610, there are meticulous records as to how dwindling supplies were divided.

I don't think what you see in America is all that different from Europe. Depending on the region as well as the station of the people, record keeping ranges from the highly meticulous (England, Germany) to the nearly non-existent (southeastern Europe), with all shades in between.

Even with English ancestry, most records will tend to disappear around the 16th century unless ones ancestors were fortunate enough to have served in the clergy or civil service or link into royalty, even as bastard children. Many of these will likewise disappear about the time of the bubonic plague when mere survival took precedent over record keeping.

60 posted on 05/01/2012 1:50:52 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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