Posted on 05/01/2012 9:32:22 AM PDT by GregNH
Here's the deal...
Many legal analysts and scholars agree with this take-- and until the Supreme Court weighs in.. this is how the law is interpreted:
The Constitution requires that the president be a "natural born citizen," but does not define the term. That job is left to federal law, in 8 U.S. Code, Section 1401. All the law requires is that the mother be an American citizen who has lived in the U.S. for five years or more, at least two of those years after the age of 14. If the mother fits those criteria, the child is a U.S. citizen at birth, regardless of the father's nationality.
The brouhaha over President Obama's birth certificate -- has revealed a widespread ignorance of some of the basics of American citizenship. The Constitution, of course, requires that a president be a "natural born citizen," but the Founding Fathers did not define the term, and it appears few people know what it means.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I bet Bret wishes he didn’t post this come tomorrow. His email box will definitely be full.
And that law came about when?
He keeps referring to “Legal experts” but I don’t see him naming any.
We’ve got “legal experts” that have been quoted on FR and other conservative sites that say Bret just described a combination of native born citizen and naturalized citizens, but not natural born citizen, which was defined in at least one supreme court case to mean a citizen born in the land of citizen parents (plural).
I eagerly await Bret’s explanation on why it’s acceptable for the HOMOPOTUS to have more than one Social Security number...
Bret is the only newsperson who regularly reports on BC issues...Just the minimum facts, but he’s usually got them.
Just going to toss this out there. Could this be a prelude to getting the term explained by claiming ignorance as the excuse for not bringing this to light sooner?
Bret has just admitted and demonstrated his profound ignorance about the Constitution and the intent of those who wrote it.
And I note that not one single legal analyst, legal expert or scholar is mentioned by name.
From whom, exactly, are you getting your information, Bret?
??? That section is titled Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
Absolute amazingly dishonest propaganda to cover for the Usurper And Chief.
Obama is ineligible. Anyone with common sense knows this.
And what about Marco Rubio? Even by Brets literally made up definition, Rubio is NOT a Natural Born Citizen.
I'm completely losing faith in Fox News.
Either way, it seems to be coming to a head when something this important is finally being commented on.
This boil on the backside of America should have been lanced long ago.
Isn't there a problem with this statement?
Maybe they put him together out of leftover parts...
The rest of him is a construct.
Since everyone who was a citizen at the time of adoption is dead and likely to remain that way, we can remove the grandfather clause wording. We are left with “No Person except a natural born Citizen [...] shall be eligible to the Office of President;”
Why does the Constitution speak of “citizens” and separately of “natural born citizens”? It is a matter of allegiance.
A person can be a “citizen” if they were citizens or subjects in some other country first but have come here and met the naturalization requirements. Also, if one is the offspring of a citizen and a non-citizen, then one is a US citizen. However, in both these cases it can be argued that the person might choose allegiance to their former country or to the country of the foreign-born parent or at least the allegiance might be considered divided. It is this divided or alienated allegiance that the Constitutional provision is designed to prohibit.
If, however, both of one’s parents are themselves US citizens, then one is a “citizen” as well as a “natural born citizen”. The “natural born citizen” is one who at birth has no natural allegiance to any other country and the Framers felt could be trusted to be loyal to the US and not act as a foreign agent.
Note that native born is not the same as natural born. Native born simply refers to the place of one’s birth, i.e., one’s nativity. The term does not speak to the legal circumstances of a birth, merely to its location.
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:
That section is titled Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
No kidding, Sherlock. That section falls under the Title which is "Aliens and Nationality"!
“a combination of native born citizen and naturalized citizens”
Ah, the old “naturalized at birth” citizens. They frolic in the fields of Nowhereland with unicorns, leprechauns, and furry talking animals.
Good write-up found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause
Personally, it appears that over the centuries, efforts have been made to relax this clause. If I were asked my opinion (you may, or may not agree with it), I would say that a “Citizen” is anyone born of American Parents, or born in the territories of America. But a “Natural Born Citizen” is a child born with both parents being US Citizens, and is either born in the US territories, military bases or embassees.
There is only 1 office in the land that has the “Natural Born Citizen” clause, and I feel this clause should be tightened, nor relaxed. Not because I despise Obama - but because I feel it is the right thing to do; now and forever more.
“Isn’t there a problem with this statement?”
No, so far as I know, unless you take it to mean that’s the minimum standard for citizenship from birth. The minimum is, of course, much lower according to the 14th amendment.
FYI
I'M DONE WITH FOX NEWS.
There can be no explanation other than this is just blatant dishonesty. No mistakes have been made. This is intentional misleading of their audience.
I question the timing.
bookmark
Chester A Arthur’s Father was not an American citizen until he (Chester) was 14 years old.
John Fremont’s father was a French citizen when he (John) was born.
If the definition you hold to was enforced, Arthur would not have been eligible to be President and Fremont would not have been eligible to be the Republican candidate in 1856.
It’s been looked at before. Vattel’s definition was not explicitly spelled out in the Constitution, even though the Founder’s knew his works very well.
I think it is great timing. It will, if he follows up with this as he should, also eliminate the possibility of the GOP nominating an ineligible candidate.
“The term does not speak to the legal circumstances of a birth, merely to its location.”
Huh? How could the location you were born make you a citizen without “legal circumstances” coming into play? Law controls what country the location belongs to, as well as the legal status of your parents. You can’t very well be born a U.S. citizen without being born on U.S. territory and without either one or both of your parents being citizens or your parents being subject to the jurisdiction of U.S. law.
If you are a citizen, and there was no law that “naturalized” you, are you a natural born citizen?
Sounds like this section 1401 should have been called “Natural Born Citizen Defined” if it means what Bret is claiming.
ok it also applies if we are talking about a father.
Interesting that this comes out today. Last night I watched a piece Bret Baier did on Marco Rubio possibly being named vice president. At the end of the piece, he brought up a number of problems that could possibly hinder his candidacy such as Rubio’s problem with the party credit card, his friendship with someone currently under investigation, but notably, not one word on his Natural Born Citizen problem.
I guess Bret has heard from a few people about that situation already. I know Marco has.
It is quite obvious now why the republicans have refused to challenge Obama’s presidential qualifications. They have their own little candidates that they want to slip under the rug in order to bypass the Constitution. If they say anything about Obama, they will have to disqualify their candidates as well.
Neither of the parties is interested in upholding the Constitution any more. This saying could not be more true: I’ve not left the republican party. The republican party left me.
@http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8
USC : Title 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY
Can't you grasp that your link "8 USC Chapter 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY" falls under TITLE 8?
TITLE - Chapter - Section.
You, apparently, aren't that smart after all.
“It is a matter of allegiance”
What lies behind this simple statement settling the issue for certain minds is the entire madness of the style of Constitutional construction known as “original intent.” You divine that they were interested in preventing all but those with birth allegiance from being president, and therefore conclude no one with possible dual loyalties can possibly be president.
It matters not what they intended, but what they say. What they intended can help elucidate what they said, but it cannot add to it. The Constitution does not say “No person except those born without possible loyalties to other nations shall be eligible to be President.” That’s what you think it says, or want it to say, based on your pinpointing the allegiance motivation. However, just because they were motivated by concerns over allegiance does not mean native borns aren’t also natural borns. Especially since the 14th amendment came so long after the Founder generation.
One is a "native" of the place where one's "nativity", i.e., one's birth, occurred. Of course, in most cases that makes one a citizen of that place, although I dispute this interpretation for so-called "anchor babies". So, I grant your point that "native" is freighted with legal considerations and I could have worded that differently. My point, however, is that there is a persistent tendency to confuse "natural born" and "native born". They are not the same. I also believe that there is a calculated effort to propagate this confusion as a way to "prepare the ground" should it ever come to the Supreme Court.
Yeah, that would account for the ears.
When this was orginally discussed SADO, because of her age, did NOT meet the criteria to pass on citizenship. Am thinking that the phrasiology may have been manipulated here. IT needs to be checked out and if it’s been manipulated it should be call out, sent to Brent Bozall etc.
You're right that the entire thing is titled "Aliens and Nationality." But the section at hand talks about who's a citizen at birth. Regardless of whether you think being a citizen at birth makes you a natural born citizen or not, clearly someone who's a citizen at birth was never an alien. So no, you don't have to be an alien first for the section to apply.
There is that.
There is that.
There is that.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/chapter-12
TITLE - Chapter - Section
And you're going to argue with me about it. AMAZING!
When the 3G network hangs, pushing “post” a couple of extra times doesn’t help the situation. Sorry y’all.
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